When do your children start writing their own history narrations?

[Ellyndria]

So I was looking over the history section of TWTM again for info on when to start the transition to writing their own narrations, and for second grade it says to write half for him and have him write or copy the other half, moving to having them write the whole thing by the end of the year. That seems like a lot! Then in third it says the narrations should start to resemble one to two paragraph compositions, and in fourth, two to three paragraph compositions. I can't see any of this happening, and doesn't seem to line up with WWE expectations, which we are also doing, either.

 

DS (7.5 years, second grade, doing SOTW2, WWE2, and vehemently opposed to putting pencil to paper) does long history narrations now while I write them (though probably too long sometimes), and I can't see him writing the whole thing down for a long time. There was a Major Writing Freakout last week in regards to possibly writing his own history narrations in the future. (See my thread on the writing stations in AAS for details.)

 

I looked at the writing section in TWTM and it says to have them write down the first sentence of the narration in second grade, and finish the rest for them. This does seem more possible for second grade, if done through copyword or dictation. But when to move onto having them write more of it? I looked at the WWE text and it doesn't seem to have them fully writing their own narrations until the end of Year 4.

 

I am trying to figure out when, and how much, writing to introduce into the history narrations this year for my writing-hating DS (he says it takes too long), and whether it should be by copywork or dictation.

[DragonFaerie]

DS9, who just started 4th grade, writes one paragraph narrations (4-5 sentences). He was doing a paragraph at the end of last year, but not on a regular basis and not with any sort of organization to it. This year I have him using a graphic organizer first and then writing the paragraph after that. DD10, 5th, has moved to writing three-paragraph narrations, also with the help of a graphic organizers. I have just started emphasizing the narrations. We really didn't do them with any regularity before now.

[warneral]

DragonFairie what resource for graphic organizers do you use?

[ErinE]

My ds began copying sentences in second and he was writing one sentence from memory by the end. In third grade, I spent more time helping him shape his narrations into an organized paragraph, and he wrote 2-3 sentences by the end of the year. Now in fourth, his organization is better, he writes most of the paragraph, and my goal is to build up to multi-paragraph answers with a bit of style.

[DragonFaerie]

DragonFairie what resource for graphic organizers do you use?

 

I'm going to try to attach them here. Let's see if it works.

 

ETA: Well, the organizer for the 5-paragraph worked. I can't remember where I got the other one. Try Googling "hamburger paragraph organizer."

[warneral]

Thanks!

[warneral]

To the OP, remember that SWB doesn't specifically endorse AAS. In AAS 3 you are having your child write a lot of sentences. Therefore when we combine WTM and WWE and AAS, we need to keep in mind SWB goal is not to have 7,8, even 9 year old kid write 50 sentences per day. I would suggest these things as I do believe AAS is a great program. You may be already doing this but here goes:

 

SWB herself said that a child (especially boy) at his age can only be expected to physically be able to write 3-5 sentences per day. It was in a Q&A video on utube but I spent some time looking/listening but I didn't find the exact quote.

 

If you are having him do WWE narrations, just do that. If you want to do history narrations, drop the WWE narrations.

 

Slow down how many sentences you dictate from AAS each day or perhaps reduce how many you even do. Say 2 dictation sentences per day which could mean one step over several weeks. His fine motor skills are not at a place where he can keep up with AAS, so slow it down.

 

We do all AAS dictations on a big white board with dry erase boards which helped my 9yo ds last year to tolerate all of the writing(but he was 9). Mydd7 at the time, didn't ever complain about too much writing. Boys' fine motor coordination does not typically develop as quickly as girls'.

 

I really wish I could find where she mentioned that in her Q&A video, but it really helped me understand why my ds would complain so much about writing. Adjust the demands while his little body catches up to his mind :)

Edited August 31, 2012 by warneral

[warneral]

Oh! I googled my own post from last year to find the video. Definitely listen to this starting at 6:10 -->

[Goldilocks]

My children have been different.

My son didn't start writing them himself until 5th grade. (He copied what I wrote from his dictating to me in most of 4th)

 

My daughter started writing them herself in 3rd - but preferred to type them.

 

My 2nd grader has written one by himself this year because he asked. I am requiring him dictate his narration to me and then to copy one sentence.

[Ellyndria]

 

SWB herself said that a child (especially boy) at his age can only be expected to physically be able to write 3-5 sentences per day. It was in a Q&A video on utube but I spent some time looking/listening but I didn't find the exact quote.

 

If you are having him do WWE narrations, just do that. If you want to do history narrations, drop the WWE narrations.

 

I do think we are staying in that range most days. Some days it is only 1 or 2 sentences of copywork or narration. Days that we do AAS dictation it does add a few more, but we usually take one week (5 days) to do one step in AAS, and sometimes even 6 or 7 days, so it is spread out. I do think AAS has helped build up his stamina, and strangely enough he grumbles least about spelling, possibly because it's so routine?

 

I just want to point out that for the narrations in history and WWE, I am currently writing them all, except for Day 4 in WWE where it's a narration/dictation day, so I write his whole narration, and then dictate one of his sentences for him. I am just trying to figure out when I can add maybe a sentence of copywork or dictation to the history narrations. I don't see how WWE and SOTW can be too much narration when I'm doing the writing.

 

I can't imagine only ever writing the narrations from the WWE workbook and never writing SOTW narrations himself? (Not this year, but future years.)

 

His fine motor skills are not at a place where he can keep up with AAS, so slow it down.

 

We do all AAS dictations on a big white board with dry erase boards which helped my 9yo ds last year to tolerate all of the writing(but he was 9). Mydd7 at the time, didn't ever complain about too much writing. Boys' fine motor coordination does not typically develop as quickly as girls'.

 

I really wish I could find where she mentioned that in her Q&A video, but it really helped me understand why my ds would complain so much about writing. Adjust the demands while his little body catches up to his mind :)

 

I have seen many cautions about boys and fine motor skills on this board, so I understand, but I really do not think it is an issue of fine motor skills for him, since I have always tried to stay within the guidelines for boys. His have always been decent, he uses scissors any chance he gets, and never really had trouble learning to form letters. His has not complained about his hand hurting since kindergarten, as I have always been conscious about having a break after each time he has to write.

 

His issue is that any writing, even one sentence is *too much* because "it takes too long" according to him. In fact, he'd rather not do school at all, because it takes too long and he'd rather play. (It's at this point where I usually point out that if he went to a school building, he'd be there all day, and he should be happy it only takes a couple hours to do school here and has the rest of the time to play.)

 

Okay, this is long, but I am just trying to point out that I really am not trying to be an ogre about this writing thing. It's why I chose WWE, because I liked how they *didn't* have to write so much. I also do think writing words and sentences for spelling is important, because that's when a person needs spelling, when they have to write.

 

I also know that whenever we do move toward him writing part or all of his history narration, that it is going to be a struggle, no matter how old he is, because of his personality, not necessarily because of his fine motor skills.

 

That is why I am asking this question about the history narrations. I want to know what is appropriate for a second (or third, or fourth) grader, because I know that whenever this is introduced, no matter how old he is, he will resist. It's a personality thing. He does not like to work, he does not like to use his brain (he's said this several times), he HATES the words "practice" and "try" because he does not like to do either, he just wants to be able to do things without having to practice, thus he has a tendancy to just give up without even trying. He is also fiercely against growing up, and has been since the age of 2 when he could verbalize it, and more than once has wished he was still a toddler so he wouldn't have to do school. He hates being challenged.

[sagira]

That is why I am asking this question about the history narrations. I want to know what is appropriate for a second (or third, or fourth) grader, because I know that whenever this is introduced, no matter how old he is, he will resist. It's a personality thing. He does not like to work, he does not like to use his brain (he's said this several times), he HATES the words "practice" and "try" because he does not like to do either, he just wants to be able to do things without having to practice, thus he has a tendancy to just give up without even trying. He is also fiercely against growing up, and has been since the age of 2 when he could verbalize it, and more than once has wished he was still a toddler so he wouldn't have to do school. He hates being challenged.

 

He sounds a lot like my ds. Ds8 is still very much a kid, and his maturity level is closer to his sister's (5) than his peers. He does get along with everyone, though. He dislikes effort, but I'm using his generally cheerful attitude and love of reading to inspire him about admirable characters in his books, etc. We are also going to read Book of Virtues aloud this year, pointing out one relevant character trait at a time.

 

As for writing, I agree with SWB and CM that quality matters infinitely more than quantity. With that view, a workable blueprint for each child is going to be different. My goals for this year (he'll be 9 and in 4th):

 

-Keep taking dictation on his Literature, History, and Science narrations

-Have him copy 2 sentences from his narration into his copybook, Book of Centuries, or science notebook 4 times a week

-Copywork and sentence building in Killgallon once a week

-letters, copywork, dictation, grammar exercises in ILL 4 times a week

-1 activity daily in Galore Park Junior English Book 2 independently before formal school with me

-Penmanship, one page once or twice a week

-Dictation of Literature sentence once a week (Spelling)

-Free writing (at least one paragraph) once a week

-BFSU 2 science notebook writing (note taking, experiment observations) 3-4 times a week

Edited August 31, 2012 by sagira

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

DD 7 is doing all of the actual writing of her narrations now but only after she tells me what she wants to say and I write it out word for word, she then copies. Last year I did all the writing and she just narrated. Next year she will be responsible for writing it as she thinks of her narration. However, she is doing her own narrations completely by her self at the end of our science lesson(2weeks). I have her read a first science encyclopidia on the subject being studied and she is to write her narration...2-3 sentences...on what she remembers of the subject.