Cambridge Latin Course or Ecce Romani for high school Latin??

[Lori D.]

Okay, can you tell I am freaking out about what Latin course to start my 10th grader with in just a few weeks?! (lol) I asked about Artes Latinae, and that didn't seem to get much in the way of favorable reviews; so I read through all of the Latin reviews at Paula H's website, and Cambridge Latin and Ecce Romani stuck out.

 

Would love any further reviews, esp., what does a day's lesson really look like at your home? And are either/both of these programs appropriate levels for a high school student?

 

Thanks for bearing with me in my "starting Latin in highschool meltdown" phase! ; ) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[latinteach]

Cambridge Latin Course and Ecce Romani are well-known Latin courses used in the United States in many high schools. (They are also used in middle schools, at a slower pace.) Cambridge originated in the United Kingdom at Cambridge University. They are both reading method courses, which means that there is a focus upon developing the ability and fluency of students to read Latin in its natural word order, from left to right.

 

Whereas grammar-translation focuses heavily at the beginning on forms and reserves syntax for later, the reading method focuses on both forms and syntax from the very beginning. So forms are taught in the context of syntax. Forms are the way the words look -- in Latin, particularly the declensions and conjugations. Syntax is how you put it all together to make meaningful sentences. Syntax involves the rules for connecting the words. So, along with teaching forms, reading method courses also teach basic Latin sentence patterns. When you learn the forms, you also learn to recognize the typical sentence patterns that they occur in.

 

In the initial chapters of the Cambridge Latin course, the nominative and accusative cases are taught, using typical sentence patterns. Subject-verb (Caecilius est pater), subject-verb-phrase (Caecilius est in tablino), and subject-object-verb (Caecilius amicum salutat). Students learn the nominative and accusative cases of the first three declensions as well as the third person verb endings (t, nt) right away as well as how they fit together to create these sentences. They also learn how phrases fit into sentences, first with in + ablative, then subsequently with different prepositions taking the ablative or accusative case. Subsequent chapters teach more sentence, clause and phrase patterns, adding in the other cases, like the dative: Caecilius servo pecuniam dat. As the course continues, progressively more forms and syntax are taught.

 

So, students learn not only the forms, but they also learn typical Latin sentence patterns which help them understand how the forms are used and how the words connect.

 

About word order: although Latin doesn't rely heavily on word order for meaning, there is such a thing as Latin word order. Words are not simply tossed out on to the page. There is a certain way that words fit together. There are very common sentence, phrase and clause patterns. Knowing these sentence patterns and learning them from the beginning will make your life a whole lot easier when it comes to reading and translating.

 

What it comes down to is this: a reading method textbook teaches forms AND syntax from the beginning, using a continous storyline to hold interest. If you hold students accountable, they will learn the forms. (It helps to create the charts as you progress: in the beginning you'll have only the nominative and accusative case, but as you add more cases, you can expand your chart. The chart I would create as I taught the cases would ultimately look just like the chart taught in a typical Latin class. You can decide whether you want to use the American or British case order.)

 

You really need to have the Scope and Sequence with you when you are teaching and learning Latin from these courses. Cambridge's Scope and Sequence for the third and fourth editions is free online: http://www.cambridgelatin.org/cup.html

 

The advantage to using the reading method is that when students get to the point that they are going to be reading authentic Latin, there is a MUCH smoother transition.

 

What is often overlooked in grammar courses is that it's not enough to learn the forms; students also have to learn the syntax. Some teachers make the mistake of thinking that because their students know the forms, that they also know the syntax, but these are two separate parts of learning the grammar of Latin. Grammar involves both forms and syntax.

 

Also true: students who learn via the reading method sometimes don't know all their forms if they aren't held accountable for knowing them. So having that Scope and Sequence helps you to make sure they are learning and retaining their forms.

 

For Cambridge, most students start out by going over the sample sentences at the beginning of each chapter, reading the very simple Latin sentences with the help of contextual clues. Then the grammar lesson is presented. Then there is a reading passage that expands upon the sample Latin sentences, where students apply the forms and syntax learned. Most teachers will use a workbook or additional exercises to supplement the material in the book. (The Cambridge Resource Center has a lot of these kinds of materials in their catalog -- http://www.cambridgelatin.org/resource.html -- most designed by teachers who have actually taught and used the course and generally inexpensive.)

 

I've focused more on Cambridge but the same is generally true of Ecce Romani.

 

As for Artes Latinae, it is also a structurally based course. It looks different from Cambridge because it was originally written as a frame based course to teach the different forms and syntax. AL is typically used by independent learners, learning from a CD or DVD who progress individually learning one bite sized discrete points of information at a time, several points per lesson. Cambridge is chapter based. AL has been used very successfully by many people. It's not enough with AL just to get through all the frames; students have to be held accountable for not racing through the material, just to get through it quickly, but learning the material soundly and to review when necessary.

 

Hope this helps and that it wasn't too confusing.

[Laura Corin]

I've never tried to teach Cambridge (although I learned with an earlier version thirty years ago) but have heard that it is rather harder for someone without a good Latin background to teach. Because the learning is somewhat more intuitive than in grammar and translation programmes, there may be less structure for the teacher. I'd love to learn if this is true from those who have taught the programme.

 

Laura

[Lori D.]

Thank you! This was exactly what I was looking for -- an in-depth description of the teaching philosophies and styles! One more question -- any experience or thoughts on Lingua Latina? Thanks so much!

[Lori D.]

Laura, thank you for that tip. : ) I'm actually pretty good at being able to discover rules and patterns (had a lot of practice doing that esp. with grammar, spelling and math to adapt multiple programs for younger son with learning issues!), and I have had Spanish so I'm slightly familiar with conjugations and masculine/feminine nouns -- BUT -- I'm old (and cranky) now (lol) and would really like to just have THE program that would do and schedule it all to keep it easy for me. : ) Actually, that's starting to sound more and more like an on-line class, isn't it? ; ) BEST of luck in your upcoming move, Laura! Hugs, Lori

[latinteach]

Thank you! This was exactly what I was looking for -- an in-depth description of the teaching philosophies and styles! One more question -- any experience or thoughts on Lingua Latina? Thanks so much!

 

Lingua Latina is different from the Cambridge Latin Course. (You can pretty much group Cambridge along with Ecce Romani and the Oxford Latin Course, which are all Reading Method and structurally based.) Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata by Hans Oerberg is a Direct Method course. Direct Method means that this is a full immersion course. Everything is taught in Latin, including the grammar. But using Oerberg as a purely Direct Method course isn't always practical for homeschooling families, since the parent is generally learning Latin alongside their students. So , many homeschooling families will work through the initial chapters of a grammar-based program (Henle, Wheelock, Jenney) before commencing Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata. If you choose Lingua Latina Per Se Illustrata, either on its own or with another program, be sure to get Neumann's "Lingua Latina: A College Companion" which will lead you through the program as a grammatical commentary. Neumann also provides extra examples, provides context and background information, and provides help pacing your review of grammar and vocabulary.

[HollyinNNV]

I taught a year of Cambridge after teaching a year of Latina Christiana. My students thoroughly enjoyed Cambridge. Looking back, they all said they were pretty bored of LC. However, I was glad to have a year of LC myself, because it helped me get a handle on Latin before going to Cambridge. I still relied on the chants, while the kids had really internalized the grammar.

 

Cambridge was enjoyable to teach. I loved the teachers manual and I think the workbook was surprisingly good. When I skimmed it at first, I wasn't too impressed. However, that was deceptive because there is a lot more to the workbook than a quick look reveals.

 

Fast forward a year-my dd took Lingua Latina. Yuck! Yuck! Double-yuck. I know that there are those on the board that like the program, but I abhored it! I couldn't help my dd. It was totally counter-intuitive to my learning pattern, I guess.

 

I much prefer Cambridge and we are going back to it next year.

Holly in N NV

[asta]

I realize you didn't ask, but Wheelock's is supported 9 ways to Sunday by their website. Their single text plus workbook combo is equivalent to 2 years of high school Latin (or two semesters of college).

 

I was able to buy both books used for less than $30 total.

 

Just another option.

 

 

asta

[latinteach]

I realize you didn't ask, but Wheelock's is supported 9 ways to Sunday by their website. Their single text plus workbook combo is equivalent to 2 years of high school Latin (or two semesters of college)

 

Wheelock's has some of the best online support available.

 

Cambridge has excellent support too.

http://www.cambridgescp.com/main_entrance.php (British site. Includes support and electronic activities.)

http://www.cambridgelatin.com/ (American site. Hosts an electronic mailing list for teachers using CLC and also maintains a catalog of very good teacher-created materials, very reasonably priced. They also host institutes and conventions for Cambridge Latin teachers.)

 

Oerberg is gaining a following too.

http://nxport.com/mailman/listinfo/oerberg (Oerberg Latina Lingua e-mail discussion list)

[LisaNY]

Laura, thank you for that tip. : ) I'm actually pretty good at being able to discover rules and patterns (had a lot of practice doing that esp. with grammar, spelling and math to adapt multiple programs for younger son with learning issues!), and I have had Spanish so I'm slightly familiar with conjugations and masculine/feminine nouns -- BUT -- I'm old (and cranky) now (lol) and would really like to just have THE program that would do and schedule it all to keep it easy for me. : ) Actually, that's starting to sound more and more like an on-line class, isn't it? ; ) BEST of luck in your upcoming move, Laura! Hugs, Lori

 

If you are interested in an online class, The Potter's School has a Latin course that uses Lingua Latina. Dave Spotts is the teacher. I know him from a few Latin email groups. He seems to be an excellent teacher, and a really nice guy.