Are AP and/or Honors classes REALLY important to colleges?

[Melissa in CA]

As some of you already know my ds will be attending a private school this fall. We are currently working on his course schedule and cannot decide between Pre-AP English 10 or regular Eng 10. I'm afraid that if he doesn't take the Pre-AP class that he will not be prepared to take the AP class in 11th grade should he desire or choose too. He also has a choice between Honors Biology and regular Biology except they have him in Anatomy which I am thinking we need to change to Biology. Having never had a student in a regular high school I am paralyzed at what he should take, and having never gone to a regular school my ds is rather paralyzed too.

 

Does it REALLY even matter to colleges if they take AP or Honors classes (unless of course they actually pass an AP exam, which I am finding is not as common as one would hope), or is their overall gpa what matters most. I mean if he takes an Honors class and gets C's, but takes the regular class and gets A's...wouldn't the regular class with the A's be better? Not saying he wouldn't get A's in the honor class, but just trying to work this all out in my pin head.

 

I see the school counselor on Thursday so any advice would be appreciated.

[G5052]

I don't have any concerns about college admissions. We're targetting an "upper middle" commuter school, and mine won't have any issues getting in. For various reasons, I doubt that there will be merit aid, and we won't qualify for need-based aid. So I'm not worried about AP or honors for college admissions. Selective colleges will indeed look at AP and honors classes though, and I do want them to take the toughest high school work that they can reasonably complete with good grades. Being challenged is not a bad thing IMHO, but I don't want to overwhelm them either. Neither of mine will do AP calculus, but we probably will do AP English and 2-3 more depending on areas of strength.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

It depends in part on what sort of colleges you're asking about. There are some that are looking for students that took the most challenging courses available and did an outstanding job on them. There are others that are looking for solid students who know how to work hard, even if they're not earning all A's. There are others that will take in most students who apply with a middle of the road SAT.

 

A couple questions I might consider are if there is a big gap in ability and participation between the AP/honors courses and the "regular" courses. You will have students who get it the first time and who struggle in either track. But students who struggle with a regular course may result in the class slowing down a lot more. For example, if students won't do readings at home, there are only so many works you can get through with in class reading. And there will be much less discussion time.

 

There are also differences in AP courses. I think AP English might be more accessable to a wider population than AP Calculus or AP Physics BC.

 

Since we're planning to homeschool all through high school, AP scores and SAT 2 scores will be the quantifiable measurements that help a selective school compare my kids' transcripts with other applicants. Even if every course doesn't have a test score to back it up, a scattering of them can show that they took their academics to the highest level available.

 

But then, they are looking at selective schools and applying from a very competitive area. YMMV.

[Riverland]

It depends in part on what sort of colleges you're asking about. There are some that are looking for students that took the most challenging courses available and did an outstanding job on them. There are others that are looking for solid students who know how to work hard, even if they're not earning all A's. There are others that will take in most students who apply with a middle of the road SAT.

 

 

This is what we have found. The college my dd attends places a heavy emphasis for admission on taking the "highest level available" classes during high school. The high school counselor has to verify with the college the level of classes the student took. This makes it tougher on kids at large high schools that offer many AP's.

[TammyS]

You want, if able, to do as many AP/honors courses as your child is capable partly to impress colleges, but also to best prepare him for college (especially since a lot of regular courses tend to be dumbed way down).

 

Now, the question of whether or not he's prepared is best answered by evaluating two things:

 

1. The syllabi for the two courses. Sometimes there is a huge gap - but sometimes not as much as you think. I remember taking honors chem in high school after finding out that it was all the same material, just that the honors class was also doing the math portion, which was algebra (which was no big deal for me at that time).

 

2. If possible, talk to the teachers of the AP courses and show them some samples of your child's work in that area. Ask them to give an honest assessment of whether he would be able to keep up. Even if there are weaknesses, just an awareness of them ahead of time can give you chance to work on them and get them under control. If he's not able to do it, then you will have saved everyone some headache.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

You want, if able, to do as many AP/honors courses as your child is capable partly to impress colleges, but also to best prepare him for college (especially since a lot of regular courses tend to be dumbed way down).

 

Now, the question of whether or not he's prepared is best answered by evaluating two things:

 

1. The syllabi for the two courses. Sometimes there is a huge gap - but sometimes not as much as you think. I remember taking honors chem in high school after finding out that it was all the same material, just that the honors class was also doing the math portion, which was algebra (which was no big deal for me at that time).

 

2. If possible, talk to the teachers of the AP courses and show them some samples of your child's work in that area. Ask them to give an honest assessment of whether he would be able to keep up. Even if there are weaknesses, just an awareness of them ahead of time can give you chance to work on them and get them under control. If he's not able to do it, then you will have saved everyone some headache.

 

I agree with the bolded too. I know where I hope to move my kids over the space of four years of high school. But I have to be careful not to try to move from middle school paragraph writing directly to AP essays or from algebra directly to calculus.

 

I try to keep both my goals and a realistic assessment of where they are right now in mind. I try to teach them and stretch them and challenge them without also overwhelming them.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

One last thought is that it's not too early to sit down with him and talk about what hopes he has for career and/or college and then look at sample college requirements.

 

I do interviews and information events for my alma mater. There is nothing so frustrating as talking to someone who is really interested, but is no where close to having the coursework and/or grades to be accepted. If I can talk with them in 7th-10th grade, the die may not yet be cast. By junior year it's pretty hard to shift gears. By senior year, it's pretty much about paperwork rather than preparation.

 

So I would be loathe to start closing doors already with choosing lower level courses. See if you can get your son to agree to work really hard, knowing there will be some period of learning curve and adjustment, just to keep options open. And then be proactive about communicating with the teachers to catch any issues early on.

[angela in ohio]

If the courses are offered at the same hour, it would be easier to drop from the advanced to the regular than vice versa. So my inclination would be to start in the higher class.

 

I know I rail against the "anything homeschooling is better than anything public schooling," but I have to say that, depending on the school and your homeschool history, there's a good chance their honors/pre-AP will be your regular course. That's what we've found with the local PS as fairly rigorous homeschoolers.

[TranquilMind]

As some of you already know my ds will be attending a private school this fall. We are currently working on his course schedule and cannot decide between Pre-AP English 10 or regular Eng 10. I'm afraid that if he doesn't take the Pre-AP class that he will not be prepared to take the AP class in 11th grade should he desire or choose too. He also has a choice between Honors Biology and regular Biology except they have him in Anatomy which I am thinking we need to change to Biology. Having never had a student in a regular high school I am paralyzed at what he should take, and having never gone to a regular school my ds is rather paralyzed too.

 

Does it REALLY even matter to colleges if they take AP or Honors classes (unless of course they actually pass an AP exam, which I am finding is not as common as one would hope), or is their overall gpa what matters most. I mean if he takes an Honors class and gets C's, but takes the regular class and gets A's...wouldn't the regular class with the A's be better? Not saying he wouldn't get A's in the honor class, but just trying to work this all out in my pin head.

 

I see the school counselor on Thursday so any advice would be appreciated.

Take the most difficult classload he can handle. Of course the joke is, "It's better to get an A in an AP class", but colleges do apparently review how hard the courseload is compared to what that particular school offers and then asks the guidance counselor to judge how difficult the courseload was in comparison. So, unless he simply cannot do it at all (like that subject is not his thing at all), then take the AP class.

 

My daughter started in AP classes in 9th grade and did just fine. I worried a bit, but you might be overestimating how well all the other kids will do, like I did.

 

Take the PRE-AP or just jump into the AP, if available (and you have some evidence he can do that work).

[DidoMachiatto]

We live abroad, and as we were considering these kinds of questions found an interesting perspective regarding a regular US high school diploma, as viewed by the rest of the world. According to the admissions requirements of Hebrew University of Jerusalem, six AP tests (including science, math) of 4 or 5 were required to be accepted into their BA program. A US high school diploma is not enough. http://info.huji.ac.il/ShowPage.asp?cat=334&in=216

 

They do offer a year of remedial courses after which they consider you a 'high school graduate'.

 

This shows how we're viewed to the outside world.

[creekland]

I'd vote for going pre-AP/AP vs regular. Education has been very dumbed down at many schools in this country, so regular classes have a high likelihood of not being so good. And yes, many colleges do want to know that he's taken the toughest courseload he could. At our school, regular courses do a poor job of preparing students for college - even lower level colleges. AP types of classes do a better job for college prep.

 

And yes, when asked if it was better to get a B in an AP course or an A in a regular course, admissions folks always used the line, "Get the A in the AP course" followed by "we want to see students challenging themselves."

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I'd vote for going pre-AP/AP vs regular. Education has been very dumbed down at many schools in this country, so regular classes have a high likelihood of not being so good. And yes, many colleges do want to know that he's taken the toughest courseload he could. At our school, regular courses do a poor job of preparing students for college - even lower level colleges. AP types of classes do a better job for college prep.

 

And yes, when asked if it was better to get a B in an AP course or an A in a regular course, admissions folks always used the line, "Get the A in the AP course" followed by "we want to see students challenging themselves."

 

Yep, this is generally the mantra.

 

And I confess that I give it too when I'm doing a college night table for my alma mater. Partly that is because I know that the students from my area who've succeeded in being admitted tend to have several AP courses and SAT scores that are typically over 700 per section. But in part its because of the unique nature of the school and the high number of applications. They have a requirement to be geographically diverse so the better prepared the students from an area, the higher the competition for slots covering that part of the country.

[tarahillmom]

I just talked with an admissions person about my son. When they talked about admissions, there were three criteria that they said they really looked at. Grades, course load/difficulty of classes, and extracurricular areas. I really agree with looking to see what courses are recommended bythe colleges your child is interested in. I have a dear friend whose daughter didn't get into the schools she wanted because of lack of a rigorous schedule and classes taken. If you have a plan freshman year and examine it yearly you can make adjustments. If you are concerned about difficulty, talk with the teachers. To go to an advanced level class later, especially in math, is incredibly hard. But the best thing to do is talk with those admissions people, they love to talk about their universities and will help set you on the right path. Make sure you talk to a couple because every university is unique and has varying requirements.

[Melissa in CA]

Thank you all for your replies!

 

I was able to get my son in the Honors English and Honors Biology. Yay! So now he's got to work his tush off to maintain a B or higher average because he'll get booted from either class if he dips down into a C grade. Eek.

 

School begins in Sept! We'll see how he does. :)

[Laura Corin]

Spam reported - zombie thread.

 

L

[In The Great White North]

 

 

A couple questions I might consider are if there is a big gap in ability and participation between the AP/honors courses and the "regular" courses. You will have students who get it the first time and who struggle in either track. But students who struggle with a regular course may result in the class slowing down a lot more. For example, if students won't do readings at home, there are only so many works you can get through with in class reading. And there will be much less discussion time.

 

 

It depends on the school, of course, but at my high school back in the day, everyone who cared enough about their grade to actually show up, listen and study took the AP courses.  If my dc were in a school that offered AP, I would want them in the AP classes just so their peer group encouraged studying rather than blowing it off.

[MIch elle]

THIS IS OP IS OLD!  :coolgleamA:

 

With colleges it's all about bragging rights.  They want the highest GPA/SAT students that THEIR college can attract (check common data set of ea college).  So yes, IF taking AP courses gives you extra points for the course than an honors class assuming the student would get the same grade (A in AP class is worth more pts for GPA than A in honors class).  This is called a weighted GPA.  I think most high schools calculate using weighted GPA.  (Check with your high school.)  Higher scores in both GPA and SAT give you leverage for entrance, scholarships and other perks. 

 

My older son's private high school used unweighted GPA.  I was told the colleges take those unweighted grades and recalculate the GPA to reflect higher classes, but I'm not sure all colleges do this.  So when he was applying to colleges we, his parents, didn't really know what the colleges were using as his GPA.  It was all new to us.