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What do you outsource for high school? Why? How?


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We are contemplating various options for our seventh grader's high school years :001_smile:

 

Do you outsource any high school classes?

 

If so, which?

 

And why?

 

What manner(s) of outsourcing do you use? Co-op? Tutor? Public school? Dual enrollment at CC? Or at a college/university? Online academy? Single online courses? Other?

 

Please mention if you're also teaching other students, if that info isn't in your signature.

 

Thanks for your input! We are debating between her sister's private school, a science-math charter school (but we're out of district so odds are not in her favor), the various umbrella school offerings (not rigorous enough), very expensive private schools (merit scholarships available, though), and <gulp> continuing to homeschool :tongue_smilie:

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We outsource French because I do not speak French myself, and my ability to learn alongside DD and stay ahead was maxed out after a few years. I want her to become fluent, and that is only going to happen with a proficient teacher. We used a private tutor for a while, and then enrolled her at the university in 10th grade for French2. She will continue this semester.

 

Another course we outsource is calculus based physics. This is a course I am perfectly capable of teaching (in fact, I do teach it at the university), but our main objective is that she take a rigorous college course with professors who are not me. I want her to get used to different teaching styles and personalities and deal with instructors who are not her parents.

 

We not-quite-but-sort-of outsourced algebra based physics in 9th grade. I was her teacher, but I had her attend my college physics class at the university and do the normal classwork. We will do the same for DS next year; this will be their first introduction to college courses.

 

In 12th grade, she will take General Biology at the university and some other class.

 

All other subjects, I homeschool.

Edited by regentrude
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Do you outsource any high school classes?

If so, which?

Yes. I've outsourced everything but 9th grade English and Geometry.

And why?

(1) I am not really confident to teach anything but high school math. (2) Dual enrollment at CC is free in 10th-12th grade here. (3) I grew weary of butting heads with ds. (4) Ds wanted to spread his wings in 10th grade. (Note he did not want to spread his wings in 9th grade)

What manner(s) of outsourcing do you use? Co-op? Tutor? Public school? Dual enrollment at CC? Or at a college/university? Online academy? Single online courses? Other?

Ds has taken a few online classes, has dual enrolled at PS for 2 classes each year starting in 10th grade, and has dual enrolled at CC starting in 10th grade. He started with 2 classes first semester, 3 classes second semester, and is taking 4 classes this semester.

 

HTH!

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We have chosen to outsource:

 

Labs for Chemistry and Biology.

 

Writing/Composition: Occassionally Dd will take a course away from home to allow her to have another point of view/assessment of her writing.

 

We intend do PA Homeschoolers for a couple of AP classes in future years, not this first high school year.

 

Community college would not be an option until Dd is older. We do not currently plan to use this option.

 

If she selects a language other than Spanish or Latin, I would outsource after the first year.

 

Dd's largest challenge comes from the number of hours she spends in the performing arts. Homeschool allows her to follow this interest far more than she would otherwise be able to do. We take opportunities as they fit and make sense for us. There are so many options.

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So far I have outsourced:

 

foreign language -- she receives instruction in a classroom situation from a teacher who speaks the language (I don't)

 

music -- both private lessons and band

 

writing -- to get some variety in instruction & evaluation

 

science

 

art

 

Most of these classes are in a co-op type situation, except private music lessons.

Edited by TrixieB
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This year for 9th grade:

 

Spanish 2 with a tutor because I can't keep up with it and she needs someone who is fluent.

Science History & Honors Chemistry it's through co-op but the main focus on co-op day is labs. The teachers uses an online classroom program for lectures and assigning homework. DD loves science and the teacher is fabulous and I don't have much background so I want to make sure she has what she needs if she decides to go into a science field (which is almost positive).

 

For 7th Grade we're outsourcing Writing, Latin conversational class (just a supplement) and a class of her choosing through co-op. I cannot teach her writing.:glare: I don't speak Latin and the other is just for fun! :001_smile:

Edited by Momma_Bear
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My degree is in physics, so I am confident in teaching high school math and science at home. My kids do things like art and music through classes because those are subjects I can't teach (beyond very beginning piano). Dual credit classes are free here in 11th and 12th grades (just the first 12 classes, but that's still a lot), so I plan for all of my kids to do dual credit.

 

oldest

cartooning classes at local fine arts enrichment school

dual credit classes at cc

Tae Kwon Do and then kickboxing classes for p.e.

 

middle

dual credit classes at cc

gymnastics and tumbling classes for p.e.

 

youngest just entering 9th grade

guitar, banjo, mandolin, and voice lessons (actually just two separate lessons with different teachers)

will eventually be able to take dual credit classes at cc

Edited by AngieW in Texas
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We outsourced a few courses for my daughter. She took some math, one science, American government, Spanish and an AP economics class through Florida Virtual School (FLVS). She liked the outside validation and having contact with other teachers. And, because we're Florida residents, it was free for us. So, it was an easy, inexpensive way to get her some outside courses.

 

My son has done three high school courses through FLVS: Liberal Arts Math (which will just count as an elective), Earth Space Science and geometry. He did the first semester of their redesigned Spanish class but strongly disliked it. I doubt we'll do any more FLVS classes for him. They don't seem to be a good fit for his learning style.

 

He will be participating in a co-op this year. I think he's taking a critical thinking skills workshop, chemistry and American history, but the chemistry and history classes will be supplemental to the curricula we're doing at home, and I likely won't give credit for the critical thinking one. He just thinks it sounds like fun.

 

At this point, I have no plans to outsource any more courses for him. He doesn't seem to get a lot out of them, and it makes me crazy watching him not pay attention.

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From the wording of your post, it sounds like what you most concerned about is:

1. fears about homeschooling high school

2. how to decide about high school educational options

 

 

Addressing the second concern first:

Gently, I'm not sure a poll about why/why not other homeschoolers outsourced in high school will really help you decide what is best for *your* family to go with a charter high school, umbrella school, or homeschool, as each family's life circumstances, student educational needs, parent abilities, and local educational opportunities are so very different.

 

What might help you better at this point is to think about/write down your goals for your student -- life skills development; character; spiritual goals; academic goals; etc. Now list the pros and cons of all the educational options for high school; how does each educational option available to you help you/hinder you from achieving those long-term goals?

 

Research how easy/hard it is to switch between homeschool high school to a public/private/charter high school in your area. In some areas, once you decide which way to go for high school (homeschool or regular school) you are "locked in" with the decision, as many school systems will not accept coursework done ANYwhere else -- whether at a different high school, or from homeschooling.

 

Are there any special programs your student would want to participate in that can only happen at a public high school -- sports, band/orchestra, theater, special club or activity, special class? Are there community teen program alternatives?

 

List your fears about homeschooling high school. What options do you have for addressing these areas? (For example, fears about inability to teach higher math -- list what options would you have to help you.)

 

List what the advantages of homeschooling have been so far. Do you see these as continuing to be advantages? Do the strengths/advantages of homeschooling outweigh the weaknesses/disadvantages?

 

Take into consideration your DD:

- what does she want to do for high school?

- what are her future goals?

- will homeschooling or something else best help her reach those goals?

- does she have some needs or interests?

- which educational option allows her needs to be met, or interests to be developed?

 

 

Addressing the first concern, about fear of homeschooling high school:

Sometimes it's not so scary if you can list what you would actually need to do in order to homeschool high school. Here are the guidelines for credits for high school graduation in DE:

- 4 years = English (including literature, writing skills, oral communication skills)

- 4 years = Math (including Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2)

- 3 years = Science (with labs -- Biology, Chemistry, and Physics, or their equivalents)

- 3 years = Social Studies (including history, geography, civics, and economics)

- 1 year = Computer Literacy (if not completed in middle school)

 

It's always good to remember that the goal is not *just* meeting high school graduation, but also making sure your student is able to meet most college admission requirements:

- 4 years = English

- 4 years = Math

- 3 years = Science

- 2-3 years = Social Studies

- 2-3 years = Foreign Language

 

That's not too hard of a list to accomplish -- just 5-6 classes per year to research, plan for, and oversee.

 

Even better for allaying fears -- can you talk to some local homeschoolers who are homeschooling high school students, and have graduated students? They will be able to talk you through any regulations or "hoops"; suggest curriculum and helps; give you the "inside scoop" on local outsourcing options and extracurricular opportunities -- and provide great moral support. Check out this list to see if there are any DE groups near you.

 

 

Finally, in case I am totally off-base in my reading of your post :tongue_smilie:, and what you really DO want is answers to your outsourcing poll questions, here you go:

 

 

Do you outsource? If so, which? And why?

 

We homeschooled virtually all subjects for all 4 years of high school, but yes, we chose to have both DSs do foreign language via dual enrollment at the local community college (CC) in their senior year for several reasons:

1. I did not feel comfortable/confident in overseeing it myself.

2. I wanted them to get the foreign language conversation practice that comes from being in the classroom and attending the language lab sessions.

3. I wanted them to "dip a toe" into what college was like in a very gentle way in their senior year.

4. It allowed us to "speed up" the foreign language (here, 2 semesters of foreign language at the CC = 2 *years* of high school foreign language)

 

Reasons Why People Outsource:

- parent not comfortable/knowledgeable enough to do the subject at home (example: higher math courses)

- outsourcing has better facilities than home (example: science labs)

- course is hard to replicate at home (example: foreign language conversation practice; public speaking)

- parent wants to give the student some experience in independent learning, managing homework/assignments, and practicing classroom skills

- outsourcing option may be a better learning style/teaching style match up for the student

- student *wants* to be in a different learning environment than home

- allows student to take advantage of an awesome outsourcing opportunity

- outsourcing a stepping stone/pre-requisite to a great program or opportunity for later in high school or college

- motivated student wants to earn college credits, even a 2-year degree, while still in high school thru dual enrollment

- family lives in a state which highly regulates homeschooling and it is much easier to outsource to meet state regulations by outsourcing

 

 

What manner(s) of outsourcing do you use?[/b] Co-op? Tutor? Public school? Dual enrollment at CC? Or at a college/university? Online academy? Single online courses? Other?

 

In addition to the outsourcing options you have listed, there are other helps for a parent who is feeling uncertain about homeschooling high school:

- curriculum with DVD lessons (examples: Chalkdust or Teaching Textbook Math; Bob Jones Science)

- interactive or online curriculum (examples: Thinkwell; Kinetic Textbooks)

- free online video tutorials (examples: Khan Academy; Bright Storm)

- "mini co-op" -- get together with 1 or a few families once a week or every other week and do the science labs together, or have the Literature discussion, or ________ (fill in the blank of whatever area you feel weak in or feel your student would prefer doing with others)

- "team teach" with another local homeschooling parent -- they teach their strong subject to their student and your student; you teach your strong subject to their student and your student

 

 

Please mention if you're also teaching other students, if that info isn't in your signature.

 

Both of our DSs have now graduated from homeschooling and are taking classes at the local community college. I am teaching 2 classes at our local homeschooling co-op -- both are for grade 7-12 students, and I am offering a "for credit" option for both classes, which requires additional work from the student in order to earn credit and a grade for the high school transcript. This is a stretch for me, as I am not a trained classroom teacher -- I just have a passion I'd like to share, and I really enjoy children of all ages.

 

Hope something here is of help! BEST of luck as you think about and research your high school options! Warmly, Lori D.

Edited by Lori D.
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Sometimes we outsource because I completely lack the expertise to teach the course: foreign language. I don't speak French, German, or Italian. And I have NO interest in learning them.

 

Sometimes I could teach the course, but we find a teacher who can make the material really come alive: I was a music major before I was an engineering major. I could teach music theory, but we have found a uni prof who is glad to work with ds.

 

Sometimes I would love to teach a course, but don't have the time: math. I tag-teach with Dana Mosely. He covers the instruction. I spend my time working with each child to build on his foundation.

 

Sometimes we outsource because my kids want the credit: dd will graduate with 30+ college credits. Most of them will transfer which means she will have room in her schedule at college to take courses that interest her.

 

Sometimes (and here's the biggest driving factor) we outsource to build the child's self-efficacy. A HUGE factor. Kids need to feel their own power. Self-confidence and self-efficacy are two very different things. I have really focused on SE with dd. And it's working well. She has a clear picture of her strengths and weaknesses. And she has repeatedly felt the power of her own motor. (AND she knows what happens when she throttles it back and goofs off. HUGE deal!!!) Outsourcing has been a huge part of that ramp with this child. I would love to chat more about this, but I have to dash.

 

But I outsource with that in mind.

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

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Lori,

This was a great post.

 

I think I need to put some of these words where I'll see them early in the morning.

 

We outsource foreign language. Although I've learned several languages and can explain them, I've lost a lot of fidelity in German since we moved away and I never took Latin myself. When the languages depended on my efforts they didn't get done.

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I outsourced Microbio, Effective Speaking, and senior English (freshman college level) for my guys. Middle son did all three. Oldest just did English.

 

All of these were at our local cc. It cost us $880 for the Microbio and $660 for the others ($220 per credit hour), so it wasn't cheap. Only the English my oldest took transferred into college credits due to the fact that middle son chose a higher level school that doesn't give credit for dual enrollment classes. (I'm ok with that.) We picked Microbio because it was a lab science that's very difficult to do at home. We picked Effective Speaking to help with any sort of speaking issue (including college interviews). We picked English because that's my least favorite class and I wanted my guys to have a course from someone who loved it.

 

Middle son also did two AP classes (Stats, Psych), but he self-studied those at home. They weren't outsourced, but he did get college credit for both due to getting 5s on the tests.

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Do you outsource any high school classes?

 

If so, which?

 

And why?

 

What manner(s) of outsourcing do you use? Co-op? Tutor? Public school? Dual enrollment at CC? Or at a college/university? Online academy? Single online courses? Other?

 

Please mention if you're also teaching other students, if that info isn't in your signature.

 

I always outsource writing. Even at a late elementary level. I believe good habits come early. They can be corrected later but usually with angst. I have a friend who has a masters in English. She teaches outside writing classes and has since she stopped teaching at the private schools. She teaches most of it. Then our co-op has tried to get more academic classes for high school - they were losing the high school population. Some of those are "English" classes. Or can be used as some portion of an English credit. Then there is HARC - Homeschool Academic Resource Center. It's more like group tutoring. The classes are 15 or less.

 

Oldest dd took a science class at HARC last ear because I was not going to teach her anatomy! She loved it!

 

Foreign Language is outsourced as well. One dd takes it online. The other takes it at HARC. Who knows what ds will do.

 

Oldest dd is taking mostly classes at the CC this year. But that's not because of a need to outsource. It's to get college credit that is "free". Books are still expensive! Hopefully by the end of this school year she will place out of biology, freshman English, precalc and calculus at the college level.

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Mostly outsourced locally last year, this year only for lit, history, and Latin. I do it to give them someone else who nags;), and for subjects that I'm not capable in and/or not as well-versed in. We prefer the established online providers although we found some good local teachers.

 

Do your homework though. We had a iffy outsourced middle school experience. The other parents were OK, but I ended up teaching some of the subjects myself. Lesson learned.

 

We homeschool because I know that I do it better than the local schools despite all of their marketing. After all of their promises of honors classes, AP classes, in-house dual enrollment, etc., the results are disappointing when you start digging into the details.

Edited by GVA
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Not much - we stick pretty closely to WTM.

 

I have outsourced a few 9th-10th grade classes at a local co-op and always regretted it. I wanted my kids to experience a classroom and be held accountable to someone else, but the classes were always a joke. They were never rigorous enough - even the ones that claim to be "pre-AP". I don't understad why this is the case. I have sat in on several classes at various co-ops, hoping I would find a good one, but it always seems that the kids just don't care/would rather goof off, and the teacher is doing the best they can.

 

I have also had my kids take a few online classes with mixed success. I have found almost all of these to be much more rigorous than the co-op. I especially liked the Patrick Henry College AP Prep class; it was very well organized. I would not, however, take their DC classes because their accreditation is not recognized by most other schools.

 

I am outsourcing more DC classes in 11th-12th grade at our local CC. We are choosing to take classes that will NOT be in my son's area of major. Many universities seem to want students to take all of their classes in their major from the university. So, my liberal-arts minded future law student is taking math, science and foreign language at our local CC. Again, I've been told they are not rigorous, but since these classes are not his focus, I'm okay with that.

 

My philosophy is teaching the things at home that are really important to me - history/philosophy/worldview kind of things. Lots of great books. Rhetoric, logic and writing. Teaching the kids to THINK. These are the reasons I chose to homeschool in the first place and the things that make homeschooling so special. I outsource the courses I cannot (calculus, foreign language) or don't want to teach (chem lab in my kitchen?) And I think a few DC classes help verify the mommy transcript.

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We're doing most of our own high schooling. I do plan to outsource 2nd year Spanish and music appreciation next year with online

correspondence programs. We'll probably do some focused English unit studies online too in a few years, and I'd like to send DS to CC for advanced music composition or whatever he wants to take.

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Overall, I outsource because I believe in a teaching model more than a self-study model. I am one person and can only handle a certain number of classes, spread over three dc.

 

Practically that means:

 

Things I think someone else can teach better than I can:

 

Latin III and IV (Lukeion) - I can handle Wheelock's, with a nice chapter format and my handy lesson plans and answer key. But after that, I want someone to have the time to really work dd through translations (preferably someone who lives and breathes Latin,) so I'm outsourcing it.

 

Music lessons - I don't play the instruments, so you know...

 

Spanish 2 (PS) - I don't know Spanish. I want daily instruction from someone who does.

 

Things I just deciding to send out to save me time though I could handle them:

 

Calculus (PS) - I've been outsourcing math instruction to VideoText, just having to keep up with questions and grading. But the local PS has an excellent math teacher who also teaches Calc at the CC, so off they go. :D

 

Chemistry (CC) - I don't want to teach AP Chem at home. DE is free since dd is taking Calc at the PS, and the CC's reputation is good.

 

Physics - I just don't have the time. :001_smile:

 

I find that outsourcing math, science, and foreign language and keeping English, history, logic, and rhetoric at home allow us to achieve the best classical education available to us.

Edited by angela in ohio
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We look at the opportunities available to us, and decide if they offer us something more than we could get by doing a course ourselves.

 

We've outsourced science -- biology, physics, chemistry -- because we happened to find excellent teachers offering group classes for homeschool students. One was in a co-op, one was at a learning center, the other was a guy who offers the particular class every few years.

 

We've outsourced some composition at a local learning center. The attraction was that our student was at the learning center anyway for science, the class times meshed nicely, the teacher was competent, the monetary and time investment were modest.

 

We've outsourced some arts to experts. We've outsourced theatre-related subjects to groups with the resources to put on "real" productions.

 

This year our student is dual enrolled for Spanish and English. We want her to experience a bit of what college is like. We think this will help the eventual transition to full-time student at a larger university. You know how we often joke that elementary school teaches kids how to line up? Dual enrollment teaches kids that professors don't differentiate between excused and unexcused absences.

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From the wording of your post, it sounds like what you most concerned about is:

1. fears about homeschooling high school

2. how to decide about high school educational options

 

 

Yep!

 

 

Addressing the second concern first:

Gently, I'm not sure a poll about why/why not other homeschoolers outsourced in high school will really help you decide what is best for *your* family to go with a charter high school, umbrella school, or homeschool, as each family's life circumstances, student educational needs, parent abilities, and local educational opportunities are so very different.

 

What might help you better at this point is to think about/write down your goals for your student -- life skills development; character; spiritual goals; academic goals; etc. Now list the pros and cons of all the educational options for high school; how does each educational option available to you help you/hinder you from achieving those long-term goals?

 

This is exactly where dh and I are right now. We have lists upon lists.

 

 

Research how easy/hard it is to switch between homeschool high school to a public/private/charter high school in your area. In some areas, once you decide which way to go for high school (homeschool or regular school) you are "locked in" with the decision, as many school systems will not accept coursework done ANYwhere else -- whether at a different high school, or from homeschooling.

 

Are there any special programs your student would want to participate in that can only happen at a public high school -- sports, band/orchestra, theater, special club or activity, special class? Are there community teen program alternatives?

 

 

Two very good points for me to consider.

 

List your fears about homeschooling high school. What options do you have for addressing these areas? (For example, fears about inability to teach higher math -- list what options would you have to help you.)

 

List what the advantages of homeschooling have been so far. Do you see these as continuing to be advantages? Do the strengths/advantages of homeschooling outweigh the weaknesses/disadvantages?

 

Take into consideration your DD:

- what does she want to do for high school?

- what are her future goals?

- will homeschooling or something else best help her reach those goals?

- does she have some needs or interests?

- which educational option allows her needs to be met, or interests to be developed?

 

 

 

I'm not really afraid of homeschooling high school. I know I can handle the maths and sciences without a problem, history too. Literature and writing are not my favorites though I'm sure we would do fine. I definitely would need to find a source for foreign language instruction!

 

I'll continue in a second post. Doing this on an iPad is tricky :tongue_smilie:

 

Hope something here is of help! BEST of luck as you think about and research your high school options! Warmly, Lori D.

 

Thank you so much for your time!

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Both of my dds did community college instead of high school, although younger dd did a biology class with a small group and a tutor. Otherwise, both enrolled in the c.c. when they were 14.

 

I couldn't see doing four years of high school (and why is four the magic number? Who decided that??), then going to college and repeating those courses in college's lower division requirements.

 

This was easy to do in California than in many other states. Cali's c.c. don't require SAT/ACT or high school transcripts (many have placement tests for math and English skills). Tuition is low. Students can go to any c.c. they want--no districts, no out-of-district tuition. C.c. transfer students are guaranteed to be admitted into CalState or UC, ahead of high school grads (although they might not get the campus they want if their degrees are impacted at that campus).

 

Seemed like a win-win to me.

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"think about/write down your goals for your student -- life skills development; character; spiritual goals; academic goals; etc. Now list the pros and cons of all the educational options for high school; how does each educational option available to you help you/hinder you from achieving those long-term goals?"

 

This is exactly where dh and I are right now. We have lists upon lists...

 

I'm not really afraid of homeschooling high school. I know I can handle the maths and sciences without a problem, history too. Literature and writing are not my favorites though I'm sure we would do fine.

 

 

Sounds like you are in good shape! You are working out what your goals are; you're researching your options; and you're not afraid of homeschooling high school -- I'd say you are WAY ahead of the curve and will be great! :)

 

Again, to see that you are well ahead on your high school planning, check out this past thread on High School Time Table (what to be doing and when for homeschooling high school). Obviously, this will vary a bit from family to family based on student needs/interests, BUT... Here's an abbreviated "schedule" -- notice you do NOT have to know all this or do all of this (depends on the student) -- AND, you DON'T have to know/do all this before starting 9th grade! Just take it one step at a time as is needed:

 

 

GRADES 8-9

1. High School Plan: make PENCIL plan of required classes, how many classes/when, etc.

2. Record Keeping: set up systems for record-keeping and making a transcript.

3. Information: register at College Board website for free email newsletter with info on testing, colleges, scholarships, financial aid, etc.

 

 

GRADES 9-10

1. General: incorporate learning life skills.

2. Academics: as you decide on material for each class, decide if Honors, AP is appropriate.

3. Outsourcing: research possibilities: dual enrollment; co-op; online; local high school; etc

4. Testing: learn about the PSAT; research/decide whether or not to do multiple ACT/SAT tests.

5. Extracurriculars: expand student's interests; try out extracurricular opportunities

6. Volunteering/Community Service Hours: can expose student to new interests; valuable for applying for scholarships

 

 

GRADES 10-11

1. Continue doing the above.

2. Career: possibly dabble in career exploration; internship; or job shadow

3. College: research possible colleges; possibly tour college campuses of interest.

4. Scholarships: dabble in web searches for local, national, specialized scholarships to apply for now

5. Summer Camps: research/possibly participate in summer or academic camps, internships, other opportunities.

 

 

GRADES 11-12

1. Continue doing the above.

2. Driving: practice student driving; investigate driver's ed/teen insurance

3. Work: help student create a resume if they are applying for a part time job

4. Writing: practice general writing and timed essay skills; write college and scholarship application essays

5. College Search: research programs/degrees, costs, facilities, etc.

6. Testing: take ACT/SAT; also research/consider: AP and CLEP tests

 

 

GRADE 12

1. Continue doing the above.

2. Career: possible formal career testing

3. Academic: plan/execute possible a senior project

4. Administrative: keep up with deadlines; prepare: transcript, portfolio; references, course descriptions, etc.

5. College: send out applications

6. Scholarships: send in applications/essays (many have autumn deadlines)

7. Financial: fill out FAFSA application

8. Graduation: order diploma, cap & gown, announcements, senior photos, etc.; or plan/prepare for a special senior event

 

 

You'll do great if you decide to homeschool high school! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited by Lori D.
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