ValRN Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I did a search and could not find anything on my question. This is my first 12th grade DC. DS is going through the college application process in order to get apps in by Nov. 1. He handed me his personal essay........and it is soooo not a personal essay. He is very sensitive about any suggestion I make about his writing. That is the precise reason that I outsource this subject. Anyway, I would like for him to work with a essay editing service for his personal essay. Has anyone used such a service? If so, was is worth it? Can you recommend a company/person? And how much editing (or coaching) is not too much for this type of essay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I personally would feel extremely uneasy hiring a professional service for editing my student's college application essay. I don't even think I should be doing any editing. It is supposed to be the student's work. Gentle suggestions from a parent maybe - but I feel a professional editing service is crossing the line; I would consider it unethical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttichen Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I don't know about a professional editing service, but there is certainly no problem with a parent or teacher looking over a student's essay and making suggestions and proofreading. I have heard college admissions officials recommend this at pretty much every place we've visited. They expect students to have help with editing. Maybe it's sad that it's necessary, but that's the way it is... People have hired me as a tutor to help their students with their essays and I see no problem with it. It's still completely the student's work. I just give suggestions -- for example, instead of saying, "I volunteered in a homeless shelter," start with a vivid "word picture" of an experience at the shelter. I also point out any grammar or spelling errors that need to be fixed. The finished essay is still the student's work in the student's voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I don't know about a professional editing service, but there is certainly no problem with a parent or teacher looking over a student's essay and making suggestions and proofreading. I have heard college admissions officials recommend this at pretty much every place we've visited. They expect students to have help with editing. People have hired me as a tutor to help their students with their essays and I see no problem with it. It's still completely the student's work. I just give suggestions -- for example, instead of saying, "I volunteered in a homeless shelter," start with a vivid "word picture" of an experience at the shelter. I also point out any grammar or spelling errors that need to be fixed. The finished essay is still the student's work in the student's voice. :iagree: I'm doing this for two of my nieces and my sister did it for my son. I think having people review important written work and offer comments/suggestions is common and accepted. Neither my spouse nor I have ever submitted a resume and cover letter without the other one reviewing it, and all of the written materials where I work are reviewed and critiqued by several people. Every outside teacher my son had during high school (including college professors) encouraged students to have others review their papers before submission, some even offered to read and comment on first drafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Posted September 1, 2012 Share Posted September 1, 2012 I think the distinction you need to make clear to everyone involved in the process is the student needs to write the essay, but extra editing help for a home schooled student is fine. Colleges are aware that some students get essays written totally by someone else; that's obviously not ethical, but if you read about the kinds of help some students in schools get, I think you'll decide that having an online editing service is acceptable. http://www.amazon.com/Acceptance-Legendary-Counselor-Colleges---Themselves/dp/B0057D9B0U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1346506872&sr=8-1&keywords=acceptance This book follows high school seniors at one well-heeled public school on Long Island, the "guidance counselor" in question has a class for seniors that focuses solely on essay writing for college applications. In other books on the admissions process like The Gatekeepers you see similar help to students in high end college prep schools. As a home school parent you don't have that under your roof, but you can certainly have an online writing or guidance counselor to help with an admissions essay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommamagistra Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Many of the TPS English teachers do tutoring on the side. Ms. Gaines worked with DC over Skype and was instrumental in getting DC to write a personal essay in which DC's personality and voice spoke -- and spoke grammatically and coherently. When there's a 500 word limit, every word counts. It can be difficult for kids to write these personal essays and -- since they are so personal and so much is on the line -- even more difficult for DC to accept and work with a parent's edits. You're essentially correcting your kid's vision of himself/herself, which can get tense and touchy, if you know what I mean. The TPS teachers do this all the time -- they're professionals at what they do and they really care; plus it's not their kid, which makes all the difference in the world. If you don't have a TPS English teacher, maybe you can contact their admin and ask whom they'd recommend or just write to one of the teachers whose bio catches your eye. They are all wonderful or so that's been our experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Glenn, Since you're new to the list, you might want to review the forum rules. You can find them at the top of the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 I personally would feel extremely uneasy hiring a professional service for editing my student's college application essay. I don't even think I should be doing any editing. It is supposed to be the student's work. Gentle suggestions from a parent maybe - but I feel a professional editing service is crossing the line; I would consider it unethical. I would be unlikely to use a service, since our family is full of adults with writing experience. While I agree that it would be great if the essays represented student work, it's probably rarely the case. I have read of schools with college prep courses totally devoted to essay writing and college research. (IE, a course with a grade that is all about choosing and applying to colleges.) I think that the help should be more in the vein of "does this answer the question?" or "does this have a consistent topic/tone/voice/audience?" or "did you read this aloud and listen for subject verb agreement?" Out and out rewriting of the essay is improper. But it is also unverifiable. Which is one reason the SAT added the essay component in the first place. Ironic that from what I've heard, the lower scores from the essay are one reason student are looking more at the ACT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catherine Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I personally strongly agree with you. But when I asked around my peer group IRL, I discovered that parental guidance, and hired guidance, was the norm, and many openly hinted that they practically wrote their kids' essays. It's rank dishonestly and cheating, but unfortunately, not surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Please know that it is glaringly obvious. We have found that many, many schools are not interested in the SAT Writing section due to the fact that it is not one in which the children of the" powers that be" can carry off on their own. My cousin sits on the admissions committee at Stanford and has informed me that they look for incongruity between the essays and the transcript records and grades earned. Frankly speaking if your child cannot write a decent essay they ought not attend uni yet. It is expected and mandatory for exams and papers. The dishonesty in one area of life is so easy to leak into the rest of one's life. To me it is not worth setting a horrible example for my daughter. To prove the point, in my first year of law school we were told of the honor code. To violate the code one only need observe cheating and fail to report it. If you violate the code you are out as well as the perpetrator. Straight A student cheated on ETHICS multiple choice exam and was reported per honor code rule. He was not permitted to come back until the next year. His cronies spent a good 6 months calling the students who followed the rules horrid names, putting up mock ups in the law school newspaper demeaning the physical features of the students who had reported the cheating and so forth. One of the students is suspended from the California bar and the other is a Federal District Court Judge. I will venture you can guess where the cheat is in this scenario. He never learned his lesson. Realize that you are teaching other lessons than how to write a good essay to get into uni/college and proceed accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooooom Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I think you need to do some research on what a college app essay should sound like. There are plenty of books out there with examples in them and you can also google to see online examples. There is a particular style for writing a college app essay, and yes it should say something personal about the applicant. However, there should be no bragging, and generally the use of "I" is discouraged. My kids, after reading multiple samples, were able to produce decent essays, but nobody produced anything that I didn't read over and make suggestions. My suggestions consisted mostly of underlining something I didn't feel was clear or circling a word that had been used repetitively or was "wimpy" They went back and made their own corrections. I don't feel this was cheating; I never told them what to write. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValRN Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 I'm not talking about cheating, Ladies. DS will write his own essay. As a matter of fact, he is STILL :banghead: working on it. I feel that it all depends on what the editing company does. Within the last couple of weeks of asking around, I found a person who is actually hired by a a county in Michigan to give college application essay classes specifically for students targeting the University of Michigan. And I got the impression that she did this will UM's full knowledge of the fact that she provides that service. I just wanted to make it clear that I am not trying to cheat the system. DS is fully capable of writing an application essay (although his writing skills are not where I think they should be). For the sake of discussion - would paying for an editing service for an application essay be equivalent to paying for an SAT/ACT prep course? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) For the sake of discussion - would paying for an editing service for an application essay be equivalent to paying for an SAT/ACT prep course? No. The way I see it: if you pay for a prep course, the student is still fully responsible for his performance on the test. The equivalent of paying for a test prep course is paying for a professional writing course in preparation for the essay writing. Paying an editing service is like paying somebody to go over the test answers with you during the exam and help you correct wrong anwers. Edited October 9, 2012 by regentrude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbara H Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Disclosure: In addition to being a homeschooler, I have been a writing tutor for 25 years and I am a college consultant. I'm sure we would all be in agreement that any service that sells essays or writes essays for students is unethical and inappropriate. Unfortunately this happens quite often in college admissions and is particularly a problem with international students. I see this as entirely distinct from the type of service provided by a good writing tutor. What I do depends on the needs of the individual student. One group I end up working with often are STEM guys who are bright but may struggle with personal writing. Often through English class or parents, they have the idea they are supposed to write an emotional essay on a topic they can't relate to at all. Sometimes all they need is a little help with brainstorming and the confidence that it is appropriate to write about the geeky topic of their choice. A third party (whether it is a tutor or a friend) can also be helpful in diffusing tension. College admissions can be a tough time for parents and kids and tempers can flair over essays. As we all know, sometimes the exact same suggestions that were totally rejected when mom made them, are brilliant when they come from another source. Asking for feedback on your writing is not cheating. It is a good lifetime habit we should all learn. College admissions officers expect, and will suggest, that students have their essays proofread. The suggestion that students have essays read by both a teacher and a friend is a common one. Many students who attend school have college essay writing as part of their English curriculum senior year as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttichen Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 generally the use of "I" is discouraged. I'm not sure about that -- my kids always told personal stories using I and they've been accepted pretty much everywhere they've applied, including Harvard, Yale and Princeton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muttichen Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) Asking for feedback on your writing is not cheating. It is a good lifetime habit we should all learn. College admissions officers expect, and will suggest, that students have their essays proofread. The suggestion that students have essays read by both a teacher and a friend is a common one. :iagree: I have heard this advice over and over at college info sessions. The application essay isn't a writing test; it's a chance for the admissions people to get to know the student in ways that wouldn't come through on other parts of the application. Paying someone to write it for you would be unethical. Having someone look over what you've written and make suggestions is recommended by admissions people and is wise. Edited October 10, 2012 by Muttichen typo -- and sorry for the double post. I couldn't figure out how to use multiple quotes =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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