Family income poll

[SKL]

I think those quotes *do* put down people in lower incomes. You're accusing them of plotting violence against you because you have more. How can it NOT be a put down? Nobody is pandering to or encouraging jealously. You've clearly missed some threads, if you think I am doing that. I just don't think it's fair to tar everyone with the same brush and point fingers of "redistribution." *NOBODY* in the US does without government. NOBODY.

 

You must be reading too fast. First, I said that education encouraging anger, outrage, and violence is where SOME OF the jealousy reflex comes from. The only way to translate that into "I believe all poor people want to hurt me" is to inject a LOT of your own bias into my words.

 

As for the "redistribution" comment, you took that from my question wondering WHY people think money is something to compare and be jealous about - and I think that goes back to the encouragement/education of the attitude that if you have more, I deserve some of it. Redistribution benefits lots of people who are not on public assistance - like the 50% OF Americans who pay no taxes yet still receive services.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I think we say that because people who live with less automatically think that more money makes problems go away, or that more $ makes life easier. Which is actually showing what an idol money can be.

 

It doesn't. Your kid still going to jail is your kid still going to jail. Questioning your marriage, and health issues are still horrible. Money doesn't equal good and decent kids, a loving marriage, or the gift of health. It doesn't make you a happy person. I know many really rich people who are soul crushingly miserable that you could offer me millions and I wouldn't take their life.

 

I've lived on WIC and foodstamps. I know the difference. I'm happier now because *I* am more happy with myself now, my life, my children and my marriage. I've made huge internal and outward changes in the philosophy of our lives to make that happen, it had nothing to do with $, and everything to do with me.

 

I don't know. I really think that having to worry every month about how the rent/mortgage is going to get paid, healthful food is going to get put on the table, utilities are going to stay on, and doctor's visits are going to be covered must make a big difference in quality of life, no? And I think having the ability to eat well and go to the doctor when issues are small prevent those smaller issues from becoming really big ones.

 

Our situation has never been bad enough for us to be on assistance, but when DH was bringing in $35K a year, things were pretty dang bleak around here. And that was in addition to my own part-time income!

[justLisa]

I think we say that because people who live with less automatically think that more money makes problems go away, or that more $ makes life easier. Which is actually showing what an idol money can be.

 

It doesn't. Your kid still going to jail is your kid still going to jail. Questioning your marriage, and health issues are still horrible. Money doesn't equal good and decent kids, a loving marriage, or the gift of health. It doesn't make you a happy person. I know many really rich people who are soul crushingly miserable that you could offer me millions and I wouldn't take their life.

 

I've lived on WIC and foodstamps. I know the difference. I'm happier now because *I* am more happy with myself now, my life, my children and my marriage. I've made huge internal and outward changes in the philosophy of our lives to make that happen, it had nothing to do with $, and everything to do with me.

 

I wish everyone could just have your attitude. I don't discuss things like this because I would just be viewed as the greedy snoot and I am not.

 

We are not poor but trust me when I say DH came from far worse than anyone in this country could dream. I do not feel bad for one second for what I have, nor do I look to someone with more and wish I did.

 

We have worked hard to pay off our vehicles which we drive until death. We are frugal, help those in need, and live simply. There is so much greed in the world.

[Laura Corin]

I don't understand why some people who make less money, or are having hard times are so bitter and angry towards people who are not struggling. :confused:

 

I don't feel bitter and angry at others. I feel humiliated and that makes me lash out. It's not about others having things - I don't envy them. It's about me and my change of status; about the contrast with me before, not the contrast with others now. I know that it's not pretty.

 

Money is not just money. It's status. Status shouldn't matter to me, perhaps. But it does. And I feel humiliated.

 

I absolutely don't mind being frugal, not buying things, shopping at the cheapest shops. It's how I grew up and I'm fine with it.

 

But I'm forced to do it after living another life, and I find that humilating. And I lash out.

 

Laura

[Mrs Mungo]

:iagree: it's the attitude of the haves, as if the have-nots could have it all too if they would have followed their formula.

 

I agree that this is not always true and can be very difficult

 

You must be reading too fast.

 

So, if ALL of these people are misunderstanding you, the fault lies only in them?

 

First, I said that education encouraging anger, outrage, and violence is where SOME OF the jealousy reflex comes from. The only way to translate that into "I believe all poor people want to hurt me" is to inject a LOT of your own bias into my words.

 

I am rejecting all of these notions. I don't think education encourages anger, outrage or violence. I think that is an ABSURD claim, completely without merit. I think, in fact, that our education system promotes a false ideal of the American Dream that is not possible for many people for many different reasons. Poor people are made to feel that them being poor is completely and totally on them. Many of them feel too ashamed to even seek assistance to feed their kids.

 

As for the "redistribution" comment, you took that from my question wondering WHY people think money is something to compare and be jealous about - and I think that goes back to the encouragement/education of the attitude that if you have more, I deserve some of it. Redistribution benefits lots of people who are not on public assistance - like the 50% OF Americans who pay no taxes yet still receive services.

 

That's a lie perpetrated by many in the media. Now, if you said INCOME tax, then that would be technically true, but it would still only tell part of the story. Taxes (what you and others like to call "redistribution") benefit ALL Americans. ALL. They pay for our military, they support programs that benefit businesses large and small and yes, they partly go to support people who (for whatever reason) cannot fully support themselves or their families *at that moment*. But, that doesn't mean that such people have never contributed or won't contribute in the future. Many of them are receiving benefits from a system that they paid into for many years.

[justLisa]

So is it just not possible to have friends in a totally different "money status" or whatever you would call that? Because I don't really see money as defining someone's class so much.

 

I don't get along with many people in my exact area because they make a lot of money and are wasteful with life in general. But I would hate to think people making much less than we do are hating me behind my back.

 

Maybe this is why sometimes friendships don't work out for me. It sucks.

[Caitilin]

Not everyone who is struggling financially has made bad choices. :confused:

 

Exactly!

[Mrs Mungo]

So is it just not possible to have friends in a totally different "money status" or whatever you would call that? Because I don't really see money as defining someone's class so much.

 

I have friends of varying income levels. But, none of us are hating on each other about our status. I don't think they are trying to get their lazy, greedy, redistributing mitts on my money, and they don't think I'm lazing about my house in opulent indulgence.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

So is it just not possible to have friends in a totally different "money status" or whatever you would call that? Because I don't really see money as defining someone's class so much.

 

I don't get along with many people in my exact area because they make a lot of money and are wasteful with life in general. But I would hate to think people making much less than we do are hating me behind my back.

 

Maybe this is why sometimes friendships don't work out for me. It sucks.

 

Again, speaking for me personally, I don't hate anyone I feel is in a better financial place than we are. I don't feel animosity. I feel frustration--with my own choices in the past, with our situation as it stands now, with the fact that I feel like we're doing everything everyone says is the financially responsible stuff to do, and we're still slipping backward rather than getting ahead. I don't think anyone owes me anything or should be redistributing ANYTHING to me. So I'm not hating you behind your back! I'm stamping my feet like a little kid and grousing here in my own little house :lol:

[swellmomma]

Our dollar might be close to the same value here as in the US, but the money doesn't go as far. It cost MUCH more to feed and clothe a family here than it would in many of the states. Even within the states, someone might barely be making it in CA but be living very comfortably on the same amount in AZ. Personally I wish I could make the amount we make up here and live with it in AZ.:tongue_smilie:

 

:iagree:

[justLisa]

I have friends of varying income levels. But, none of us are hating on each other about our status. I don't think they are trying to get their lazy, greedy, redistributing mitts on my money, and they don't think I'm lazing about my house in opulent indulgence.

 

See I have many times accidentally found out people have made comments about me in this regard. It has ruined what I thought were friendships several times. I am the one with the big house, doesn't have to shop at the thrift store, get whatever I want. blah blah. Talk about humiliating.

[Kathryn]

I have friends of varying income levels. But, none of us are hating on each other about our status. I don't think they are trying to get their lazy, greedy, redistributing mitts on my money, and they don't think I'm lazing about my house in opulent indulgence.

 

:lol: :iagree:

 

Again, speaking for me personally, I don't hate anyone I feel is in a better financial place than we are. I don't feel animosity. I feel frustration--with my own choices in the past, with our situation as it stands now, with the fact that I feel like we're doing everything everyone says is the financially responsible stuff to do, and we're still slipping backward rather than getting ahead. I don't think anyone owes me anything or should be redistributing ANYTHING to me. So I'm not hating you behind your back! I'm stamping my feet like a little kid and grousing here in my own little house :lol:

 

:iagree: my money worries are about my own family and our circumstances, not about anyone else. I feel very fortunate for what we do have and we have never struggled like many even on this thread, but I'd still like to be in a much more secure place financially.

[ezrabean2005]

As for the "redistribution" comment, you took that from my question wondering WHY people think money is something to compare and be jealous about - and I think that goes back to the encouragement/education of the attitude that if you have more, I deserve some of it. Redistribution benefits lots of people who are not on public assistance - like the 50% OF Americans who pay no taxes yet still receive services.

 

We are on the very, very low end with our income. We are not "comfortable", but we are content. I know others who make more who are less content. That's a harder position to be in, I think.

 

Just because we make so much less doesn't mean that I want your income. I don't think that's how most people feel.

[Mrs Mungo]

See I have many times accidentally found out people have made comments about me in this regard. It has ruined what I thought were friendships several times. I am the one with the big house, doesn't have to shop at the thrift store, get whatever I want. blah blah. Talk about humiliating.

 

I had a friend recently talking to me about getting her stuff ready for this big sale that goes on in my area. I said something like, "wow, that's a lot of work." She said, "you probably just donate your stuff somewhere, huh?" I said, "yeah, it's true." But, I don't think *either* of us felt less than for the exchange.

 

DH and I have a LOT of demands on our time and energy due to his job (yes, it involves us both). It's not a better than/less than situation for me or the people who are friends with me.

[Impish]

So is it just not possible to have friends in a totally different "money status" or whatever you would call that? Because I don't really see money as defining someone's class so much.

 

I don't get along with many people in my exact area because they make a lot of money and are wasteful with life in general. But I would hate to think people making much less than we do are hating me behind my back.

 

Maybe this is why sometimes friendships don't work out for me. It sucks.

Honestly, I'd say, 'it depends'.

 

When Wolf and I were in a cold sweat just trying to keep rent pd, food on the table, and the lights on, it was very difficult for me to listen to a friend ramble on about her shopping trips, spending more than I could afford for groceries on a purse, etc.

 

she sent me a gift card for Xmas, w/instructions to use it to get myself MAC lipstick. I needed food more, and told her so. She got ticked that I would use the gift card for food rather than $$$ lipstick.

 

The friendship ended. Not over that particular issue, but overall, we just couldn't relate to ea other very well. She wanted to talk about issues w/interior decorating, shopping trips, new vehicles, buying a house, how much she was spending on the kids ea at Christmas, how her dh made (per wk) 4x what we were living on a mth...there was no common ground. I tried to stick to talking about the kids, parenting, etc, but it just didn't work. Just in two extremely different places in our lives.

[Mrs Mungo]

Honestly, I'd say, 'it depends'.

 

When Wolf and I were in a cold sweat just trying to keep rent pd, food on the table, and the lights on, it was very difficult for me to listen to a friend ramble on about her shopping trips, spending more than I could afford for groceries on a purse, etc.

 

she sent me a gift card for Xmas, w/instructions to use it to get myself MAC lipstick. I needed food more, and told her so. She got ticked that I would use the gift card for food rather than $$$ lipstick.

 

The friendship ended. Not over that particular issue, but overall, we just couldn't relate to ea other very well. She wanted to talk about issues w/interior decorating, shopping trips, new vehicles, buying a house, how much she was spending on the kids ea at Christmas, how her dh made (per wk) 4x what we were living on a mth...there was no common ground. I tried to stick to talking about the kids, parenting, etc, but it just didn't work. Just in two extremely different places in our lives.

 

I come from a working class background, so I probably have more in common with you than women like that, even though we are more in the income class of the other woman. KWIM?

 

edited to make more sense.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Mrs Mungo

[Dmmetler]

We're very fortunate-we're in a low COL level with a salary scale based on a higher one, so what is a mid-range salary for DH's industry ends up going farther.

[justLisa]

Honestly, I'd say, 'it depends'.

 

When Wolf and I were in a cold sweat just trying to keep rent pd, food on the table, and the lights on, it was very difficult for me to listen to a friend ramble on about her shopping trips, spending more than I could afford for groceries on a purse, etc.

 

she sent me a gift card for Xmas, w/instructions to use it to get myself MAC lipstick. I needed food more, and told her so. She got ticked that I would use the gift card for food rather than $$$ lipstick.

 

The friendship ended. Not over that particular issue, but overall, we just couldn't relate to ea other very well. She wanted to talk about issues w/interior decorating, shopping trips, new vehicles, buying a house, how much she was spending on the kids ea at Christmas, how her dh made (per wk) 4x what we were living on a mth...there was no common ground. I tried to stick to talking about the kids, parenting, etc, but it just didn't work. Just in two extremely different places in our lives.

 

Yeah, that is different. I don't buy expensive lipstick or anything like that. I don't really talk about spending stuff because I am frugal. I have had "friendships" that were just about common interest, and the kids, etc....but then I find out there is eye rolling and snickering going on when I am not there. It has happened when I tried to get friends together to quilt. I have a lot of fabric/supplies and tried to just share with friends. I tried to have a "raid my stash" kind of party and It turned in to gossip and I felt terrible. I knew they did not have a lot of extra money so I tried to just do something fun for holiday craft making together since I COULD buy the stuff.

 

Obviously I find the wrong people to be friends with, but it can be frustrating.

[Shellydon]

I'm baffled by the "tax" comments. Do you REALLY pay 28% of your income on taxes? Have you calculated it? Being in the 28% tax bracket doesn't mean you pay 28% of your income straight to the gov't. Subtracting out donations, deductions, house interest, we would have to pretty comfortable to pay much to the federal gov't. Our state and local taxes hit us much harder. Turbotax has this nice function where it tells you your effective tax rate :) Brownie

 

 

We REALLY lose right at 30% to the government, this is before property taxes in our state. REALLY.

[justLisa]

I come from a working class background, so I probably have more in common with you than women like that, even though we are more in the income class of the other woman. KWIM?

 

edited to make more sense.

 

SO do we. DH was born in a communist country and they escaped to Canada with literally nothing when he was a teen. In traveling he did not even go to school for 2 years while they were essentially hiding in another country. He graduated from one of the most reputable Universities with near 75,000 debt. My parents were just making it most of the time.

 

We make more money than a lot of people, but it does not define us in a way that is for some. We live in a more affluent area, but we are not the ones with brand new cars and fancy wardrobes. We live very simple.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

See I have many times accidentally found out people have made comments about me in this regard. It has ruined what I thought were friendships several times. I am the one with the big house, doesn't have to shop at the thrift store, get whatever I want. blah blah. Talk about humiliating.

 

That stinks :( But, IMO, those people are not truly friends in the first place.

[justamouse]

See I have many times accidentally found out people have made comments about me in this regard. It has ruined what I thought were friendships several times. I am the one with the big house, doesn't have to shop at the thrift store, get whatever I want. blah blah. Talk about humiliating.

 

That's the way I've been talked about, too. I've had envy and jealousy destroy so many friendships in my life. I remember a particularly hurtful comment over a *vacuum* that I had happened to leave out.

[KnitWit]

Yeah, that is different. I don't buy expensive lipstick or anything like that. I don't really talk about spending stuff because I am frugal. I have had "friendships" that were just about common interest, and the kids, etc....but then I find out there is eye rolling and snickering going on when I am not there. It has happened when I tried to get friends together to quilt. I have a lot of fabric/supplies and tried to just share with friends. I tried to have a "raid my stash" kind of party and It turned in to gossip and I felt terrible. I knew they did not have a lot of extra money so I tried to just do something fun for holiday craft making together since I COULD buy the stuff.

 

Obviously I find the wrong people to be friends with, but it can be frustrating.

 

It's true. Some people are just plain jealous and petty. That's really awful. :grouphug:

[Impish]

I come from a working class background, so I probably have more in common with you than women like that, even though we are more in the income class of the other woman. KWIM?

 

edited to make more sense.

Well, since I wanna be you when I grow up, that's good to hear! :D

Yeah, that is different. I don't buy expensive lipstick or anything like that. I don't really talk about spending stuff because I am frugal. I have had "friendships" that were just about common interest, and the kids, etc....but then I find out there is eye rolling and snickering going on when I am not there. It has happened when I tried to get friends together to quilt. I have a lot of fabric/supplies and tried to just share with friends. I tried to have a "raid my stash" kind of party and It turned in to gossip and I felt terrible. I knew they did not have a lot of extra money so I tried to just do something fun for holiday craft making together since I COULD buy the stuff.

 

Obviously I find the wrong people to be friends with, but it can be frustrating.

It wasn't the income disparity that was the issue. It was the inability/unwillingness to ignore $$ discussions and talk about anything else.

 

Talk to me about your kids. Pregnancy. Parenting. Weather. Marriage. Politics. Religion. Something other than shopping and interior decorating, investments, etc. I just genuinely would have 0 to contribute to those convos.

 

I have friends who are single moms and financially struggling. I have friends who are making several times over what Wolf and I life on. We get along great, enjoy our friendship hugely. There simply isn't a focus on income.

[BlsdMama]

Our dollar might be close to the same value here as in the US, but the money doesn't go as far. It cost MUCH more to feed and clothe a family here than it would in many of the states. Even within the states, someone might barely be making it in CA but be living very comfortably on the same amount in AZ. Personally I wish I could make the amount we make up here and live with it in AZ.:tongue_smilie:

 

This is true. However, we pay dearly for our medical care.

[justamouse]

I don't know. I really think that having to worry every month about how the rent/mortgage is going to get paid, healthful food is going to get put on the table, utilities are going to stay on, and doctor's visits are going to be covered must make a big difference in quality of life, no? And I think having the ability to eat well and go to the doctor when issues are small prevent those smaller issues from becoming really big ones.

 

Our situation has never been bad enough for us to be on assistance, but when DH was bringing in $35K a year, things were pretty dang bleak around here. And that was in addition to my own part-time income!

 

I'm quite a Pollyanna, I don't remember fretting over all of that. Even when I was homeless. I do remember reaching into an old pocket and finding $ and being so very happy I could fill up my tank to get to a job interview (where I met my Dh).

 

We've had years where we made 0 and had three years of no health insurance before the company started making enough to purchase it.

 

I have/had always thought it was going to get better.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I'm quite a Pollyanna, I don't remember fretting over all of that. Even when I was homeless. I do remember reaching into an old pocket and finding $ and being so very happy I could fill up my tank to get to a job interview (where I met my Dh).

 

We've had years where we made 0 and had three years of no health insurance before the company started making enough to purchase it.

 

I have/had always thought it was going to get better.

 

Ah, I see. I'm the "prep and plan for the very worst, and if something better happens, rejoice!" person :D I'm always expecting the worst. DH is always expecting the best though, so I guess we balance each other out!

[labst60]

Two years ago - we *really* paid 25.5% of our income BEFORE property taxes ($5800/year) and any sales tax we paid (?????).

 

That was AFTER deductions, exemptions, etc.

 

So we DID pay over 25% in INCOME TAX... so yeah, it frosts me when I hear that 50% of the country is paying NO income tax.....

 

We are not "weathly" by any means....

 

ETA: I didn't even want to look this year, so I have no idea. I'm guessing it went down some b/c we are in a different state/municipality with no local income tax (we paid both state and municipality income tax before) but our property taxes are a good bit higher here.

Edited August 30, 2012 by labst60
clairification

[justamouse]

Ah, I see. I'm the "prep and plan for the very worst, and if something better happens, rejoice!" person :D I'm always expecting the worst. DH is always expecting the best though, so I guess we balance each other out!

 

My husband is the pessimist. ;) My job is to reframe everything for him. :D BUT we both came into the marriage with nothing. Like, zero. Our wedding was in my parent's backyard, my dress was 25 dollars off the rack at Sears. We went on a weekend honeymoon to the shore and we've not had a vacation together since (and only two vacations in our 18 year marriage). So it wasn't like I married him and all of a sudden, finances were better, ya know?

 

I think also what made a difference, before I met my Dh, I was physically abused by a boyfriend and almost lost my life. That was a *very* crystalizing moment for me. Life is a gift. Every day you wake up breathing is a gift. I get frustrated, but I've never complained.

Edited August 30, 2012 by justamouse

[BlsdMama]

How relevant is it really?

 

In Iowa (home) my rent was over $1,000 per month less than it was when we lived in an area not terribly far from Portland, OR. (DH's salary would stay the same as would his medical benefits, premiums, etc.)

 

If we had two kids, we'd spend approximately $1,000 (or more) less on groceries.

 

True story... And neither would be impacted by income. But, can you imagine having $2K each month in jingle money. Yeah, me either. :glare: But I miss Iowa's COL. And I guess I'm keeping the children.....

Edited August 30, 2012 by BlsdMama

[justamouse]

And I guess I'm keeping the children.....

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[Lady Florida.]

 

Regarding these sorts of surveys: I think gross income says little. Some retired millionaires have less income than working people because they do not require the income stream. Net worth is more revealing.

 

:iagree: Very true.

 

I think it's more that many people who are making six-figure salaries often say, "Well, we're struggling too, we aren't any better off in the end." <snip> Because no matter how much you pay in taxes or how much your mortgage payment is, it IS much harder to live on $20,000 a year than $200,000, no matter where you live.

 

This. In a conversation IRL a few years ago, some of us were discussing growing up poor. I mentioned my single mother working 2 and 3 jobs (as a waitress) to keep food on the table and a roof over our heads. One of the other people in the conversation said, "Oh, I know what it's like to grow up poor. My mother had to work 2 jobs just so we could have dance lessons." Um, no. That's not growing up poor no matter how you frame it.

 

Because I don't really see money as defining someone's class so much.

 

 

Words of wisdom from my above mentioned single mom: "You don't have to have money to have class." One of the best lessons she taught me.

 

Well, since I wanna be you when I grow up, that's good to hear! :D

 

 

[/b]

 

We all want to be Mrs. Mungo when we grow up. And I'm willing to bet I'm older than her. :lol:

[ebrindam]

Aw...but their cost of living area is soooo high! I know, I know, I'm going to hel...:angelsad2:

 

Our COL isn't super high (we are in north east)...and I don't see anyone complaining who is in the highest bracket. DH works hard for what we have...there's no need to apologize for that, is there?

[Geo]

We pay about the same tax rate. We are also paying $1,500 a month for health insurance. :confused: We pay so much for health insurance that we can hardly afford to go to the doctor.

 

Dh is disabled and on medicare (not medicaid)...and he can't afford to go to the Dr....seriously. He can't get his pain medication because it requires that he go to the Dr. every month for the controlled drug prescription...so he's goes without. However, the two anti-depressants he takes for dealing with chronic pain are easily and cheaply obtained without return Dr. visits, so he lives on those. Health care is indeed in crisis.

[butterflymommy]

Like most things it comes down to perspective. We've experienced the gamut from living at or below poverty line to now being in the higher tax bracket. I think there is something to be said for "Mo money, mo problems." The higher up your climb the farther the fall down. When we were at poverty level, I didn't worry about private school because... there was no private school in our lives. I didn't worry about heating a huge house because we were living in a glorified shack. I didn't worry about health coverage because we qualified for heavily subsidized state insurance. I didn't worry about losing everything because there was nothing to lose. I could barely care less about my own standard of living but what frightens me is that we've let our kids get accustomed to a fairly solid middle class standard of living... and the thought of their losing that IS scary even to my frugal, non-materialist mind.

 

That being said I'm very grateful for what we have.... to this day I want to kiss my washing machine every time I put a load in, because I'm not having to haul it to the laundromat. I don't think a night goes by where my head hits the pillow without my being thankful for having a pillow to hit.

[Crimson Wife]

I didn't vote because our income has been very up-and-down over the past 5 years.

 

In good years, it has been enough to allow us to pay off DH's grad school loans, save for a down payment on a house, and build (or re-build) a rainy day fund. In bad years, we have had to get by on that rainy day fund so that we don't lose our house.

 

Cost-of-living and taxes are insanely high here in the San Francisco Bay Area. We'd like to move somewhere cheaper but unfortunately jobs in my DH's industry are concentrated in a few geographic locations and those also tend to be insanely expensive (like Manhattan). He was in discussions at one point for a job in Texas that would've paid about half of his previous salary but we calculated that the cheaper cost-of-living and lower taxes would've resulted in a big boost in our purchasing power. He didn't wind up getting that particular position, however. :(

[Crimson Wife]

But there are huge honking swaths of population in those cities trying to make it by on 40K and under on their own. Therefore, when we see statements which indicate that someone making 100K, 200K etc. need to because of cost of living in that city or that they are barely scraping by at these incomes, what does that say about the chunk of population in those lower brackets?

 

I just heard on the local news yesterday a story about 17 adults paying $150/mo each to share 3 BR apartment. *THAT* is how low-income folks can manage to live here.

 

So yes, in order to have any sort of normal housing situation, it *DOES* take a six-figure income!

[Laura Corin]

 

So yes, in order to have any sort of normal housing situation, it *DOES* take a six-figure income!

 

The graphic at the bottom tells the story.

 

Laura

[Geo]

Our COL isn't super high (we are in north east)...and I don't see anyone complaining who is in the highest bracket. DH works hard for what we have...there's no need to apologize for that, is there?

 

"Cost of living area" complaints are early on in the thread. If you didn't complain, then obviously I wasn't talking to you. I didn't ask anyone to apologize...I just mocked their whining...but don't worry, I'll pay for my remarks one way or the other. Besides, lower income earners work hard too ya' know. Some even become disabled from it...like dh.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Geo

[ebrindam]

"Cost of living area" complaints are early on in the thread. If you didn't complain, then obviously I wasn't talking to you. I didn't ask anyone to apologize...just mocked their whining...but don't worry, I'll pay for my remarks one way or the other.

 

Sorry I went back and re-read. There was some whining. :-)

[Crimson Wife]

I'm baffled by the "tax" comments. Do you REALLY pay 28% of your income on taxes? Have you calculated it? Being in the 28% tax bracket doesn't mean you pay 28% of your income straight to the gov't. Subtracting out donations, deductions, house interest, we would have to pretty comfortable to pay much to the federal gov't.

 

AMT gets rid of most of these deductions and credits. In good years, we get socked huge amounts as a result of the AMT. The really-annoying thing is that when the AMT was first instituted back in the 1960's, it was designed to force millionaires (in 1960's dollars so multi-millionaires in current dollars) to pay something in taxes. We are *FAR* from earning a seven figure income yet we still frequently get walloped by the AMT. :glare:

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

The graphic at the bottom tells the story.

 

Laura

 

But (to paraphrase Eddie Izzard) haven't you all got a castle each over there?!

 

:tongue_smilie:

[Laura Corin]

But (to paraphrase Eddie Izzard) haven't you all got a castle each over there?!

 

:tongue_smilie:

 

We go and gawp at the castles, then go home to our shoeboxes.

 

Laura

[Crimson Wife]

The graphic at the bottom tells the story.

 

Laura

 

According to my calculations, 76 sq. meters would be ~818 sq. ft. 800 sq. ft. 2BR apartments in my area are running around $1750-$1900/mo. if Craig's List is to be believed. That would require a fairly hefty take-home income to afford.

[2squared]

I don't know. I really think that having to worry every month about how the rent/mortgage is going to get paid, healthful food is going to get put on the table, utilities are going to stay on, and doctor's visits are going to be covered must make a big difference in quality of life, no? And I think having the ability to eat well and go to the doctor when issues are small prevent those smaller issues from becoming really big ones.

 

Our situation has never been bad enough for us to be on assistance, but when DH was bringing in $35K a year, things were pretty dang bleak around here. And that was in addition to my own part-time income!

 

:iagree: Our income isn't stretching as far as it used to, and I feel like we are clawing to make forward progress. My stress, and the stress on our marriage, grows expoentially the more we have to stretch our income. We ran into a crappy property dispute at the beginning of the year and used all our emergency funds to pay our way out of it. I think I had a mental breakdown for a few days knowing that our cushion against the outside world was gone. I know I had thoughts of leaving dh over the entire ordeal. It was awful.

I can't imagine how hard it would be for me if we were struggling to buy food every month.

 

I have immense admiration for those of you who are surviving on low incomes. I don't know how you do it with your sanity intact.

[Laura Corin]

According to my calculations, 76 sq. meters would be ~818 sq. ft. 800 sq. ft. 2BR apartments in my area are running around $1750-$1900/mo. if Craig's List is to be believed. That would require a fairly hefty take-home income to afford.

 

The average room size is given as 16 square metres, so that 76 square metres is a family home with three bedrooms, a family room/diner/kitchen and a bathroom. This is not young couple housing, it's family two-income (usually) accommodation. And yes, it costs a bomb.

 

Laura

[elegantlion]

I don't know how you do it with your sanity intact.

 

Sometimes we don't. Dh's turn was last year, this year it's mine. I'm only .025 kidding. But even if you are barely holding on to your sanity the electric bill still needs to be paid. It becomes a very numbing lifestyle in many ways.

 

We are blessed, we made some well-timed choices right before the bottom fell out.

[Dinsfamily]

I just heard on the local news yesterday a story about 17 adults paying $150/mo each to share 3 BR apartment. *THAT* is how low-income folks can manage to live here.

 

So yes, in order to have any sort of normal housing situation, it *DOES* take a six-figure income!

 

:iagree: It was crazy to be a renter there. I'm sure housing has come down a little since we left in 2007, but our landlords still sold our 1300 sq ft rental for a doozy after the market crashed. Everytime they would approach us about buying, I'd say, "If I'm spending that kind of money on a house, it should be a mansion." We have several friends in Manhattan so I couldn't complain too much about our monthly rent payment.

 

When we were looking for homes here in San Antonio, I was convinced that there had to be something wrong with all of them...they were just so stinkin' cheap and big.

[Sun]

"Cost of living area" complaints are early on in the thread. If you didn't complain, then obviously I wasn't talking to you. I didn't ask anyone to apologize...I just mocked their whining...but don't worry, I'll pay for my remarks one way or the other. Besides, lower income earners work hard too ya' know. Some even become disabled from it...like dh.

 

I didn't see the COL comments (including mine) as complaints. My comments were simply an acknowledgement that any poll is very restricted in what it can ask and that it necessarily way over-simplifies situations. COL is an example of that. My household income would go a lot farther in many other places, but in those other places, DH might not earn that same salary.

 

I find that in my life, homeschooling complicates the issues of money and friendship. I have one longtime friend who is very resentful of our choice to homeschool. I try not to discuss it because I know the resentment comes from her own wish to be able to stay home with her kids. It's not all bon-bons and roses at my house, but for my friend, being able to afford to lose one parent's full-time income to homeschool is unimaginable, which makes my situation seem very rosy to her. I've been in her shoes, and I completely understand her resentment (of the situation, not of me). Still, it makes it awkward on both sides sometimes. We've been friends long enough that we'll survive this phase, but it was this relationship's challenges that inspired me to post the poll.

 

I'm kind of rambling and don't know how much sense that made to anyone else. Sorry!

[Crimson Wife]

It was crazy to be a renter there. I'm sure housing has come down a little since we left in 2007,

 

Home prices have come down, but rents are actually higher. We could now rent out our home for more than the total monthly mortgage + property tax payment to purchase it at its current value. That was not the case when we bought in 2009 (and even that was at quite a bit off its peak). At that time, it was cheaper to rent than buy, but now it's the opposite. The hard part is having the 20% down payment, sterling credit, and stable employment situation to qualify for a mortgage these days.