Hard Choices

[Robin Hood]

Dh and I had to make a hard choice. It seems petty, but it was hard.

 

We are quitting swim team. My dds have done so well in performances and in their personal growth that we hate to see it end, as do they. I had asked for hive advice last month because my older 9yo (kate) was accosted by an 11yo Mean Girl who likes a boy that Kate is friends with. I wasn't sure how to handle it and left it to the coach. I have no idea what the outcome of that was.

 

Two weeks later, my younger (Bianca) was touched inappropriately by this same girl. I was a little worked up even after extensively questioning Bianca to make sure she wasn't misreading anything. Bottom line - she felt violated. I asked a veteran mom how to handle the situation and she said talk to the girl. So I did. In front of two witnesses. Four feet away. All I did though was to tell her not to touch either of my girls again.

 

Mean Girl's mom is uninvolved in her dds life, is a druggie and has had jail time. Mean Girl has an advocate that is using swim team to help her. This advocate who was a witness has twisted what I said into me assalting Mean Girl, leaving nail marks in her arm and shoving my finger into her chest and pushing her around while I yelled at her. I was no more than 4 feet away from Advocate and another mom when I told Mean Girl not to touch my girls again. Neither woman knew what I said because they could not hear me, 4 feet away, but somehow that is yellling. The other witness said that what I was accused of never happened and that I handled situation very professionally. She is a school nurse.

 

Swim Team president said she believes I did nothing wrong but to make situation go away, say and do nothing more about it. Mean Girl's mom is going around town now telling ex employee of ours and others that I am a F....B.... and that I beat up her dd. OK fine. I don't care. But then she throws my dds into mix and my dander got ruffled. Again, I said words, but nothing more than that my dds did nothing wrong and have no need to applogize. Again, I am told not to talk about it and it will go away.

 

FF to yesterday's swim meet. I said hi to Mean Girl. She was in close proximity for much of the day. Later, she was standing near me. I am a timer. I said, "Swim well." to her. That is all. Mean Girls's mother did show up for 1/2 an hour. Mean Girl told her mother than I "talked" to her. Mother talks to Pres. Pres tells dh and I that it is best to not talk to Mean Girl period. No talking, nada. Stay away. The situation will go away if I don't have anything to do with Mean Girl even tho Pres is on our side of issue. This is tollerance?

 

On the way home, I told my girls that we did what we could to befriend Mean Girl and rise above a disagreeable situation. I have been ordered not to talk to her so I think it best that they don't either. Stay away. Then Bianca pipes in with, "She came up to me today and told me that my mom is not allowed to talk to her." By the time I got home that had me pretty worked up. That my hands are tied and this girl has permission to approach my dds against my will while I can't even say a word has me upset. She has been not only been physical with my girls, but verbal too. Dh and I wrestled all evening and into this morning and decided that an 11 yo Mean Girl and her uninvolved druggie mother have somehow gotten control of the swim team. It seems like there is a community attempt to help this young girl which we are not against. But is this helping her? Dh is concerned that if I walk into the locker room and Mean Girl is there alone, she could accuse me of anything, even if I turn and immediatly walk out.

 

Ya know what? I am not a mean person. Dh and I are held in high regard in our community and we are a tight family. I feel like I am being drug low and I am not doing well with it. I have a right to protect my children ~ I think. I didn't hurt anybody. I don't want this girl touching my kids, but I want to get along with her. I want my dds to get along with her. Just no touching. No mean words. To protect our family, we decided to quit swim team. That just seems backwards. We are going to write a nice letter of resignation to the Pres and a thank you to the coaches for their input into our dd lives. I don't know if the coach knows the depth of it so we are not even going to address anything, only that we feel the need to protect our family from further drama.

 

I know this affects no one here, but I need to work it out, so thanks for letting my get it off my chest.

[Hen]

wow, I really feel for you- that is a horrible situation. It always amazes me that the evil people will push for their own way and the 'good' people feel helpless.

 

I am so sorry for you, and the situation you find yourself in. It sounds like you handled things well, it's just so incredible that it can all be twisted the way it has been.

 

I think in your shoes, I would also quit- to protect myself and my girls.

 

I do wonder if you should try to talk privately with someone in charge to let them know exactly what went down? I think private, so more froth won't be added to the situation- but so that someone high up will at least have the other side of things and will be able to be more discerning the next time things crop up with this girl-and I am sure things will keep happening.

 

hugs to you.

:grouphug:

[kaylk in tx]

but i do know that this would not be tolerated at my ds's swim team. before resigning i would speak to the leadership again. be nice but really lay it all out there... how you simply wanted inappropriate behavior by this young girl to cease. when that wasn't adequately addressed by the staff, (did the coach ever really find out what so going on so they could try to handle it?) you felt you had no choice but to let the girl know it needed to stop. now it's been turned around to make you look like the instigator and that your family is feeling persecuted to the extent that you feel you may have to resign your membership. if they still seemed to not understand and/or be willing to take corrective action, i'd have the resignation letter in my purse ready to hand to them on the spot. of course i live in houston where there are tons of swim teams... i'd just have to drive a little farther!

[mommylawyer]

I'm so sorry that has happened to your family and that your solution had to be to quit swim team I hope all of this blows over. And maybe your children can go back one day.

 

Good luck!

[2cents]

Wow! This is so out of control! I'm not sure quitting swim team is the answer though. I would approach the managers of the team and ask that the girl be subject to the same conditions that you are. She should not be allowed to approach your daughters and as far as her being able to make false allegations...well..that is tricky. I wouldn't want to live life afraid like that because honestly anyone can make an allegation. I wouldn't want the girl to know she has that kind of control over you. I would encourage you to stand your ground and show your daughters and everyone else (who will be potential new targets if you leave) to show this girl and her nutty mother that you are not intimidated. I'd also make the swim team powers get off their rears and address this issue in a more proactive manner. Ignoring it will not make it go away.

[Robin Hood]

 

 

 

I do wonder if you should try to talk privately with someone in charge to let them know exactly what went down? I think private, so more froth won't be added to the situation- but so that someone high up will at least have the other side of things and will be able to be more discerning the next time things crop up with this girl-and I am sure things will keep happening.

 

 

:grouphug:

 

We will write a little bit about it. I think most of the board barely know what it happening. We want to be gentle and we want no backlash for the rest of the team. We are concerned that if we reveal all of what we have been through, Mean Girl could be asked to leave and then her mom might privately sue someone. We want to protect others, too.

[Brindee]

We will write a little bit about it. I think most of the board barely know what it happening. We want to be gentle and we want no backlash for the rest of the team. We are concerned that if we reveal all of what we have been through, Mean Girl could be asked to leave and then her mom might privately sue someone. We want to protect others, too.

Wha...? So, she beats your dd up. She calls your dd's names. She inappropriately touches your other dd. She lies to her mom. Her mom accuses you falsely and calls you bad names. Someone there backs up lying dd for some reason. YOU are told to stay away from the girl. You are told to back away. You are the one that quits so as to not cause problems. And the mom sues you or the facility??? How could she get away with that? How could the facility NOT kick Meangirl out after what has taken place? WHY are they allowing these two to run this facility through meanness and threats? Someone has to stand up to them! You need to document everything that's happened and the peoples names who really saw and told the truth about what happened. YOU are in the right and are the one that should have the rights.

 

I can't believe this is going this direction! Meangirl and her mom are being enabled to act this way as much as they want and get away with it! Everyone is enabling them by doing nothing about it! Who has to get badly hurt before someone puts a stop to this?

 

 

 

 

Problem is, I confess, I might be so frustrated with it all that I'd end up playing into their hands and just quit too! :glare: :( It's hard to fight a system sometimes. I do think something needs to be done though! And I might try to stay in and fight it for my dd's sakes. This is tough! I'll pray for you!

[G5052]

I'm to the point that I expect a group to hold the children to a high standard of behavior. If they don't we move on. A little scuffle here and there between kids is normal as long as it's corrected and doesn't continue, but this is OUTRAGEOUS.

 

I'd send a letter to the leadership and leave. They have problems that will blow up on them.

[Desert Rat]

I'm so sorry you feel pushed to quit the team! I'm like you. I agree with others that I'd fight it but I'd definitely not put my daughters in that situation. Stop going and then see if you can work something out. In the meantime, maybe there is another swim team you can join? Good luck to you. I'm so sad that this happens to people.

My 5yo was bullied in the boys bathroom at TKD but unlike you, our Master handled it swiftly and surely. The second time it happened he was well aware and the boys were reprimanded. I think their parents were embarassed because I don't see them in class. I didn't want them to leave exactly, just not be mean to my boy.

I really feel for your situation and hope something good can result from it.

[Robin Hood]

Wow! This is so out of control! I'm not sure quitting swim team is the answer though. I would approach the managers of the team and ask that the girl be subject to the same conditions that you are. She should not be allowed to approach your daughters and as far as her being able to make false allegations...well..that is tricky. I wouldn't want to live life afraid like that because honestly anyone can make an allegation. I wouldn't want the girl to know she has that kind of control over you. I would encourage you to stand your ground and show your daughters and everyone else (who will be potential new targets if you leave) to show this girl and her nutty mother that you are not intimidated. I'd also make the swim team powers get off their rears and address this issue in a more proactive manner. Ignoring it will not make it go away.

 

We are inclined to fight it out. That's the wrestling we are going through. Mean Girl has lots of support from the community because they want to see her not get to her mother's low. She is friends with almost everybody's dds. Pres's son, Nice Boy is the friend of my Kate and Pres wants the kindred spirit of our kids to continue. Mean Girl likes Nice Boy and wants to fight my dd for him. Kate does not know this. I tried to explain it a little to her, but it's over her head. Pres doesn't want Mean Girl to have anything to do with her son. She has a stake in this, too.

 

My Bianca, has befriended Mean Girl because she herself had a birthmother like Mean Girl. Bianca was a Mean Girl when she came to live with us at age 5. She has beautifully risen above it and let the pain of her past turn her into a gentle spirit. I would not allow any of the negative behavior that she came into our home with and she is astonishingly, extraordinarily, tenatiously doing all she can to be good. She has a network of friends who love her deeply, adults as well as children. One mom has even recently asked if Bianca, at 9 years of age, could be paid to come over and entertain her little boys so she can get some work done because she is so good with children.

 

All of the people working with Mean Girl are paid employees of the state in the public school system. I would be fighting their system. They are working it into swim team politics. DH and I believe we have a better system, looking at the outcomes of Mean Girl vs Bianca, but hey, what do we know?

 

Dh and I played out many scenarios and we think quiting is the best option. As a family, we can play together as a foursome instead of mom and dad on the sidelines. Bianca loves to swim. She thinks laps are fun. I have even thought of exposing my aging legs in a bathing suit, going to the pool and practicing laps with her. I can barely swim, but I'll do it for her. I can sign her up next year and let her race as an independent swimmer. If she is good enough, maybe we can get sponsers and a coach.

 

I was so worried about the direction this could take that I called hslda, and they advised us to quit, something dh had already decided. It's not worth the fight. Be a family. That is all that matters.

[Robin Hood]

Wha...?

quote]

 

:lol: My kids always say "wha?", too. I am forever telling them that there is a t at the end of that word. :lol:

[teamturner]

I'd also make the swim team powers get off their rears and address this issue in a more proactive manner. Ignoring it will not make it go away.

 

Yes, if you leave, this girl is just going to be agressive and inappropriate w/some one else. I'm a fighter type person and would find it hard to make my dc quit something they love because of a bully. Maybe you could send a letter to the board stating your issues and say that you are considering leaving the swim team if it is not resolved in a fair and appropriate manner.

[Rosie_0801]

The leadership are behaving like whimps. Meanie girl and her mum are behaving like bullies. Fighting won't change either party, so find a new team. If fighting would change it, that'd be a different story...

Rosie

[LauraGB]

Unbelievable! I hope the letter you write is very forward and to the point (but professional, of course). Is there another town/county/school that has a swim team for your dd to join?

[Remudamom]

Maybe first try sending a registered letter detailing the events, and stating that you want action taken so that you may stay on the team?? I'd threaten with my lawyer.

[bettyandbob]

general recreational summer league where results end at the end of the season or is this a USA swimming affiliated club or Y affiliated club.

 

I comanage a neighborhood summer league team. We had no official behavior policy in our league. We had a serious problem with a swimmer a few years ago and requested help from the board. They said we pretty much had free reign to handle it. So, we wrote our own policy and we laid out consequences for the behaviors. One of the consequences was the a parent/guardian had to be within 10 feet of the child at all times. So, during practice the parent had to pace the deck for an hour. I found these parents to have serious issues with admitting there was a real problem, but they were also desperate to keep their child in the activity (he'd already been banned from another sport league in our town). So the dad paced the deck--we did have to remind him some days but he did it for 2 summers. This consequence was used as a condition to return to the team after a week's suspension. (BTW, we have quite few scholarship swimmers, but the swimmer who forced our policy to be written wasn't on scholarship)

 

It sounds like you are a rec team and the board has no policies and wants to be "inclusive". Your particular situation may involve not only a scholarship, but a race factor, which further complicates everyone's effort to be pc and inclusive. Your team needs a behavioral policy that covers all types of interactions.

 

Your girls like swimming. What are your options to keep swimming if you leave the team. Is there a team nearby to join? I'd have a hard time leaving this were a neighborhood team which practiced at a pool we could walk to. If I have to drive, an extra couple of miles doesn't bother me.

 

If you leave, I'd tell the team pres why since she understands a bit of the situation and likes your girls. But I wouldn't tell everyone else. You could easily come off looking bad since finding fault with this child is not what the board is ready to do. Your absence will speak. Additionally, this girl will likely cause trouble for someone else. She's going to have to cause trouble for someone else before the board acts. Right now it's just one family upset. This girl will keep targeting your family because she can be the bully. Your leaving will force her to find a new target and that is when the powers that be realize the problem is the girl and the problem is big enough that it won't go away and must address it.

 

If you stay, but are very concerned, start keeping records. Stay miles away. Every time the girl approaches you record it. Record everything she says and who was near. have your girls report all interactions. If you are that concerned about the locker try to go with a buddy. Sounds silly, but find someone you can confide in on this problem who you can get to go through the locker room with you when you can go through casually other people.

[2cents]

I'm sorry for what you're going through. If HSLDA advises you quit then I think I'd listen to them. Backlash can be a scary thing. Do you have a YMCA you can join nearby? My children do their swim team via the Y and the rules are well-enforced and the environment is very team-oriented and supportive. It is such a shame that one mean girl can hurt everyone like this. :(

[Laurie4b]

The thing that worries me is the advocate lying about you. That is pretty scary. If it weren't for that, I'd stick it out. However, given that, I think I'd cut my losses and get out of there before this blows up more. Very bizarre.

[Brindee]

:lol: My kids always say "wha?", too. I am forever telling them that there is a t at the end of that word. :lol:

That means total shock! So shocked you can't find the t to put on the end! :lol:

 

Hey, you go with what your family needs to do! THAT is what's best, no matter what anyone else says! I wish the best for you all, and hope your dd continues to do well in swimming!

[MicheleB]

You might want to consider reporting her to authorities. Here's my reason:

 

She's older than your girls and has accosted them and also touched one inappropriately.

 

She will do this to someone else.

 

We had a few situations here. One girl we knew, who was mad at us (long story but we reported her father for se*ual abuse of one of his dds... for which he confessed, was convicted and sent to jail) called and left us a msg. saying "Do you want to have s*x with me?" We also had other harassing communication from other members of the family. We called the police. Not that we expected or *wanted* the girl to be arrested, but that we wanted an authority involved and to have everything documented by the authority.

 

A niece of mine inappropriately touched (actually, coerced with threat of physical harm) one of my dc. I now do not EVER allow her alone with any of my dc. If it EVER happened again, I would call the police.

 

I don't know if there's anyone you could call *before* you called police (Family Services maybe?). But I see major red flags and I'm concerned that she not only hurt your dds, but will hurt others as well.

 

I think you are handling it admirably and doing well not to get sucked into the name-calling and nastiness. I think you did a wise thing by contacting HSLDA as well.

 

I don't know.... it's so messed up. If I were you, I'd try to document everything, have your witness also document it, and have some type of authority involved to cover yourselves.

 

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

[WTMCassandra]

I'm soooo sorry you're going through this. Unfortunately, in this kind of a case, the "victim" is often rightly viewed as the more malleable, so they are invalidated and told to shut down. The "authorities" are probably at a loss with to deal with malicious, out-of-control people, and they know you are not like that, so they are trying to control YOU rather than really deal with the problem. The result of course is that the victim is further victimized. Sometimes the only choice is to simply get away from that kind of situation. I'm so sorry you and your DDs have to pay the price for the other Mom/DD's predatory nature.

 

Although this is a painful lesson for DD, it is actually good to know that there are senselessly vicious people out there and what can happen to a victim. I didn't understand this or the dynamics involved until I was over 30yo (yes, I was tremendously naive). And I had an extremely painful introduction to this concept, especially the re-victimization part. If she can learn to get herself away and safe, knowing that she can't "manage" what other people think of her, knowing that no activity is more important than being emotionally safe, she has a valuable survival tool. Now if she can do all of that without becoming bitter, then she will grow up to be as wise and gracious as her mama. ; )

 

In closing: (((RobinHood)))

 

P.S. I haven't had time to read the other responses, so I hope I didn't duplicate someone else.

[Robin Hood]

general recreational summer league where results end at the end of the season or is this a USA swimming affiliated club or Y affiliated club.

 

I comanage a neighborhood summer league team. We had no official behavior policy in our league. We had a serious problem with a swimmer a few years ago and requested help from the board. They said we pretty much had free reign to handle it. So, we wrote our own policy and we laid out consequences for the behaviors. One of the consequences was the a parent/guardian had to be within 10 feet of the child at all times. So, during practice the parent had to pace the deck for an hour. I found these parents to have serious issues with admitting there was a real problem, but they were also desperate to keep their child in the activity (he'd already been banned from another sport league in our town). So the dad paced the deck--we did have to remind him some days but he did it for 2 summers. This consequence was used as a condition to return to the team after a week's suspension. (BTW, we have quite few scholarship swimmers, but the swimmer who forced our policy to be written wasn't on scholarship)

 

It sounds like you are a rec team and the board has no policies and wants to be "inclusive". Your particular situation may involve not only a scholarship, but a race factor, which further complicates everyone's effort to be pc and inclusive. Your team needs a behavioral policy that covers all types of interactions.

 

Your girls like swimming. What are your options to keep swimming if you leave the team. Is there a team nearby to join? I'd have a hard time leaving this were a neighborhood team which practiced at a pool we could walk to. If I have to drive, an extra couple of miles doesn't bother me.

 

If you leave, I'd tell the team pres why since she understands a bit of the situation and likes your girls. But I wouldn't tell everyone else. You could easily come off looking bad since finding fault with this child is not what the board is ready to do. Your absence will speak. Additionally, this girl will likely cause trouble for someone else. She's going to have to cause trouble for someone else before the board acts. Right now it's just one family upset. This girl will keep targeting your family because she can be the bully. Your leaving will force her to find a new target and that is when the powers that be realize the problem is the girl and the problem is big enough that it won't go away and must address it.

 

If you stay, but are very concerned, start keeping records. Stay miles away. Every time the girl approaches you record it. Record everything she says and who was near. have your girls report all interactions. If you are that concerned about the locker try to go with a buddy. Sounds silly, but find someone you can confide in on this problem who you can get to go through the locker room with you when you can go through casually other people.

 

It is a USA club team. We have USA sanctioned meets. Mean Girl is a scholarship swimmer. The Advocate is creating the problems by feeding Mean Girls the lies that she is using against us. Advocate cannot come up with money for her own kids, so they are also scholarship kids, but she does pound Main Street businesses and brings in big time $$$$ for the team. I think other parents understand how she is, but $$$$ says a lot. However, if swim team is going to be a safe haven for abused, potential juvenile deliquents, I don't want to be a part of it. They need to figure out what defines this team. I think our leaving is not the end of the matter.

[Robin Hood]

The thing that worries me is the advocate lying about you. That is pretty scary. If it weren't for that, I'd stick it out. However, given that, I think I'd cut my losses and get out of there before this blows up more. Very bizarre.

 

That is pretty much how we feel in a nutshell. Fight it out takes time. We want to enjoy our family.

[Robin Hood]

You might want to consider reporting her to authorities. Here's my reason:

 

She's older than your girls and has accosted them and also touched one inappropriately.

 

 

The inappropiate touching did not go that far. Dd found it uncomfortable and moved away, and I don't think Mean Girl meant to be sexual. She just was too close for comfort with hands sliding down to dds hips and some swiveling motion. I just suspect that her mom's boyfriends have touched her in a similar manner so she thinks it's ok. I do not. Even that is too far. She was also snapping dds bathing open expossing her bottom. It was done in the open and affectionately, but I consider that inappropriate. This is what I am being singled out for, telling Mean Girl to keep her hands off my dd. Advocate is protecting Mean Girl in this matter.