Christians have you ever doubted your faith?

[ShannonS]

I go back to this article often, it is one of my absolute favorites. The link is not available, so I will just cut and paste.

 

An Appreciation for Doubt

Wonder, glory of mystery get swept aside by self-righteousness

By Pastor Peter W. Marty, pastor of St. Paul Lutheran Church, Davenport, Iowa. Pastor Marty

lectures and writes frequently on faith matters.

 

Taken from "The Lutheran" magazine, September 2010

 

Who doesn't love the experience of having confident faith? There is something thrilling about strapping oneself to a way of life that Jesus considers powerfully Godcentered. But Lutheran Christians are at their best when they prize humility more than certainty. Our duty is not to claim to know more than we do. If anything, we have a responsibility to learn how to make wise choices without always needing to be entirely sure.

 

A popular myth in our day elevates absolute certainty in spiritual matters as the goal to which we all should aspire. Yet certainty becomes a small "g" god when it turns ideological. It assumes incredibly seductive powers. Devout believers start becoming obsessed with being right. They know the precise purposes of God. They are absolutely sure that God dislikes the exact same people and things they do. There is little question of who wins the approval of God and who does not.

 

This is not a variety of believing around which to fashion a life. It leaves love on the periphery. It voids the surprise that deserves to go with faith. If absolute certainty in knowing the mind of God is imperative, the journey of faith quickly becomes impoverished. All of the incomprehensibles — the unanswerable questions — will have to be ignored or short-changed. The wonder and glory of mystery will have to be shelved. God will look more domesticated than our favorite pet.

 

Novelist Marilynne Robinson speaks of cultivating a degree of uncertainty in her writing, considering it a form of reverence. "There is something about certainty that makes Christianity very un-Christian," she writes.

 

Perhaps it is the absence of spiritual modesty, our claiming to know more than we really do. Or maybe it is a misunderstanding of the place of doubt.

 

The opposite of faith isn't doubt — it's certainty. Doubt is really quite beautiful. For too long we have been denying doubt the respect it deserves. Theologian Frederick Buechner once called it the "ants in the pants of faith." How true. It keeps us on our toes. It rescues us from the excesses of certainty. "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble," Mark Twain said one time. "It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

 

At the very end of Matthew's Gospel account, Jesus commissions his disciples to head out into the world and bear witness to the truth and power of God. Most of us know his section of Scripture by the oft-repeated line: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations ..." (28:19). It's a culminating moment in the Gospel when the nowresurrected Christ turns over his ministry to the now-seasoned disciples.

 

Matthew writes of the moment: "When they saw [Jesus], they worshiped him; but some doubted" (28:17).

 

This is the way most Bibles translate the experience. The problem, as New Testament professor Mark Allan Powell points out, is that the word "some" doesn't appear in Greek manuscripts. Translators have inserted the idea that some doubted, evidently to satisfy their own theology and suggest that doubt is somehow the opposite of faith or worship.

 

Nothing could be further from the truth. The disciples worshiped and they doubted. Period. All of them. Matthew never suggests that the disciples were free of doubt or that they should have been. Doubt intersects with our faith lives in profound ways, ensuring that we don't become too certain that we are right.

 

Few things seem to have boiled the blood of Jesus more than religious people who behaved as if they knew all things. Self-righteousness is the fancy name for such behavior. Jesus railed against any number of supremely religious people who knew how to tithe every spice in their cupboard but had no clue how to love their neighbor.

 

In our day, the most thoughtful forms of faith will always point toward the truth, without claiming to possess it entirely. Integrity in our personal lives and civility in our congregations will grow wherever we figure out that loving others is more important than being right. Isn't that one of the gifts of love — to bring the arrogance of certainty to its knees?

[JenniferB]

Yes, I went through about two to three years of questioning and doubt. It all started with my husband. He began to study world history and we would lay up at night and talk about his studies. He started to question the nature of the Bible and the age of the universe. He also started displaying a bitterness for certain modern evangelical perspectives on Christianity, which rubbed off on me. My doubts and questions went in a different direction and it came to a peak when I found myself unable to pick up a Christian book or the Bible without frustration and a mountain of questions that had no answers.

 

I stopped reading all Christian books for a while, and distancing myself from programs and study groups at church. I only went to church on Sundays and for about 3 years I didn't even sit in the whole service, mostly because our baby was one of *those* babies who wouldn't sit still in church and wouldn't go to the nursery. I look back and I recognize that this really helped me to step back and ask some important questions, such as "what is church, what is the purpose of the Bible, who really knows what the Bible means, who has the authority to tell me what the Bible means, can I trust all these Christian books and study guides and programs, etc.?"

 

Other more personal questions going on in my heart, but not quite to the surface yet (I realized they were in my heart later, but they were more subconscious at the time) were, "am I growing as a Christian, what is prayer and am I doing it, why do we pray, what is all that stuff Jesus says about not really knowing him?" etc.

 

I was so kerbobbled about these things that one day I posted on this forum and the title of my thread was, "Help, I think I'm a post-evangelical. What do I do now?" I heard that term, "post-evangelical," on a few blogs I was reading and I thought the term described where I was at in my faith walk. However, I had no idea what can of worms I was about to open with the posting of that thread. I received 24 pages of replies when all was said and done! There was an amazing response of concern, care, sharing, etc. The responses that stood out to me the most were the ones from the Orthodox Christians. They were so gentle, kind, and strangely profound. They displayed a sort of knowledge and spirit that seemed deep and grounded, and their questions to me and answers spoke to me in a satisfying way.

 

So, as a family we were heading out on a road trip to Disneyland in Anaheim from the Puget Sound in Washington just after I posted that thread. When we got to that really straight, flat stretch in central California I decided to check in on my thread, and check out a few resources suggested. One of the suggestions was Ancient Faith Radio. So, I decided to dial up Ancient Faith Radio on my phone and listen to a podcast. Well, one podcast led to another and more and more podcasts all the way back from Disneyland to Seattle and by the time we made it back home I was convinced that we should convert to Orthodox Christianity. It may seem rash, and it was now that I look back ;), but really I believe God was preparing dh and I for that moment for the previous few years. It was quite a rocky road to conversion, but almost a year and a half later we were baptized and chrismated, all but our oldest daughter.

 

Being an Orthodox Christian solves so many problems for me, but also creates so many new ones, mostly a keen awareness of my need for repentance. The struggle is harder now, but it's a *good* hard. I can feel it deep in my soul. A few Sundays ago in church the Gospel message was the story about a blind man who wanted to be healed, and Jesus asked him, "Do you believe that *I* can do this?" The man said, "Yea Lord, I believe." Then Jesus healed him. This spoke to my spiritual condition so strongly that I hold onto it daily whenever I feel like I'm a hopeless case (which is often). I remember that it's in His strength that I am being healed, I can't do it alone, and I can't do it by my strength, but I believe that *He* can do this!

 

I'm open to sharing more if you want to PM me. Please forgive me if I hogged too many internet waves with my long response. Hugs and prayers.

Edited August 28, 2012 by JenniferB

[ShannonS]

If I really believed what God teaches, really really believed it (not just with my understanding, but with my being, too), I'd be humble, giving, loving, gentle, content, full of self-control, I wouldn't worry, etc. This has been one of the gifts the church has given ~ the beginning of the ability to see where things really stand. You'd think more doubt would be suffocating, but a complementary gift of the church is giving us a way to be honest with ourselves, and then to confess our doubts, to be forgiven and to move on again. It's been freeing actually, and I now know that it's okay to "fall" (into doubt, in to any sin), as long as I confess it, get up again and keep going.

 

I love this observation.

[Quiver0f10]

Sure. But what I've found is that God doesn't want us to have blind faith. Blind faith is foolish faith. Our faith is supposed to be build on what God said, including his promises, which we find in the scriptures. If our faith in things is based on 'how we feel' about something, rather than what scripture actually says, we have blind faith.

 

That's why scripture says things like "come, let us reason together, saith the Lord" and "my people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge".

 

Usually I find if my faith wavers on something, I need to study and see what God actually has told us on whatever topic that may be. When I discover the 'rock' to build my faith on, it doesn't waver because it's foundation is no longer 'shifting sand.'

 

I know I have been looking to my feelings way too much. It doesn't matter how I feel. The truth matters. It's believing that in the midst of fear and anxiety that is killing me.

[Quiver0f10]

When I feel like this, the only thing that helps me is to read God's Word; anywhere - any page will do; Psalms where David was in a cave and battling; Job where God had forgotten him. There's something about the truth that cuts through all the lies we believe. My faith was so low at one point that I had told God that I had to leave Him, Christianity just wasn't working for me. And you know what? He held me, He never let me go, He was so gentle; he put people in my path that spoke to my heart in a way I could only just know He had sent them. Some I only realised later. I don't know why you are battling; but I know it's such a dreadful place to be. And I would rather die than go back to believing there is no God, or that He doesn't see and hold my every moment. Otherwise what's the point of it all? It sounds like you really need a prayer partner or someone to hold your hand through this, is there someone you can go to? I have prayed for your peace and clarity and hope.

 

My pastor has been wonderful and meets with me regularly. It definitely helps.

 

Juts knowing that others have gone through this and that they are praying for me is a huge comfort.

[Quiver0f10]

Do you have to put this much pressure on yourself to believe *right now*?

 

There is no finish line. You're in no rush. :grouphug:

 

I know. My pastor suggested I just rest and let it be for now. I am trying but the anxiety won't let me rest.

[Quiver0f10]

Elijah had doubt. John the Baptist had doubt. Paul Bunyan's Pilgrim got trapped in Doubting Castle (just learned that, thank you, TWEM!).

 

I was raised in an evangelical Christian family, and experienced significant doubt as I became an emotional adult.

 

FWIW, I am still a Christian in part because of several times God has unmistakably corrected my heart. My dad uses the phrase, "Thank you for touching our hearts." Never mind that - I know He's real - He's smacked me upside the head! :D But for sin, not for doubting.

 

There's a neat website by a ministry called Credo House in Oklahoma City. It's aimed at doubt, and helping people "believe more today than yesterday". I haven't looked over ALL their stuff, but I listened to a neat podcast of last week's sermon and it was on John the Baptist's doubt. I hope this link works.

 

http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2012/08/john-the-baptist-doubt-and-my-three-days-as-an-atheist/

 

 

Thank you for the link!

[Jean in Newcastle]

I know. My pastor suggested I just rest and let it be for now. I am trying but the anxiety won't let me rest.

 

One thing I've done is to just concentrate on my relationship with God. Not my feelings about God. But relying on who I know He is. It has allowed me to rest and allow Him to work in me rather than me trying to engineer the process.

[Quiver0f10]

Of course! I love what Tim Keller says about doubt being essential to faith. Maybe this will help if you have time to read: http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2012/08/27/the-faith-to-doubt-christianity/

 

Thank you!

[Joanne]

I probably don't qualify per your OP, and should start my own thread. :)

 

But I have been questioning and doubting for YEARS. More deeply recently.

 

I haven't left belief/faith, but I have left Christianity. I know this is considered leaving faith by many readers here.

[munashe]

I do yo-yo in my heart at times. I find my thoughts contradicting with my beliefs at times.

 

I happen to have developed an interest in feminism and I can't help wonder if Christianity and Feminism can ever have some common ground. There are certain things that feminist believe in like abortion that I don't but the concept of advancement of women interest me. I happen to think of it like supporting a political party, you may support a party but may not agree with them 100%

 

I am still searching for more answers but I too certainly find myself doubting the credibility of my faith on some odd occasions. I don't think I ever really doubt that God exist but man's interpretation of the bible is what I have problems with. You find each and every church has its own dogmas and its these dogmas that I loath about my faith.

Edited August 28, 2012 by munashe

[Quiver0f10]

Thank you! I loved this!

 

I go back to this article often, it is one of my absolute favorites. The link is not available, so I will just cut and paste.

 

 

An Appreciation for Doubt

 

 

Wonder, glory of mystery get swept aside by self-righteousness

 

By Pastor Peter W. Marty, pastor of St. Paul Lutheran Church, Davenport, Iowa. Pastor Marty

 

lectures and writes frequently on faith matters.

 

 

 

Taken from "The Lutheran" magazine, September 2010

 

 

 

Who doesn't love the experience of having confident faith? There is something thrilling about strapping oneself to a way of life that Jesus considers powerfully Godcentered. But Lutheran Christians are at their best when they prize humility more than certainty. Our duty is not to claim to know more than we do. If anything, we have a responsibility to learn how to make wise choices without always needing to be entirely sure.

 

 

 

A popular myth in our day elevates absolute certainty in spiritual matters as the goal to which we all should aspire. Yet certainty becomes a small "g" god when it turns ideological. It assumes incredibly seductive powers. Devout believers start becoming obsessed with being right. They know the precise purposes of God. They are absolutely sure that God dislikes the exact same people and things they do. There is little question of who wins the approval of God and who does not.

 

 

 

This is not a variety of believing around which to fashion a life. It leaves love on the periphery. It voids the surprise that deserves to go with faith. If absolute certainty in knowing the mind of God is imperative, the journey of faith quickly becomes impoverished. All of the incomprehensibles — the unanswerable questions — will have to be ignored or short-changed. The wonder and glory of mystery will have to be shelved. God will look more domesticated than our favorite pet.

 

 

 

Novelist Marilynne Robinson speaks of cultivating a degree of uncertainty in her writing, considering it a form of reverence. "There is something about certainty that makes Christianity very un-Christian," she writes.

 

 

 

Perhaps it is the absence of spiritual modesty, our claiming to know more than we really do. Or maybe it is a misunderstanding of the place of doubt.

 

 

 

The opposite of faith isn't doubt — it's certainty. Doubt is really quite beautiful. For too long we have been denying doubt the respect it deserves. Theologian Frederick Buechner once called it the "ants in the pants of faith." How true. It keeps us on our toes. It rescues us from the excesses of certainty. "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble," Mark Twain said one time. "It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

 

 

 

At the very end of Matthew's Gospel account, Jesus commissions his disciples to head out into the world and bear witness to the truth and power of God. Most of us know his section of Scripture by the oft-repeated line: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations ..." (28:19). It's a culminating moment in the Gospel when the nowresurrected Christ turns over his ministry to the now-seasoned disciples.

 

 

 

Matthew writes of the moment: "When they saw [Jesus], they worshiped him; but some doubted" (28:17).

 

 

 

This is the way most Bibles translate the experience. The problem, as New Testament professor Mark Allan Powell points out, is that the word "some" doesn't appear in Greek manuscripts. Translators have inserted the idea that some doubted, evidently to satisfy their own theology and suggest that doubt is somehow the opposite of faith or worship.

 

 

 

Nothing could be further from the truth. The disciples worshiped and they doubted. Period. All of them. Matthew never suggests that the disciples were free of doubt or that they should have been. Doubt intersects with our faith lives in profound ways, ensuring that we don't become too certain that we are right.

 

 

 

Few things seem to have boiled the blood of Jesus more than religious people who behaved as if they knew all things. Self-righteousness is the fancy name for such behavior. Jesus railed against any number of supremely religious people who knew how to tithe every spice in their cupboard but had no clue how to love their neighbor.

 

 

 

In our day, the most thoughtful forms of faith will always point toward the truth, without claiming to possess it entirely. Integrity in our personal lives and civility in our congregations will grow wherever we figure out that loving others is more important than being right. Isn't that one of the gifts of love — to bring the arrogance of certainty to its knees?

 

[dangermom]

Certainly. I do not know if I am the sort of person who believes easily. :001_smile: But, when I have doubted, it has often been because I wasn't paying enough attention to spiritual matters and kind of slacking. Because I am a reader, I usually find that books help me a lot--scripture of course, but also C. S. Lewis or other authors from my own denomination. There is something about The Screwtape Letters, how so many human flaws are described, that always hits me at home and makes me realize where the truth is.

 

For me, it sometimes seems like not believing would be the easier way. That doesn't make it true, though--the truth is that God is.

[Carol in Cal.]

 

I haven't left belief/faith, but I have left Christianity. I know this is considered leaving faith by many readers here.

 

I'm really sorry to hear this, Joanne.

[Quiver0f10]

Thank you all so much! :grouphug: Your posts and prayers are a comfort to me. I didn't reply to each and every one, but I have read them all and will read them again and again as I go through this.

[Lisbeth]

There have been times that I have doubted the divinity of Christ, but I sustained by being grateful for the change he made in the world (along with the Buddha) by advocating empathy, helping each other, and the like...away from the Roman gladiator for sport, laughing at suffering ethos, as a great man.

 

This is NOT a dig on any particular religion, but I did not truly feel the divinity of Christ personally until I converted to LDS. I was Catholic before that. This is no way an indictment of Catholics. Love Catholics. I personally just never felt the spirit in my particular parish.

[FairyMom]

I've stayed out of this because I struggled, as you have, yet I am no longer a believer; but I have felt for you all day, Jean. I just want you to know that I have been where you are and even though my outcome may be different from yours, I just wanted to offer you a simple :grouphug:. It's a tough spot to be in. May you find peace in your truth, whatever that may be.

[Katy]

praying for you

Edited August 31, 2012 by Katy

[Dory]

I've stayed away from this thread for awhile because although I doubt and struggle with it, I didn't know if I would be the best person to say anything. I'll add my little bit though. I spent some time studying the the trustability (yes I'm making up words) of scripture and I believe the Bible to be true. Unfortunately my own life doesn't really match up and I struggle with understanding why things are the way they are and where God is in the here and now. I only go to church every once in awhile as I've started to hate being around the christian community. They have a way of tearing apart anyone who's hurting. I have spent a lot of time screaming at God, but I haven't let him go. He can handle it. I figure so long as there's still some feeling there then it's worth me fighting to figure it out.

[Katy]

x

Edited August 31, 2012 by Katy

[Liz CA]

Yes, I think all Christians at one time or another have doubted. I read in Ruth Bell Graham's book (Billy Graham's wife) that she doubted and argued with her college roommates. Faith, especially if one comes from a family of faith and / or raised in the church, needs to be one's own. There comes a time when we have to reconfigure what we believe - not what grandma and dad believed. Through such exploring and testing and searching often emerges a unique faith - one's own. :001_smile:

[MissKNG]

No, I have never doubted my faith in my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Ever.

Worried about stuff, yes. But never doubted Him.

Edited August 30, 2012 by MissKNG

[scrapbookbuzz]

Absolutely. And then, when a problem large or small comes up and I find myself praying for help, confident God is listening, I know my soul doesn't really have any doubts at all. Doubt can be a time for refining and focusing on the essentials of your faith. An unexamined faith can be dangerous.

 

:iagree: I think it's natural of our sinful human nature to question, especially of those things concerning eternity. We should always be ready to give an answer for what we believe. And I think part of the journey to being prepared with an answer is to doubt/question. But the point is to not let yourself be stuck in the doubting/questioning phase. LEARN something from it and make a decision. HTH.

[Michelle My Bell]

I haven't read anyones responses. No I have never doubted my faith on my own. My ex did everything he could to make me doubt it and it did shake me up and make me feel worthless at times. Now that we are no longer, I am growing back into my faith and loving it.

[Quiver0f10]

Those of you who are praying for me please continue. I am struggling.

[HappyCrazyMama]

:grouphug:

[Joanne]

Those of you who are praying for me please continue. I am struggling.

 

Look, if Jesus/God exists in a Christian way, He understands you. He does not condemn, reject, or scorn you. If he DOES exists as Christians assert, you're doubt and struggle are known to him, and he'll hold you in his (spiritual) hands until you've come out of this.

 

If he doesn't exist, or doesn't exist in this manner, it won't matter.

 

Don't let the doubt bring you down. :grouphug::grouphug:

[8circles]

Look, if Jesus/God exists in a Christian way, He understands you. He does not condemn, reject, or scorn you. If he DOES exists as Christians assert, you're doubt and struggle are known to him, and he'll hold you in his (spiritual) hands until you've come out of this.

 

If he doesn't exist, or doesn't exist in this manner, it won't matter.

 

Don't let the doubt bring you down. :grouphug::grouphug:

 

:iagree::grouphug:

 

Praying for you.

[JenniferB]

Those of you who are praying for me please continue. I am struggling.

 

Praying.

[Juniper]

Those of you who are praying for me please continue. I am struggling.

 

What is the worst thing that is going to happen if you lay down the struggle for a bit? Not an angry turn your back, but a gentle shelving it until further revelation. In essence leaving it with God...if he exists. :)

 

 

Or for another illustration: Walk out of the room that is containing the turmoil..it might be a room labeled Christianity, but keep the door open just enough to see inside.

 

Give yourself time.:grouphug:

[UnsinkableKristen]

What is the worst thing that is going to happen if you lay down the struggle for a bit? Not an angry turn your back, but a gentle shelving it until further revelation. In essence leaving it with God...if he exists. :)

 

 

Or for another illustration: Walk out of the room that is containing the turmoil..it might be a room labeled Christianity, but keep the door open just enough to see inside.

 

Give yourself time.:grouphug:

 

:iagree:

 

Yes, I have doubted and questioned. I believe that we are created to question. That questioning is a natural (and purposeful) part of being human. To me, that means that there are answers out there for us to KNOW. To know, we must question.

 

I believe that we question what we know (or think we know) about God and that the searching for truth drives us closer to Him. But part of that is knowing that you won't know everything right away. And for me, it meant understanding that there are some things that God sees as absolutes and that those are far FAR fewer than I thought they were.

 

Often I confuse God & my faith in Him with Religion (and with my own denomination).

 

 

Question in peace. Search knowing that He created you with the ability to reason. :grouphug:

[Jpoy85]

yes, L had some serious health issues and i doubted everything in my life. I found God again (i didnt leave, i just pushed him and everything else away) and am a different person.

[Rosie_0801]

Look, if Jesus/God exists in a Christian way, He understands you. He does not condemn, reject, or scorn you. If he DOES exists as Christians assert, you're doubt and struggle are known to him, and he'll hold you in his (spiritual) hands until you've come out of this.

 

If he doesn't exist, or doesn't exist in this manner, it won't matter.

 

Don't let the doubt bring you down. :grouphug::grouphug:

 

:iagree: I'm not Christian either, but you have my best wishes. The truth will be healthy and if you don't feel healthy with what you've got, you haven't found truth yet. That's stressful, but the stress isn't as good as it gets and that's a relief!

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

Rosie

[Quiver0f10]

What is the worst thing that is going to happen if you lay down the struggle for a bit? Not an angry turn your back, but a gentle shelving it until further revelation. In essence leaving it with God...if he exists. :)

 

 

Or for another illustration: Walk out of the room that is containing the turmoil..it might be a room labeled Christianity, but keep the door open just enough to see inside.

 

Give yourself time.:grouphug:

 

I wish I could but my mind won't allow me to. I am in such turmoil that I can't seem to let it go. I understand what you're saying though.

[Carol in Cal.]

I wish I could but my mind won't allow me to. I am in such turmoil that I can't seem to let it go. I understand what you're saying though.

 

Jean, How about this.

Our faith is not in faith.

It is in God.

Focus on God, and don't overthink faith at the moment.

Pray, praise, repent, and lather, rinse, repeat.

Know that many are praying for you as well.

 

((Jean))

[Juniper]

I wish I could but my mind won't allow me to. I am in such turmoil that I can't seem to let it go. I understand what you're saying though.

 

 

I get that. :)

 

 

 

Maybe look at this from another angle....it sounds like you are struggling with racing thoughts and unable to shut down your mind. Could you be suffering a biochemical issue resulting in increased anxiety?

 

It may have nothing to do with your faith and everything to do with your physical health.

 

:grouphug:

 

Edited: I mean no offense. I have struggled with extreme anxiety in the past and know it is creeping up when I cannot let a certain thought rest.

 

"Trust and rest when all around thee

Puts thy faith to sorest test;

Let no fear or foe confound thee,

Wait for God and trust and rest.

 

"Trust and rest with heart abiding,

Like a birdling in its nest,

Underneath His feathers hiding,

Fold thy wings and trust and rest."

Edited August 31, 2012 by Juniper

[Quiver0f10]

Jean, How about this.

Our faith is not in faith.

It is in God.

Focus on God, and don't overthink faith at the moment.

Pray, praise, repent, and lather, rinse, repeat.

Know that many are praying for you as well.

 

((Jean))

 

I do appreciate the prayers!

[Quiver0f10]

I get that. :)

 

 

 

Maybe look at this from another angle....it sounds like you are struggling with racing thoughts and unable to shut down your mind. Could you be suffering a biochemical issue resulting in increased anxiety?

 

It may have nothing to do with your faith and everything to do with your physical health.

 

:grouphug:

 

Edited: I mean no offense. I have struggled with extreme anxiety in the past and know it is creeping up when I cannot let a certain thought rest.

 

"Trust and rest when all around thee

Puts thy faith to sorest test;

Let no fear or foe confound thee,

Wait for God and trust and rest.

 

"Trust and rest with heart abiding,

Like a birdling in its nest,

Underneath His feathers hiding,

Fold thy wings and trust and rest."

 

No offense taken. I do have anxiety issues so I think that is playing a big role in my feelings.

 

 

That poem is beautiful. Thank you!

[Jean in Newcastle]

No offense taken. I do have anxiety issues so I think that is playing a big role in my feelings.

 

 

 

 

Jean, I hope you don't think I'm forward in saying this, but perhaps you should really address all anxiety issues with medication or whatever treatment is best, before making any kind of decision ultimately on faith. Those sorts of things can cloud our thinking.

[Quiver0f10]

Jean, I hope you don't think I'm forward in saying this, but perhaps you should really address all anxiety issues with medication or whatever treatment is best, before making any kind of decision ultimately on faith. Those sorts of things can cloud our thinking.

 

I am taking Xanax for the anxiety but it only helps so much. I see the doctor again in a few weeks.

[Juniper]

No offense taken. I do have anxiety issues so I think that is playing a big role in my feelings.

 

 

That poem is beautiful. Thank you!

 

Xanax did not work for me. It was like throwing a pipe in front of a speeding train. Not blip on the radar!!!

 

:grouphug: Anxiety is no fun!!!!! No matter where it stems from.

[Aelwydd]

I'm doubting the whole thing; God, Jesus everything. I know that's ridiculous yet at times I can't see through the darkness.

 

Please hold me in your prayersif you feel led.

 

You know, faith is not supposed to be a heavy burden, but a "light yolk," according to Jesus.

 

And perfect love casts out fear. Fear is the currency of broken relationships, whether those relationships are between believers, between family members, or between God and believers.

 

Years ago, when I was still stuck under the thumb of a very traditional, conservative, Anglican-catholic parish, I discovered first hand how glorified theology, like the order of families and marital relationships, translated into hierarchal control. We women were advised to be subservient, confined to the outskirts of church functions (no altar girls or women at the altar), like singing in the choir in the back, or cooking for men after church. We were advised to make our entire spiritual lives revolve around our domestic duties.

 

During that time period, I had my son. And for the first year, I sat mostly alone downstairs in the nursery caring for my baby, while my faith slowly withered from drought. My dh was a deacon and so I was always alone in the pews, when I was in the sanctuary.

 

Whatever B.S. was fed to us about our "esteemed" position in the Church or before God, the fact was I was relegated to the basement, both figuratively and literally.

 

I had always been strongly attracted to theological study, and Church history, and I had made the choice to join this church with my dh, because it made so much sense historically and Scripturally.

 

But Jesus always did warn that you'll know a tree by its fruit. And the fruit borne by this church was utter indifference to my struggles in my faith, and this was the beginning of my anger. I was alone in my faith, even though I attended Mass faithfully every week.

 

I eventually threw off that heavy, miserable yolk and simply stopped going to church, **** the consequences to my husband's ministry. I was done. To his everlasting credit, he did not abandon me or spurn my pain, but chose to honor his vows to me above continuing in that diocese, or any other that followed the same prescribed theological patterns. I eventually realized after a period of agnosticism, that I still was moved by the Liturgy and many of the teachings of Christianity and the Scripture. But I decided that no Liturgy or Church was worth accepting the demeaning, callous teachings toward women and other groups of people, that I had been exposed to.

 

My faith has come to be more linked to bonds of fraternity with my fellow man than it has to any insular, separated Church. I measure my love for God by the compassion I feel for other people, no matter what their belief. I feel more connected to God through my fellow agnostic, atheist, UU, Muslim--whatever--peers than I ever did covering my head and bowing myself, no less an image of my Creator than anyone else, to being yoked to the metaphorical cart of theological B.S. that constantly told me I was imperfect, I was flawed, I was unsuitable for this or that ministry, I'm not good enough, not good enough, NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

 

I realize a good part of this is going to sound pretty darn liberal and far out to you, as I assume from your SN that you are in a fairly conservative tradition. But I'm sharing this to remind you: that tradition is simply that, one of among many. Before you equate your questioning of your church with Christianity itself, I would encourage you to go back and study Christ's teachings and example and ask yourself these questions:

 

How many times did Jesus emphasize earthly marriage and domesticity over the pursuit of God?

 

How many times did Jesus call for others to submit to His leadership, and use His position to coerce them to do His will?

 

How many times did Jesus tell women to go to the back of the crowd?

 

How many times did Jesus tell women that their spiritual worth is based upon their childrearing duties?

 

How many times did Jesus spurn the hated and despised outcast in favor of the established religious leadership?

 

How many times did Jesus call same sex relationships an abomination, and how many times did He picket the pagan temples of worship, attempt to influence Roman leadership to adopt "moral" values, all while proclaiming pagans, gays, goddess worshipers, and so forth that they are all ruining Roman society?

 

I could go on and on, but I hope you see my point. Jesus' burden is supposed to be light, not cumbersome, and furthermore, we as Christians are called to share each other's burdens, to fulfill the Law of Christ. Exactly NONE of that sounds like the spirit of the onerous regulatory and extremely restrictive roles that many traditions have drawn around both men and women.

 

Let me remind you: in the Garden it was Lucifer who introduced the question of authoritarian hierarchy when he convinced Eve (and through her, Adam) to consume the fruit so that she could be like God, i.e., promoted.

 

In a sad twist of irony, prior to the Fall, God and Adam/Eve walked together (as peers, as friends) in the Garden, and neither Adam nor Eve is shown assuming a greater or lessor position to the other. He called them by name, not by their position as lessor beings. They are simply shown as a reflection of the Trinity, co-equal and equally yolked.

 

When the Second Adam came to earth, it was exactly the same ploy. Lucifer took Jesus up to the pinnacle in the desert, and promised him great power, in exchange for...what? His submission.

 

With antiChrist, it is always, always, always about power plays and elevation of self above others. With Christ, it is always about stepping down from his elevated role to once more become the Peer of Man, to walk the Garden and to reclaim the companionship that can only ever be had between friends. And true friendship is never based upon control, differentiated power, and hierarchies. It is based upon love, equal give and take, and mutual agreement.

 

When Jesus was raised and glorified, He still relates to Mankind as his friends, raising us up with him.

 

This is the crux of the matter, that submission that is the result of outside coercion and pressure, and the iron-fisted subjugation of many traditions is not at all modeled after Christ's submission. And when they start laying this rule of dress, that rule of acceptable music, and so forth, they are simply re-imagining the Law according to their own prideful aspirations of creating a seamless theological power base. Thus, the pecking order among ranks is established, with men commanding other men, and men commanding women, and both men and women lording it over their children.

 

Again, NOT the model of behavior Jesus evinced. "Let the little children come unto me." I do not recall even one instance of Jesus ever rebuking a child in order to bend his or her will. He was by nature gentle and empathetic.

 

Realizing all this is what saved my faith. I do not define it by how others judge my role. I define it by how inclusive it is, how much I am able to feel the pains and joys of others, and discovering how much God loves me, by realizing how he loves them.

 

Perfect love casts out fear.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Aelwydd

[Bluegoat]

I don't know if doubted is the right word really. I was brought up in a very low-key Lutheran home. When I was about 13 I decided that I had no particular reason to believe Christianity was true, so I just stopped identifying it that way. But it wasn't a rejection really so much as a kind of blank slate state.

 

As I got older I came to the conclusion that Christianity was nice enough but not really for educated people. I bought into the dominant culture which had a sort of underlying assumption that there was no historical basis and certainly no philosophical basis for Christian belief. So I spent a lot of time looking at other religions, particularly Buddhism and neopaganism.

 

It wasn't until I went to university and studied history and philosophy (and the history of philosophy) that I decided to be a Christian. Though the first big shock I had there was just discovering that there were well-respected scholars who were really smart and well educated who were serious Christians. It actually kind of blew me away.

 

There are still things I wonder about, and I don't consider it is possible to adopt any worldview absolutely. They all have elements of faith and assumptions with no proofs.

[Quiver0f10]

Dear Jean,

 

I had a lot of anxiety a number of years ago, when I went through a time of seriously questioning my faith...not questioning God/Christ/the Holy Spirit--but my "faith" -- what I was taught, tried to believe about God. It consumed me. I could not shut it off. It was so consuming that it killed my blog, most of my involvement on this board, and so on.

 

What I finally realized was that it was the dissonance between my experience of God and what the Bible *said* about God and man, vs what I was being TAUGHT about God and man. That dissonance was what made me nutz. Until I got rid of the dissonance, I was a wreck.

 

I would prefer not to go into what were the points of dissonance here on this public board but if you wish to PM me, please do. I'll do my best to respond.

 

And I have been praying for you.

 

Patty Joanna

 

Thank you for the prayers!