Is this unusual?

[FaithManor]

Thanks kiwi mum, I'll check that out. And @ Faith Manor, I am reminded of the projectile problem we teach in calculus assuming the earth is flat. Not until i read Gaileo did I realize (in reference to what I was teaching) that the earth is not flat (??!!) and that the "gravity lines" we assume are parallel to the y axis in calculus actually meet at the center of the earth. This is relevant when doing projectile problems that involve horizontal distances that approach the diameter of the earth, or heaven forbid exceed it. I.e. some problems we assign as to when does a projectile fall to earth, would have as correct answer: "never", if the numbers were a bit larger. Or to put it another way, unlike the universal assumption of students, not all phenomena are linear.

 

"Always read the masters, not just the pupils." (Abel)

 

:D I :thumbup1: this post!

 

We'll go over this with the team. They are all 9th and 10th graders - two kids in algebra 2 - so it will take some patience and hand holding on our part, but they will get it!

 

Faith

[kitten18]

 

However, I heard that the FDA may soon ban all sales of any over the counter liquid medication for young children. Why? Because apparently only 35% of American parents can handle accurately the measuring like 1/2 teaspoon or 2 tablespoons or 5 mL or any other way they may do it. THat includes when they include a measuring cup in the package. I was totally floored. I had already realized that many Americans were innumerate but didn't think it went to such a low level. In the report it said that these were 3rd grade math skills.

 

 

:svengo: How are these people making it through the day???

[mathwonk]

"And it's not just G & T classes, it's implemented district wide now."

 

Yoicks! I seem to recall a proverb about what happens "when the blind lead the blind, they both ....". (something about a ditch.)

Edited August 23, 2012 by mathwonk

[Marylou]

This thread reminds me of "

[mathwonk]

Thanks again kiwimum. I did a brief search on VSL and immediately found myself, at least partially. In college I once read an essay on thinking in which a scholar, maybe a philologist?, asserted that thinking was not possible without words. I thought he was just not very bright, as many mathematicians think quite organically, geometrically and spatially. In a famous essay even Mozart stated he visualized his concertos as a whole before writing them down at all. Einstein also stated that he thought in shapes, not words. (Read Hadamard's essay On the psychology of mathematical invention.)

 

I was reminded of an occasion when i was in a conversation with two other mathematicians, a student struggling with a problem, and a young Harvard professor much stronger than me technically and more knowledgable. The student stated his problem and the professor had no response. i asked him a naive question about what the problem meant and he answered me somewhat patronizingly, since I obviously did not know the subject. I asked him another simple question about what he could already do.

 

Then I simply observed that if he could that, then he should be able to do his problem as well. He asked why and I made a brief observation as to the analogy between what he could and what he wanted to do. He expressed total lack of understanding but the bright Harvard professor understood immediately and began to explain my remark to him in detail for some time.

 

Afterwards I was very happy because I had demonstrated to both of them that even with less knowledge and less strength than either of them, and although i myself could not solve his problem, I could nonetheless explain how with his own knowledge the problem was essentially solved. I felt I had gone from "who is this doofus?" to "gee, this guy has something to offer!"

 

I.e. I seem sometimes to have the ability to explain to someone, well if you can do that then you should also be able also to do this, when they themselves do not see it. I understand problem solving as a process, even for problems whose terms I am not acquainted with. Once I did this also with a famous senior professor from another elite school. He was giving a talk on subject I was a novice at and said "when so and so solved this outstanding problem I do not know if he knew the following useful fact."

 

I raised my hand and asked for the definition of the words he was using, and then immediately showed that if one knew what he said was known one could immediately deduce what was in question. The famous professor was somewhat discomfited and made a sarcastic remark at my expense that if I could deduce this then certainly the person under discussion could have done it instantly as well, (even though he himself had not seen it). I was offended, but he was just being defensive as it is embarrassing to have a total rookie answer your question from the audience who obviously did not even know the meaning of the words before. It was clear that one reason he was giving the talk was to claim credit for some of the ideas in the solution. If I were more diplomatic I would have made my remark more hesitantly and let him have the pleasure of telling me it was correct.

 

Anyway, this all fits with the description given in the article I perused on VSL. This may be my gd's orientation to math as well. E.g. my gd did not know at first that 7 divides 91 but after learning that she deduced instantly that 7 does not divide 97 since 91 and 97 differ by 6, not a multiple of 7. So, like me, she can also see that if one can do one problem then she can also do another related one. Thank you!

Edited August 23, 2012 by mathwonk

[ChocolateReignRemix]

:svengo: How are these people making it through the day???

 

Well, in reality the FDA is not banning liquid meds for children (although a consumer did propose that as a solution). The issues with the liquid meds, as identified by the FDA, were inconsistent measurements due to household utensils being different sizes (thus causing inconsistent dosing) and poorly marked dispensers being provided with the meds (I have personally experienced this).

[mathwonk]

dmmosher, you are keeping me up! I love that bit, but I need to go to sleep! I'll watch the rest tomorrow. "I don't know the weight,.....and I don't know what girth means." I knew what he would say before he said it, but his delivery was perfect! Comedians are the smartest people on earth.

 

Ok i got time to watch it all, and it was like the time I woke up my wife laughing at Bill Bryson's Notes from a small island.

 

From the other room I am hearing "what are you laughing at?"

 

ok on to the next one, Q:....

Edited August 23, 2012 by mathwonk

[Marylou]

dmmosher, you are keeping me up! I love that bit, but I need to go to sleep! I'll watch the rest tomorrow. "I don't know the weight,.....and I don't know what girth means." I knew what he would say before he said it, but his delivery was perfect! Comedians are the smartest people on earth.

 

:D You might also like "Q as in quagmire" He is so funny.

[Jen500]

Well, in reality the FDA is not banning liquid meds for children (although a consumer did propose that as a solution). The issues with the liquid meds, as identified by the FDA, were inconsistent measurements due to household utensils being different sizes (thus causing inconsistent dosing) and poorly marked dispensers being provided with the meds (I have personally experienced this).

 

I have had this issue also--the opaque little plastic cups with thick, barely readable measurement lines. And then I need to get a magnifying glass to read the dosing instructions sometimes.

[Parrothead]

Your peculiar brilliance frightens me, sometimes. :D

What can I say? I've freely admitted here many time that I know I am so weird. :lol:

[FaithManor]

Thanks again kiwimum. I did a brief search on VSL and immediately found myself, at least partially. In college I once read an essay on thinking in which a scholar, maybe a philologist?, asserted that thinking was not possible without words. I thought he was just not very bright, as many mathematicians think quite organically, geometrically and spatially. In a famous essay even Mozart stated he visualized his concertos as a whole before writing them down at all. Einstein also stated that he thought in shapes, not words. (Read Hadamard's essay On the psychology of mathematical invention.)

 

 

 

I sometimes think in music. There are more people who think in a different language than "speech" than many "experts" would like to imagine. It's not a common occurence, but as a professional musician, the concept of thinking and pondering without language is not new or wonky. During my brief years as a composer of children's piano music, I would not have accomplished much if my thought processes had to always generate from the speech center of my brain.

 

Thanks for sharing!

 

Faith

[brehon]

I sometimes think in music. There are more people who think in a different language than "speech" than many "experts" would like to imagine. It's not a common occurence, but as a professional musician, the concept of thinking and pondering without language is not new or wonky. During my brief years as a composer of children's piano music, I would not have accomplished much if my thought processes had to always generate from the speech center of my brain.

 

Thanks for sharing!

 

Faith

 

Ya know, I've thought in music (at least partially) my whole life. Because I also have synesthesia I often also see colors when I hear specific notes or see specific letters.

 

I remember a 20th century music history class taught by a wonderfully eccentric violinist/historian. As part of his dissertation many years before he had discovered, analyzed, and written about "Z cells" in Bartok's 4th Concerto (I think). Anyway, I was also taking an advanced genetics class the same semester and was having a dickens of a time understanding a particular topic. I remember one afternoon studying genetics in the music library while listening to my assigned music history pieces and like a lightening bolt I suddenly understood both the genetics topic and these Z cells (the existence of which I really just took on faith) because I understood the genetics "in music" which somehow helped me "see" the Z cells.

 

Huh. I hadn't thought of that in nearly 20 years.