Breastfeeding dad wants to become LLL leader

[Murphy101]

I 100% agree with Cynthia, with the exception that in my analogy, I use a flamingo.:D

[TranquilMind]

No way in Hades would I want a male LLL leader.

 

Nope, nope, nope, nope.

Never mind. But I agree. What the heck?

[TranquilMind]

Mrs Mungo: Again, that *really* pushes the lines on what it means to be a man or a woman. You are married to a man, get pregnant *the normal way* (not really going through anything more than normal to have a baby, so not amazing), give birth, breastfeed and seek LLL Leadership, then why not just be a woman who looks/acts more butch than average?

 

 

Why the need to label yourself a man? That is what I don't get. Ultimately, isn't it just a label at that point? There is no intent to change to a biological male. Again, I am not trying to be insensitive. I just don't understand the need for a new label in *this* situation. Other situations are very different.

 

Because it is really about pushing the envelope, not a personal desire. It's a political statement, emphasizing that all this gender stuff is unimportant. It isn't.

 

And even if he did call himself a woman, then he still would not be eligible for LLL Leadership due to the supplementing.

 

Minor point, I think he thinks.

[Dmmetler]

I think that LLL's focus on "Exclusive" breastfeeding makes many of their leaders totally useless when you have those difficult situations where you can't. I'm glad my insurance paid for a lactation specialist who knew about special needs and premature infants with feeding issues and worked with me to get and keep my milk established to make pumping work-because one phone call with a LLL leader had me in tears ready to completely give up. Personally, send me the transgendered individual who actually had to struggle and accept that breastfeeding can be less than perfect and still be breastfeeding instead of someone who did it exclusively from the first minutes after delivery and never had a single issue!

[Lovedtodeath]

:iagree:

I don't believe that he really thinks new mothers would be comfortable with his assistance.

I don't know about that... I am more comfortable with a male doctor...

 

I don't know much about the LLL. I was just thinking that it would all sort out if he was made a leader and people decided if they wanted to be in his group or not?

[QuirkyKapers]

No way in Hades would I want a male LLL leader.

 

Nope, nope, nope, nope.

:iagree: I don't want a male ob/gyn and I don't want a male LLL leader either.

[CheerioKid]

No, just no. Why can't people just say "NO" and be done with things? I hope LLL holds their ground.

[Mrs Mungo]

I think that LLL's focus on "Exclusive" breastfeeding makes many of their leaders totally useless when you have those difficult situations where you can't. I'm glad my insurance paid for a lactation specialist who knew about special needs and premature infants with feeding issues and worked with me to get and keep my milk established to make pumping work-because one phone call with a LLL leader had me in tears ready to completely give up. Personally, send me the transgendered individual who actually had to struggle and accept that breastfeeding can be less than perfect and still be breastfeeding instead of someone who did it exclusively from the first minutes after delivery and never had a single issue!

 

Honestly? I agree. Some Leaders are useless for any kind of struggle. AND LLL *actively* discourages Leaders from helping in certain ways, even if they have gone to special workshops and stuff to help in that way (I don't want to get too specific). I think their insurance really only covers them from a "one mom to another" standpoint. If it got too technical, then it could be construed as medical advice and their insurance wouldn't cover them. They encourage Leaders to pass moms with serious problems on to a LC.

[AdventureMoms]

I think that LLL's focus on "Exclusive" breastfeeding makes many of their leaders totally useless when you have those difficult situations where you can't. I'm glad my insurance paid for a lactation specialist who knew about special needs and premature infants with feeding issues and worked with me to get and keep my milk established to make pumping work-because one phone call with a LLL leader had me in tears ready to completely give up. Personally, send me the transgendered individual who actually had to struggle and accept that breastfeeding can be less than perfect and still be breastfeeding instead of someone who did it exclusively from the first minutes after delivery and never had a single issue!

 

Yup. I breastfed my DD with zero problems. Thought I knew all about breastfeeding. Had a great LLL group with two knowledgeable leaders. We thought we were all set when the twins were born.

 

They were early, they were weak nursers, they got super dehydrated, and DW produced very little milk. The LLL leaders were useless. They put us in touch with another member who had issues with one of her babies, but basically she'd had to pump and syringe feed for a week. She HAD milk. No one in the group (including the leaders) knew anything at all about pumping to build supply, using a supplementer, supplements to increase supply, etc. My dw (who never produced any substantial amount of milk) now knows more about breastfeeding than that whole room full of exclusively nursing women.

 

So yeah. I think LLL would be more useful if they get over the exclusively bf thing and encourage women who have struggled to become leaders.

 

As far as this guy, well it is certainly an unusual situation. I can understand that some women would be uncomfortable with a transman helping her nurse, but I wouldn't be, personally. He would have been more useful to us, given his knowledge. If he lived in an area with a decent volume of queer parents, a lot of folks might appreciate his help. The queer community is accustomed to different gender expressions, and frankly, breastfeeding brings up a lot of emotions for people with gender issues, so having someone who has done it might be a valuable thing.

[Kathryn]

Agree with Cynthia as well. And I'd point out that a double mastectomy does not make one a male. The hormones producing facial hair are just about the only this I can see here that would make any sort of maleness. And that's outweighed by the having a baby.

[lvbnhome]

You go girl!! :001_unsure:

[In the Rain]

nm

[Canadianmumof5]

LLL doesn't have to say whether it was because he was a man or not. If the guy feels that way he can still bring a complaint and he will probably be heard.

 

:iagree: Darn Canadians :glare:

:iagree:

I don't believe that he really thinks new mothers would be comfortable with his assistance. He is just looking for his 15 minutes of fame.

 

:iagree:

 

I just don't get this. :svengo:

[KungFuPanda]

So a Dad, who went through transgender reassignment but still has female organs, gave birth and was helped to breastfeed by LLL. First off, I love LLL. I think they do incrediblly important work. I think it's great they were able to help him. He wants to pay it forward by becoming a leader and LLL is saying no, you have to be a woman.

 

Apparently the back and forth between the two sides has been very civil and gracious. And while I applaud him wanting to step up, I can see LLL's side. When it was set up, and probably untill this guy made the first phone call, I'm pretty sure they never really entertained the idea of men breastfeeding. And I can also see their point. I can totally understand women being uncomfotable with the idea of a guy leader. Some women are uncomfortable with any leader.

 

I remember my leader standing over me, while nursing and her helping me my son's head as well as ajust how I was holding him, so everything was sort of hanging out at the time. A guy trying to show you that would be weird. And for some people, a guy, who used to be a woman would be even weirder. So I get it. However with the wonderful ways families of today are growing and evloving, I can see this issue coming up again. I think LLL should make him a special consultant for future transgender parents.

 

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/breastfeeding-dad-trevor-macdonald-lllc.html

 

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/breastfeeding-dad-trevor-macdonald-lllc.html

 

:iagree: This is why men shouldn't be obstetricians. :D

[Donna]

:iagree:

I don't believe that he really thinks new mothers would be comfortable with his assistance. He is just looking for his 15 minutes of fame.

 

:iagree:

[IsabelC]

I can see there are a couple of issues here, but I think it shouldn't really be up to the LLL to allow or prohibit this person's leadership. He should take a long, hard look at how a variety of women with nothing in common except the need for breastfeeding support might react to having him as a leader, and then consider in what way he could best make a contribution. Personally I would not feel uncomfortable with him helping me. But the reality is that a significant number of women might, and when a woman is struggling to feed and care for her baby she is already meeting big challenges, and doesn't need a possible added challenge of learning to be more open minded about trans people.

[mirth]

So if he's stopped taking testosterone (presumably) while breastfeeding, isn't the idea of the baby drinking his human milk directly at odds with his gender, his very identity? (answer: yes it is) I wonder if dude has really thought this thing out. Seriously, his appearance cannot remain static if he is off test. He will appear more and more feminine, esp if he and spouse are considering more children. Will he end up resenting the baby? Will his (gay?) spouse leave him because he is no longer male-looking? These are very serious issues and not to be dismissed with a smile and a nod.

Edited August 25, 2012 by mirth

[LucyStoner]

deleted

Edited June 25, 2022 by LucyStoner

[happypamama]

I think the whole "is he/she a man/woman?" thing is just weird, and if LLL says you have to have breastfed exclusively, well, then, unfortunately, that particular parent is excluded from being a leader. So are women who were born with insufficient glandular tissue; it's unfortunate, but sometimes circumstances prevent us from doing everything we'd like to do in life.

 

I personally would not really feel comfortable with a male lactation consultant, and I think most women would probably feel the same way. However, perhaps this person needs to start a different sort of support group. That way, traditional dads, parents like this one, mothers who were unable to BF exclusively, etc. can offer support and assistance to nursing moms and their partners, particularly those who might have significant challenges that maybe LLL can't meet. Sure, personally having BF'ed exclusively does help with knowing how to teach other moms, but a lot of it can be learned through education, anyway. Because of participating in some online BF'ing support groups, I've read a lot of women's challenges, and even though they may have nothing to do with me, it's still information that I've passed on to other moms throughout the years. So why couldn't a dad, or a woman who had her own BF'ing challenges, etc. be able to support other families?

 

I've never actually attended a LLL meeting, despite having breastfed pretty much continually for a decade; I think it's because I always had good BF'ing support (IBCLCs, midwives, friends, mom, MIL), but I think it is a good organization that is very helpful. But they don't allow men at meetings? Yes, I can understand why, but at the same time, what about new dads? I run a local group that teaches moms how to wear their babies safely and comfortably; generally, it's moms at our meetings, but dads are welcome, and we are thrilled when dads want to take part in caring for their babies. So why can't there be a place where new dads can get BF'ing help? (My own husband benefited from the BF'ing part of our childbirth class; the instructor taught him what he could do to support me as a nursing mom, and I wish all dads could have that.) Seems like the person in the article really could start something valuable!

[Tmhearn]

I'm a little confused as to why people seem to think LLL requires leaders to have breastfed exclusively. I've never heard of that before. Is that a Canadian thing? In the US, you must have nursed for 9 months, attended a series of 4 meetings, and been recommended by 2 current leaders. After that, there is a lengthy certification process, which varies for each person and does not require exclusive breastfeeding for any length of time.

 

Additionally, I would compare the LLL groups to that of a church congregation. In other words, you wouldn't go to one Catholic church and assume all Catholics were that way. Each LLL group has its own culture, knowledge base, etc. Some groups are mostly SAHM's who wean at 2. Other groups have several leaders who are working moms, and everyone weans at 5. Just an FYI, for those that had experience with less knowledgable leaders.

[Delirium]

My brother is a transgendered gay identified man. He also gave birth to 2 children by stopping his hormonal treatments for a period of about 3 years. He is partnered with a bio gay man. I don't particularly care about LLL and I frankly can't see what why a FTM transgendered person would want to be a LLL leader but I am really disgusted by some of the negative, derisive and uninformed comments made here by some posters about transgendered people. My brother is my brother, not my sister or my "brother." Legally my brother is male (both his DL and Birth Cert have been changed by court order.) People do not undertake transitioning just because they feel like it. I have no doubt that transitioning in his late teens did nothing short of save his life. Unless you have lived that and seen the issue up close, you really can't understand. Why do some FTMs choose to give birth to babies? Because like most people they want children and looking at all options, decide for whatever reason that this is the best or only way. My brother and his partner did not think they would get an adoption agency to work with them and since they are comfortably middle class, they didn't feel they had the resources for a surrogacy pregnancy. After his kids were born, my brother had a hysterectomy and went back on his hormone treatments.

 

FWIW my brother has refused all attempts to interview him and even an attempt to cast him on a major television show about gay parents because he prefers his privacy and ability to pass.

 

Likening a trans person to a person dressing up as a donkey is callous and cruel, not funny or cute. What if YOUR child is trans? Believe me, it happens.

 

Beautifully said. Thank you.

[Renthead Mommy]

My brother is a transgendered gay identified man. He also gave birth to 2 children by stopping his hormonal treatments for a period of about 3 years. He is partnered with a bio gay man. I don't particularly care about LLL and I frankly can't see what why a FTM transgendered person would want to be a LLL leader but I am really disgusted by some of the negative, derisive and uninformed comments made here by some posters about transgendered people. My brother is my brother, not my sister or my "brother." Legally my brother is male (both his DL and Birth Cert have been changed by court order.) People do not undertake transitioning just because they feel like it. I have no doubt that transitioning in his late teens did nothi g short of save his life. Unless you have lived that and seen the issue up close, you really can't understand. Why do some FTMs choose to give birth to babies? Because like most people they want children and looking at all options, decide for whatever reason that this is the best or only way. My brother and his partner did not think they would get an adoption agency to work with them and since they are comfortably middle class, they didn't feel they had the resources for a surrogacy pregnancy. After his kids were born, my brother had a hysterectomy and went back on his hormone treatments.

 

FWIW my brother has refused all attempts to interview him and even an attempt to cast him on a major television show about gay parents because he prefers his privacy and ability to pass.

 

Likening a trans person to a person dressing up as a donkey is callous and cruel, not funny or cute. What if YOUR child is trans? Believe me, it happens.

 

 

Thank you for posting this. I orginally posted this because I think it's great that he was able to do all this and I think it's great he wants to lead. I know there are women who would not be comfortable with any guy, but I also know there are others out there that he would benifit. Of course the reason he had a child is the same reason everyone else on this board either had or adopted a child. BECAUSE THEY WANTED ONE!

[GailV]

I guess I'm not understanding why he feels a need to be specifically part of LLL. Why not become an LC? Why not support breastfeeding in some other way? Are there no other options open?

 

Yeah, LLL is well known. But it's obviously not the only way women learn about breastfeeding. If he feels strongly about the need to share his experience, he can do so in another way. Isn't that what he's already done?

[mom31257]

I would have never wanted a male LLL consultant. I don't think it would ever be appropriate or you would find many husbands who would be okay with it.

 

I'm afraid that we are facing a generation of the most confused young adults in the history of mankind. There may have always been those who felt they were the wrong gender, but now just the fact it is talked about and accepted so much will cause people to begin to question and fear they are not what they should be when they may never have questioned it before.

 

I directed a co-op for the last 3 years that had many families come and go. The last year I had several new families that all came from one LLL support group that I had attended in the past. The leader of that group had children with a lot of food allergies. Every family that joined the co-op that attended that LLL group had children with food allergies (none life threatening). Of all the other families I had attend in 3 years, only 2 other families had any kind of food allergy. I think when they heard one mom say "my child is allergic to x because he acts this way when he eats it", they would start to look for that behavior in their own child when he ate x. The power of suggestion is extremely strong and can create situations that might not have been there otherwise.

[Davysmom]

I guess I'm not understanding why he feels a need to be specifically part of LLL. Why not become an LC? Why not support breastfeeding in some other way? Are there no other options open?

 

Yeah, LLL is well known. But it's obviously not the only way women learn about breastfeeding. If he feels strongly about the need to share his experience, he can do so in another way. Isn't that what he's already done?

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

 

All the gender issues aside it drives me crazy when people join something or want to join something and change it to something else. Find or start something else!

[Mommy22alyns]

Uh, how many ways does this guy want to have it? Born a woman and transgendered to male, but kept female reproductive organs, but says he's a homosexual and married a guy, and wants to be the leader of a lactation group?

 

My head is hurting.

 

I'm sorry, I agree. I read the OP several times trying to sort out what was what.

[WiseOwlKnits]

:iagree: This is why men shouldn't be obstetricians. :D

 

True, except my male OB with Mia was way more respectful of the act of pregnancy/labor than either of the 2 female OBs I had with John or Lily. :D He had that whole, "Women are amazing because they can do this!" attitude while the others had a "Yeah, whatever. I do that too." attitude. LOL!

[Murphy101]

If my child said they were something they are not, I'd think they need psychiatric help. And I'd be furious if the supposed psychiatric "help" was to go along with the delusion. I can't think why that would ever be healthy. It's like telling someone with severe paranoia that yes, everyone is out to get them. It's wrong and unethical. :(

 

I think Cynthia might have been better off with a less... Insulting... Animal of choice. Personally, I use flamingos for these kinds of analogies. I like flamingos. We could go with Shakespeare. A gal by any other name....

 

But the general statement? Yes, I agree with her.

[itsheresomewhere]

True, except my male OB with Mia was way more respectful of the act of pregnancy/labor than either of the 2 female OBs I had with John or Lily. :D He had that whole, "Women are amazing because they can do this!" attitude while the others had a "Yeah, whatever. I do that too." attitude. LOL!

 

The OB with DS was a guy and was as sweet as can be. He has the same attitude about women as yours.

[clarkacademy]

:iagree::iagree:

 

 

All the gender issues aside it drives me crazy when people join something or want to join something and change it to something else. Find or start something else!

 

 

:iagree:I hate that!!!

[TranquilMind]

Martha: If my child said they were something they are not, I'd think they need psychiatric help. And I'd be furious if the supposed psychiatric "help" was to go along with the delusion.

 

That's what happens today, if the issue is anything at all about sexual behavior.

[AdventureMoms]

My brother is a transgendered gay identified man. He also gave birth to 2 children by stopping his hormonal treatments for a period of about 3 years. He is partnered with a bio gay man. I don't particularly care about LLL and I frankly can't see what why a FTM transgendered person would want to be a LLL leader but I am really disgusted by some of the negative, derisive and uninformed comments made here by some posters about transgendered people. My brother is my brother, not my sister or my "brother." Legally my brother is male (both his DL and Birth Cert have been changed by court order.) People do not undertake transitioning just because they feel like it. I have no doubt that transitioning in his late teens did nothi g short of save his life. Unless you have lived that and seen the issue up close, you really can't understand. Why do some FTMs choose to give birth to babies? Because like most people they want children and looking at all options, decide for whatever reason that this is the best or only way. My brother and his partner did not think they would get an adoption agency to work with them and since they are comfortably middle class, they didn't feel they had the resources for a surrogacy pregnancy. After his kids were born, my brother had a hysterectomy and went back on his hormone treatments.

 

FWIW my brother has refused all attempts to interview him and even an attempt to cast him on a major television show about gay parents because he prefers his privacy and ability to pass.

 

Likening a trans person to a person dressing up as a donkey is callous and cruel, not funny or cute. What if YOUR child is trans? Believe me, it happens.

 

:grouphug: And thank you. I wanted to say something along those lines but couldn't come up with words.

[Delirium]

If my child said they were something they are not, I'd think they need psychiatric help. And I'd be furious if the supposed psychiatric "help" was to go along with the delusion. I can't think why that would ever be healthy. It's like telling someone with severe paranoia that yes, everyone is out to get them. It's wrong and unethical. :(

 

 

Gender Dysphoria is in the DSM V. It would be wrong and unethical to ignore it as not being a possibility.

[AdventureMoms]

If my child said they were something they are not, I'd think they need psychiatric help. And I'd be furious if the supposed psychiatric "help" was to go along with the delusion. I can't think why that would ever be healthy. It's like telling someone with severe paranoia that yes, everyone is out to get them. It's wrong and unethical. :(

 

I think Cynthia might have been better off with a less... Insulting... Animal of choice. Personally, I use flamingos for these kinds of analogies. I like flamingos. We could go with Shakespeare. A gal by any other name....

 

But the general statement? Yes, I agree with her.

 

It is not less insulting when you use flamingos, for crying out loud. We're talking about human beings here, struggling with incredibly painful issues. Gender is about more than body parts, people.

[Audrey]

My brother is a transgendered gay identified man. He also gave birth to 2 children by stopping his hormonal treatments for a period of about 3 years. He is partnered with a bio gay man. I don't particularly care about LLL and I frankly can't see what why a FTM transgendered person would want to be a LLL leader but I am really disgusted by some of the negative, derisive and uninformed comments made here by some posters about transgendered people. My brother is my brother, not my sister or my "brother." Legally my brother is male (both his DL and Birth Cert have been changed by court order.) People do not undertake transitioning just because they feel like it. I have no doubt that transitioning in his late teens did nothi g short of save his life. Unless you have lived that and seen the issue up close, you really can't understand. Why do some FTMs choose to give birth to babies? Because like most people they want children and looking at all options, decide for whatever reason that this is the best or only way. My brother and his partner did not think they would get an adoption agency to work with them and since they are comfortably middle class, they didn't feel they had the resources for a surrogacy pregnancy. After his kids were born, my brother had a hysterectomy and went back on his hormone treatments.

 

FWIW my brother has refused all attempts to interview him and even an attempt to cast him on a major television show about gay parents because he prefers his privacy and ability to pass.

 

Likening a trans person to a person dressing up as a donkey is callous and cruel, not funny or cute. What if YOUR child is trans? Believe me, it happens.

 

Thank you for this. I don't pretend to understand what it must feel like to be a transgendered person or their parent, but I have a lovely cyber-friend who means a lot to me who is the parent of a transgendered child and I support her completely. She has made herself and her home a safe place to fall for her child and for others like her child. She has an astounding capacity for love, and her child is a strong, vibrant and loving person as well.

[Murphy101]

Gender Dysphoria is in the DSM V. It would be wrong and unethical to ignore it as not being a possibility.

 

No one is ignoring the disorder exists.

 

Some are arguing it is wrong and unethical to ignore the disorder factor of the disorder.

[Audrey]

That's what happens today, if the issue is anything at all about sexual behavior.

 

But gender identity isn't about sexual behaviour.

[AdventureMoms]

But gender identity isn't about sexual behaviour.

:iagree:

[Delirium]

No one is ignoring the disorder exists.

 

Some are arguing it is wrong and unethical to ignore the disorder factor of the disorder.

 

And it isn't anyone's place to judge how the person deals with it. One treatment is to live as the gender you feel you are which is not the sex you were born.

 

Stepping away from the thread before I type something ban worthy. I sincerely hope you never have to reconcile your belief with someone you love.

[LucyStoner]

No one is ignoring the disorder exists.

 

Some are arguing it is wrong and unethical to ignore the disorder factor of the disorder.

 

What is wrong and unethical is knowing that there is a way to solve someone's severe pain and ignoring it. Prior to transition, I had a "sister" failing school, who had come quite close to successfully ending "her" life and who was miserable (and miserable to be around.) I was his guardian at the time and my now-husband and then boyfriend would have to search him when he came home. As his transition unfolded, a young person emerged who got caught up in school, found a passion in life and started having a social life. He met a man and settled down. A decade later, I have a brother who is a decent father, PTA volunteer, minivan driving suburban dweller. I can not stress enough how I used to share some of your opinions and misperceptions and the degree to which I am thankful to have him and his family in my life instead of clinging to my opinions. My parents, who certainly prayed over it and struggled with it, were also fortunate enough to welcome 2 grandkids and not be mourning either the death of their child or the mess of a life lived by their profoundly depressed child. There is a reason trans people have one of the highest rates of sucide.

 

Until you have first hand knowledge of the issue, you don't know what it is that you don't know.

Edited August 25, 2012 by kijipt

[NittanyJen]

So a Dad, who went through transgender reassignment but still has female organs, gave birth and was helped to breastfeed by LLL. First off, I love LLL. I think they do incrediblly important work. I think it's great they were able to help him. He wants to pay it forward by becoming a leader and LLL is saying no, you have to be a woman.

 

Apparently the back and forth between the two sides has been very civil and gracious. And while I applaud him wanting to step up, I can see LLL's side. When it was set up, and probably untill this guy made the first phone call, I'm pretty sure they never really entertained the idea of men breastfeeding. And I can also see their point. I can totally understand women being uncomfotable with the idea of a guy leader. Some women are uncomfortable with any leader.

 

I remember my leader standing over me, while nursing and her helping me my son's head as well as ajust how I was holding him, so everything was sort of hanging out at the time. A guy trying to show you that would be weird. And for some people, a guy, who used to be a woman would be even weirder. So I get it. However with the wonderful ways families of today are growing and evloving, I can see this issue coming up again. I think LLL should make him a special consultant for future transgender parents.

 

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/breastfeeding-dad-trevor-macdonald-lllc.html

 

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/breastfeeding-dad-trevor-macdonald-lllc.html

 

We had so many issues I would not have cared if the individual helping me was pink and purple striped from the planet Ork and had tentacles, if it could have helped me. All the LLL person we got did was sprinkle me so liberally with sugar water that my son tried to latch onto any part of me he could get except my nipple because everything including my hospital gown was sweet! And I was still covered in IV's so no shower... I'm lucky I idn't end up covered in ants!

 

Then again I have never had a problem with my male OB/Gyn, and he can answer all kinds of questions, so why not this too?

[kitten18]

I think that LLL's focus on "Exclusive" breastfeeding makes many of their leaders totally useless when you have those difficult situations where you can't. I'm glad my insurance paid for a lactation specialist who knew about special needs and premature infants with feeding issues and worked with me to get and keep my milk established to make pumping work-because one phone call with a LLL leader had me in tears ready to completely give up. Personally, send me the transgendered individual who actually had to struggle and accept that breastfeeding can be less than perfect and still be breastfeeding instead of someone who did it exclusively from the first minutes after delivery and never had a single issue!

After reading this, I totally agree with you.

 

Neither of my children (who BF for 21 and 24 months), BF exclusively. I pumped some with both, and they both got some formula.

 

 

 

The only LLL meeting I went to was when I was pregnant with DS and DD was about 20 months old. DD was the oldest child there and NO ONE there (including the leader) had any experience with nursing during pregnancy OR nursing a toddler. :confused:

DD ended up weaning herself a few weeks later (One day she said, "No milk, broken" and never nursed again). I never went back to LLL because I didn't need any support in nursing a newborn/single child.

[Paige]

I don't care whether or not he is transgendered, I think the point is that he is a man. I have actually been in a position where the hospital only sent me a male LC to try to help me nurse my preemie twins while they were in the NICU. I am perfectly fine with male OBs, but there is something much more personal about a male LC looking you in the eye, handling your breasts, and talking to you, while you are spraying milk and engorged, that is just....not comfortable. Really, really, really, 100 times really uncomfortable for me. I tried to be open minded, but it was intensely creepy, I think DH was more than a little uncomfortable (and he's cool w/ male OBs), and I could not continue with the male LC.

 

There's no way for a good LC to get the job done without being face to face, touching you, and in an intimate position. Male OBs don't look at your face while they do the exam- even the breast exam at the OB/GYN is very sterile and detatched and no talking and you aren't focused on the nipple area, and you aren't typically in danger of having milk come in during the exam. I was a pro breastfeeder with my previous child and probably wouldn't have needed much help, I really wanted to breastfeed my twins while they were in the hospital, and probably would have if the LC had been female. Instead, I pumped and bottle (or tube) fed them exclusively until we left the hospital. Then, I took the babies to the LC in my local hospital and she helped me out and we worked on transitioning the babies to breastfeeding later. I think many mothers at the hospital my babies were born at were probably put off from trying to breastfeed by the male LC, and I doubt that many of them were able to transition to nursing when they were discharged. I was lucky because I already had a relationship with a LC in my hometown and because I was a very experienced nurser. Still, I feel that delaying breastfeeding until they came home made it much harder as the girls were already used to bottles and my supply was out of whack from all the pumping and no nursing.

 

I think LLL is justified in insisting on female leaders because a male leader could discourage people from seeking help and make women too uncomfortable to let him help them. I can see maybe if he were in a transgendered community, but he wouldn't have to be the leader. I think he could be more helpful and avoid scaring off women if he acted as a resource that the LLL could refer other transgendered parents to. I think a male LLL leader would actually be even more uncomfortable for some women to work with because the meetings are not in a medical setting- people are in street clothes, and the credentials are different, and it would seem to me to be even more personal than w/ the lactation consultant in a hospital or office setting. IMO, it doesn't matter if the male is heterosexual or not.

Edited August 25, 2012 by Paige

[Catwoman]

Personally, I find it hard to take LLL Dude seriously, because I don't think he cares at all about being an LLL leader. I think he wants to be on TV and in the news, and to become famous, and this was the idea he came up with, to try to get his 15 minutes of fame.

 

He'll probably end up with a reality show on TLC. :glare:

 

I have a very dear friend who is transgendered, and it is always very upsetting to see stories like this LLL thing on the news, because it makes it seem like TG people are publicity-seeking freaks, when in reality, the vast majority of them live nice, quiet, private lives, and no one would ever even know they were TG unless someone told them about it. They don't go around screaming it from the rooftops.

 

I find attention-seekers like LLL Dude to be quite offensive, and it has nothing to do with his s*xual identity.

[StaceyinLA]

I had forgotten about the "exclusive breastfeeding" part about leading. And I agree that should exclude him from leading. If it excludes women, it should also exclude men. But I still think he should certainly be made a special consultant for men, both transgender and orginal, who want to breastfeed.

 

Also some people don't through the entire surgery process simply because it is so extremely expensive. If you are male, stuck in a woman's body, so you go through gender reassignment (or as much of it as you can afford) to live as a male, then fall in love with a man, that does make you gay. The fact he was a woman before is beside the point. It is what he identifies as now.

 

And couples want babies. What couples, both straight and gay go through to get a baby is amazing sometimes. This couple, even though they are two men, had the ablity to have a child. So they did. I don't see that saying "yeah I'm sort of a guy, but still woman enough to have a baby." I see that as, well the parts are still there, so I might as well use them to fulfill our want of a child.

 

Sure he may be looking for his 15 minutes, but I also see him as a mentor for other fathers and future fathers out there. So I say good for him for trying.

 

I have an issue with the bolded. Men cannot breastfeed. It is not natural, nor is it normal, for this to take place. This person is NOT physically a man. There should be no instance where we need a male LLL leader to help other males breastfeed.

 

Women don't get to have penises. Men don't get to nurse babies. It's just not in the plan.

Edited August 25, 2012 by StaceyinLA

[Heather in Neverland]

What is wrong and unethical is knowing that there is a way to solve someone's severe pain and ignoring it. Prior to transition, I had a "sister" failing school, who had come quite close to successfully ending "her" life and who was miserable (and miserable to be around.) I was his guardian at the time and my now-husband and then boyfriend would have to search him when he came home. As his transition unfolded, a young person emerged who got caught up in school, found a passion in life and started having a social life. He met a man and settled down. A decade later, I have a brother who is a decent father, PTA volunteer, minivan driving suburban dweller. I can not stress enough how I used to share some of your opinions and misperceptions and the degree to which I am thankful to have him and his family in my life instead of clinging to my opinions. My parents, who certainly prayed over it and struggled with it, were also fortunate enough to welcome 2 grandkids and not be mourning either the death of their child or the mess of a life lived by their profoundly depressed child. There is a reason trans people have one of the highest rates of sucide.

 

Until you have first hand knowledge of the issue, you don't know what it is that you don't know.

 

And in defense of those of us who don't know... This is pretty confusing, not the mainstream, and therefore not part of the average person's reality. So of course we don't get it!

 

I am still trying to connect the dots on this story. See, I have a cousin who is a lesbian. She is very masculine in her features, the way she dresses, and conducts herself, her interests ... You name it. She is attracted to women (which is typically a male trait as well). I have always wondered about a chemical/hormonal imbalance, etc., in her because I am 13 years older than her and I have seen this in her since she was young.

 

She has not undergone any kind of official gender reassignment and I am not sure if she will as she has never mentioned it. She just sort of lives like a man would. If she did decide to undergo a transition it would not shock me. Then she would become a man who is attracted to females which I guess makes her no longer a lesbian.

 

But in the case of the article, you have a genetic female who is attracted to males like the majority of females are, who has also done some partial gender reassignment in order to be gay? I have to be honest, I have never seen this before and it makes no sense to me.

 

If you are a female who wants to give birth, nurse, and you are naturally attracted to men, why would you become a male? People say all the time that homosexuals don't "choose" it and I can buy that. But in this case, the person is born a female, attracted to males, which makes her STRAIGHT and she then becomes a male but still is attracted to males which makes her-now-him GAY.

 

Isn't this choosing to be homosexual? I am NOT being snarky. I truely am confused by the whole thing. It would be like my cousin undergoing gender reassignment to become a man then giving up women and starting to date men. It makes my head spin.

 

 

 

.

Edited August 25, 2012 by Heather in NC

[Elfknitter.#]

My brother is a transgendered gay identified man. He also gave birth to 2 children by stopping his hormonal treatments for a period of about 3 years. He is partnered with a bio gay man. I don't particularly care about LLL and I frankly can't see what why a FTM transgendered person would want to be a LLL leader but I am really disgusted by some of the negative, derisive and uninformed comments made here by some posters about transgendered people. My brother is my brother, not my sister or my "brother." Legally my brother is male (both his DL and Birth Cert have been changed by court order.) People do not undertake transitioning just because they feel like it. I have no doubt that transitioning in his late teens did nothi g short of save his life. Unless you have lived that and seen the issue up close, you really can't understand. Why do some FTMs choose to give birth to babies? Because like most people they want children and looking at all options, decide for whatever reason that this is the best or only way. My brother and his partner did not think they would get an adoption agency to work with them and since they are comfortably middle class, they didn't feel they had the resources for a surrogacy pregnancy. After his kids were born, my brother had a hysterectomy and went back on his hormone treatments.

 

FWIW my brother has refused all attempts to interview him and even an attempt to cast him on a major television show about gay parents because he prefers his privacy and ability to pass.

 

Likening a trans person to a person dressing up as a donkey is callous and cruel, not funny or cute. What if YOUR child is trans? Believe me, it happens.

 

Thank you for posting. :001_smile: I'm :confused: by something's I've read.

[happyhomemaker25]

On a lighter note is anyone else remembering The Office episode where Pam had a male LC and she was ok with it, but Jim was all :001_huh:? It was hilarious!

[Free]

What is wrong and unethical is knowing that there is a way to solve someone's severe pain and ignoring it. Prior to transition, I had a "sister" failing school, who had come quite close to successfully ending "her" life and who was miserable (and miserable to be around.) I was his guardian at the time and my now-husband and then boyfriend would have to search him when he came home. As his transition unfolded, a young person emerged who got caught up in school, found a passion in life and started having a social life. He met a man and settled down. A decade later, I have a brother who is a decent father, PTA volunteer, minivan driving suburban dweller. I can not stress enough how I used to share some of your opinions and misperceptions and the degree to which I am thankful to have him and his family in my life instead of clinging to my opinions. My parents, who certainly prayed over it and struggled with it, were also fortunate enough to welcome 2 grandkids and not be mourning either the death of their child or the mess of a life lived by their profoundly depressed child. There is a reason trans people have one of the highest rates of sucide.

 

Until you have first hand knowledge of the issue, you don't know what it is that you don't know.

 

Thank you for sharing your story. Truly it helps many of us to understand a different perspective.

[Free]

If you are a female who wants to give birth, nurse, and you are naturally attracted to men, why would you become a male? People say all the time that homosexuals don't "choose" it and I can buy that. But in this case, the person is born a female, attracted to males, which makes her STRAIGHT and she then becomes a male but still is attracted to males which makes her-now-him GAY.

 

Isn't this choosing to be homosexual?.

 

The fact that he identifies himself as a man attracted to other men, makes him a gay man irrespective of his biological gender.

 

If he chose the gender reassignment surgery, it is because he was male trapped in a female body. He wished to correct the biological gender of his body to his gender identity. If he is attracted to males, that is because he is (and always was gay).

 

ETA: A person's gender identity and sexual orientation are two different things. The biological gender in some unfortunate cases does not match the person's identified gender.

Edited August 25, 2012 by Free