Would you want your 7th grader to read these:

[ABQmom]

Our family is joining a co-op this year for the first time ever! The group will be reading 10 literature books and discussing them over the coming school year. Most of the kids in the group are high school age, but 2 of the kids are middle school age. One of those 2 is my son who will not be 12 until late October.

 

If you had an almost 12 year old who reads well, would you think he could handle reading:

1. To Kill a Mockingbird

2. The Scarlet Pimpernel

3. A Christmas Carol

 

These are the first few we will read. I know he could read them, but I wonder if any of them would be better left to an older age? Or, would you have any other concerns about your son reading any of these books? I'd appreciate any thoughts or opinions. :)

[justamouse]

That's a great list.

[angela in ohio]

#1 and #3 are pretty commonly read in junior high lit. #2 was a book for our local girls' reading group with conservative picky moms (majority of girls younger than high school.) Only #1 would require previous discussion in our home.

 

Is the class intended for junior and senior high? That's a wide age range for a literature class. I would handle To Kill a Mockingbird very differently with a 7th grader versus an 11th or 12th grader.

[regentrude]

yes, sure.

[Jean in Newcastle]

To Kill a Mockingbird has mature themes specifically the rape of a white girl allegedly by a black man. What would make the difference for me more than reading level would be maturity level - not just to be able to read the book and deal with it emotionally as a reader but to be able to look into those scenes to see the bigger themes of justice, and the fight against prejudice. My ds read it in 8th grade and was able to have good discussions but I don't think he would have been ready for it in 7th.

[Sunshine State Sue]

#1 and #3 are pretty commonly read in junior high lit.

We read #1 and #3 in 8th grade with Lightning Literature 8.

[Lizzie in Ma]

Absolutely, great books!

[marbel]

In your position I might read To Kill A Mockingbird along with my son before the class started, to be sure he is emotionally prepared for the subject matter. It's one of my favorite books, but it's heavy in places!

[GailV]

In your position I might read To Kill A Mockingbird along with my son before the class started, to be sure he is emotionally prepared for the subject matter. It's one of my favorite books, but it's heavy in places!

 

:iagree:

[Mallorie]

My hesitation wouldn't be the books so much as the age range of the kids. I would be hard pressed to put my just-turning-12 year old into that mix, with those books. I don't think he'd get anything out of it.

 

As always, it doesn't matter what the majority says. You know your kids, if YOU are uncomfortable with those choices with your kids, go with that. :)

[Connections]

I would consider what I want my DS to get out of it. Then, assess whether this is the best available way to achieve those things.

 

So often opportunities arise for us as HSers that we feel we SHOULD do. I have been trying to assess things differently lately and really focus on our goals/objectives and then look to the opportunities to see if they will fulfill those goals.

 

I have a very strong reader the same age as your DS. Right now discussing these books with older students would not fulfill our current goals.

 

Good luck deciding. You know what's best.

[Hoot]

Absolutely. Those are great books. My 8th grader read all but Scarlet Pimpernel last year on his own and loved them.

[Storm Bay]

Our family is joining a co-op this year for the first time ever! The group will be reading 10 literature books and discussing them over the coming school year. Most of the kids in the group are high school age, but 2 of the kids are middle school age. One of those 2 is my son who will not be 12 until late October.

 

If you had an almost 12 year old who reads well, would you think he could handle reading:

1. To Kill a Mockingbird

2. The Scarlet Pimpernel

3. A Christmas Carol

 

These are the first few we will read. I know he could read them, but I wonder if any of them would be better left to an older age? Or, would you have any other concerns about your son reading any of these books? I'd appreciate any thoughts or opinions. :)

I don't know the middle one, but my 12 yo ds could handle the first & third one. He might have a hard time with the rape at first, but it would be a teaching moment. He already reads books with death in them & other problems. Most 12 year olds can handle those books. Now I have a dd who wouldn't have been able to handle rape at 12.

[In The Great White North]

When ds was in 8th grade (in a school) he read those. At a Parent Night, I asked the teacher how he planned on discussing the rape in To Kill A Mockingbird. He stared at me like I had two heads and was totally oblivious to the fact that there was a rape in the story. Do guys just miss the fact of the rape, incestuous at that, in the midst of all the racial issues?

 

(ie. Your son may miss that entirely unless it is pointed out to him.)

[Ohdanigirl]

Yes, by seventh grade I seriously trim down on censorship. I think it is better that he encounter certain harsh language, tough ideas, or situations at an age where he is still likely to discuss it with me. Plus, those are all great books.

 

Danielle

[Sebastian (a lady)]

The incest is referred to in just one line of testimony. I'm teaching a coop class of 8th and 9th grAders using Mockingbird. I plan to address it if asked but don't think it's the main theme of the story. However the accusation of assault is the basis of the trial and can't be overlooked.

 

My 7th grader last year read Scarlet Pimpernel (which is a favorite of mine) and A Christmas Carol.

[ABQmom]

Thanks everyone for your input. I too think my son would probably totally miss the rape scene. He doesn't know what that means first of all. I guess my other concern is that he is a young 7th grader. He would only be 11 when To Kill a Mockingbird gets read--not turning 12 until late October.

 

And yes, the class is a mix of high school and mid school kids with 11th graders being the oldest. My dd's are reading To Kill right now. They kind of don't get it, so for them, I really want the discussion. I LOVE that book, so I really want all my kids to like it too. I don't want to ruin it with having ds read it too early.

 

By kind of not getting it, I don't mean the rape scene. For example, one of their questions was, "Why does Scout always call her father Atticus?" I think my statement above set off some of the other comments--Sorry about that, I should have been more clear. :(

 

Mmm... well, any other thoughts?

Edited August 19, 2012 by ABQmom
for clarity of the issue

[rwjx2khsmj]

My dd13 read all three of those last year and enjoyed them very much. We spent some time talking about them. We spent the most time processing To Kill A Mockingbird. It still comes up in conversation as something she still thinks about. She wasn't upset by it particularly but it gave her lots to mull over.

 

I've read A Christmas Carol aloud to all my children.

[marbel]

Thanks everyone for your input. I too think my son would probably totally miss the rape scene. He doesn't know what that means first of all. I guess my other concern is that he is a young 7th grader. He would only be 11 when To Kill a Mockingbird gets read--not turning 12 until late October.

 

And yes, the class is a mix of high school and mid school kids with 11th graders being the oldest. My dd's are reading To Kill right now. They kind of don't get it, so for them, I really want the discussion. I LOVE that book, so I really want all my kids to like it too. I don't want to ruin it with having ds read it too early.

 

Mmm... well, any other thoughts?

 

The rape is described in a courtroom scene. At one point in the story one of the kids (12 year old?) asks his dad (the lawyer) what rape is. It isn't likely something that someone can miss unless they are reading carelessly and I would think it would come up in class discussions.

 

Or am I mixing up the book and the movie? I'm pretty sure it's clear in the book.

Edited August 18, 2012 by marbel

[ABQmom]

The rape is described in a courtroom scene. At one point in the story one of the kids (12 year old?) asks his dad (the lawyer) what rape is. It isn't likely something that someone can miss unless they are reading carelessly and I would think it would come up in class discussions.

 

Or am I mixing up the book and the movie? I'm pretty sure it's clear in the book.

 

 

For me it was very clear, but I know what rape is. I think some kids would know something was up, but not quite get it. I guess I just need to decide if I'm ready to go there yet with ds or not. Ha!

[Heather in VA]

Sure - my rising 8th grader has read both Christmas Carol and Scarlet Pimpernel and will read To Kill a Mockingbird this year (goes with this year's history).

 

My oldest read them all in jr. high as well.

 

Heather

[Heather in VA]

The rape is described in a courtroom scene. At one point in the story one of the kids (12 year old?) asks his dad (the lawyer) what rape is. It isn't likely something that someone can miss unless they are reading carelessly and I would think it would come up in class discussions.

 

Or am I mixing up the book and the movie? I'm pretty sure it's clear in the book.

 

It is very clear and frankly I'm a bit afraid to think that there are jr high kids who aren't taught what rape it.

 

Heather

[marbel]

For me it was very clear, but I know what rape is. I think some kids would know something was up, but not quite get it. I guess I just need to decide if I'm ready to go there yet with ds or not. Ha!

 

Forgive me here, I'm not trying to be argumentative but thinking this through as if it were my kids in a class I was thinking of having them take.

 

What would be the point studying a book if the student is not going to get all of it? It seems likely that topic would come up in the classroom discussions, and then the kids who didn't get it when reading could be confused and/or embarrassed by their lack of understanding, not to mention confused and embarrassed by the topic itself.

 

I feel like I'm missing something! :001_huh:

[ABQmom]

Forgive me here, I'm not trying to be argumentative but thinking this through as if it were my kids in a class I was thinking of having them take.

 

What would be the point studying a book if the student is not going to get all of it? It seems likely that topic would come up in the classroom discussions, and then the kids who didn't get it when reading could be confused and/or embarrassed by their lack of understanding, not to mention confused and embarrassed by the topic itself.

 

I feel like I'm missing something! :001_huh:

 

Oh no! I totally agree with you. If ds does not read the book, I'll have go in another room and read while we do discussion. The co-op is full of all ages--there are even kids as young as 3rd grade who will be there. So, other things will be going on that he could do. Kind of hard to explain the whole situation by typing. I'm just trying to think through whether or not he should read it this year, or another year when he CAN get all of it. Does that make sense?

[ABQmom]

It is very clear and frankly I'm a bit afraid to think that there are jr high kids who aren't taught what rape it.

 

Heather

 

I'm not saying I wouldn't teach him about rape. Just trying to decide when he is old enough to handle that. Right now when he's 11 or maybe in a year or two when he is a bit more mature? Maybe now is the time. That's what I'm trying to decide.

[Heather in VA]

I'm not saying I wouldn't teach him about rape. Just trying to decide when he is old enough to handle that. Right now when he's 11 or maybe in a year or two when he is a bit more mature? Maybe now is the time. That's what I'm trying to decide.

 

Maybe it's different when you have daughters (as I do) but the idea of being in jr high and not teaching a child what sex is and what rape is seems just petrifying to me. In this world many kids are sexually active at that age and date rape (and you don't have to be on a date to be date raped) can happen to young girls. Being completely naive of these topics can be downright dangerous. Not to mention that both of my older girls started menstruating at 11 so being ignorant of their bodies would be frightening.

 

It seems easier to avoid the topic with boys but be aware that most jr high students do know about these things so he may hear from someone else or find himself in a conversation that confuses and embarrasses him when he realizes he doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

Heather

[regentrude]

I'm not saying I wouldn't teach him about rape. Just trying to decide when he is old enough to handle that. Right now when he's 11 or maybe in a year or two when he is a bit more mature? Maybe now is the time. That's what I'm trying to decide.

 

Just my personal experience, but I found all topics that have to do with sexuality much easier to handle with younger kids than with older ones. For younger kids, it is more abstract because they do not feel that it has anything to do with them; older kids are embarrassed more easily.

 

For the purpose of the book there is no need for an in-depth discussion of rape. With a younger student, I would simply explain that rape is when a man forces a girl to have sex with him (I assume your 11 year old sort of knows what sex is, right?), and that this is a very bad crime. I would not use this as an occasion for education about rape, because that is not the point. For understanding the book, it suffices that Tom Robinson is unjustly accused of having done this very bad crime to the girl, and that it is seen as even worse because he is black and she is white.

I find it important for perspective that the narrator, Scout, does not understand more details either, and Atticus does not dwell on it when he talks about the case- but what little she understands is sufficient for her to take a point of view.

[Heather in VA]

 

For the purpose of the book there is no need for an in-depth discussion of rape. With a younger student, I would simply explain that rape is when a man forces a girl to have sex with him (I assume your 11 year old sort of knows what sex is, right?), and that this is a very bad crime. I would not use this as an occasion for education about rape, because that is not the point. For understanding the book, it suffices that Tom Robinson is unjustly accused of having done this very bad crime to the girl, and that it is seen as even worse because he is black and she is white.

I find it important for perspective that the narrator, Scout, does not understand more details either, and Atticus does not dwell on it when he talks about the case- but what little she understands is sufficient for her to take a point of view.

 

This is a good point. I did not mean to imply that there needs to be deep discussion... just that jr high students should know what sex is, that rape is the forcing of sex without agreement of both people and that it is NEVER ok for force that.

 

Heather

[regentrude]

just that jr high students should know what sex is, that rape is the forcing of sex without agreement of both people and that it is NEVER ok for force that.

 

Absolutely!

I was thinking of the 11 y/o and what the mother might feel comfortable with at this age.

[Chris in VA]

Since your son is the age of an average 6th grader, I'd wait.

I wouldn't have a problem with Dickens, tho.

[ABQmom]

Just my personal experience, but I found all topics that have to do with sexuality much easier to handle with younger kids than with older ones. For younger kids, it is more abstract because they do not feel that it has anything to do with them; older kids are embarrassed more easily.

 

For the purpose of the book there is no need for an in-depth discussion of rape. With a younger student, I would simply explain that rape is when a man forces a girl to have sex with him (I assume your 11 year old sort of knows what sex is, right?), and that this is a very bad crime. I would not use this as an occasion for education about rape, because that is not the point. For understanding the book, it suffices that Tom Robinson is unjustly accused of having done this very bad crime to the girl, and that it is seen as even worse because he is black and she is white.

I find it important for perspective that the narrator, Scout, does not understand more details either, and Atticus does not dwell on it when he talks about the case- but what little she understands is sufficient for her to take a point of view.

 

Thank you. Very nice reply and I appreciate it.

 

I never meant for this thread to be a discussion about rape and when to teach certain things to your children. When I asked originally about the books, I was just wanting to know in a basic way, what the hive thought about these books in regard to an 11 year old. You know how some books are just better when you read them when your older? You get more out of them and you like the book better. That's all I was getting at. I don't want ds to not like these three books because he simply read them too young. But it sounds like most people would think they were all okay.

[ABQmom]

Maybe it's different when you have daughters (as I do) but the idea of being in jr high and not teaching a child what sex is and what rape is seems just petrifying to me. In this world many kids are sexually active at that age and date rape (and you don't have to be on a date to be date raped) can happen to young girls. Being completely naive of these topics can be downright dangerous. Not to mention that both of my older girls started menstruating at 11 so being ignorant of their bodies would be frightening.

 

It seems easier to avoid the topic with boys but be aware that most jr high students do know about these things so he may hear from someone else or find himself in a conversation that confuses and embarrasses him when he realizes he doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

Heather

 

I'm not avoiding the topic with ds, and I never said I wasn't teaching him about sex. I really am sorry that I entertained any discussion about the rape scene. My older girls already read or are in the process of reading the book. I personally love the book. I'm not trying to overlook the rape issue. I just wanted to know if maybe he would get more out of the book and like it better if he read it later. When I originally asked the question, i wasn't even thinking about the rape scene.

 

I edited a statement I made about my girls not "getting it" in another post in this thread. I think that confused you, and I can see why now! It was confusing. My girls get the rape scene. I wasn't meaning that, but I think now looking back that's exactly what it sounded like. Anyway, you can read my edit there and maybe that will help.

Edited August 19, 2012 by ABQmom