kbpaulie Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 My oldest is 10, so I don't know the answer to this..... wondering...This is not a tongue in cheek or dig, I am really wondering.... At the store the other day a family was buying a $100 calculator for their 10th grader. Not the first time I've heard of this. I don't recall way back when having such a fancy calculator. Either what are they teaching kids now that they need this or what are they not teaching kids now that they need this? Basically, what is different between the higher level math I learned and what kids are doing now? (And my major is in engineering - well after slide rules, thank you.:001_smile:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacus2 Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) Yes, about 20 years ago. I can't figure out why they are still $100, though. Calculators are math tools. At the high school level, math classes should be delving into concepts complex enough that pencil and paper aren't the ideal tools. I wouldn't expect a high school writing class to skip the word processing program and practice handwriting with every paper either. ETA: http://www.bjupress.com/resources/articles/t2t/should-students-use-graphing-calculators-in-the-high-school-classroom.php Edited August 10, 2012 by abacus2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I had to have a scientific calculator 30 years ago. We actually still have mine around here somewhere. I can't remember what the cost was. I know it was more than a plain ol' calculator, but I don't think it was $100. I would guess a less expensive calculator might do the trick but with fewer extras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen in VA Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 We are a math-geek-engineering family. We buy our kids good scientific calculators when they are most of the way through algebra 1 so they can focus on learning the new stuff and not get bogged down by nasty calculations. We buy our kids good graphing calculators when they are in 10th. Why 10th? We want them to have them for the SAT, and we want them to have the calculators enough in advance so they are VERY comfortable with the calculators. Caveats -- 1) After three kids each taking the SAT once, I have had one kid actually use the graphing capability of the calculator during the test. (I don't know if that fact says more about the test or my kids!) 2) We use Dolciani for math, so the text does not use or need a graphing calculator. The kids occasionally will check their answers with their graphing calc, but my kids could easily make it through precalc without a graphing calc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenda in MA Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) My oldest is 10, so I don't know the answer to this..... wondering...This is not a tongue in cheek or dig, I am really wondering.... At the store the other day a family was buying a $100 calculator for their 10th grader. Not the first time I've heard of this. I don't recall way back when having such a fancy calculator. Either what are they teaching kids now that they need this or what are they not teaching kids now that they need this? Basically, what is different between the higher level math I learned and what kids are doing now? (And my major is in engineering - well after slide rules, thank you.:001_smile:) Hi, Mom of college & high school kids here (also an engineer -- after slide rules, but before graphing calculators).... From going through higher level math with my kids, the main difference I see is the availability of the graphing calculator (those are the $100+ ones). The math they are learning isn't any different, but the graphing calculator allows a much more visual approach to learning, especially when you get to Algebra 2 & up. Most modern math books (again, Algebra 2 & up) are written assuming that the student has a graphing calculator. From our experience, used sparingly, the graphing calculator is a wonderful aid to math learning. It was especially valuable for one of my sons, who is a visual learner. He really understood functions much better when it was so easy to just punch an equation into the calculator and look at the graph 2 seconds later. It's so easy to manipulate the equation and then see what happens to the graph -- what if you multiply the whole thing by 2? what if you substitute (x+2) for x? what if you subtract 2? what does it mean graphically when you solve 2 equations simultaneously? why do some second order quadratics have 2 real roots, others 1 real root, and others no real roots? These are the types of things that you can learn by strictly manipulating the formulas, but when you can also see the graphs and what is going on with the functions, I think the understanding is deeper. That said -- I do think that a lot of schools force calculators on kids way too early. IMHO, to be really fluent with math, kids still need to have the +/-/* tables memorized and be able to manipulate fractions & decimals without a calculator. I didn't let mine use a calculator at all until they were in Algebra 1, and then we got the graphing calc for Algebra 2. So... start saving your pennies now for that graphing calculator :001_smile: You might find, like I did, that you really wish they existed when you were in high school. HTH, Brenda Edited August 10, 2012 by Brenda in MA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acorn Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I was required to have a graphing calc. in 1990. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureMoms Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 In 10th grade in my high school we learned how to use graphing calculators, but the school had a box of them so purchasing wasn't required. I was the only one who bought one. I used it a lot though, through engineering school and my brief engineering career. That said, I don't think the math has actually changed. My HS math teachers (who were pretty good) used them to show what a function looks like. We also did plenty of graphing by hand, but once we knew how to do that it was handy to check that our guess about how a function looked was correct. I also did use mine on the SATs. I also remember writing a few little programs to calculate something or other. I don't remember what now. I only rarely GRAPHED with the thing though. The most valuable bit was the ability to look back at the answer I had gotten 1 or 2 or 4 calculations ago without having to figure out which numbers I should store in memory or write down every calculation. Mine kept a dozen or so of the most recent calculations in memory. Also I could bring back up an old calculation and just change a number if I wanted to. If you've just done 189079087.109487 X 56, and now you need to do 189079087.109487 X 72, it's quicker to not have to retype the big numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 We had to have a scientific calculator when I was in school. Back then, graphing calculators weren't even used in my college classes. I don't think they were available on a personal use level. I encourage my guys to start using graphing calculators shortly after they learn to graph. At first, I like them to check their work easily and quickly - heading back to paper and pencil if they find a discrepancy. Later they need them for more complicated problems. Then, as one pp mentioned, they are essentially needed for Stats in today's age (even though "I" did Stats without them way back when). Graphing calculators are a great tool when used correctly. The "problem" occurs when students are "taught" the tool and not the math - when they know to push buttons, but not why. Be careful with that. It occurs far too often - esp in many schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarahillmom Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 We were required to have one starting with Alg 2/Trig. My son is using my ancient TI from college. They looked at it and although it is not on ACT/SAT list they OK'ed it last year since it is so old.:glare: I find that it helps out in the upper level math. Once they can do it by hand and prove that, it does speed up calculations and lets you concentrate on other new concepts. Also it let's you go back and see easily where you made a calculation mistake. I agree for functions they are wonderful for. As far as for stats I have a business calculator that is much better for that. Calculators really are specialized these days. If your child has proven that he/she knows how to derive and concept behind, it is a useful tool to speed up work. It should not however be used to overcome deficiencies in basic math and algebra skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angela in ohio Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Yes, about 20 years ago. I can't figure out why they are still $100, though. Calculators are math tools. At the high school level, math classes should be delving into concepts complex enough that pencil and paper aren't the ideal tools. I wouldn't expect a high school writing class to skip the word processing program and practice handwriting with every paper either. ETA: http://www.bjupress.com/resources/articles/t2t/should-students-use-graphing-calculators-in-the-high-school-classroom.php This. We had to have one for Trig and Calc when I took them in '90-'92 in high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 When I went to high school, we used slide rules and tables for the trig functions and square roots because, in East Germany, technology was not as easily available.... the first scientific calculators were available when I hit 10th grade. The absence of fancy calculators meant that we learned to do everything by hand, especially graphing functions - a skill that is extremely valuable. I see the value of graphing calculators; they allow to do quickly what takes a long time by hand. Sometimes it is nice to just solve something graphically on the calculator, or to solve a quadratic. The big danger, however, is a dependence on the calculator to the detriment of conceptual understanding and skill by hand. (For this reason, I will not let my kids use a calculator for math before calculus where the AP test requires the use of a graphing calculator.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma2three Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Yes, we had to have them in the mid 90s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Yes, about 20 years ago. I can't figure out why they are still $100, though. Calculators are math tools. At the high school level, math classes should be delving into concepts complex enough that pencil and paper aren't the ideal tools. I wouldn't expect a high school writing class to skip the word processing program and practice handwriting with every paper either. ETA: http://www.bjupress.com/resources/articles/t2t/should-students-use-graphing-calculators-in-the-high-school-classroom.php In the example in the link, why would students need a calculator to graph this? This is easily done by hand, and the student gets a much better understanding of a linear graph when he does it himself, instead of putting it into a black box. I have found that calculators do not anything to enhance conceptual understanding. Sure, one can make problems with numbers complicated enough that the students can not solve them easily without; yet the most demanding and rigorous math program, AoPS, manages to teach all concepts at a high level completely without calculators until calculus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannanlee Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Had them in the 90's with Algebra 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugs Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 I have fond memories from my Aeronautics class (c. 1984) I remember the thrill (truly) of finally owning an HP15 (students with more money had the HP40). I was able to store my formula into memory then add new values one at a time. I was happy to plot the lift curve graph paper. Not sure what my point is, but I do know that there is value in learning how to graph via paper. If anything, one begins to recognize where a slope change is going to occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarahillmom Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 The reality is graphing calculators are here to stay. Engineers do most things on the computer now. You need to have a solid foundation and understand concepts however to be an engineer. If you demonstrate proficiency however on paper, it is just as important to learn the tools early on. A kid in college doesn't want to have to spend hours figuring out everything they need to know about a calculator in their upper level science and math classes. Teaching them early on how to use a calculator is important and how to program it. Can you do it all by hand? Yes. But I can walk to town to the store, but why do it when I can drive? Technology has changed and it is changing the way kids are learning whether we like it or not. Kids have to earn the graphing calculator, but with these tools kids are able to spend more time learning concepts rather than doing their 401st graph by hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Scientific caculators were still very expensive. We did not have a regular calculator until late Algebra 2 and then for Trig/Pre-Calc. That's as far as I went in high school - I've had Calculus since - so most of my real introduction to caculators was in college. I make my boys do 90% of their calculations without one. However, when they want to know the square root of something big and bizarre, then out comes the calculator. I've always wanted to learn to use a slide rule....hmmm....I feel some self-education coming on! :D Faith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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