NASDAQ Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I agree. Teaching evolution ONLY is wrong. It's indoctrination. If it were not...Creation science would also be taught. There are many, many scientific (yes I did say that) findings that point toward an Intelligent Creator. Believe what you will. A belief in evolution and against a Creator has implications that reach far and wide. How about this for instance? If all life just "happened" to come into existence by some big bang then we really don't have any purpose here. Life has no meaning. Life has no purpose. We are born. We die. AND, inherent in the belief in evolution is the belief that one life is somehow more important than another. Evolution doesn't only have a detrimental effect on science education but on LIFE in general. Sue, the problem is that evolution isn't a single isolated theory but rather an underpinning of large parts of biology, earth science, and so on. If it's wrong, then huge parts of what we think we know about biology is also wrong, and that's a problem. It's not just a matter of presenting two theories and moving on. It isn't necessary for a religious person to be a strict creationist. All things happen because G-d willed them, or allowed them. That remains equally true whether what happened was a Big Bang or Adam and Eve in the garden (or both, or neither). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Wow. I don't believe I have ever SLAMMED another member on this board quite so boldly. I happen to respect the variety of opinions here. My anger in this thread is at those who are very boldly and unashamedly bashing those of us who believe in Creation. I believe I was being MATURE (look that one up) in wanting to know what it meant before going off on a post. But now that I know... I'm so glad we sicken you. And I is also verry hapy that I is not intellectual b/c I beleeve in God. Can you imagine a similar thread on this board? Imagine a thread where the Creationist Christians were boldly BASHING the atheists, evolutionists, Muslims or whatever group (b/c we are a very diverse group here). Yikes. I shudder to think where THAT one would go. But I'm guessing THIS is tolerated. :glare: Wow. Unbelievable. FWIW...Bill Nye can believe what he wants. I really couldn't care any less about his opinion of Creation science. What I do care about is that this board used to be a place where we could all debate in a mature and civilized way...w/out calling names. Sigh. I see. So threatening to "blast" me is ok but my pointing out that since you don't know what you are blasting, your post made little sense to me is immature. I think it's immature to be mad about something when you don't know what it is. But again, since most creationists don't actually understand the theory of evolution, I'm not shocked by your response. You cannot understand what you think is antithetical to your very existence. And what has happened to science, and is continuing to happen to science in this country DOES sicken me. I feel so much sympathy for children brought up this way becuase large blocks of the most interesting, intellectually stimulating and higher paying jobs will simply be out of bounds for them forever. I think it's criminal child abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollyOR Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I watched the interview he did on CBS This Morning and I'm under the impression that his timing is political. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauracolumbus Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Ah. I like the logic of "blasting" something when you don't know what it is. I believe you proved my point about a lack of intellectualism. Thank you! Ok, this was kind of mean. I was going to respond as well, but wasn't sure whether RR meant religious right b/c that is an incorrect use of the term, I believe. I think I would be classified as religious right in that I am a conservative and a Christian. But, I am a strong supporter of teaching evolution to children. I am conservative in that I am mostly socially conservative (strongly pro-life) and a Christian in that I am Catholic. I also believe in theistic evolution. There are more accurate terms to describe theistic non-evolutionary creationists. Laura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 It isn't necessary for a religious person to be a strict creationist. All things happen because G-d willed them, or allowed them. That remains equally true whether what happened was a Big Bang or Adam and Eve in the garden (or both, or neither). Exactly. We are theistic evolutionists. We teach our kids that evolutionary theory explains HOW God created us in the same way that the immune system shows HOW God heals us. The Bible tells us who, science tells us how. I am continually amazed and confused at the hostility toward evolution. God gave us the ability to learn and understand things so why reject that gift? Boggles my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue G in PA Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I I think it's criminal child abuse. I'm not really sure what to say to that except arrest me...and a planet full of people just like me. My "blasting" your comments (not you specifically btw) has everything to do with the insults that had already been posted and nothing to do with you or anyone else as individuals. I apologize if that was what was understood. Now, you all must excuse me while I go and plan my lesson on Creation for tomorrow's science class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) I watched the interview he did on CBS This Morning and I'm under the impression that his timing is political. Well, that's not very smart of him, because I believe a hebephilic Shinto would be more likely to be elected than a godless science freak (not that I'm calling B.O. a godless science freak, but if I were trying to support him publicly, this isn't the stuff I'd be tossing around). Edited August 31, 2012 by kalanamak spelling, darn it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 If he would really like to be relevant he might point out that we only have a teeny tiny percentage of public schools that teach anything like creationism, yet our national science scores are abysmal. As a nation, we are failing our children in science. YE Christians homeschool and send their children to private schools, for the most part, and they are a societal minority, anyway. So who is really to blame for the ignorance of our public-schooled children? Whose fault is it that millions of children attend public schools yet can't read, write, figure, or explain anything about science, history, or geography? Isn't it handy to blame this minority sect of Christians, even though they have had nearly zero influence in the public schools and have, by and large, removed their children from them? Recent efforts in LA and TX to convert public schools to a YEC perspective are worth commenting on. It's reasonable for a scientist to have an opinion on that, and it is imperative for parents and communities to be aware of those efforts. But they are recent, are they not? Or am I wrong about that? Has their been exclusive YEC teaching in LA long enough for the children raised under that teaching to demonstrate their knowledge in globally competitive tests? If they've taken the PISA, how did they do? I am sorry but you are off base on this. Science curriculums around the country have been influenced by the creationist zealots (and I use zealot to differentiate from the majority of zealots, not as an insult to all creationists) and it has impacted science programs and text selections. Are those efforts alone the reason behind the poor science test scores? No. However, I am concerned what will happen down the road if this continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureMoms Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Wow. I don't believe I have ever SLAMMED another member on this board quite so boldly. I happen to respect the variety of opinions here. My anger in this thread is at those who are very boldly and unashamedly bashing those of us who believe in Creation. I believe I was being MATURE (look that one up) in wanting to know what it meant before going off on a post. But now that I know... I'm so glad we sicken you. And I is also verry hapy that I is not intellectual b/c I beleeve in God. Can you imagine a similar thread on this board? Imagine a thread where the Creationist Christians were boldly BASHING the atheists, evolutionists, Muslims or whatever group (b/c we are a very diverse group here). Yikes. I shudder to think where THAT one would go. But I'm guessing THIS is tolerated. :glare: Wow. Unbelievable. FWIW...Bill Nye can believe what he wants. I really couldn't care any less about his opinion of Creation science. What I do care about is that this board used to be a place where we could all debate in a mature and civilized way...w/out calling names. Sigh. Um yes? It happens pretty regularly, right here on these boards. Atheists in particular seem to get slammed about a lot. Weekly, at least. Probably more often, I don't get to read all the threads. A few weeks ago I got treated to slamming of gay people like every day for a week. That one seems to be cyclical, we haven't gone there in a couple of weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Well, that's not very smart of him, because I believe a hebephilic Shinto would be more likely to be elected that a godless science freak (not that I'm calling B.O. a godless science freak, but if I were trying to support him publicly, this isn't the stuff I'd be tossing around). Oh, I hurt myself stifling that laugh, but I just wish it weren't true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cin Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 :lurk5: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I'm not even going to bother posting what I think of Bill Nye's comments, as they don't matter a bit to me -- nor do they matter to most people, I would assume. What I would like to say is that, while most of the comments here have been respectful, a few have been downright personally insulting, and I think it is sad that anyone feels the need to be intentionally mean and disparaging toward another member here, just because they disagree on a hot-button issue. I think it's fine to disagree and to debate, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who is hoping the rest of the thread can continue without personal insults. I was offended reading the insults, and they weren't even directed toward me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I am sorry but you are off base on this. Science curriculums around the country have been influenced by the creationist zealots (and I use zealot to differentiate from the majority of zealots, not as an insult to all creationists) and it has impacted science programs and text selections. Are those efforts alone the reason behind the poor science test scores? No. However, I am concerned what will happen down the road if this continues. But that's exactly what I mean. If Bill Nye had come out and said, "Here is what is happening in these locations and here is the result I predict," and if those schools had been at it long enough for there to actually be measurable results, then we would have a real news story and something to discuss. But he started at the other end. He started with people who demand those changes to the curriculum, instead of starting with those who make the decisions about curriculum and who teach the actual classes. If creationism is not science, it is not the parents who are to blame for the teaching of it in schools. I thought public education existed to help children gain knowledge that is not universally available at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureMoms Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I am sorry but you are off base on this. Science curriculums around the country have been influenced by the creationist zealots (and I use zealot to differentiate from the majority of zealots, not as an insult to all creationists) and it has impacted science programs and text selections. Are those efforts alone the reason behind the poor science test scores? No. However, I am concerned what will happen down the road if this continues. :iagree: I don't think that Creationism is the only thing that is harming education in this country, not by a long shot. I also don't really care what homeschoolers or private schools are teaching. However, there seems to be a lot of lobbying to get creationism taught in public schools, which I think is really wrong. My impression was that this is what Mr Nye is responding too. Evolution is an accepted foundational concept of several branches of science. It is well proven and has an enormous amount of evidence. It does not need to be substantiated by anyone's religious text. One can choose not to believe, but NOT teaching evolution in public schools will absolutely compromise students ability to understand big chunks of science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue G in PA Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 As I'm sure you'd prefer not to associate with equal rights loving, heathen, atheists. :001_smile: Actually, that is not correct. I associate with all sorts of people (atheists, people of varying religions, of NO religion, conservatives, democrats, etc.). We are all sinners in need of Savior. The people I don't choose to associate with are people like you who seem to think it is ok to insult those who have differing opinions. And I'm intolerant? SMH. I'm praying for you, Jennifer (though you will probably take that in a very condescending way...it is not meant to be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSNative Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) nm Edited August 31, 2012 by MSNative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 :iagree: I don't think that Creationism is the only thing that is harming education in this country, not by a long shot. I also don't really care what homeschoolers or private schools are teaching. However, there seems to be a lot of lobbying to get creationism taught in public schools, which I think is really wrong. My impression was that this is what Mr Nye is responding too. Evolution is an accepted foundational concept of several branches of science. It is well proven and has an enormous amount of evidence. It does not need to be substantiated by anyone's religious text. One can choose not to believe, but NOT teaching evolution in public schools will absolutely compromise students ability to understand big chunks of science. This is something I would like to learn more about, but Google is only leading me to the same kinds of 'discussions' that we're having here right now...too much to wade through... How many schools? How large is the YEC influence in public schools, and how has that influence grown? Does anyone have any hard facts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meggie Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I'm not even going to bother posting what I think of Bill Nye's comments, as they don't matter a bit to me -- nor do they matter to most people, I would assume. What I would like to say is that, while most of the comments here have been respectful, a few have been downright personally insulting, and I think it is sad that anyone feels the need to be intentionally mean and disparaging toward another member here, just because they disagree on a hot-button issue. I think it's fine to disagree and to debate, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who is hoping the rest of the thread can continue without personal insults. I was offended reading the insults, and they weren't even directed toward me. :iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: "Like" times a million. Lewelma (I think that's her name) had a very civil and open thread about evolution and the whys behind it over on the K-8 board several months ago. Why is it that the people on this board can't be as respectful? Seriously! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ. Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 :iagree: I don't think that Creationism is the only thing that is harming education in this country, not by a long shot. I also don't really care what homeschoolers or private schools are teaching. However, there seems to be a lot of lobbying to get creationism taught in public schools, which I think is really wrong. My impression was that this is what Mr Nye is responding too. Evolution is an accepted foundational concept of several branches of science. It is well proven and has an enormous amount of evidence. It does not need to be substantiated by anyone's religious text. One can choose not to believe, but NOT teaching evolution in public schools will absolutely compromise students ability to understand big chunks of science. Yep. :iagree: I would not be surprised if many schools gloss over evolution just to avoid the controversy. This was the case just a couple years ago in a college biology course I took at a local community college. It is unfortunate that so many are uneducated in what a scientific theory is let alone the basics of evolution. Many people don't even know what they are against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 But that's exactly what I mean. If Bill Nye had come out and said, "Here is what is happening in these locations and here is the result I predict," and if those schools had been at it long enough for there to actually be measurable results, then we would have a real news story and something to discuss. But he started at the other end. He started with people who demand those changes to the curriculum, instead of starting with those who make the decisions about curriculum and who teach the actual classes. If creationism is not science, it is not the parents who are to blame for the teaching of it in schools. I thought public education existed to help children gain knowledge that is not universally available at home. The attacks on evolution are coming through the state legislatures and elected school boards. Real educators are not making these decisions. Nye's point could have been stated better, but is legitimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma2three Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 :iagree: I don't think that Creationism is the only thing that is harming education in this country, not by a long shot. I also don't really care what homeschoolers or private schools are teaching. However, there seems to be a lot of lobbying to get creationism taught in public schools, which I think is really wrong. My impression was that this is what Mr Nye is responding too. Evolution is an accepted foundational concept of several branches of science. It is well proven and has an enormous amount of evidence. It does not need to be substantiated by anyone's religious text. One can choose not to believe, but NOT teaching evolution in public schools will absolutely compromise students ability to understand big chunks of science. :iagree: And I agree with ChocolateReign that this isn't new at all. Creationism has been sneaking into textbooks for decades now. I remember when I was in high school, my science teacher talking about how there were very few high school biology textbooks that weren't influenced by creationist propaganda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 SMH. Now you've stumped me. What is SMH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlifemom Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 [sigh] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Now you've stumped me. What is SMH? Smack my head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 The attacks on evolution are coming through the state legislatures and elected school boards. Real educators are not making these decisions. Nye's point could have been stated better, but is legitimate. :iagree: And I agree with ChocolateReign that this isn't new at all. Creationism has been sneaking into textbooks for decades now. I remember when I was in high school, my science teacher talking about how there were very few high school biology textbooks that weren't influenced by creationist propaganda. Alright. Now we are getting somewhere. Could we please keep the thread open, because I would like to hear more about how a school board can force a teacher to teach YEC as science when he doesn't believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 my science teacher talking about how there were very few high school biology textbooks that weren't influenced by creationist propaganda. I'm agreeing or disagreeing, but I'd love to see some quotes of these texts, so we can judge for ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue G in PA Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Sorry...Shaking My Head (blame the teens in my house...) :tongue_smilie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I see. So threatening to "blast" me is ok but my pointing out that since you don't know what you are blasting, your post made little sense to me is immature. I think it's immature to be mad about something when you don't know what it is. But again, since most creationists don't actually understand the theory of evolution, I'm not shocked by your response. You cannot understand what you think is antithetical to your very existence. And what has happened to science, and is continuing to happen to science in this country DOES sicken me. I feel so much sympathy for children brought up this way becuase large blocks of the most interesting, intellectually stimulating and higher paying jobs will simply be out of bounds for them forever. I think it's criminal child abuse. I cannot arrest you. It's not illegal. I do believe it should be but since I'm NOT a jealous, magickal sky diety, I cannot make it so. So teach whatever you want. I could not care less what you teach your children. I keep my family away from people like you for a very good reason. I do not want that kind of belief system affecting my children or impacting their love of science. As I'm sure you'd prefer not to associate with equal rights loving, heathen, atheists. :001_smile: Wow. How incredibly rude and offensive. Any validity of any point you may have made is lost by attacking other ppl's religious beliefs. Just, wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 From the Washington Post article: Your world just becomes fantastically complicated when you don’t believe in evolution. I mean, here are these ancient dinosaur bones or fossils, here is radioactivity, here are distant stars that are just like our star but at different points in the life cycle. The idea of deep time, of billions of years, explains so much of the world around us. If you try to ignore that, your world view just becomes crazy, just untenable, itself inconsistent. I think he used the word "evolution" in the quote above when he really meant "a belief that Earth and the universe are billions of years old." A belief or lack of belief in evolution has nothing to do with the age and distance of stars. However, if you believe in a universe that is only a few thousand years, that needs to be reconciled with us being able to see stars billions of light years away, radiometric dating, etc. I have seen at least one person in this thread refer to "evolution" when they really meant something about the age of the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 This is something I would like to learn more about, but Google is only leading me to the same kinds of 'discussions' that we're having here right now...too much to wade through... How many schools? How large is the YEC influence in public schools, and how has that influence grown? Does anyone have any hard facts? You might be able to find something through groups supporting teaching real science in schools. I doubt anyone keeps any statistics on the matter, but the issue has been coming up more and more throughout the southeast and midwest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Actually, that is not correct. I associate with all sorts of people (atheists, people of varying religions, of NO religion, conservatives, democrats, etc.). We are all sinners in need of Savior. The people I don't choose to associate with are people like you who seem to think it is ok to insult those who have differing opinions. And I'm intolerant? SMH. I'm praying for you, Jennifer (though you will probably take that in a very condescending way...it is not meant to be). Actually, your "praying for me" is offensive to me but I would not expect you to care about that. I don't need a savior. Kudos to you if you do, I guess but I don't get why you'd go around bragging about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girl Power Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I cannot arrest you. It's not illegal. I do believe it should be but since I'm NOT a jealous, magickal sky diety, I cannot make it so. So teach whatever you want. I could not care less what you teach your children. I keep my family away from people like you for a very good reason. I do not want that kind of belief system affecting my children or impacting their love of science. As I'm sure you'd prefer not to associate with equal rights loving, heathen, atheists. :001_smile: Angry much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I'm agreeing or disagreeing, but I'd love to see some quotes of these texts, so we can judge for ourselves. You might be able to find something through groups supporting teaching real science in schools. I doubt anyone keeps any statistics on the matter, but the issue has been coming up more and more throughout the southeast and midwest. kal's right. This is too vague. What books? What lobbying groups? Which state legislatures, which school boards... until we have something more concrete than specious accusations from one camp to another (and back again) we have nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ. Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 IMO, it is not just the teaching of YEC in a science classroom but the lack of thoroughly teaching evolution in a classroom. Up-thread I mentioned that I encountered this in a college BIO class, when I asked about it the teacher said that it tends to be controversial. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the stance taken in many schools throughout the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avila Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Actually, your "praying for me" is offensive to me but I would not expect you to care about that. I don't need a savior. Kudos to you if you do, I guess but I don't get why you'd go around bragging about that. What are you on tonight that you think it is ok to brazenly bash somebody else's faith so aggressively? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureMoms Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 This is something I would like to learn more about, but Google is only leading me to the same kinds of 'discussions' that we're having here right now...too much to wade through... How many schools? How large is the YEC influence in public schools, and how has that influence grown? Does anyone have any hard facts? Wikipedia has a good overview article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_and_evolution_in_public_education_in_the_United_States Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I was offended reading the insults, and they weren't even directed toward me. :iagree: How about our enthusiastic atheists remember that Creationists do not all hold to the same idea of what that means. Those on one end of the scale may be eons away from what you believe, but those on the other only differ from you on whether a god made it happen. It'd be so much friendlier to ensure you're only kicking people the right amount. A flat kicking tax really isn't fair in this situation. :rolleyes: Rosie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Alright. Now we are getting somewhere. Could we please keep the thread open, because I would like to hear more about how a school board can force a teacher to teach YEC as science when he doesn't believe it. Textbook selection for a start. In recent years, it has been done by requiring that evolution be specifically cited as a theory, and that other "equally" valid (ie creationism) be given equal time in the classroom. I seem to recall a midwestern state having a discussion about removing anything related to evolution/old earth from state wide science exams. In highly conservative areas, a science teacher bucking the trend would have some problems if the school board is involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Wikipedia has a good overview article.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_and_evolution_in_public_education_in_the_United_States Thank you! Off to read, not really expecting the thread to be here when I get back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 kal's right. This is too vague. What books? What lobbying groups? Which state legislatures, which school boards... until we have something more concrete than specious accusations from one camp to another (and back again) we have nothing. I am not going to stay up tonight googling for you, sorry. I am sure you can dig around and find references on news sites as it has been a frequent story over the past 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlifemom Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 :iagree: How about our enthusiastic atheists remember that Creationists do not all hold to the same idea of what that means. Those on one end of the scale may be eons away from what you believe, but those on the other only differ from you on whether a god made it happen. It'd be so much friendlier to ensure you're only kicking people the right amount. A flat kicking tax really isn't fair in this situation. :rolleyes: Rosie Ah Rosie, ever the voice of reason. [cue the music] I think I love you. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I am not going to stay up tonight googling for you, sorry. I am sure you can dig around and find references on news sites as it has been a frequent story over the past 10 years. Oh, for Pete's sake. How stupid. Everyone knows it is a hot topic and nobody asked you to Google for them. I did inquire whether you knew of any actual examples since you were speaking so authoritatively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Thank you! Off to read, not really expecting the thread to be here when I get back... Good bet!!!:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureMoms Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 IMO, it is not just the teaching of YEC in a science classroom but the lack of thoroughly teaching evolution in a classroom. Up-thread I mentioned that I encountered this in a college BIO class, when I asked about it the teacher said that it tends to be controversial. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the stance taken in many schools throughout the country. :iagree::iagree::iagree: Yes, this. I feel like science teachers are afraid because there is SO much controversy over the teaching of evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) These threads never turn out well. They always seem to devolve into something like this: Non-Christian evolutionist: How can you be such an idiot? Obviously the earth is billions of years old. YEC: Don't call me ignorant just because I believe differently than you. A Catholic or other theistic evolutionist: What's the big deal? The Bible is more about why God did stuff, not what scientific process he used. YEC: If you believe in death before The Fall, then you don't believe the Bible. Theistic Evolutionist: Genesis isn't meant to be a science book. No matter when death started, obviously people sin and need a Savior. Hopefully, I haven't managed to upset everyone in every camp with this. Edited August 31, 2012 by HoppyTheToad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Oh, for Pete's sake. How stupid. Everyone knows it is a hot topic and nobody asked you to Google for them. I did inquire whether you knew of any actual examples since you were speaking so authoritatively. You need to :chillpill: as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnsinkableKristen Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Ah Rosie, ever the voice of reason. [cue the music] I think I love you. :D I agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in STL Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Ok, this was kind of mean. I was going to respond as well, but wasn't sure whether RR meant religious right b/c that is an incorrect use of the term, I believe. I think I would be classified as religious right in that I am a conservative and a Christian. But, I am a strong supporter of teaching evolution to children. I am conservative in that I am mostly socially conservative (strongly pro-life) and a Christian in that I am Catholic. I also believe in theistic evolution. There are more accurate terms to describe theistic non-evolutionary creationists. Laura :iagree: it seems to me that Sue thought she knew what you meant by RR, but wanted to make sure before she presented her argument. I fail to see how that is anti-intellectual. I don't know that I fit into your "Religious Right" category either. I am a Catholic and consider myself mostly socially conservative, but I also believe in theistic evolution. I have never considered that being socially conservative had anything to do with my stance on evolution. However, I cannot understand how anyone can argue that creationism is responsible for the state of science education in our country. The majority of students who are represented in national test scores are being taught evolution, are they not? I may not believe in strict creationism personally, but it cannot be blamed for our failure in science. That has more to do with policies of groups like the NEA, which are definitely not in the camp of the RR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvasMom Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 These threads never turn out well. They always seem to devolve into something like this: Non-Christian evolutionist: How can you be such an idiot? Obviously the earth is billions of years old. YEC: Don't call me ignorant just because I believe differently than you. A Catholic or other theistic evolutionist: What's the big deal? The Bible is more about why God did stuff, not what scientific process he used. YEC: If you believe in death before The Fall, then you don't believe the Bible. Theistic Evolutionist: Genesis isn't meant to be a science book. No matter when death started, obviously people sin and need a Savior. Hopefully, I haven't managed to upset everyone for every camp with this. The TE representation sounds pretty accurate and non-upsetting. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munchkins_mama Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Now, I'm the first to admit that I'm not the most learned individual ( I graduated HS with great grades but didn't go any further), but I want to know WHY Creationism and Evolution can't co-exist. I'm a Christian and I fully believe that God created this earth and everything on it. But I also believe that evolution is real. I think that teaching that things are the way they have always been, with no changes, or bits of evolution, is silly. It's unscientific. And if we demand separation of Church and government and all the public schools are government run, WHY would they be teaching Creationism anyway??? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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