Any LPCs/counselors I can ask a career question of?

[OneLittleWindow]

I'm going to the hive - 'cause I can't find help in real life. I'm considering getting a second MA/MS in psychology/counseling to try to get licensed. Anyone who is an active MHC or LCSW or LPC or any of the many other options out there? I'm wanting it so that my family has a more secure "back-up" plan in terms of finances - as our "careers" require more creativity and luck I think to succeed.

 

Basically I'm wanting to hear if anyone is out there - and if there is, if they're happy they did the master's, if they feel PhD is more appropriate, and if they're able to get work. I'd like to move toward a part time private practice, but, to be honest, don't think I'm willing to work away from the kids full time to build up hours and reputation at a clinic - any thoughts?

[Debbie in OR]

Thought I'd answer and also bump for you :)

 

My dh and I both have MA Counseling degrees. We do not have our LPC licensure, although dh has all the hours and supervision..just has to take the test.

 

 

If I am understanding your post, you really just want to ensure that you have a degree that will let you work with flexibility, will stay relevant during up and down economy and not require too much time away from family to complete? My thought is a Master's is definitely enough.

 

 

We have never been at a loss for work with an MA, even without licensure. If you want to private practice, you will want to get that but a PhD is not really necessary, in my opinion.

 

 

We have a friend with a phd in psychology and although he can charge more per hour, he does not necessarily have more job security during down times than we do. Plus, our degree is highly versatile...I worked as the director of an adoption agency with it and dh has had county mental health and school counseling jobs.

 

ETA: Just to clarify..the school counseling that dh does is through county mental health; as the next poster stated, to be an actual school counselor, you have to have a specific degree (and maybe a teaching degree as well).

Edited August 26, 2012 by Debbie in OR

[FairProspects]

My dh does. The licensure is critical if you are entering the field now, because it is the only way you would be able to take insurance reimbursements and entry level clinical jobs do not pay highly for the level of education, especially given the budget cuts of the current downturn. An MA is definitely enough, and even though he would have enjoyed it, dh is glad he did not do a PhD because the current debt load to reimbursement is not worth it (this is different from those who graduated a decade or so ago - we are younger, under 35 and the career is completely different from dh's colleagues who are 45+).

 

This is a very rewarding field, but it is not an easy field to get established in currently, and to get licensed you will need to work for an agency likely with long hours away from home for a couple of years, unless you can bankroll your own private practice from savings or with a business loan to clock those hours. We have had some very lean years and have sacrificed a ton (both of us) to get dh where he is now. And by sacrifice I mean dh has worked 80+ hrs a week for 8 years including weekends, evenings, middle of the night crisis calls, etc. It may not require as much sacrifice if it is as a 2nd income or you are only wanting part-time (although it can still be tough to get the license initially). But there is some serious sweat-equity involved to be successful.

 

It may also vary by state, but the degrees are very specialized now and dh would not be able to work as a school counselor (that is a completely separate licensure/degree) so there really is not as much flexibility or job security for the younger generation as previous counselors had.

Edited August 26, 2012 by FairProspects

[Beth in OH]

In my city, there is a glut of counselors with all sorts of certifications. It is very difficult to find work. Be sure to watch the job openings in your city for a few months to try to get a feel for your community before you commit one way or the other.

[Joanne]

I'm going to the hive - 'cause I can't find help in real life. I'm considering getting a second MA/MS in psychology/counseling to try to get licensed. Anyone who is an active MHC or LCSW or LPC or any of the many other options out there? I'm wanting it so that my family has a more secure "back-up" plan in terms of finances - as our "careers" require more creativity and luck I think to succeed.

 

Basically I'm wanting to hear if anyone is out there - and if there is, if they're happy they did the master's, if they feel PhD is more appropriate, and if they're able to get work. I'd like to move toward a part time private practice, but, to be honest, don't think I'm willing to work away from the kids full time to build up hours and reputation at a clinic - any thoughts?

 

Regarding Ph. D. I'd go Masters/Licensure/Ph.D later unless you can get into a clinical psychology program. (I couldn't, even with a Summa Cum Laude Masters in a related discipline, being published, etc.

 

I've heard from many diverse people that the salary differences between LPC level and Psychologist might *not* be worth the hassle. (That said, I may still be trying at some point.)

 

I have 2 designations, and am eligible to sit for the third. I have an LPC (intern), and LCDC (full). I did an additional practicum and semester to qualify to get an LMFT (I am just waiting to afford the test and test prep material, it is a very difficult test).

 

I got a job within 3 months of looking, if you count my new job (adjunct at community college), I have another. My salary is low for the field, but it is what it is.

 

I am a natural student, and my kids were all double digit ages and teens when I went back. I worked full time plus while getting my Masters. You *might* want to consider carefully where you get the Masters; one from a known religious institution may limit you more than a secular one. (The Montrose Counseling Center, for example, wouldn't even look at me. Public school settings also have a heightened radar).

 

As far as LCSW and LPC, there is a lot of cross-over. In some positions, the roles are interchangable. In some, the LPC does more counseling and the LCSW more case management, so he might want to consider what you *like* more. My current job has mostly counseling, with a small percentage of case managment.

 

Private practice can be very difficult; most of my peers complain about the insurance issues. Many share space, admin support, etc. Most of the professionals I know have several roles (teaching related classes, small private practice, work for a larger company).

 

For me, it was worth it, but it wasn't about "the money".

[DawnM]

Just as an FYI: Several licensed counselors were in my MA program for school counseling. They were switching over. They said the hours, pay, and work were better as a school counselor.

 

Dawn

[laughing lioness]

I'm an unlicensed MFT and dh is a licensed clincal psych. I decided not to get licensed because it would be 2yrs of making minimum and our city is glutted. Also, it's a technical degree at this point and I really didn't want to be working with addicts, medicaid and other difficutl populations for ever,

So, count the degree, count the licensing (in my current states it's 300 hrs during degree, 2000 hours post degree), then building your practice. Some master's degrees (like MSW) are shoe-ins for hosptial work, but not all. Job security is better with that, but it's degree specific, so check if you are interested.

 

Dh (clinical psyc) makes great money and has job security- he teaches on -line and has done adjunct irl. He also does testing and assesments, along with his clinical practice. He makes (which is different than billing) 3x's what a master's level person makes. He could easily make much more if he focused on an assesment practice. Most established clinics do a standard 60/40 fee split and they do the billing/office/support staff. Not all clinics are equal and some don't collect as well as others- that's another thing to keep in mind. Just because you bill doesn't mean you always collect. When dh worked in NM there was NON stop medicaid patients, but collecting was veddy, veddy difficult.

We also contiue to pay off his student loans- which were extensive. Plus a Ph.D in clinical, at least, is very competive (though one of my master's degrees was a perk of one of his jobs), but if you are willing to be competitive, there are ways to get a Ph.D. that are not as expensive- there is now a D.M.F.T. (doctorate of Marriage and Family) and Ed.D (doctorate of Ed- you can usually get licensed with either of these degrees).

 

 

 

I've heard from many diverse people that the salary differences between LPC level and Psychologist might *not* be worth the hassle. (That said, I may still be trying at some point.)

A licensed Ph.D. psychologist is going to make far and away more than an LPC level therapist. Unlicensed, maybe not. But an unlicensed therapist, at any level, is going to make FAR less than a licensed therapist.

If I had chosen a career over 5 kids and homeschooling I would have gone for a Ph.D. Much more flexbility and security.

Edited August 26, 2012 by laughing lioness

[FairProspects]

Dh (clinical psyc) makes great money and has job security- he teaches on -line and has done adjunct irl. He also does testing and assesments, along with his clinical practice. He makes (which is different than billing) 3x's what a master's level person makes. He could easily make much more if he focused on an assesment practice. Most established clinics do a standard 60/40 fee split and they do the billing/office/support staff. Not all clinics are equal and some don't collect as well as others- that's another thing to keep in mind. Just because you bill doesn't mean you always collect. When dh worked in NM there was NON stop medicaid patients, but collecting was veddy, veddy difficult.

We also contiue to pay off his student loans- which were extensive. Plus a Ph.D in clinical, at least, is very competive (though one of my master's degrees was a perk of one of his jobs), but if you are willing to be competitive, there are ways to get a Ph.D. that are not as expensive- there is now a D.M.F.T. (doctorate of Marriage and Family) and Ed.D (doctorate of Ed- you can usually get licensed with either of these degrees).

I think unlicensed work really depends on where you live. In some states you could not support yourself and you would be asking for legal trouble.

 

If I had chosen a career over 5 kids and homeschooling I would have gone for a Ph.D. Much more flexbility and security.

 

:iagree:There is a lot more job security for a PhD, and that testing and assessment is the way to go. Dh has recently added some testing and assessment it has been a huge boon to his practice.

 

However, in our state at least, insurance reimbursement rates only increase by around $30 an hour for a PhD vs. a MA, they are certainly not the double we would need them to be to cover the cost of the additional school loans. We are a good test sample because there are both PhD and MA practitioners in Dh's shared office space. Now the PhDs do have a higher cash billing rate, but it is still only about 1/3 more than Dh's with an MA.

 

PhDs have a lot more opportunities in general, but the high cost of the degree really needs to be a considered factor these days, especially with insurance companies lower reimbursements in the mix. This was a much different cost/benefit comparison fifteen years or so ago when the PhD would have been the obvious winner. Now I'm not so sure. Hospital/Clinic PhD salaried jobs will definitely pay 2-3 times that of an MA salary job, but I mean in private practice. A good PhD clinician who also owns office space, offers testing, and works as a professor will definitely make a lot more than a similar MA, but if you just compare side-by-side clinical time, I think the ratios are slipping. It probably depends on how ambitious and creative you care to be. Psychiatrists are totally different, since most of their income comes from prescribing meds, and many have given up talk therapy altogether as a poor use of their time/income.

Edited August 26, 2012 by FairProspects

[laughing lioness]

:iagree:There is a lot more job security for a PhD, and that testing and assessment is the way to go. Dh has recently added some testing and assessment it has been a huge boon to his practice.

 

However, in our state at least, insurance reimbursement rates only increase by around $30 an hour for a PhD vs. a MA, they are certainly not the double we would need them to be to cover the cost of the additional school loans. We are a good test sample because there are both PhD and MA practitioners in Dh's shared office space. Now the PhDs do have a higher cash billing rate, but it is still only about 1/3 more than Dh's with an MA.

 

PhDs have a lot more opportunities in general, but the high cost of the degree really needs to be a considered factor these days, especially with insurance companies lower reimbursements in the mix. This was a much different cost/benefit comparison fifteen years or so ago when the PhD would have been the obvious winner. Now I'm not so sure. Hospital/Clinic PhD salaried jobs will definitely pay 2-3 times that of an MA salary job, but I mean in private practice. A good PhD clinician who also owns office space, offers testing, and works as a professor will definitely make a lot more than a similar MA, but if you just compare side-by-side clinical time, I think the ratios are slipping. It probably depends on how ambitious and creative you care to be. Psychiatrists are totally different, since most of their income comes from prescribing meds, and many have given up talk therapy altogether as a poor use of their time/income.

 

:iagree:I totally agree. And it depends on how young you are. clinical work is exhausting and emotionally draining. My dh is much more tired after a week of work at 50, than he was 10 years ago.

And if you can create a niche market, that will help. Dh offers a niche, and is always has more clinical work than he can handle.

And bear in mind that most private practives DON't offer medical, retirement, vacation, sick days. You show and and get paid, or don't and don't.

[OneLittleWindow]

Just now finally getting back on here. You are all FANTASTIC! Thank you, seriously, for your input. I've been trying to find people IRL, trying to google, and your ideas and information feels more grounding to me than ANYTHING else!!!

 

Seriously thank you for your time.

 

the PhD route appeals to me because of the possibility of college teaching down the road. I'm 33, with a masters in a related field, a field that I think would help me develop a "niche" private practice eventually. I know with private practice there's still the aspect of marketing yourself, but I'm a pretty cautious person and I think in my community I might be able to build something.

 

Thank you thank you! I think I'm going to pursue it, just look into school options and costs and such and see if I find a good fit.

 

I don't know how many times I'll say I'm done with school only to go back again! AChK! :)