If You Were A Christian And Now You're Not...

[Ipsey]

Same here. I always doubted my childhood faith, even before I was exposed to hypocrites and religious zealots that turned me off to church. My reasons for not being a Christian are not because of Christians, but because I just don't believe that anyone knows the "right" answer to god or salvation.

 

It's so interesting to me. Though I was doing my best to "help" our children believe in Jesus--singing hymns at home, Bible study as part of school, family devotionals, not to mention Church, AWANAS, etc. I will never forget the relief on my daughter's face when I told her her Daddy and I didn't believe anymore and that we weren't going to church.

 

She was upset for a while, and scared her friends would be mad at her. . . and then she said, "I'm so glad I can stop. I never really believed this stuff."

 

And I don't think she was saying it just to say it, or because her father and I no longer believed--she had always been the ambivalent one, the one poring over her NIV children's Bible since she was 7 and trying to work it out.

 

I'm rather impressed at children who can stand strong in the face of some rather strong indoctrination. My daughter's a toughie :)

[delaney]

Thanks Heather.

 

We really do need to go shoe shopping soon. I'd fly on over on my invisi-stealth broom, but it's in the shop at the moment and I'm short on newt eyes to pay for the repairs.

 

And, sorry I didn't get back to this thread earlier, but I was putting the finishing touches on our first quarter of lesson plans. It would have taken less time, but I spilled a batch of troll defense potion on it.

 

No worries, though. I bought another goat and made more.

 

I knew you had a broom and could go stealth.

 

Here's what I am having for dessert tonight!

[FairyMom]

Thanks Heather.

 

We really do need to go shoe shopping soon. I'd fly on over on my invisi-stealth broom, but it's in the shop at the moment and I'm short on newt eyes to pay for the repairs.

 

And, sorry I didn't get back to this thread earlier, but I was putting the finishing touches on our first quarter of lesson plans. It would have taken less time, but I spilled a batch of troll defense potion on it.

 

No worries, though. I bought another goat and made more.

 

 

:lol::lol: Missed your wit, though. It is much more entertaining. Thanks for the troll defense potion. :D

[FairyMom]

It's so interesting to me. Though I was doing my best to "help" our children believe in Jesus--singing hymns at home, Bible study as part of school, family devotionals, not to mention Church, AWANAS, etc. I will never forget the relief on my daughter's face when I told her her Daddy and I didn't believe anymore and that we weren't going to church.

 

She was upset for a while, and scared her friends would be mad at her. . . and then she said, "I'm so glad I can stop. I never really believed this stuff."

 

And I don't think she was saying it just to say it, or because her father and I no longer believed--she had always been the ambivalent one, the one poring over her NIV children's Bible since she was 7 and trying to work it out.

 

I'm rather impressed at children who can stand strong in the face of some rather strong indoctrination. My daughter's a toughie :)

 

Aww... she is a toughie. :)

[FairyMom]

I knew you had a broom and could go stealth.

 

Here's what I am having for dessert tonight!

 

Love this!! :D:D

[FairyMom]

I'm sure you didn't mean this to be insulting, but I'm insulted. You make it sound as though it's something I've just casually decided. It's not. How do you know I haven't read, thought or struggled with it? I have, and for me, it's not something I believe in. I don't appreciate being told that I've made my decision lightly and that I need to take more care. I don't appreciate being told I need to investigate. I don't see where I have to give a legitimate reason as to why I don't believe. I have plenty of them, but I don't have to share them. If you want to believe that Jesus is the son of God, go right ahead. I don't mind, but don't try to tell me that I'm wrong in my way of thinking. Perhaps many people simply say something doesn't ring true to them without expanding because they don't feel like getting a lecture on how they are clearly wrong.

I don't think the stakes are huge because I don't believe. Guess what? I'm not the only one. Roughly 70% of the world is not Christian are we all bound for h*ll and d*amnation? Seriously? This is one of the many, many things that turn me off to Christianity. Who are you (general you) to decide whose religion is true? If there is such a thing as a merciful God (which again, I don't believe), then why would he condemn a person who has lived a decent, moral life to eternal d*mnation, and yet give the murder/child rapist/what have you a place in his kingdom simply because they decided to "repent?" It absolutely makes no sense. You can be a good, descent, loving person, but if you don't "come into the fold" that's just too bad for you, but go out and commit all the heinous crimes you want and then say you believe and all is forgiven? I can't get behind that.

 

I could have gone on for a very long time as to why I don't believe, but I tried to keep it simple.

 

:iagree:

 

It took me years and years of trying to believe before I just realized the truth. Eternal da*nation is a big stick to wave around and try to scare people with.

[SailorMom]

I always just laugh at people who think I brushed Christianity off lightly. It took years and years of seeking and reading, talking to pastors, reading Strobel (gag), reading CS Lewis (him I like). I started at about the age of 10 and didn't really come to where I am now until I was about 30.

 

As for risking hell, Pascal's Wager is not a good reason to believe in a religion; and anyway - if you don't believe hell exists, I fail to see the problem.

 

I will never chose my faith based on fear.

[Audrey]

Search for Wicca on google. It will tell you more about Audrey and her beliefs. It's very much not the pointy hats and brooms you may have in mind.

 

 

.

 

 

Just to clarify... I know I've said this before, and it's really not a big deal. I don't mind being called a Wiccan, but I'm not one. Wiccans believe in deities. I do not. I'm a plain old Witch -- specifically a Green Witch (hence the avatar, folks!). Not all Wiccans are Witches either. Some of them don't do witchcraft at all.

 

But... googling Wicca will get you a lot closer to an explanation of my spirituality than not.

 

Oh, and upthread someone suggested pm'ing me to ask about being a Witch. Umm... don't Elsie. Don't ever pm me. I am generally a very easy-going gal, but even I have my limits.

[suzybluecheese]

:iagree:

 

It took me years and years of trying to believe before I just realized the truth. Eternal da*nation is a big stick to wave around and try to scare people with.

 

Isn't that the truth!

[FairyMom]

I always just laugh at people who think I brushed Christianity off lightly. It took years and years of seeking and reading, talking to pastors, reading Strobel (gag), reading CS Lewis (him I like). I started at about the age of 10 and didn't really come to where I am now until I was about 30.

 

As for risking hell, Pascal's Wager is not a good reason to believe in a religion; and anyway - if you don't believe hell exists, I fail to see the problem.

 

I will never chose my faith based on fear.

 

:iagree:

[Mom in High Heels]

It's so interesting to me. Though I was doing my best to "help" our children believe in Jesus--singing hymns at home, Bible study as part of school, family devotionals, not to mention Church, AWANAS, etc. I will never forget the relief on my daughter's face when I told her her Daddy and I didn't believe anymore and that we weren't going to church.

 

She was upset for a while, and scared her friends would be mad at her. . . and then she said, "I'm so glad I can stop. I never really believed this stuff."

 

And I don't think she was saying it just to say it, or because her father and I no longer believed--she had always been the ambivalent one, the one poring over her NIV children's Bible since she was 7 and trying to work it out.

 

I'm rather impressed at children who can stand strong in the face of some rather strong indoctrination. My daughter's a toughie :)

 

Good for her for investigating on her own and thinking for herself.

James Bond and I don't discuss religion for the most part, but Indy is of course familiar with it all. My mother says stuff about it all time and he went to a Catholic K where he had to go to mass every week. One day in the car he told me he didn't believe the Bible was true. I asked him why and he said it just made no sense. Dinosaurs were real, so how could the earth have been made in 6 days with people put on it when people didn't live when the dinosaurs did. He said the stories were weird and sometimes scary and kind of "mean."

 

While JB and I do not believe, we have had both boys christened in the Catholic faith, because while we may not believe, they might grow up to and if that's their path, well, that's okay.

[Firefly]

I always just laugh at people who think I brushed Christianity off lightly. It took years and years of seeking and reading, talking to pastors, reading Strobel (gag), reading CS Lewis (him I like). I started at about the age of 10 and didn't really come to where I am now until I was about 30.

 

As for risking hell, Pascal's Wager is not a good reason to believe in a religion; and anyway - if you don't believe hell exists, I fail to see the problem.

 

I will never chose my faith based on fear.

 

:iagree: Exactly. Well said!

[Kathryn]

Just to clarify... I know I've said this before, and it's really not a big deal. I don't mind being called a Wiccan, but I'm not one. Wiccans believe in deities. I do not. I'm a plain old Witch -- specifically a Green Witch (hence the avatar, folks!). Not all Wiccans are Witches either. Some of them don't do witchcraft at all.

 

But... googling Wicca will get you a lot closer to an explanation of my spirituality than not.

 

Oh, and upthread someone suggested pm'ing me to ask about being a Witch. Umm... don't Elsie. Don't ever pm me. I am generally a very easy-going gal, but even I have my limits.

 

Audrey, may I ask you for a link that discusses your beliefs (or comes close) more specifically? I read an old thread where you did, but by the time I read it, the link was dead. Or just a "quick and dirty" explanation from you? I'm genuinely interested and haven't been able to puzzle it out myself.

[FairyMom]

Just to clarify... I know I've said this before, and it's really not a big deal. I don't mind being called a Wiccan, but I'm not one. Wiccans believe in deities. I do not. I'm a plain old Witch -- specifically a Green Witch (hence the avatar, folks!). Not all Wiccans are Witches either. Some of them don't do witchcraft at all.

 

But... googling Wicca will get you a lot closer to an explanation of my spirituality than not.

 

Oh, and upthread someone suggested pm'ing me to ask about being a Witch. Umm... don't Elsie. Don't ever pm me. I am generally a very easy-going gal, but even I have my limits.

 

:lol::lol: I don't think you have to worry about her sending you a pm.

 

Now I have to go Google "Green Witch." :)

[Dory]

Just to clarify... I know I've said this before, and it's really not a big deal. I don't mind being called a Wiccan, but I'm not one. Wiccans believe in deities. I do not. I'm a plain old Witch -- specifically a Green Witch (hence the avatar, folks!). Not all Wiccans are Witches either. Some of them don't do witchcraft at all.

 

But... googling Wicca will get you a lot closer to an explanation of my spirituality than not.

 

Oh, and upthread someone suggested pm'ing me to ask about being a Witch. Umm... don't Elsie. Don't ever pm me. I am generally a very easy-going gal, but even I have my limits.

 

 

Is a Green Witch and a Hedge Witch the same, or are they different?

[Mergath]

Just to clarify... I know I've said this before, and it's really not a big deal. I don't mind being called a Wiccan, but I'm not one. Wiccans believe in deities. I do not. I'm a plain old Witch -- specifically a Green Witch (hence the avatar, folks!). Not all Wiccans are Witches either. Some of them don't do witchcraft at all.

 

But... googling Wicca will get you a lot closer to an explanation of my spirituality than not.

 

Oh, and upthread someone suggested pm'ing me to ask about being a Witch. Umm... don't Elsie. Don't ever pm me. I am generally a very easy-going gal, but even I have my limits.

 

Let's not forget those of us that are theistic non-Wiccan Pagans. ;)

[Audrey]

That's sad, and I do know there are people (and entire parts of the country) who hold that type of belief. I guess I'm just lucky not to have been exposed to them very much.

 

I'm also fortunate not to have Christian relatives or neighbors who are so closed-minded. I can't say other Christians pushed me away from faith because most of the Christians I know are lovely people.

 

IRL, I can say the same thing. I live in an area with lots of Mennonites and Hutterites. There is a Hutterite colony very near our farm and I have a very good friend there. My dh's mother used to be the kindergarten teacher on that colony.

 

I find her faith beautiful -- and she's been through a tremendously difficult few years losing her son to a farming accident and then her husband to heart attack -- the way she weathers every storm is amazing. She loves me even though I'm a witch. She doesn't have a problem with it. I think it's because we have some very similar ideas on what constitutes goodness and rightness and a life well-lived. She has said to me (and I agree) that I would make a good Hutterite, if I could just get past all the praying and believing. (It's our little joke.)

 

Anyway... I also find the Mennonites very easy to get along with. As a group, they are generally very compassionate, socially minded and peace loving. We get along great.

[Mom in High Heels]

:lol::lol: I don't think you have to worry about her sending you a pm.

 

Now I have to go Google "Green Witch." :)

 

LOL, that's what I just did! I had no idea there was such a thing as a green witch.

Audrey, does Toyota make a Prius equivalent broom for you? ;)

[elegantlion]

I don't know where I am right now. I believe in God, not so much in religion. Ds and I finished Gilgamesh today. We're going to explore more comparisons of Utnapishtim and other ancient tales to Biblical stories.

 

My confusion, for lack of a better term, comes from the omission of stories like that and many other thing about the bible. that's not even accounting for the vast in fighting among denominations.

 

Ds and I exploring this journey together. Right now I can't go to a church, it would feel like a hypocritical thing to do. Ds could hone his debate skills, but he's in the searching phase too.

 

If things like evolution, ancient stories that match Bible stories etc, are not true then why not teach them too? Shouldn't a christian be informed and make a well reasoned decision? Decision about your eternity shouldn't be made from a position of ignorance on the whole of the discussion.

 

But I'm still in the midst of it all, not sure where I'll end up.

[catz]

Actually I think in the beginning there were quite a few responses that stated reasons for leaving Christianity that had nothing to do with Christians themselves. There are some Christians that turn me off, but they aren't the reason I don't believe. I don't believe because I simply can't. There are too many contradictions, too many things that ring false for me and too many things that I simply dislike. I don't believe Jesus was the son of an almighty deity and born of a virgin. I don't. I believe he was a real person who had a good, peaceful, loving message, but that's all. I don't believe he was divine.

 

:iagree: I don't think I made any comment about Christians in general either. I also read the bible cover to cover as an adult and many other traditions teachings, as well as The History of God (Armstrong),etc etc etc. It was a process that took a number of years for me as well, starting probably at age 10-12. It just doesn't ring true to me, given the historical context, the inconsistencies, etc. If it helps people find peace and live a more fulfilled and moral life, I have no problem with what others believe. I am very tolerant of others beliefs or lack thereof, and I think the world could be a better place if there was more tolerance.

 

These are the 7 principals of a UU church. This basis is working well for our family as a community ...

 

• The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
  
• Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
  
• Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
  
• A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
  
• The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
  
• The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
  
• Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
  

[Firefly]

Let's not forget those of us that are theistic non-Wiccan Pagans. ;)

 

Or us theistic non-Wiccan Pagan Witches. :D Guess we're as diverse a lot as anyone else.

[Audrey]

Is a Green Witch and a Hedge Witch the same, or are they different?

 

 

Pretty darn similar! :001_smile:

 

ETA: Except for me, you just need to take out any deistic references. I practice a purely Nature-based spirituality. No gods necessary. :)

Edited August 31, 2012 by Audrey

[Dory]

Pretty darn similar! :001_smile:

 

I went to an 'Energy Night' awhile back and there was a lady there who said she was a Hedge Witch. I wanted to know more, but I was never able to track her down after that. I enjoyed the feel of her if that makes any sense. I never really did any research after that, I tend to learn best in the early phases from talking and well, no one to talk to means I just leave it.

[Delirium]

Did this thread get back on track? I think it did so I'm replying like it did, even though I'm late to the party as usual.

 

I was raised in a Christian church and even voluntarily went to a Church of Christ throughout my junior high years. When I met The Spouse, I agreed to check out LDS and eventually became baptized and even sealed in the temple.

 

I honestly don't know where the break happened. Between the gossip, the using testimony to complain about others, the heartbreak I felt of seeing so many babies and pregnant women when I was hormonally raging on fertility drugs. I just couldn't take Church anymore. Slowly, piece by piece I lost my faith all together. Praying felt like a farce, I just couldn't believe that asking for a Higher Being to watch over my loved ones, or to help those in need was anything but silly. It's not that I think I'm smarter than those with faith, it just stopped working for me personally. The more questions I needed to be reconciled with my faith the less did. I really envy those that can peacefully have faith in their spirituality.

 

 

ETA: Religions in general still and probably always will fascinate me. The rituals and covenants and texts and commandments etc are very intriguing. I love learning about different beliefs.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Delirium

[FairyMom]

Pretty darn similar! :001_smile:

 

ETA: Except for me, you just need to take out any deistic references. I practice a purely Nature-based spirituality. No gods necessary. :)

 

Yet another thing I would LOVE you to blog about! Please!! :D

[FairyMom]

:iagree: I don't think I made any comment about Christians in general either. I also read the bible cover to cover as an adult and many other traditions teachings, as well as The History of God (Armstrong),etc etc etc. It was a process that took a number of years for me as well, starting probably at age 10-12. It just doesn't ring true to me, given the historical context, the inconsistencies, etc. If it helps people find peace and live a more fulfilled and moral life, I have no problem with what others believe. I am very tolerant of others beliefs or lack thereof, and I think the world could be a better place if there was more tolerance.

 

These are the 7 principals of a UU church. This basis is working well for our family as a community ...

 

 

• The inherent worth and dignity of every person;

• Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;

• Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;

• A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;

• The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;

• The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;

• Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

 

 

:iagree: :) Especially with the bolded.

 

ETA: I *do* have a problem with people not accepting that I have a right to my own spiritual beliefs or lack thereof. My truth may not be others' truth; that should be accepted.

Edited August 31, 2012 by FairyMom

[FairyMom]

Ok another thing at first I thought maybe I didn't believe in Christianity. That's all I knew. Then when I explored other religions that didn't work either. Really in the end I discovered I just don't believe there is a deity/creator/etc.

 

Me too. I delved into Tao, Buddha, and a variety of other "spiritual" paths. The only thing I have ever felt a true connection with is the Earth.

[Impish]

Just to clarify... I know I've said this before, and it's really not a big deal. I don't mind being called a Wiccan, but I'm not one. Wiccans believe in deities. I do not. I'm a plain old Witch -- specifically a Green Witch (hence the avatar, folks!). Not all Wiccans are Witches either. Some of them don't do witchcraft at all.

 

But... googling Wicca will get you a lot closer to an explanation of my spirituality than not.

 

Oh, and upthread someone suggested pm'ing me to ask about being a Witch. Umm... don't Elsie. Don't ever pm me. I am generally a very easy-going gal, but even I have my limits.

Whoops, sorry Aud. I brought up Wiccan = witch thing.

[swellmomma]

Let's not forget those of us that are theistic non-Wiccan Pagans. ;)

 

That's what I was before I became a Christian

[Galatea]

IMO it wasn't the "troll" who really ruined this thread, but the people who wouldn't just ignore it. And that is a total shame, because IMO we had a very insightful and informative discussion going on.

 

Can't the moderators just go in and delete everything that went off-track? Even the jokes? It's frustrating to have what was a serious and important (to many of us) discussion go off the rails and just keep getting pushed.

[Audrey]

Yet another thing I would LOVE you to blog about! Please!! :D

 

 

Oh, Cindie. You know I love you but.... I stopped blogging a long time ago for various reasons, but the biggest reason was because it was feeling like a chore. I just wasn't loving it anymore. I don't see myself getting back into it any time in the foreseeable future.

[Audrey]

Ok another thing at first I thought maybe I didn't believe in Christianity. That's all I knew. Then when I explored other religions that didn't work either. Really in the end I discovered I just don't believe there is a deity/creator/etc.

 

 

I went on that journey, too. I just couldn't reconcile with the deity clause, either.

[Lady Florida.]

I enjoyed the real discussion and the jokes in very different ways.

 

Even with the degeneration of the thread, I was still able to get a lot out of knowing I'm not alone in my experiences.

 

For what it's worth, I did too.

 

I have noticed that the vast majority of responses don't talk about how they came to the understanding that Christianity was not true for x, y, z, reasons. <snip> It is frustrating and sad that people often don't think clearly enough to consider the validity of a religion based on the claims IT makes, not the faithfulness of so-called members.

 

As you've seen by responses to your post, many of us did give reasons beyond "Other Christians drove me away". What makes you believe we didn't think clearly and consider the validity of the claims?

 

Point being, just because there is disagreement on something does in no way imply that the thing doesn't exist. There is in fact, evidence that dogs, even brown dogs, do exist. Your analogy doesn't work.

 

It is also clearly true that ALL of their claims are not true because we know by pure logic that a bunch of claims that contradict each other cannot be true at the same time. They can't all be true, but they can all be false.

 

 

Actually I think in the beginning there were quite a few responses that stated reasons for leaving Christianity that had nothing to do with Christians themselves. There are some Christians that turn me off, but they aren't the reason I don't believe. I don't believe because I simply can't. There are too many contradictions, too many things that ring false for me and too many things that I simply dislike. I don't believe Jesus was the son of an almighty deity and born of a virgin. I don't. I believe he was a real person who had a good, peaceful, loving message, but that's all. I don't believe he was divine.

 

:iagree:

 

I am not phased by the negative comments. I guess because this isn't a raw fresh feeling for me. I've beat this horse to death years ago. I've come to terms with it. So at this point there really is nothing I haven't heard before.

 

I do feel for those who feel raw and hurt about it.

 

I'm not hurt by them either. Usually I just brush them off, but I do try to correct misconceptions. I don't know why though. It's often fruitless. :banghead:

 

it was the theology that I saw as illogical; it also seemed as mythological as all other religions now and all throughout human history. I know that may sound offensive - but - I'm saying I don't think Christianity is true - so obviously I'm going to think it's a kind of mythology.... I think in the West, Christianity doesn't seem like those other religions because we're just used to it culturally.

Really - reading the history of Christianity itself, and learning about the religions that preceded it, was rather eye-opening as well.

 

This.

 

I don't think the stakes are huge because I don't believe.

 

Yep. I'm not afraid of something that I don't believe is real. I'm not afraid of ghosts. I'm not afraid of zombies. I'm not afraid of monsters. And I'm not afraid of hell.

 

It's so interesting to me. Though I was doing my best to "help" our children believe in Jesus--singing hymns at home, Bible study as part of school, family devotionals, not to mention Church, AWANAS, etc. I will never forget the relief on my daughter's face when I told her her Daddy and I didn't believe anymore and that we weren't going to church.

 

She was upset for a while, and scared her friends would be mad at her. . . and then she said, "I'm so glad I can stop. I never really believed this stuff."

 

And I don't think she was saying it just to say it, or because her father and I no longer believed--she had always been the ambivalent one, the one poring over her NIV children's Bible since she was 7 and trying to work it out.

 

I'm rather impressed at children who can stand strong in the face of some rather strong indoctrination. My daughter's a toughie :)

 

Sounds a lot like what went on with ds. I was trying to keep my questioning to myself, but found out that he never really bought it anyway. He was 8. Lucky him. He didn't have to wait until he was an adult to leave.

 

:iagree:

 

It took me years and years of trying to believe before I just realized the truth. Eternal da*nation is a big stick to wave around and try to scare people with.

 

And what they often don't realize is how it's not scary to those of us who don't believe it.

 

Ok another thing at first I thought maybe I didn't believe in Christianity. That's all I knew. Then when I explored other religions that didn't work either. Really in the end I discovered I just don't believe there is a deity/creator/etc.

 

That's what I did. I thought it was just Christianity and/or Abrahamic religion. I investigated various forms of Paganism, Eastern religions, and even New Age. Eventually I realized that I don't believe any of it.

 

Outside of trolls and proselytizers, I'm enjoying the conversation here.

[FairyMom]

Oh, Cindie. You know I love you but.... I stopped blogging a long time ago for various reasons, but the biggest reason was because it was feeling like a chore. I just wasn't loving it anymore. I don't see myself getting back into it any time in the foreseeable future.

 

I understand. I only blog about once a week myself now. The only reason I still do is because I have never scrapbooked and never will. I have a digital scrapbook, but it does feel like a chore sometimes.

 

I will do a Labor Day post ... hopefully Monday. This Union girl will be laboring on Labor Day. ;)

[regentrude]

I'm not afraid of something that I don't believe is real. I'm not afraid of ghosts. I'm not afraid of zombies. I'm not afraid of monsters. And I'm not afraid of hell.

 

...

And what they often don't realize is how it's not scary to those of us who don't believe it.

:iagree:

When my son was about 8, he was bullied on a playground by kids from a church group who threatened him that he would go to the devil because he did not believe in God.

His response: "I don't believe in the devil either."

[FairyMom]

 

 

Yep. I'm not afraid of something that I don't believe is real. I'm not afraid of ghosts. I'm not afraid of zombies. I'm not afraid of monsters. And I'm not afraid of hell.

 

And what they often don't realize is how it's not scary to those of us who don't believe it.

 

Outside of trolls and proselytizers, I'm enjoying the conversation here.

 

:iagree:

[Audrey]

I understand. I only blog about once a week myself now. The only reason I still do is because I have never scrapbooked and never will. I have a digital scrapbook, but it does feel like a chore sometimes.

 

I will do a Labor Day post ... hopefully Monday. This Union girl will be laboring on Labor Day. ;)

 

 

Loved your posts on Blair Mountain from last year! Which reminds me... I need to dig up my old VHS copy of "Matewan" for this weekend.

[FairyMom]

Loved your posts on Blair Mountain from last year! Which reminds me... I need to dig up my old VHS copy of "Matewan" for this weekend.

 

Thank you. I wonder if Matewan is on Netflix... what a great idea.

[Way2blessed]

Getting into this thread really late, but here's the short answer: I was an extremely devoted, Sunday Morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, daily bible reading Christian. My first doubts came when I realized everyone on Sunday Morning seemed so concerned for that one hour about eveyone else going to hell; but in that last two minute prayer, it seemed that everyone's thoughts turned to the roast at home in the crock pot.

My second doubts came when one of the leaders in the church was talking about some teenagers in the church who'd been misbehaving and he blamed it on parents too afraid to give them the good "butt-whipping they deserved". :blink:

The final straw was when our Sunday school topic was on how America was founded as a Christian nation. That got me researching and I read Thomas Paine's Age of Reason--big mistake.

I now just consider myself "spirtually messed-up". I still "talk to God" daily, because if it's not God, then it is just me talking to myself and I am not sure which one of those two options in crazier.

I also don't hold any animosity towards Christians, which IRL, seems to be the norm from those I know who've left the faith.

[kubiac]

I'm not sure I was ever properly Christian, but I come from a Methodist background and we went to a religious-based preschool and did choir and Sunday School for a while when I was young.

 

The irrationality of it all started me on the path of rejection (as mentioned upthread, the fantastical nature of many Biblical happenings rang false), and then I was further discouraged by what I'll call the provinciality of it. The universe appears to me to be vast and deep, and viewing it wholly or even partially through the lens of the experiences of a small group of people who lived a long time ago in a land far away seems terribly restrictive.

 

Additionally, I'm just naturally stubborn and difficult and fussy. You wouldn't necessarily see that upon first meeting me, but I have a strong childish streak that reveals itself as, "You're not the boss of me!" I remember very clearly attending church and being subject to a very angry, yelling sermon on the nature of faith and how you just have to jump and that's the point. My immediate and permanent reaction was "Oh yeah?! Just try and make me, buddy."

 

I see many positive attributes in religion and religious life, and the teachings of many charismatic leaders, but my overall loyalty lies on the side of "reason" (if we're just choosing between faith and reason), and I see absolutely no special magical properties to Christianity that would lead me to select that belief system as a guide for my life.

[Desert Rat]

Before I came to the Hive, I'd never heard of the Pearls or Ezzos.

 

I was happier in my ignorance.

 

Boy, that's no lie, Imp.

Other things I'd like to bleach from my brain (no offense to anyone who likes these things):

family cloth

domestic discipline.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Kalah

[Rai B.]

The reason that the actions of so-called Christians matters is stated in the Bible itself. Matthew 7:20 -- "By their fruits ye shall know them." If you read the whole chapter, it is all about recognizing who is of God and who is not. ….What many people are saying when they say that Christians turned them off of Christianity is that they judged the fruit of Christianity to be lacking. If the product of a religion is overwhelmed by hate and fear and self-righteousness and divisiveness, is it a good thing?

:iagree:

 

Yep. I'm not afraid of something that I don't believe is real. I'm not afraid of ghosts. I'm not afraid of zombies. I'm not afraid of monsters. And I'm not afraid of hell.

 

And what they often don't realize is how it's not scary to those of us who don't believe it.

When my son was about 8, he was bullied on a playground by kids from a church group who threatened him that he would go to the devil because he did not believe in God.

His response: "I don't believe in the devil either."

When dd was five, a little boy (who, as it happens, attends a church I attended as a kid) said that if she didn’t believe in God she would go to hell. Since she didn’t think hell was a real place she thought he was making up the God part too.

[FairyMom]

 

When dd was five, a little boy (who, as it happens, attends a church I attended as a kid) said that if she didn’t believe in God she would go to hell. Since she didn’t think hell was a real place she thought he was making up the God part too.

 

My cousin wrote me a letter when I was 10 saying the same thing. It was a Sunday school project. :glare:

[Rosie_0801]

thank for posting that:001_smile: Some times it is hard to express what you are looking for and this may help me wrap my head around my quest

 

It surely was an interesting read. It took some ideas I'd already been mulling over further than I would have taken them on their own. Alain de Botton's religion book might appeal too. I haven't read it, just listened to the podcast.

 

:)

Rosie

[2boysmom]

The way I see it, if God was small enough to be defined by a single book, he would have come on down and introduced himself in person. I figure all the world's religious texts are just glimpses into something far too complex and mysterious to be defined by human language.

 

 

I was commenting to the highlighted above. So, you're saying that what you said you don't actually believe? I'm confused.

 

That's why I commented that Jesus did "come down and introduce himself as a person". I was just commenting on your own words. So, forgive me if I came across as "ignorant":confused: Perhaps you should have made it more clear in your post.

[clarkacademy]

So, I am just wondering if you guys wuld move by me? Please? If you don't go to church and are not married people won't speak to you around here. Including mothers telling their kids at parks not to play with my kids because we are not members of their church :confused:

[Desert Rat]

So, I am just wondering if you guys wuld move by me? Please? If you don't go to church and are not married people won't speak to you around here. Including mothers telling their kids at parks not to play with my kids because we are not members of their church :confused:

 

Aw. I wish I did. See if you have a local Freethinkers homeschool group (or start one. They are getting more popular. The downside (for me) is that they are also mostly unschoolers. But, at least I have fun conversations that don't revolve around religion. And they went to bat for our little group at that last citywide roller skate day when all the played was Christian rock!

[Luanne]

... pardon me if I repeat something anyone else has said. I just wish the people who stopped being a Christian because of other Christians would realize that most likely the people they had trouble with aren't truly Christians, but merely people who think they are Christians. True Christians are loving, forgiving, and compassionate. I think this probably sums up my reason for being a Christian, but avoiding churches. Churches are organized religion and quite honestly there don't seem to be very many TRUE Christians attending church these days.

[OnTheBrink]

I only have 5 minutes before I have to go back to work, but something that has struck out at me from reading only the first 2 pages is the idea that there are "Christians" who try to win people over by promising that becoming a Christian makes your life a bed of rose petals. It doesn't. It never has, it never will. Jesus never claimed that following him would be a stroll in the park. Just the opposite, really. It makes me mad the Christian life has been misrepresented that way. It's a lie. Life happens. Rain falls on the just and the unjust. IME, Christianity has changed how I look at life and its experiences and how I react to those experiences. I'm far from perfect. FAR from it. I screw up all the time. Becoming a Christian didn't change consequences or trials or burdens. It doesn't mean your kids won't get sick, you won't overdraw your account, your car won't break down or your spouse won't be killed. I'm really sorry so many have been mislead to believe in some fairy-tale, unicorn and butterfly version of Christianity. It's easy to see how some would turn from such a false portrayal. I think if Christianity had been presented to me like that, I'd have walked away, too.

 

Conversely, it makes me mad to see people like the WBC call themselves Christians and yet behave the way they do. I think God must weep over them and the damage they do.

 

Anyway, I'm now 6 minutes past my dinner break, so that's all I have to say. I'm just sorry so many people have had a counterfeit Christianity presented to them.

[Mergath]

I was commenting to the highlighted above. So, you're saying that what you said you don't actually believe? I'm confused.

 

That's why I commented that Jesus did "come down and introduce himself as a person". I was just commenting on your own words. So, forgive me if I came across as "ignorant":confused: Perhaps you should have made it more clear in your post.

 

I did make it clear. You're choosing not to hear me.

 

I do not believe Jesus was the human incarnation of God. Therefore, God has not come down to interact with us.