Youth LEADER Concerns

[Anne in CA]

It seems like we have Youth Pastor Concerns regularly, but I am having Youth Leader Worries, lol. Looking for some thoughts.

 

My older dd is my step dd. She is 12 years older than my youngest dd, who is going to junior high camp this morning. I just found out that she will not be in the cabin that I thought she would be in, with the leader I thought she would have. The leader she will have is difficult

 

This leader is responsible for my older child deciding not to join the army even though my older dd wanted to very much. This youth leader didn't think the army was a good fit for dd and convinced her youth pastor to pressure dd to join a discipleship program instead. They pressured her without talking to me or my dh first. I chewed out the Youth Pastor over that and he was repentant but it was too late. The discipleship program was a joke, dd did not do well and I wish dd had just joined the army like she wanted to. Older dd is still not doing well at 24 and I feel like the discipleship program started her off on the wrong foot in life.

 

There were other problems with this Youth Leader over the course of my step dd's years in high school. She is one of those people who works so hard to serve the youth, but believes that most parents do not know their own children or what is best for them. Hence most of our problems with her, because dh and I do know our children. We spend a lot of time with them and care very much about what is best for them.

 

For the record she doesn't like me either, although she seems fine with dh. She won't friend me on facebook even though she had more than 1500 friends and our sons are friends. I just want to be nice and get along, but as nice as she is to my face her passive- aggressive games make it plain that she doesn't like me. She recently held a baby shower for someone that she must have known I would want to attend, and I didn't invite me. That is one small instance out of many, but still, yuck.

 

I could ignore all this, and I have been, but the thought of her being influential in my younger dd's life is not okay. My only comfort is that my younger dd is less vulnerable about wanting a good opinion from leaders than my older one. Oh, I just want to make sure that my family is not unduly influenced by this person again. :glare:

[Tap]

When you get to the church ask the person in charge to change the cabin assignments. No need to explain, ask very kindly, but let them know, that your dd is NOT to be placed in the cabin with xxx.

 

The people putting on the camp want your child to be happy and comfortable while gone. I find that they are very often willing to switch campers around to make it a good trip for everyone.

[lisamarie]

I would tell the director to switch my DD to a different cabin as requested. It seems that this woman has overstepped her bounds as a youth leader by directly going against a parent's wishes. My understanding from when I was a youth leader is that it was appropriate to give Godly counsel when asked, but that my job was to support the parents unless they were doing something seriously wrong. And any counsel should always be given as a suggestion, not a requirement.

 

Sounds like this woman hasn't learned that lesson and I wouldn't want her anywhere near my kids.

[Teachin'Mine]

I would call whoever is in charge of the camp and have her switched to another leader before you even get there. You have legitimate concerns and, unless she's the only leader for her age group, I can't imagine why they wouldn't be okay with making the change. Hope all goes well. :grouphug:

[Anne in CA]

Oh, believe me, I spent most of Sunday trying to get the cabin assignments changed, but one of the leaders can't come and they are putting all our girls in one big room with this leader. The one consolation is that the leader should be too busy with all those girls to do too much damage, I hope.

 

It is not so much camp that bothers me, as it is the next few years of her making up her mind what is best for my child and going around me to get it. I am thinking that I need a long term strategy. Next year I will be a cabin leader myself if I need to. I would have done it this year but now it's too late.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Anne in Ore

[lisamarie]

 

It is not so much camp that bothers me, as it is the next few years of her making up her mind what is best for my child and going around me to get it. I am thinking that I need a long term strategy. Next year I will be a cabin leader myself if I need to. I would have done it this year but now it's too late.

 

This is seriously horrible. I would talk to the people over her up to the head pastor. Is anyone else having issues with this woman? Any other parents say anything? Might be worth putting out a few feelers to see if it's a common problem or just you. Maybe this lady is just a pacifist and was willing to do anything to keep your DD out of the army. While her actions were completely wrong, it might be an isolated incident. In which case, unless your YDD has plans to join the military, you may be okay.

 

But I would definitely not let it rest without a meeting with the higher ups.

[Anne in CA]

I suspect other people have had problems with this leader also. Yes, she is very liberal and I do think she just doesn't agree with the Army in general, but that is to be expected everywhere in the Portland Metro area. I am not worried about liberal people, in some ways I am one, although I think the Army has it's place.

 

My problem is that when a youth leader and a youth pastor double team a young person without their parents and tell them that God told them that they should do a discipleship program, well, it is very intimidating to a young person. They have set the tone and even when the parents tell the young person that she can hear from God too, and that she probably heard from God correctly the first time, the young person wants to make their youth pastor and youth leader happy.

 

I will have to have some talks with my younger dd about listening to God on your own and not depending on church leadership. I am not sure how to do that, but I am going to have to figure it out.

[Starr]

I don't see how this is going to change. If she is still in this position it must be okay with the pastor. I would change churches. I go crazy with adults who use God talk to direct kids without parental input. :grouphug:

[luvnlattes]

I would be unhappy about the camp situation but I think the bigger question here is what about the rest of the year? Will she be interacting with your daughter on a regular basis? I think the opportunity to have a major influence on your daughter at camp is minimal, but if she is with dd weekly that's another story. It sounds like this woman, and possibly the youth pastor, have no problem overstepping their bounds. I would seriously consider changing churches over something like this.

[lisamarie]

I suspect other people have had problems with this leader also. Yes, she is very liberal and I do think she just doesn't agree with the Army in general, but that is to be expected everywhere in the Portland Metro area. I am not worried about liberal people, in some ways I am one, although I think the Army has it's place.

 

My problem is that when a youth leader and a youth pastor double team a young person without their parents and tell them that God told them that they should do a discipleship program, well, it is very intimidating to a young person. They have set the tone and even when the parents tell the young person that she can hear from God too, and that she probably heard from God correctly the first time, the young person wants to make their youth pastor and youth leader happy.

 

I will have to have some talks with my younger dd about listening to God on your own and not depending on church leadership. I am not sure how to do that, but I am going to have to figure it out.

 

I would pull her from the youth group. This goes beyond just strongly advising. Throwing in "God told me" screams "run in the opposite direction." Yes, God can speak through people, but not like the youth leaders went about it.

[JVA]

When you get to the church ask the person in charge to change the cabin assignments. No need to explain, ask very kindly, but let them know, that your dd is NOT to be placed in the cabin with xxx.

 

The people putting on the camp want your child to be happy and comfortable while gone. I find that they are very often willing to switch campers around to make it a good trip for everyone.

 

 

We just did this. A particular boy regularly harrasses our son and we asked, in writing, the youth pastor to not have them on the same bus or in the same room while at camp. They were happy to comply. I did give an explanation and they understood, completely. This kid was already on their radar.

If this youth worker is crossing the line, you should go directly to the pastor and lay down your boundaries. I wouldn't tolerate it. You shouldn't either. Also, if her attitude is that she knows 'better', that also needs to be addressed. She is ignoring the line of authority for your child and dishonoring you. Unacceptable. Totally.

The verbage she is using "God told me to tell you" is abusive. Of course, a sensitive adolescent would be intimidated by this. This 'worker' has no BUSINESS talking to any kid like this. Advice like this must start with the parents. AND...if God is actually leading, then everyone will know and be at peace about it. The Holy Spirit doesn't tell you (Mom) one thing and a stranger another. I'd be in the pastor's office quicker than a NY minute. How dare this be allowed ?

Edited August 14, 2012 by JVA

[Ellie]

I don't see how this is going to change. If she is still in this position it must be okay with the pastor. I would change churches. I go crazy with adults who use God talk to direct kids without parental input. :grouphug:

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

The difficult thing is that *many* youth leaders and pastors think that parents are imbeciles...which, actually, many are, and that makes it easy for those leaders to overestimate their own importance in the children's lives. :glare:

 

That's why I say get out now.

[Anne in CA]

Thanks for the sympathy ladies. Most of you hit the nail on the head with the suggestions of changing cabins, which I can't do but I sure tried. I also know that to change churches would probably be to change faces but not the underlying issue of control.

 

I will have a talk with the current youth pastor about her. The other youth pastor who talked to my dd without permission is gone, although he apologized profusely when I called him out on what he did. The current youth pastor does know me and will know that I am not unreasonable. He can maybe address some of these issues from the pulpit and let the kids know not to be pressured by church leaders over decisions that are between them and God.

 

She is not going to be pulled from ministry, although I do notice she has been "demoted" to Jr. High. She works too hard and some of the kids who truly do not have involved parents need her attention. She also has the EMTJ personality that is so prevalent in our church that the ENTJ personality is almost viewed as more holy than other personality types. I think this is common to most churches large enough to interest me though, so I tolerate it, lol.

[Rebel Yell]

"demoted" to Jr High??? Those poor kids are even MORE impressionable- and just starting out in their "my parent's aren't perfect" phase. :glare:

 

And the pastor knows enough to preach about youth leaders influencing the children in negative ways, yet he still allows them to be youth leaders? :confused: I'm sure there are many fabulous things about your church, but that is a huge red flag to me.

 

Let us know how it went. :grouphug:

[MomatHWTK]

I would pull her from the youth group.

:iagree:

 

When our children are still under our influence, it is up to us to decide who will have access to them. If someone, however well intened, is a bad influence, it is up to us to protect them from that influence. You know the character of the adults, they have not indicated a willingness to change. I wouldn't allow them access to my child until they do change.

 

ETA: I am currently facing a similar situation. We have had a few bad experiences and then I have to pick up the spiritual pieces and it's just not worth it.

Edited August 14, 2012 by MomatHWTK

[marbel]

My problem is that when a youth leader and a youth pastor double team a young person without their parents and tell them that God told them that they should do a discipleship program, well, it is very intimidating to a young person. They have set the tone and even when the parents tell the young person that she can hear from God too, and that she probably heard from God correctly the first time, the young person wants to make their youth pastor and youth leader happy.

 

 

 

Going only by this comment and obviously not knowing everything about your church and the leadership... this would raise huge red flags to me. Youth leaders are supposed to be a support for the family, not undermine the family.

[Catwoman]

I don't see how this is going to change. If she is still in this position it must be okay with the pastor. I would change churches. I go crazy with adults who use God talk to direct kids without parental input. :grouphug:

 

:iagree:

 

I was thinking the same thing. I would have made a huge stink after the first incident, and if things didn't change, we would have been out of there.

[TranquilMind]

Anne in Ore:

This leader is responsible for my older child deciding not to join the army even though my older dd wanted to very much. This youth leader didn't think the army was a good fit for dd and convinced her youth pastor to pressure dd to join a discipleship program instead. They pressured her without talking to me or my dh first. I chewed out the Youth Pastor over that and he was repentant but it was too late.

 

 

Wow. Where the heck does that youth leader get off, telling YOUR kid what she should or should not do in the future and redirecting her like that? Speechless. I would not stay in a church with people who did this who were uncorrected by the pastor.

 

The discipleship program was a joke, dd did not do well and I wish dd had just joined the army like she wanted to. Older dd is still not doing well at 24 and I feel like the discipleship program started her off on the wrong foot in life.

 

 

What is a discipleship program? Not even sure what that is for young adults. The Bible says that parents are to teach their children when they lie down, when they rise....etc. Not youth leaders!

 

There were other problems with this Youth Leader over the course of my step dd's years in high school. She is one of those people who works so hard to serve the youth, but believes that most parents do not know their own children or what is best for them.

 

She is in the wrong business if she is stepping over parental authority.

 

Hence most of our problems with her, because dh and I do know our children. We spend a lot of time with them and care very much about what is best for them.

 

 

I'm sure you do, better than someone who sees her once or twice a week.

 

Oh, I just want to make sure that my family is not unduly influenced by this person again. :glare:

 

 

I don't know how you will accomplish this while staying in the same place.

[TranquilMind]

Anne in Ore:

 

My problem is that when a youth leader and a youth pastor double team a young person without their parents and tell them that God told them that they should do a discipleship program, well, it is very intimidating to a young person. They have set the tone and even when the parents tell the young person that she can hear from God too, and that she probably heard from God correctly the first time, the young person wants to make their youth pastor and youth leader happy.

 

 

Whoa. This is an abomination, I'd go so far to say. I've "known God" a long, long time, and one thing I've learned in my 50+ years is that God will NEVER tell YOU to tell ME what to do. It just doesn't work that way. God's not a mafia boss. He will tell ME what I should do, and then confirm it by the word of two or three witnesses, as the scripture says. So I will know something one day, and then a couple days later someone will happen casually to mention this same thing, without knowing what I had heard.

[Parker Martin]

This youth program sounds extremely unhealthy. I would not allow my child to participate.

[Parker Martin]

Whoa. This is an abomination, I'd go so far to say. I've "known God" a long, long time, and one thing I've learned in my 50+ years is that God will NEVER tell YOU to tell ME what to do. It just doesn't work that way. God's not a mafia boss. He will tell ME what I should do, and then confirm it by the word of two or three witnesses, as the scripture says. So I will know something one day, and then a couple days later someone will happen casually to mention this same thing, without knowing what I had heard.

 

This.

 

The behavior of the youth staff you described is appalling. I would stay far, far away.

[Anne in CA]

I'm glad everyone thinks this is not good behavior, but I really want to clarity that the incident with the Youth Leader, Youth Pastor and my older dd happened more than six years ago, and there is a new Youth Pastor since then who has been amazing with my son.

 

The Youth Leader in question only works with girls so I had no problems with her in the last six years because older dd was gone and younger dd was in children's ministry till now. The Youth Leader also hasn't been doing as much as she was during the years my dd was in high school. Now all of a sudden she is in charge of dd's cabin, and talking about "pouring into her girls over the next year" and I'm panicked. When the Youth Pastor comes back from camp I will talk to him, I know him to be reasonable.

 

A discipleship program is where young people serve in a church, usually staying with a family, and do formal Bible training with teachers. It is supposed to be a half step between home and college and parents pay for this. We paid $4500 for the year she did it. She also went on a trip to Israel to "see" the Holy Land during her study time. I am becoming more and more skeptical of these programs because they involve a lot of unpaid labor to the churches who run them. One church in our denomination has so many interns that the senior pastor lives in his own garage to house more interns.

[Little Nyssa]

My problem is that when a youth leader and a youth pastor double team a young person without their parents and tell them that God told them that they should do a discipleship program, well, it is very intimidating to a young person.

That is completely inappropriate.

He can maybe address some of these issues from the pulpit and let the kids know not to be pressured by church leaders over decisions that are between them and God.

From the pulpit? How about training the leaders better so they don't use such immature and ignorant techniques?

[Anne in CA]

Ideally I would hope for both training for leaders and teaching kids not to be misled by people who "heard from God". I don't know how much will be done, but I will talk to him. I don't know that I can talk to him about the pettiness of her not inviting me to things, or not friending me on fb so that I could communicate about our sons. They do not hang out anymore, but they used to quite a bit. I can also make sure that my dd is not in her prayer group. I will sponsor another girl's prayer group if that is what it takes, but there are usually several. I have spent the day thinking about it and I am coming up with solutions that do not involve leaving the church. I do not want this one woman to displace me from the church my children think of as a second home.

[Anne in CA]

In case anyone is interested: DD did not end up in a cabin with the youth leader I was worried about. That youth leader will be focusing on girls a year older than my dd and the church got another leader to lead girls my dd's age. I know this is deferring the problem, but she had a great week at camp and had a wonderful cabin leader.