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Opinions on math for right-brain learner..


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Ds13 does well with verbal info coming in and needs a sequential form of learning. We have been using TT for 3 yrs now, aand he's doing average. I would love suggestions for a math program that teaches sequentially, but isnt dry and boring. :D It was suggested by the diagnostician that ds utilize technology as well because his strengths slow down as he processes. The Dr. Also suggested that he cement his pre-alg concepts in further so we may be repeating some of thAt this year as well. My concern is that when he sees the TT pre-alg dvd going back in the computer he is going to flip! Im just looking at options for him.

 

I would prefer a full-curriulum, without having to worry about supplementing others in too.

 

Ok----- cant wait fo hear another threAd on math! :D

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No specialist here, and don't know your DS and how he works, so take what I say with a grain of salt. ;)

 

If DS is "getting" TT, I wouldn't be in a hurry to switch -- especially if DS is a visual-spatial learner (VSL), or "right brain" in processing of information, there are only a very few things to switch TO for the higher levels of math.

 

I would be cautious about *relying* on a technology-based math (if that's what diagnostician is recommending), as it can encourage passive learning rather than help actively strengthen weak brain connections (which is usually an issue with right-brain students). Two friends used Thinkwell (online computer-based program) with their right-brain middle school DSs, and found it allowed their sons to guess/be lazy rather than really learn. And -- JMO from our experience with our strongly right-brain (VSL) DS who struggled with math -- it's fine to teach your student to use a calculator for massive multiplication/division problems or taking square roots -- BUT, only AFTER they solidly understand how these processes work with smaller numbers, and only occasionally allow the calculator. (Our DS had a tendency to forget processes and get lazy when I allowed the calculator.)

 

 

What I *would* suggest is finish his level of TT and then do a different math program of similar material but from a TOTALLY different perspective (Life of Fred, e.g.) to solidify math skills and help strengthen math thinking/help with overall brain processing. Using a second program that covers a lot of the same ground but from a different perspective will allow DS to move at a very rapid pace (go quickly through areas he's solid in, slow down and take your time in areas he's not as solid with), AND it will prevent frustration at seeing the same TT Pre-Algebra again. AND it allows you to stick with TT as your spine, since that is working.

 

I know you said you don't want supplements, BUT, I found that by doing a second math *really* helped our very visual-spatial learner (right-brain) DS grasp math, which was a very weak area all along for him. (He used MUS from 5th grade through high school; in grades 5-8 we supplemented with Singapore 4A/B; 5A/B; 6A/B, and some of the Keys To ... workbooks. In high school we supplemented MUS with a little of Harold Jacobs' Algebra & Geometry. Singapore, while not easy for DS, was *super* at helping him develop math thinking/problem solving. I wish we'd used the Keys to Algebra series instead, AND I wish I had heard of Life of Fred and Art of Problem Solving -- came too late for us to use these.)

 

You can supplement in a variety of ways:

- do TT math 4 days a week / skim portions of matching lessons in the supplement on day 5

- do TT in morning, and a short (20 min) second math supplement in the afternoon

- complete TT during school year / do the supplement in the remaining weeks/over the summer

 

 

I recommend looking at several different programs (most are at Rainbow Resource for table of contents, sample pages, cheaper prices):

 

- Art of Problem Solving: Pre-Algebra

(really develops math thinking through problem-solving; this will likely feel very advanced without first working through some other program that emphasizes problem-solving and is at slightly lower level of math -- but this is a *super* program for developing "math thinking" -- I recommend reading through this recent thread first to see if DS would be ready (or not) for the AoPS Pre-Algebra level, or if you should wait a year and THIS year use a different program to encourage math-thinking/problem-solving)

 

- Life of Fred

(develops math thinking through story and problem-solving; lessons within the book build on one another; use which ever books are needed to solidify foundational topics and prepare for Algebra: Fractions, OR, Decimals & Percents, OR, Elementary Physics, OR, Pre-Algebra 1)

 

- Math Mammoth

(mastery-based; gently incremental; similar to Singapore Primary, but a little easier for Western educators to implement; for supplement/practice: Fractions & Decimals 3; The Four Operations with a Touch of Algebra; Ratios, Proportions & Problem Solving; Percent; Integers)

 

- Singapore Primary

(teaches a visual "bar method" for problem-solving -- helps the student see what they know/need to figure out/need to DO to get to that answer; even though many concepts will be repeats, I DO suggest starting with level 4A and 4B just to get that "bar method" figured out with more simple problems, before moving on to 5A and 5B (more of a geometry focus), and 6A and 6B (complex problem solving focus) -- see the textbook (teacher book) and workbook (consumable pages) for for table of contents/samples)

 

- Keys To ... series

(shows each concept from several different visual angles; mastery-based; very gently incremental; use as few/many pages as needed for supplemental practice in whatever areas are weak: Fractions; Decimals; Percents)

 

- Keys to Algebra series

(same company/style as above; if DS is pretty solid in Pre-Algebra, try this before introducing an Algebra program as preparation)

 

 

In reference to the diagnostician suggesting use of technology so DS doesn't bog down, I would FIRST *strongly* recommend implementing nutrition/diet and techniques and therapies that strengthen left-right brain hemisphere connections, which are usually weak in right-brain students. See Dianne Craft's information on Right Brain Math; Essential Fatty Acids & The Brain (natural supplements); and Identifying and Correcting Blocked Learning Gates (techniques and therapies). Even consider if Hidden Allergies may be causing learning difficulties. Also, Jeffrey Freed's Right Brain Children in a Left Brain World also has some great, specific tips and techniques for teaching right-brain students in the core subject areas, especially in the middle school/high school years.

 

For programs that involve technology/computers: Kinetic Textbooks are interactive digital textbooks (Pre-Algebra, Algebra 1, and Algebra 2). There is also an online grading service available. ALEKS is an online self-paced program for a fee (all math levels) -- adaptive questioning to determine exactly what a student knows and doesn't know; then focuses the student on what the student doesn't know, with periodic reassessments to ensure topics are retained).

 

 

The only other math program that has all math levels AND that is recommended for VSL (right-brain) student is Math-U-See (very visual and hands-on in presentation; mastery (not spiral); incremental; extremely gentle -- some families feel it is not rigorous enough in the high school years).

 

Harold Jacobs' Algebra 1 and Geometry textbooks connect well for some right-brain students. They are mastery-based, incremental, and have real-life applications of each lesson's topic to make it more concrete and real. Dr. Callahan also has DVD lessons that match up with the 2 Jacobs textbooks.

 

Other higher math programs with video lessons (like TT):

Chalkdust (rigorous; very expensive; Basic Math, Pre-Algebra, and all the higher math levels)

Videotext (people either like it or hate it; Pre-Algebra, and all the higher math levels)

Neither program is necessarily geared for strong VSL and right-brain students, but are visual with DVD lessons.

 

As a visual supplement, Khan Academy has free online video tutorials on many math topics -- certainly Pre-Algebra all the way up. And I know a friend who found the video lessons of Math Relief (has only Alg. 1 and Alg. 2) to be of help to her math strugglers.

 

 

I would NOT recommend Saxon for a right-brain learner, even though there are the DIVE tutorials and the Art Reed Teaches Saxon DVDs. Saxon is spiral-based, broken into steps that are too-widely spaced for retention -- and it is very abstract (left-brain) in presentation. More about formula memorization and "plug and chug" and less about teaching math-thinking and developing problem solving skills.

 

 

Hope something here helps get you started in the direction that connects for you and DS! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited by Lori D.
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Happy to help! And yes, happy to answer questions -- I gave you the "scattergun" approach trying to hit as many possible areas for you as possible in hopes that one or two might truly be of help -- I know that tends to be a bit overwhelming. ;)

 

Looking forward to more discussion once you've done some reading! And hoping others will chime in with what they have found to be of help with VSL / right-brain students re: math and upper level math programs. :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited by Lori D.
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Lori, has given you some tremendous suggestions. I think there are two primary approaches to consider:

 

1. Go with another Pre-Algebra after TT which is visually based such as MUS (also mastery), KineticBooks(more rigorous), TabletClass, possibly Derek Owens. Most these have sample lectures you and your son can check out first.

 

2. Start with a 'gentler' Algebra such as TT, MUS, Jacobs. Some use these as mental bridges or 'Pre-Algebra' to a more difficult Algebra 1 program. Then spend more time slowing down where needed. Eventually move into more challenging Algebra after general principles and concepts are solidified.

 

In either case I recommend involving him in the process more so that he feels his input is valid as well. Let him see a few programs you feel may be a good fit to see if they connect with him. If you still find TT works the best that ok also. But you then may want to consider moving to or supplimenting with something that has more depth and rigor before moving into Geometry. BTW, TT Geometry is considered to be more at grade level in scope and sequence than some of the other TT courses.

Edited by dereksurfs
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Wow, Derek, in your concise post you summarized what I was trying to get at in a post that max-ed out at the character limit! :D (I really need to learn to edit...)

 

I also noticed in your signature that your family uses Hands-On Equations, which I meant to include in my response above. It is a great hands-on/visual supplement for *seeing* how the abstract concepts of solving for X actually works. See Hands-On Equations here, and at the publisher's website.

 

Warmest regards, Lori D.

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Also, Jeffrey Freed's Right Brain Children in a Left Brain World also has some great, specific tips and techniques for teaching right-brain students in the core subject areas, especially in the middle school/high school years.

 

 

:iagree: I have a very right-brained husband and son, and this book is awesome. It also helps to remember that being right-brained isn't a disability, it can actually be a huge gift! They think of things in ways that stretch my mind! It is just kind of a pain when you are trying to get school done, lol.

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No personal experience with the math Kinetic Textbooks, but here are some past threads:

 

Kinetic Books Alg. 1 questions

Can anyone tell me about the Kinetic program?

Kinetic Math vs. Teaching Textbooks?

re: Kinetic Books (this thread is 2 years old, and several people on it have since used Kinetic Books, so you could pm them for their reviews…)

Kinetic Books vs. ALEKS (one poster in this thread echoed what a friend's DD says about ALEKS -- fine for review or going quickly through the program BUT, NOT a lot in the initial instruction of concepts)

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No personal experience with the math Kinetic Textbooks, but here are some past threads:

 

Kinetic Books Alg. 1 questions

Can anyone tell me about the Kinetic program?

Kinetic Math vs. Teaching Textbooks?

re: Kinetic Books (this thread is 2 years old, and several people on it have since used Kinetic Books, so you could pm them for their reviews…)

Kinetic Books vs. ALEKS (one poster in this thread echoed what a friend's DD says about ALEKS -- fine for review or going quickly through the program BUT, NOT a lot in the initial instruction of concepts)

 

I signed up for the trial period. Ds really liked it so I figured it wouldn't hurt to try it out. I was thinking of doing this, along with his Hands On equations? I also have some Everyday Math that I was wanting to do on Friday's to sort of change things up a bit. How does that sound? :D

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I signed up for the trial period. Ds really liked it so I figured it wouldn't hurt to try it out. I was thinking of doing this, along with his Hands On equations? I also have some Everyday Math that I was wanting to do on Friday's to sort of change things up a bit. How does that sound? :D

 

Wow, that sounds like a really fun and solid combination. And most importantly your ds likes it which usually means he'll stayed engaged with it. I've heard some real positive feedback from parents using KB as a full Math program with their kids. I'm not sure you will need too much supplimental with it. Though it couldn't hurt.

 

I'm also considering KB Pre-Algebra for my ds BTW. So please report back after you use it for a while. Are you starting with Pre-Algebra? I'll start with the trial and see what he thinks.

Edited by dereksurfs
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Wow, that sounds like a really fun and solid combination. And most importantly your ds likes it which usually means he'll stayed engaged with it. I've heard some real positive feedback from parents using KB as a full Math program with their kids. I'm not sure you will need too much supplimental with it. Though it couldn't hurt.

 

I'm also considering KB Pre-Algebra for my ds BTW. So please report back after you use it for a while. Are you starting with Pre-Algebra? I'll start with the trial and see what he thinks.

 

I am starting with pre-alg. We are going to officially start on Monday so I went ahead and set up our password and everything so we can jump right into it. I'm actually excited about it!

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