Shaky penmanship

[GoVanGogh]

I was wondering: WWYD at this point?

Vision therapy (against DH's wishes)

Occupational therapy

Penmanship camp at a center an hour away

Give up

Edited September 5, 2012 by Suzanne
Spam-ish reply freaked me out about having too much personal info on web

[mumto2]

A good friend is an occupational therapist and former home ed mom. She specializes in working with children. The last time we talked about it she liked HWT best for handwriting. Not sure if this helps at all but I wanted to bump you.

[Momof3littles]

I would pursue an OT eval. A thorough eval should be able to tease out where the handwriting issues are coming from (is it more a visual thing vs. a fine motor thing, or something else entirely. Sometimes fine motor issues also stem from larger muscle weakness, like weakness in the core/shoulder girdle, hypotonia, etc. Without that stability in the bigger muscles, it is tough to control the fine motor muscles). I personally would rather get a diagnosis and have someone with experience take a look vs. continuing to try to treat the issue without knowing the cause.

 

If the OT sees concerns that could be medically related and diagnosable, he/she may recommend seeing a specialist.

[GoVanGogh]

The last time we talked about it she liked HWT best for handwriting.

We have used HWT. Twice. :tongue_smilie: Thanks for the bump!

 

I would pursue an OT eval. A thorough eval should be able to tease out where the handwriting issues are coming from (is it more a visual thing vs. a fine motor thing, or something else entirely. Sometimes fine motor issues also stem from larger muscle weakness, like weakness in the core/shoulder girdle, hypotonia, etc. Without that stability in the bigger muscles, it is tough to control the fine motor muscles). I personally would rather get a diagnosis and have someone with experience take a look vs. continuing to try to treat the issue without knowing the cause.

 

If the OT sees concerns that could be medically related and diagnosable, he/she may recommend seeing a specialist.

Thank you for the input. OT is what I am leaning toward, so it was good to read your reasoning because I didn't quite know why I was thinking that route sounded best. I just feel like I am banging my head against a wall and not getting anywhere with this. I know DS is very frustrated by it, though I try not to harp on him too much.

[PeterPan]

Well if it's a VISION problem, OT can *sometimes* attack it by working on vision from the other end, the OT end of the stick. However to pay for an OT eval for actual handwriting when there's no fine motor or other indication, that's weird. And it's only *occasionally* that you'll find an OT who's good with vision. For the most part, if it's a VISION problem, you need to go to someone who does vision. And yes, what you're describing sounds like vision.

 

You know, I would compromise here. There's nothing that says he needs vision therapy. You just go in and get the *evaluation*. Decide on therapy after you see what you see there.

[Guest Nan Jay Barchowsky]

May I suggest that you look at http://www.fixitwrite.com It is designed for young and older adults, right or left-handed. There is a downloadable version, Chicken Scratch Begone. It has received great praise, and should be a worthwhile investment for your child—certainly far less that what has already been spent! Your emoticon expressed displeasure with Handwriting Without Tears. This is a very different approach.

 

Wishing you success!

Nan

[GoVanGogh]

I edited my OP to remove the personal info. I saved it and will PM with board members.

 

Well if it's a VISION problem, OT can *sometimes* attack it by working on vision from the other end, the OT end of the stick. However to pay for an OT eval for actual handwriting when there's no fine motor or other indication, that's weird. And it's only *occasionally* that you'll find an OT who's good with vision. For the most part, if it's a VISION problem, you need to go to someone who does vision. And yes, what you're describing sounds like vision.

 

You know, I would compromise here. There's nothing that says he needs vision therapy. You just go in and get the *evaluation*. Decide on therapy after you see what you see there.

 

This is where I get confused about what to do - how to know vision vs. occupational?

The alignment issues make me think vision. The shakiness makes me think OT. :confused:

 

I was researching more this weekend and found a penmanship remediation place by our house. (I knew of one an hour away, but didn't know we had a clinic so close.)

I think it may be time to have someone else work with him, as he takes any comments from DH or me about his penmanship as a personal attack.

[Momof3littles]

I edited my OP to remove the personal info. I saved it and will PM with board members.

 

This is where I get confused about what to do - how to know vision vs. occupational?

The alignment issues make me think vision. The shakiness makes me think OT. :confused:

 

I was researching more this weekend and found a penmanship remediation place by our house. (I knew of one an hour away, but didn't know we had a clinic so close.)

I think it may be time to have someone else work with him, as he takes any comments from DH or me about his penmanship as a personal attack.

 

OTs do work with vision in some capacity, particularly visual-spatial perception, visual-motor integration, etc.

http://www.sensorysystemsclinic.com/Sensory%20Integration%20Vocabulary.htm

 

That doesn't mean that is his issue, but OTs most definitely do work on some aspects of vision and how it integrates with other aspects of coordination/motor planning, fine motor skills, etc. I would get an eval and see if they think it is visual, fine motor, or outside of their scope. If it doesn't feel right, move on or simultaneously pursue the vision thing specifically. I would call around to pedi OT places and ask what therapist(s) they have on staff that have experience with what could be vision and or fine motor issues related to handwriting. There are some that are going to have more extensive experience in that realm.

 

Does he shake at other times other than when he's engaging in handwriting?

Edited September 5, 2012 by Momof3littles

[PeterPan]

OT would work on the part she could work on for vision (things that stemmed from vestibular, etc.), but she referred off to a developmental optometrist for the rest. Not saying not to do OT but saying I would *also* get the proper vision eval.

[GoVanGogh]

Does he shake at other times other than when he's engaging in handwriting?

Not that we have noticed. But I do think he tends to 'fumble' with his hands more than some kids. (Ex: Changing out batteries in a camera, pushing buttons on controls, etc.)

But he is left-handed so I don't know... I am not around many left-handed children to compare. My in-laws are all left-handed and one of them is painful to watch, as she does everything 'club-fisted.'

 

OTs do work with vision in some capacity, particularly visual-spatial perception, visual-motor integration, etc.

http://www.sensorysystemsclinic.com/...Vocabulary.htm

That was an interesting site. DS was dx with sensory issues when he was younger, so I was familiar with many of the issues. At the time of the dx, we were told they didn't recommend therapy. (He scored 'elevated' across the board with all senses, but not high enough to warrant therapy. But they - assessment team - commented many times that they hadn't seen a child that scored elevated on all senses, as most peak with one or two senses.) Don't know if that affects current issues. I have too many things I'm am trying to sort through.

[GoVanGogh]

Update:

I called our pediatrician's office yesterday and talked with the nurse for quite a while. She said ped can do an evaluation in his office to help direct us - OT, vision, ADD, etc. I did ask ped about this last year during well-child visit and he basically punted the issue to our eye doctor... But insurance will pay for the visit and evaluation at his office so I figure I might as well start there. We have an appointment Monday.

 

Now I'm really nervous and feel like our schooling/parenting will be under exam. :001_huh:

[PeterPan]

They'll probably have you fill out an executive function survey, since they said they could "check for ADD". Some peds will diagnose ADHD from that. (just to prepare you for the shock) You would then want the referral to a neuropsych. Vision, well a ped isn't going to be testing for vision the way a developmental optometrist would, so I wouldn't put much stock in that. OT, the ped can see low muscle tone, yes.

 

Hopefully it opens some doors for you and doesn't leave you more confused. :)

[GoVanGogh]

Update:

It was a totally wasted appointment.

Nurse told me on the phone all this stuff doctor would check for.

Doctor checked son's reflexes, told me his penmanship wasn't all that bad, dx DS with dysgraphia and told us to see an OT if I wanted.

No chance of the appointment confusing me, it just irked me. :glare:

[CatholicMom]

I'm curious as to what your son's handwriting looks like. :001_smile: How old is he?

 

My son (9) has formed some bad handwriting habits that still frustrate me (starting letters at the bottom) and has a hard time printing small. He still makes huge letters that are spaced apart more than I think they should be, but just hoping it corrects itself with practice. Would love to compare.

[GoVanGogh]

Tara, He is almost 11.

 

May I suggest that you look at http://www.fixitwrite.com It is designed for young and older adults, right or left-handed. There is a downloadable version, Chicken Scratch Begone. It has received great praise, and should be a worthwhile investment for your child—certainly far less that what has already been spent! Your emoticon expressed displeasure with Handwriting Without Tears. This is a very different approach.

 

Wishing you success!

Nan

Okay, so I was a bit freaked out that you would join The Hive to post a reply. (Not to mention that it is probably against forum rules?)

But since you did...

I have looked at your program for several years now and decided to go ahead and buy it this week.

The "and one and two" stroke move (think it is on page 15?) --- A few pages later you say to make sure it doesn't look like tents.

So what does it mean when the down stroke has jags and the tops do look like tents. (Picture it looking like a snake run over by a car... All squished and jagged.)

He says he can't make them rounded. He is using a mechanical pencil and not breaking the lead, so I have a hard time believing his grip is too tight or he is pushing too hard.

He seems so stiff in the shoulder, but what to do to loosen him up? He is otherwise a floppy, wiggly mess of boy energy.

 

We do have a 2-hour OT evaluation set up for later this month.

[PeterPan]

Suzanne, that's good that you're getting an OT eval. When you say he's "floppy," it may turn out he's low tone (low muscle tone). That can have all sorts of consequences, and it's the type of thing an OT can help you sort out. It affects core strength (whether they slouch over the paper), how they weight shift, the finger strength, shoulder strength, all sorts of stuff. And the OT can give you exercises for it. And the eyes, which of course are controlled by muscles, can have issues.

 

I have Barchowsky's Fix it write btw. I decided we're going to do some other things first before we try it. Right now we're doing HeatherMonster's metronome protocol. I'm doing metronome along with auditory working memory, because it seems that's part of the issue too (handling distractions while doing motor planning).

 

Hopefully your OT eval is helpful. For us it was. The OT was floozy, but she did help us make a lot of connections. Dd was 11 at the time too. :)

[gevs4him]

Suzanne,

 

A good OT can make all the difference in the world. Ds 9 was DX with low muscle tone and an issue with crossing mid-line - by looking at him you would have never guessed it, but he had so much trouble with handwriting. It would take him 2 1/2 hours to write 10 sentences and that was him hard at it. They worked on his core, hand, pincher grip and crossing the mid line 5 months for 1 hour a week and then we did and still do home exercises. Wow it made such a big difference he can now write 10 sentence in less than 10 minutes and without his hand hurting him :)

 

Pray your OT visit will go well.

[PeterPan]

Suzanne,

 

A good OT can make all the difference in the world. Ds 9 was DX with low muscle tone and an issue with crossing mid-line - by looking at him you would have never guessed it, but he had so much trouble with handwriting. It would take him 2 1/2 hours to write 10 sentences and that was him hard at it. They worked on his core, hand, pincher grip and crossing the mid line 5 months for 1 hour a week and then we did and still do home exercises. Wow it made such a big difference he can now write 10 sentence in less than 10 minutes and without his hand hurting him :)

 

Pray your OT visit will go well.

 

So what are the home exercises you're doing? Wanna share? We did OT for a number of months and it definitely helped the hand pain, etc. It started creeping back, so we're back at it doing things for fingers each day, etc. New ideas would be fun!

[GoVanGogh]

Had 2.5 hour OT evaluation this morning. :tongue_smilie:

We are starting OT next week, but the therapist is also sending a report to pediatrician as she thinks there is something more going on with his hand. :glare: She noticed two issues that I have been asking doctors about since DS was born. (He was premature due to major health complications.)

I am hesitant to say too much on-line right now but will answer PMs.

 

Edited to add: Therapist did say that DS absolutely does not have dysgraphia (which ped said he had) nor does he have ADD (which is why we pulled him from preschool many years ago, teacher was insistent that he had.)

Edited September 28, 2012 by Suzanne

[Momof3littles]

Sent you a PM.

[PeterPan]

Had 2.5 hour OT evaluation this morning. :tongue_smilie:

We are starting OT next week, but the therapist is also sending a report to pediatrician as she thinks there is something more going on with his hand. :glare: She noticed two issues that I have been asking doctors about since DS was born. (He was premature due to major health complications.)

I am hesitant to say too much on-line right now but will answer PMs.

 

Edited to add: Therapist did say that DS absolutely does not have dysgraphia (which ped said he had) nor does he have ADD (which is why we pulled him from preschool many years ago, teacher was insistent that he had.)

 

Well good for you! Glad you're getting some ANSWERS. Just goes to show why it's important to get evals and not just shoot in the dark. You could buy program after program and try all sorts of things and not even be on the right track. So whatever it is, I'm glad the OT feels she has found it and can give you some help! :)

[GoVanGogh]

Well good for you! Glad you're getting some ANSWERS. Just goes to show why it's important to get evals and not just shoot in the dark. You could buy program after program and try all sorts of things and not even be on the right track. So whatever it is, I'm glad the OT feels she has found it and can give you some help! :)

Thank you.

Re: The bold part. Yes!

It is frustrating, because she is looking at his birth and an on-going symptom that we have had so many doctors brush off over the years. :glare: But, if she is correct, there was no way in the world I could ever have fixed or overcome it. I was looking around a lot of the issues. Ex: I was focused on his pencil grip, as that is mentioned so much with poor penmanship. I knew his shoulder area was very stiff. His grip is fine, but he is bracing his wrist/palm hard into the table, which makes his shoulder look stiff. I have never noticed that until she pointed it out this morning. :tongue_smilie:

DS is left-handed, DH and I are not. My in-laws are the most awkward left-handed people I know, so I think I try to brush a lot of stuff off as "Well, he's a lefty."

All of the doctors who have examined DS over the years have spent less than 10 minutes with him at a time. She spent 2.5 hours with him, watching him write, play, do detailed hand/finger activities, at rest, etc., and thinks that he is actually hiding the real symptom by keeping his hand in constant motion. So what people see and say, "Oh, that's ADD," is really probably masking the real issue. :banghead: