Double standard for siblings?

[Dmmetler]

This is probably a JAWM post.

 

I'm starting to get a bit annoyed. There have been several times in the last year, and it's starting again this year, when activities have been posted with an age range in mind, but when pictures are posted of the activity, half the kids participating have been over or under the age range. I understand the difficulties of finding child care, but it really feels like my only child is being regularly excluded from activities which she would really enjoy because she's a year too old or too young, and EVERYONE else in the group has the opportunity to attend because they have a brother or sister in the age range. I would understand an older child sitting in the back reading a book while younger sibling is in a class, or a younger child playing with toys or drawing pictures while older ones participate, but that doesn't seem to be what's happening.

[NorthwestMom]

I can understand why that would be frustrating. Have you asked how firm the age ranges are? Maybe they are more flexible than you think.

[elegantlion]

I can understand why that would be frustrating. Have you asked how firm the age ranges are? Maybe they are more flexible than you think.

 

But the problem is the only children can get excluded because they make the ranges flexible to accommodate siblings.

 

I've seen it too.

[Rebel Yell]

I agree 100 million %. :iagree:

 

I promise not to go into a rant about how all of the volunteer leaders from my church;s youth group who are way under the age range for activities go along. And are often in more photos than the actual youth! At one event, there were more leader's kids than actual youth. Gee- I wonder why my 17yo feels she's outgrown the youth group? I will also not admit out loud to not stopping a youth leader's child from running around like a wild banshee at late-night bowling. As in, running into the other customer's lanes. LANES- not just chair area! I figured my job was to supervise the youth group, not the other leader's children. :glare:

 

My advice? If an event or activity of interest comes up, let the organizer know that your child would like to come, but just misses the cut-off, and by how much- if relevant. many times, it will be fine. I'm hoping that for the times it is not fine, no other out-of-age-range children will be there either. If it is frequently the same organizer, and you can pull it off without sounding snarky, just chirpily say that since you've seen other younger/older children at past events you're hoping he can enjoy this fabulous opportunity as well.

 

I learned to do that the hard way- so many times I took the age cut-off seriously, and my DDs have missed out- and would have been welcome. Sometimes "Age 10 and up" really means "no one under 8, but if we say that, parents will be begging for their very mature 5yo to join us." :D

 

editing to add: Only once did I allow my under-age DD to attend a youth group function. Her friend- a leader's kid- was going to be there and the mom begged me to allow her to come so she;d have someone her age to hang out with.

[Samiam]

I bet you wouldn't be upset if you have more than one child. It's a blessing when you can involve siblings who just miss the cut-off age by a year or two, up or down.

 

Have you contacted them to see if they would accept your child, or just getting frustrated without knowing?

[Lovedtodeath]

I have also seen dance classes with kids outside of the age range, but it was because those kids were in competition and basically lived at the school from one class to another... but the casual dancers were placed according to age. It really annoyed me that when we signed up I had the impression that the classes were based on age but they were in fact not.

[Dory]

I agree. I have 3 kids but I have always thought that if my oldest had to wait to be mature enough or tall enough to be involved in something, than it's only fair that the next one have to wait as well. My frustration is more that siblings join in activities that they aren't really ready for. Parents want them in because it's easier on them, but those age limits are there for a reason. Trying to teach a sport when there is such a wide range of ages and sizes is hard, and unfair to the kids that the activity was actually supposed to be for.

 

Also, I find that my oldest likes feeling like there are some perks to being the oldest. He is the first one to try out a new activity, the first to stretch his independence in many ways. Why would I steal that from him.

 

Also, my younger kids find it fascinating to take a small craft, activity, or book and 'watch' the older kids. The big kids become their heroes because they seem to be able to do such amazing things.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Dory

[labst60]

I bet you wouldn't be upset if you have more than one child. It's a blessing when you can involve siblings who just miss the cut-off age by a year or two, up or down.

 

Have you contacted them to see if they would accept your child, or just getting frustrated without knowing?

 

:iagree: I think in *most* instances, it's pretty unreasonable (and almost cruel) to expect a 5 year old to just watch a group of 6-8's do an activity. Drop off with out a parent - fine. But to have to be there and sit and watch - well, we just woudn't do the activity. Only in veeerrry few instances have I had a problem w/ people and places accommodating my 2 that ae 2.5 years apart - even if someone is a "little old" or a "little young".

 

I think your best bet would be to proactively inquire about activities that would interest your dc, regardless of the age.

 

I was in that situation with dd1 before dd2 was even old enough to participate - If she was 3 she was going to be more comfotable and properly placed in the 4-5 group than the 2-3. With VERY few execptions did I ever have an issue putting her in the group that was right for her, despite the age limitations. Sometimes, you just have to ask b/c the ages are "guidelines" - and not everyone cookie-cutter fits in the guideliens.

 

Eta - With my girls, we have never really been "into" sports - so I could see how that may differ. My experience has been with music/sing along type classes, craft things (where a parent stayed to hep), storytimes, scince classes, etc.

Edited August 16, 2012 by labst60

[Dmmetler]

I bet you wouldn't be upset if you have more than one child. It's a blessing when you can involve siblings who just miss the cut-off age by a year or two, up or down.

 

Have you contacted them to see if they would accept your child, or just getting frustrated without knowing?

 

Yes, I have, and been told that it was set by the tour or whatever it was, or that the content might be inappropriate for younger children, or that they wanted to save spaces for children in the age range. In some cases, yes, there's flexibility-but in a lot of cases, I've found homeschool activities to be just as grade/age stratified as in other areas and often LESS willing to consider individual cases. I've had a lot more luck getting my DD into programs that were slightly out of her age range (both above her age, which is often necessary for academics, and below for things like sports where her small size and sensory issues often make being with younger kids a better fit) that we're paying for than with casual homeschool gatherings and field trips. And to be honest, I usually am going to go with the age range unless it's something my DD really, really has a strong interest in and loves and I know she'll do well at.

 

 

As I said, I'm sympathetic to parent needs-but I also think that it ends up being a double standard when you bring a 6 yr old, 9 yr old, and 14 yr old on a tour designed for 3rd-6th grade when the organizer claimed that the material was "too mature" for my 7 1/2 yr old, even though I felt, based on the information given, that she could handle it.

Edited August 16, 2012 by dmmetler

[elegantlion]

I bet you wouldn't be upset if you have more than one child. It's a blessing when you can involve siblings who just miss the cut-off age by a year or two, up or down.

 

Have you contacted them to see if they would accept your child, or just getting frustrated without knowing?

 

The problems I've seen have to do with an event where the leaders get to sign up first and they include out-of-range siblings before registration is open to the general members. I've had it happen a few times that the event is close to full before it's even open.

 

It's not an issue we currently deal with, but it does make it unfair where the rules are bent before everyone who desires to participate has a chance to sign up.

[PeacefulChaos]

I promise not to go into a rant about how all of the volunteer leaders from my church;s youth group who are way under the age range for activities go along. And are often in more photos than the actual youth! At one event, there were more leader's kids than actual youth. Gee- I wonder why my 17yo feels she's outgrown the youth group? I will also not admit out loud to not stopping a youth leader's child from running around like a wild banshee at late-night bowling. As in, running into the other customer's lanes. LANES- not just chair area! I figured my job was to supervise the youth group, not the other leader's children. :glare:

 

My advice? If an event or activity of interest comes up, let the organizer know that your child would like to come, but just misses the cut-off, and by how much- if relevant. many times, it will be fine. I'm hoping that for the times it is not fine, no other out-of-age-range children will be there either. If it is frequently the same organizer, and you can pull it off without sounding snarky, just chirpily say that since you've seen other younger/older children at past events you're hoping he can enjoy this fabulous opportunity as well.

 

I learned to do that the hard way- so many times I took the age cut-off seriously, and my DDs have missed out- and would have been welcome. Sometimes "Age 10 and up" really means "no one under 8, but if we say that, parents will be begging for their very mature 5yo to join us." :D

 

editing to add: Only once did I allow my under-age DD to attend a youth group function. Her friend- a leader's kid- was going to be there and the mom begged me to allow her to come so she;d have someone her age to hang out with.

 

I just wanted to say I couldn't agree with you more! :) I do NOT think that youth events are the place for leaders' kids under most circumstances. It drives me NUTS to see leaders' children tagging along on everything - and then have the mom say, 'well, I didn't have anyone else to watch them, and if they couldn't come then I couldn't either.' Yeah... that's called being a MOM. That's your job, above being a youth leader and dragging your 5 year old along on everything, including overnight things. Ridiculous. ::cursing: (Our former youth pastor would NOT allow it. It was awesome. Because honestly, if the ages are 12-19, no 11 year old has any right to be there any more than a 20 year old, kwim? Ugh. The whole issue just ticks me off! :lol: )

And I agree with the OP as well. But I will say that I personally am such a stickler for rules and age limits that I wouldn't be asking about allowing my child in because they miss the deadline by ___.

I would actually be more likely to answer someone who suggested it (IRL) by saying something like 'Oh, well, that's nice, but I prefer to follow the guidelines that have already been established, as opposed to thinking my kids (or our family) are so special that we don't have to follow guidelines that are in place for a reason.'

That said, I'm extremely snarky about this stuff because it comes up for us regularly. At church someone has said, 'Oh, well, but my son is (insert anything here - more mature than most kindergarteners, 'technically' in 1st grade - but homeschooled and NOT the correct age group for 1st grade, etc) and so he should be able to go into (insert class here that is for, say 1st grade and up)' - I have responded with more grace than my example, but the bottom line for me is that the ages are there for a reason - I will NOT be one of those people who thinks that we can subvert it. It's a whole entitlement thing that I think has gotten into people's heads.

 

And with that, I'll be quiet. :D :rant: This is a very current issue for me, can you tell? :D

[Rebel Yell]

I have also seen dance classes with kids outside of the age range, but it was because those kids were in competition and basically lived at the school from one class to another... but the casual dancers were placed according to age. It really annoyed me that when we signed up I had the impression that the classes were based on age but they were in fact not.

 

A good dance school will place students according to ability, not strictly age. A good large dance school might even have two different age levels for the same ability group- 1st year dancers age 12+, and first-year dancers in a few lower age divisions as well. If they put a new-to-dance 17yo in Diamond's class I;d quit the studio. Dancers taking several classes a week for a few years really are more advanced than most other dancers in their age group.

 

But I will admit- I was the "bad mommy" one year. BabyBaby has a fall birthday, and missed the cut-off for the same level class as SweetChild. SweetChild was borderline between two age groups/ability levels that year... having them in the same Ballet class saved me from making a 1/2 hour trip to the studio on another day. She did fine- was one of the stronger dancers in the class, and I did it with the teacher's permission- she was probationary the first month.

[SKL]

While sometimes your child is at a disadvantage, aren't there other times when being an only child puts her at an advantage?

 

If my kids can't both do something at the same time and place, neither of them will do it. So I've had to hold my older kid back until her younger sister is old enough to join the activity.

 

I'd guess it all averages out ultimately.

 

ETA: sorry, I forgot about the JAWM part. No offense intended, just a little of the other side.

Edited August 16, 2012 by SKL

[Catwoman]

This is probably a JAWM post.

 

I'm starting to get a bit annoyed. There have been several times in the last year, and it's starting again this year, when activities have been posted with an age range in mind, but when pictures are posted of the activity, half the kids participating have been over or under the age range. I understand the difficulties of finding child care, but it really feels like my only child is being regularly excluded from activities which she would really enjoy because she's a year too old or too young, and EVERYONE else in the group has the opportunity to attend because they have a brother or sister in the age range. I would understand an older child sitting in the back reading a book while younger sibling is in a class, or a younger child playing with toys or drawing pictures while older ones participate, but that doesn't seem to be what's happening.

 

I know you said this was a JAWM post, so here you go:

 

:iagree:

 

And FWIW, I really do agree with you. :001_smile:

 

I think you just need to ask if your dd can participate, and if the event organizer is hesitant, remind her that you will be right there to help out, or to take her out of the class if things don't work out.

 

And if the person running the event has no idea how old your dd is, I would just sign her up and not say a word about her being a little too old or a little too young. Tell the truth if someone asks, and say that you still thought it would be a good fit for your dd, so you signed her up anyway. Most of the time, no one will even bother to ask any questions, if your dd is a good kid.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

My kids are 16 mos. apart, so there is rarely anything that they can't do together, but it would really get on my nerves to be told my child couldn't participate and then see that an out of age range sibling was allowed.

[Lovedtodeath]

And if the person running the event has no idea how old your dd is, I would just sign her up and not say a word about her being a little too old or a little too young. Tell the truth if someone asks, and say that you still thought it would be a good fit for your dd, so you signed her up anyway. Most of the time, no one will even bother to ask any questions, if your dd is a good kid.

:iagree:

[Lovedtodeath]

A good dance school will place students according to ability, not strictly age. A good large dance school might even have two different age levels for the same ability group- 1st year dancers age 12+, and first-year dancers in a few lower age divisions as well. If they put a new-to-dance 17yo in Diamond's class I;d quit the studio. Dancers taking several classes a week for a few years really are more advanced than most other dancers in their age group.

 

But I will admit- I was the "bad mommy" one year. BabyBaby has a fall birthday, and missed the cut-off for the same level class as SweetChild. SweetChild was borderline between two age groups/ability levels that year... having them in the same Ballet class saved me from making a 1/2 hour trip to the studio on another day. She did fine- was one of the stronger dancers in the class, and I did it with the teacher's permission- she was probationary the first month.

I understand that it should be based on ability. I was just annoyed that no one informed me of that and I thought she would be in with kids her same age. The last thing my 10 year old DD wants to do is deal with a 5 year old (in an advanced tumbling dance class that is listed as for ages 9-10) who is just as bratty as her brother.

 

Another problem I have run into is that the opposite is not true. Since my 10 year old has not already had ballet for years I can't find a good dance school that has any classes available for her at all. :(

 

Sorry for the completely OT hi-jack, OP.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Lovedtodeath

[freesia]

On the other side of the coin, we miss out on a lot of field trips bc of age ranges that do not include all of my children. I can't drag the youngers or olders along to "hang out" for hours in the lobby. This may happen in your group, too and you aren't aware of it. I certainly had never considered the only child parent point of view. Thanks for bringing it up.

[happypamama]

On the other side of the coin, we miss out on a lot of field trips bc of age ranges that do not include all of my children. I can't drag the youngers or olders along to "hang out" for hours in the lobby. This may happen in your group, too and you aren't aware of it. I certainly had never considered the only child parent point of view. Thanks for bringing it up.

 

Yes, this. Sometimes my children miss out on things because they wouldn't work for the siblings, and that's just the way it is.

 

OP, I am sorry that has happened to you several times. I think that's really rude! It's one thing to say, "yes, we can accommodate younger children accompanying their siblings if the younger children would be able to keep up," but that should apply to all younger children, siblings or not! How frustrating for you!

[dangermom]

That is a booger of a situation.

 

I've also sometimes been frustrated because an activity was billed for, say, 5th-8th grade, and so many younger kids showed up that the activity was simplified and the children over 11 were bored and not learning much.

[Avila]

That is a booger of a situation.

 

I've also sometimes been frustrated because an activity was billed for, say, 5th-8th grade, and so many younger kids showed up that the activity was simplified and the children over 11 were bored and not learning much.

 

Yep. I don't mind strict age cutoffs, if they uniformly maintain the cutoff. We had a drama club at the library that was supposed to be 7th grade and up, and we had more than one family just drop off their 3rd and 4th graders and leave "because it was a homeschool event.".

 

I have three kids 4 1/2 years apart, and I would still rather juggle them and have them all in age appropriate activities than have a free for all where the kids the class is meant for get cheated out of the class that was intended. I do not want an 8 year old in my 13 year old's Shakespeare class because the mom is too lazy to find a babysitter or entertain that child while an older sibling takes the class.

[catz]

Yep. I don't mind strict age cutoffs, if they uniformly maintain the cutoff. We had a drama club at the library that was supposed to be 7th grade and up, and we had more than one family just drop off their 3rd and 4th graders and leave "because it was a homeschool event.".

 

I have three kids 4 1/2 years apart, and I would still rather juggle them and have them all in age appropriate activities than have a free for all where the kids the class is meant for get cheated out of the class that was intended. I do not want an 8 year old in my 13 year old's Shakespeare class because the mom is too lazy to find a babysitter or entertain that child while an older sibling takes the class.

 

:iagree: I've seen this problem go both ways. I signed my kids up for a 3 hour homeschool class at an aquarium. The ages listed were 8-12. My daughter was a month from turning 8, so that was fine. My son is 11, but accelerated. I thought, well even if he doesn't learn anything, the tone will be ok. The organizer in her efforts to be nice and inclusive allowed a couple 5-6 year olds in - only kids and their 2 moms. I know they were bright because one chose to wear their Mensa shirt. The entire tone of the class came down to their level and it ended up not even being that great for my (also very bright) 8 year old. These younger bright kids were definitely ready to have deep content, but not ready to receive it and question it in a group setting the same way a bright older child would. And even if a 5 year old were ready for Harvard, my 11 year old is still not going to want to be in a class with them. Something happens at some point where kids really do want to be with age peers and up. He just shut down in this class and was completely unwilling to participate.

 

I find the best classes for my kids are those that are taught by an expert, are open ended, and can have them with bright same age peers. I have not had great luck with homeschool classes for my kids. Sometimes even those that are targeted towards GT/accelerated kids.

[catz]

That is a booger of a situation.

 

I've also sometimes been frustrated because an activity was billed for, say, 5th-8th grade, and so many younger kids showed up that the activity was simplified and the children over 11 were bored and not learning much.

 

:iagree: This exactly. I feel like most teachers that work with school groups have a radar for the youngest in the group and targets there. It's kind of magical how it happens. :glare: I know organizers who've been frustrated trying to organize a high school level tour to an art museum, allow a few younger sibs in, and suddenly it's an elementary level tour.

[KungFuPanda]

This is probably a JAWM post.

 

I'm starting to get a bit annoyed. There have been several times in the last year, and it's starting again this year, when activities have been posted with an age range in mind, but when pictures are posted of the activity, half the kids participating have been over or under the age range. I understand the difficulties of finding child care, but it really feels like my only child is being regularly excluded from activities which she would really enjoy because she's a year too old or too young, and EVERYONE else in the group has the opportunity to attend because they have a brother or sister in the age range. I would understand an older child sitting in the back reading a book while younger sibling is in a class, or a younger child playing with toys or drawing pictures while older ones participate, but that doesn't seem to be what's happening.

 

I would make a point of asking. Some events have definite ages, and some have a target age for materials. I don't know your organizers, but their thinking may be: "I'll plan this class for my 11-year-old and advertise a 10-12 age range. I know that my 9-year old and Susie's 9-year-old will likely attend BUT if I advertise for a 9-12 range folks will want to bring 7-year-olds."

 

It's tricky to organize things because you feel like you're volunteering your time and energy to do these cool things for your kids and their friends and inevitably someone will take issue with how you do it. Personally, I can barely keep up with my own family so the unique needs of other families will not be on my radar if they never directly ask me about my planning strategies. Also, my goal may be to achieve a critical mass so that I can get a trip planned for my children without getting a migraine. My goal is never to include every possible 10-year-old homeschooler who may know a child who is attending.

 

Now, I don't know the OP, so she COULD be dealing with some cliquey women who have signed on to plan events for a particular age group (perhaps in a co-op), but bend the rules for only a handful of kids and nobody else. OR, they could just be going about their lives, going on field trips with their friends, and not realize they're offending people or are expected to make plans for other families.

 

Sooooo . . .I'm gonna need more details. :D.

 

Disclaimer: Take my post with a grain of salt. I've actually been cornered by a lady I barely knew who was annoyed that the field trips I planned were never right for her child. Her kid was 2 years younger than my youngest and I never did figure out why she thought I was responsible for her family. She was new to homeschooling and I got the impression that she expected some sort of infrastructure.

[2squared]

While sometimes your child is at a disadvantage, aren't there other times when being an only child puts her at an advantage?

 

If my kids can't both do something at the same time and place, neither of them will do it. So I've had to hold my older kid back until her younger sister is old enough to join the activity.

 

I'd guess it all averages out ultimately.

 

We have this same situation. My 10yo & 8yo miss out on a lot of opportunities because I can't haul three younger kids along as well. Sometimes it's hard to take, particularly when it was a perfect-fit opportunity.

 

I would agree with the OP with the only exception is if the leader/organizer is bringing her/his own younger kids. If I put the energy, time, and money into getting an event off the ground for my oldest, sometimes younger ones just have to tag along.

[katilac]

That is a booger of a situation.

 

I've also sometimes been frustrated because an activity was billed for, say, 5th-8th grade, and so many younger kids showed up that the activity was simplified and the children over 11 were bored and not learning much.

 

This is one of the two biggest problems, imo. The other is that hs kids spend PLENTY of time in mixed-age groups, and it's disappointing to many of them when an older activity allows younger kids.

 

OP, I solved the problem by becoming one of the organizers :tongue_smilie:

It's time-consuming but worth it. After a year, people are finally starting to believe that 12 means 12, not nearly 12, not a mature ten, and so on.

 

If I had a dollar for every time a parent said to me, "Oh, but Precious Pooh Bear prefers being with older kids. He love hanging around teenagers," I'd be rich! Newsflash: Almsot ALL kids prefer hanging out with the bigs, lol. It's not some special quality your kid has.

 

So, yah, if you want something done right, do it yourself!

[kb44]

See, if that were me, and I saw all the ages, I would just start signing my child up to participate in whatever we choose. And, I have done that. I don't think it's that big of a deal to go a little over or under, but you have to be the one to just go for it, no matter what the age designates. That's a rule I would be willing to break/overlook.