s/o - Coming Out - How do deal with family and friends?

[Delirium]

I especially hate the fact that I fear these reactions, even though I may be completely wrong. I love them all, but feel like I'm holding my breath and preparing for the worst.

 

I know exactly how you feel!

 

And may her tribe increase.

 

eh?

[Caitilin]

I know exactly how you feel!

 

 

 

eh?

 

May there be more of those who don't discuss politics, money, and religion. ;)

[Delirium]

May there be more of those who don't discuss politics, money, and religion. ;)

 

Ah, thanks for explaining!

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I know exactly how you feel!

 

 

 

eh?

 

Oh, I'm sorry! It's a quote from a classic poem. I thought it was more famous than it appears to be.

 

Simply means, may there be many more women like yours who will teach their children basic manners about polite conversation with new friends.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

(Delirium, this is the poem:

 

Abou Ben Adhem

 

Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)

Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,

And saw, within the moonlight in his room,

Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,

An angel writing in a book of gold:—

Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,

And to the Presence in the room he said

"What writest thou?"—The vision raised its head,

And with a look made of all sweet accord,

Answered "The names of those who love the Lord."

"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"

Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low,

But cheerly still, and said "I pray thee, then,

Write me as one that loves his fellow men."

 

The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night

It came again with a great wakening light,

And showed the names whom love of God had blessed,

And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest.

 

by James Henry Leigh Hunt)

[Caitilin]

(Delirium, this is the poem:

 

Abou Ben Adhem

 

Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)

Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,

And saw, within the moonlight in his room,

Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,

An angel writing in a book of gold:—

Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,

And to the Presence in the room he said

"What writest thou?"—The vision raised its head,

And with a look made of all sweet accord,

Answered "The names of those who love the Lord."

"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"

Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low,

But cheerly still, and said "I pray thee, then,

Write me as one that loves his fellow men."

 

The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night

It came again with a great wakening light,

And showed the names whom love of God had blessed,

And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest.

 

by James Henry Leigh Hunt)

 

Love that one, Tibbie--thanks for reminding me. :001_smile:

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Love that one, Tibbie--thanks for reminding me. :001_smile:

 

You are quite welcome!

 

I'm sorry, everyone, for derailing the thread a bit.

[Delirium]

(Delirium, this is the poem:

 

Abou Ben Adhem

 

Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)

Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,

And saw, within the moonlight in his room,

Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,

An angel writing in a book of gold:—

Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold,

And to the Presence in the room he said

"What writest thou?"—The vision raised its head,

And with a look made of all sweet accord,

Answered "The names of those who love the Lord."

"And is mine one?" said Abou. "Nay, not so,"

Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low,

But cheerly still, and said "I pray thee, then,

Write me as one that loves his fellow men."

 

The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night

It came again with a great wakening light,

And showed the names whom love of God had blessed,

And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest.

 

by James Henry Leigh Hunt)

 

Thanks for sharing, its a great poem!

[Sparkle]

Yes, I have had to hide my religious beliefs from some people. Most know who I am and what I believe, but there are a few I won't tell because they are so absolutely set in their ways that I know nothing positive could come from telling them. These are people that it is impossible to have any reasonable kind of discussion with.

[mommaduck]

Wow! Thank you for sharing that, Tibbie!

 

As I've gotten older, I've come to understand the older ladies that used to tell me, "I don't talk about religion, politics, or money!"

[Desert Rat]

Not Kalah, but I have an atheist friend who asks me not to pray for her. I respect that decision, but I know she gets those comments. You can't really control what other people choose to do, really. Out of respect for my friend, I don't pray for her (needs, salvation, whatever).

 

I'm sure Kalah will speak for herself, but I know that it is insulting sometimes for people to assume you want to be prayed for in a certain way. I have an issue with some prayer requests anyway, but that's another topic. However, I think she is saying that you might feel insulted if she held belief in another deity and prayed to it for your salvation to that religion, basically because you already have a belief system that you're happy with.

 

posted at the same time as her.

 

Kalah :grouphug: I get what you're saying.

 

Thank you, EL! You said it much better.

[FairyMom]

In the thread about different religions in a marriage PinkInTheBlue asked how people deal with family and friends when changing religious beliefs. DH and I, like PinkInTheBlue, have been in the closet so to speak about our lack of religion.

 

DH's mother is a fundamentalist, evangelical, uber-conservative, Christian. Her oldest son is a self proclaimed atheist and this breaks her heart. When DH and I had our first child I began to look around at our local churches thinking we would start going to church because that is what you do when you have a family. Dh didn't want any part of it and after a while I admitted my lack of religious beliefs. Despite the fact that dh started our family down this path we know that MIL would blame me. We also know she would be absolutely devastated that a second son was not religious, probably can say agnostic, and that her children were being raised without religion. Once MIL had a bit too much to drink and yelled at me that dh and his other brother need to stand up and be the head of their households, that they both need to "tell their families what they WILL believe." There was other stuff said too. She didn't outright ask me anything and I didn't tell her anything either. I just sat quietly. It was upsetting and ridiculous.

 

Our homeschooling circle also consists of very religious families. I worry that some would choose not to associate with us and would encourage their children not to be friends with my boys. This has happened to a friend of mine who is not religious, yet she does not really talk about it.

 

We find ourselves skirting religion or just smiling and nodding along not to make waves. We also purge our bookshelves of certain books when we have visitors. It feels ridiculous that we can't just be who we are and not have to worry about causing problems in our relationships. It isn't like we would be disrespectful to anyone about their beliefs.

 

Has anyone here changed denominations or religions and had an uncomfortable fall out with family or friends? How did you tell them? Did your relationships change?

 

Is anyone here also hiding their religious beliefs not to upset family?

 

If you are religious how would you feel if a close friend, family member, or one of your children changed religions? How would you feel if they hid it from you to escape conflict?

 

SJ

 

First of all, so very sorry you're going through this. :grouphug: It's hard to stand up to family and friends over something that is potentially devisive. We left our evangelical church a few years ago for so many reasons, intolerance being the biggest. When we left, we had to face ourselves and talk about our faith and values, what was important, and if we wanted to go back to a church at all. We are going to a wonderful Unitarian church where most people are some form of agnostic, though very spiritual in their paths. I've grown so much in the past two years, and had to share with all of my friends.

 

Most of my Christian friends no longer associate with me because they don't want their kids around us, we can no longer belong to the local homeschool group which we were a part of for two years, and our circle has narrowed considerably.

 

I have never been so peaceful or content with our life, even with all the negatives. If a stranger says something about faith during field trips, or such, we don't say anything, unless it's invasive. I live in an extremely conservative part of Texas, so we are truly the odd people out. My immediate family is great, we just agree to disagree and don't talk about it. My mom does come to our women's group now. :) Some of our extended family think we are going to h*ll, but that's their issue not mine.

 

You're not alone. :)

[Little Nyssa]

If I had a relative or close friend who stopped believing, I would be very sad, but I would prefer them to be honest than to fake it or to quietly disappear. If they wanted to continue the relationship I would. :grouphug:

[Marylou]

May there be more of those who don't discuss politics, money, and religion. ;)

 

or fragrant beds ;)

[TranquilMind]

elegantlion: Not Kalah, but I have an atheist friend who asks me not to pray for her. I respect that decision, but I know she gets those comments.

 

 

 

I don't understand this, really. Why would an atheist ask someone else NOT to pray for her? Why would she care at all? Atheists do not believe there is any evidence that God even exists, so why would they care that other people privately petition an entity they do not believe even exists?

 

:confused:

 

This is like me requesting people not to bow to their dog in honor of me or something. I would think that is senseless and a waste of time, but hey, I can't control what other people do. If it were a good intention and someone came up to me and said, "I bowed to my dog for you today - I hope things get better." Okie dokie! Thanks!:D

 

 

You can't really control what other people choose to do, really. Out of respect for my friend, I don't pray for her (needs, salvation, whatever).

 

 

Right. You can't control what other people do. But if you know God exists, I guess I can't understand deciding not to pray for someone if I know the results of that from past experience, but most of all, I can't understand actually asking someone not to pray for you. Hmmm.

 

I'm sure Kalah will speak for herself, but I know that it is insulting sometimes for people to assume you want to be prayed for in a certain way.

 

Now this makes sense. People should not assume, but neither should one assume that others can be told whether to pray or not.

 

 

I have an issue with some prayer requests anyway, but that's another topic. However, I think she is saying that you might feel insulted if she held belief in another deity and prayed to it for your salvation to that religion, basically because you already have a belief system that you're happy with.

 

 

I would hope I would just understand the good intention behind it even if she is wrong as can be. That's how I'd look at it, I'm sure.

[Caitilin]

or fragrant beds ;)

 

Oh, yeah, them too. :lol:

[TammyS]

Why is it impossible for an atheist to approve of someone choosing to be Christian?

 

For the same reason that you wouldn't approve of an adult believing (in the literal sense) in:

 

the tooth fairy

superman

spiderman

magic

a 6 hour day

a chartruese sky

 

 

They are all make believe, as you believe God to be. So while you might be neutral on it, you can't really "approve" of an adult believing something false to be true. You might not care whether or not your neighbor thinks that The Green Lantern is President of the United States. You could shrug your shoulders and think "whatever". But you couldn't approve of it, to do so would say that you think it is a GOOD thing.

[kalanamak]

 

 

They are all make believe, as you believe God to be.

 

I remember one of hubby's friends asking me what church I was going to send our son to. I reminded him I'm a non-believer, and his take was that all children need to go to church to learn morality, and even non-believers knew this. I told him if I thought church was a good idea I would would be going myself. After I lifted my jaw off the ground.

 

I also remember tears from Hubby's grown kids that our son wouldn't be attending the church they were raised in. One doesn't even go anymore, but was so immersed in it in childhood it was "the only" way someone could grow up.

Edited August 5, 2012 by kalanamak

[ondreeuh]

I remember one of hubby's friends asking me what church I was going to send our son to. I reminded him I'm a non-believer, and his take was that all children need to go to church to learn morality, and even non-believers knew this.

 

My father thinks this too - and he's agnostic! He believes it's true for adults as well. He goes to church with my mother and believes that the members would be aimless without their church. He told me even if you dont believe in the religion side of it, church teaches you morals and how to be decent. He sprung this on me a couple of months ago and didn't actually want to dialogue, just preach.

 

It was a little hard not to feel judged.

[DianeW88]

I left the Roman Catholic church at age 19 and became LDS. This after coming from a VERY active Catholic family...my father went to Mass every Sunday...that was not common for a lot of men where I grew up in the 60s and 70s. I went to Catholic school from K-12 as well and was an altar girl (all girls high school...no boys in sight to do it).

 

My parents handled it very well, all things considered. They were never openly hostile about it, although I know they weren't happy about my choice. My father paid my tuition for BYU and they sent me with their blessing. They loved my LDS friends and boyfriends, and were really pleased with my dh when they met him. I know my wedding was hard for them, since I was married in the SLC temple, and my parents could not attend.

 

I was forgiven for all my transgressions when I gave them their first grandchild. :lol: No problems now at all. My father (and my mother when she was alive) is so proud of his grandchildren...the people they've become and all they've achieved. He told me that he knew a large part of it was due to them being LDS, and for him, that was HUGE.:D

 

My Catholic girls' school friends are also very supportive. Many of them are no longer active in their faith either, although they haven't openly turned to another...a few have, but most are just lapsed Catholics. We love our shared memories of our school days and are very grateful to the sisters who taught us (thanklessly, I might add), and have only good things to say about our alma mater and the time we spent there.

 

I'm even still great friends with some of those sisters, the brother who ran our cafeteria and was just the all around man in charge (of 700 teen girls...he needs a medal), and several priests. They have no problem with my decision and we always visit when I go home (for the Italian festival...I still want to help in our school's Italian ice booth), and have a great time.

 

So, all in all, nothing has been uncomfortable or weird. No one has said they'll never speak to me again. And my former parish priest always has lots of questions for me about LDS theology...studying world religions is a hobby of his, and he calls me his "primary source".:lol:

 

So while my beliefs are now different from the way I was raised, I wouldn't say it's affected my relationship with anyone in my former "Catholic life" negatively at all. Most of the time, the response I got was, "Wow, really? A Mormon? That's so cool!" :D

[TammyS]

For the atheists who don't want to be prayed for, consider this:

 

John and Sue (made up people) are home one evening after dinner. Sue is knitting and John takes a phone call. After John finishes his phone call, he walks to the bedroom and comes back a moment later, two rosaries in hand. He dangles one in front of Sue's knitting to get her attention.

 

He says, "We need to pray for little Jonnie and Betty, right now." (Betty is their daugther in law, another made up person).

 

"Why?" says Sue.

 

"Because," replies John, "Jonnie says that Betty has been reading books on atheism and has decided to be an atheist. He's terrified that if she becomes fully convinced of atheism, Sue will not join us in Heaven, but will suffer eternity in Hell."

 

 

Now, if you were Betty, do you really want to have the MIL who replies, "Let her," and goes back to her knitting?

[Laura Corin]

I don't understand this, really. Why would an atheist ask someone else NOT to pray for her? Why would she care at all? Atheists do not believe there is any evidence that God even exists, so why would they care that other people privately petition an entity they do not believe even exists?

 

I'm an atheist.

 

Christian friend prays for me: no problem, her decision.

 

Christian friend tells me that she is going to pray for me: embarrassing because I don't know what to say. Do I say 'Thank you', which would be insincere? Do I say, 'Don't bother' which would be insulting to her? Do I say, 'Thank you for the thought' which is patronising?

 

Pray for me if it makes you feel better, but don't force me into a corner about it by telling me you are going to do it.

 

Laura

[TammyS]

Do I say 'Thank you', which would be insincere?

 

Pray for me if it makes you feel better, but don't force me into a corner about it by telling me you are going to do it.

 

Laura

 

Two thoughts:

 

1. Does it have to be insincere to thank her? I mean, in her mind she is doing something really good for you, can you not feel gratitude for that (if not believing the act will actually have an effect)?

 

2.I actually agree, that sometimes telling people that you are praying for them can be a burden and should be kept to yourself. This one is really hard to judge sometimes and requires all sides cutting each other a certain amount of slack if someone gets it wrong (we're assuming for the sake of argument that telling the person was meant as a sincere act, and not some way to act superior to them).

[mommaduck]

I'm an atheist.

 

Christian friend prays for me: no problem, her decision.

 

Christian friend tells me that she is going to pray for me: embarrassing because I don't know what to say. Do I say 'Thank you', which would be insincere? Do I say, 'Don't bother' which would be insulting to her? Do I say, 'Thank you for the thought' which is patronising?

 

Pray for me if it makes you feel better, but don't force me into a corner about it by telling me you are going to do it.

 

Laura

I think this is the key. Why ANNOUNCE that you are going to pray for them? I do have friends of various faiths and have said, "pray, send vibes, light a candle, think of me, whatever..." But they are friends or know what I'm getting at.

[herekittykitty]

I have both very religious and atheist friends (and family) and many in between too. (FWIW I am in the in between category.)

 

My observation is that most atheists are fine with whatever other people believe - i.e. they do not feel it is their mission to make other people atheists and take no actions to try to change others. Many very religious people seem to want others to share their beliefs, and may take steps to try to make that happen (ie talking with the person, praying for them, etc.) As many have pointed out, this is usually done out of love or concern, in that person's mind.

 

Please know I am not saying everyone fits these descriptions, obviously they can't. But I think that is why atheists ask not to be prayed for - it implies they are not okay the way they are and somehow flawed. It's not the praying act that is insulting, it's the view from their friends or family that they need to be changed.

 

Personally I do not see it as my mission to change anyone's religious beliefs. With regard to our children, we are sharing our beliefs with them but when they are adults, they can make up their own minds and that is truly just fine with me. When they are older I would like them to explore other spiritual and religious beliefs and use their critical thinking skills to choose what makes them happy and able to be their best.

[IsabelC]

There is a difference between praying for somebody out of love for that person and heartfelt conviction that it might help, and letting somebody know you are "praying for them" as an emotional blackmail technique. I'm sure any sincere religious person can tell the difference.

 

I'm sure you can also imagine that it might make some people uncomfortable if you try a thought experiment where you change the religion.

"Every Sabbat, I pray to the Lord and Lady that you will come to know the Pagan path, and give up your false god." OK, pagans don't actually do that kind of prayer, but just think about it and see whether it might make you a teeny bit uncomfortable or defensive, especially if you heard it every time you met the person.

 

If your 'prayee' is averse to the idea, you could simply tell them that you care and continue to pray for them, but not mention the praying again.

 

It's extremely sad that some people feel they need to keep their beliefs (or lack thereof) in the closet. I know that many (most?) religious people are generally tolerant and don't usually intend to make non religious people feel persecuted, but there needs to be more effort put into actually thinking about how one is coming across. Maybe it's just something that comes of being the minority, but most non religious folk seem to automatically watch out not to offend the religious, but it doesn't happen the other way around.

 

I have had somebody say to me "You can't be a good person if you don't follow the Bible". When I asked in what way I was not good, this friend back-pedaled and proceeded to claim that I am a good person, so therefore I must be Christian but I just don't realize it yet. I hope even the most evangelical reader can see how patronizing that sounded to me.

 

To return to the OP question, I think that the "coming out" thing is mainly about knowing where your boundaries are. It's OK for your religious relatives to be upset or concerned. Even if you don't think there concern is warranted, you can still appreciate that they care about you. It's OK for them to express how they feel, to a certain extent. After all, you can't expect them to be happy that you've just consigned yourself to an eternity of fire and brimstone (or whatever it is they believe)! But it's not OK for them to be nasty or disrespectful towards you, or to do anything sneaky (eg try to convert your children behind your back / against your wishes - and yes, that has been done before).

 

I would agree with whomever it was who said that it's not worth coming out to your 90yo great-aunt who you only see once a year and who you know would be devastated. But on the whole, I think that if you're having to hide your non-approved books before they visit, this is an untenable situation. Keeping quiet is tantamount to accepting that there is something wrong with you not belonging to their faith.

 

It goes without saying that there is no need to explain in detail everything you think is wrong with your family's church. Just tell them in a fairly low-key way that you don't share their beliefs. If you want to request that they stop some particular thing that makes you uncomfortable, do that while respecting that they shouldn't have to hide their beliefs either. Then leave it up to them whether they want to talk about it more.

Edited August 5, 2012 by Hotdrink

[Laura Corin]

 

1. Does it have to be insincere to thank her? I mean, in her mind she is doing something really good for you, can you not feel gratitude for that (if not believing the act will actually have an effect)?

 

 

... presumably I'm, at the very least, having a bad day. If she knows I'm an atheist why not make my life simpler and just say, 'I'll be thinking of you'? At a moment of crisis, you do what will make the person in distress feel better, not what will make you feel better. I'd feel grateful for that: making it all about me, not about her beliefs.

 

If you hear that your vegetarian friend is on bedrest, do you deliberately take a sausage casserole, which you believe will improve her health, and expect her to feel grateful?

 

ETA: I didn't really answer your question. Why would saying 'Thank you' be insincere? It would feel as if I was thanking her for doing something that she thought would change my beliefs. I suppose that if the Christian said something like, 'I'll pray for you - I'll not talk to God about changing your mind on the atheism thing, because that's your business, but only about this particular trouble that you are in right now,' then that would be okay. But no one has ever said that and I rather doubt that this is how prayers go.... I could be wrong though.

 

Laura

Edited August 5, 2012 by Laura Corin

[Rosie_0801]

Has anyone here changed denominations or religions and had an uncomfortable fall out with family or friends? How did you tell them? Did your relationships change?

 

I stopped being Christian when I still lived at home. Other than being banned from discussing religion with my younger brother, nothing much happened. My mother was disappointed but respected that I'd researched and thought things through.

 

Identifying as pagan years later eventually came up in conversation. I don't think anyone thought of it as much of an issue. Religion generally isn't around here since it is considered a private matter.

 

Is anyone here also hiding their religious beliefs not to upset family?

 

I moderate what I tell my mother. She seems to think pagans routinely engage in black magic or something and it might be contagious or sort of accidentally happen to me. I feed her dribs and drabs as she's able to absorb them, and repeat them occasionally until they sink in. She has a mental illness and memory is definitely not her strong point. I have no interest in hiding and she wouldn't expect me to, but I probably wouldn't bother telling her anything since it's not an interesting topic to her except that I don't want her being afraid for her grandkids when it is unavoidable. I'm a very mundane pagan, really. :tongue_smilie:

 

If you are religious how would you feel if a close friend, family member, or one of your children changed religions?

 

Unless they were converting to Whackdoodlism, I wouldn't consider it my business. I would do my best to accommodate them.

 

 

How would you feel if they hid it from you to escape conflict

 

Surprised and possibly insulted if they thought I was going to carry on at them because they should know better. It would be a strange thing to do in our society, though I can understand someone being secretive during their transition period. Who wants to be asked questions before they have worked out the answer?

 

Rosie

[IsabelC]

Yep, definitely very different in Australia. Here it's quite feasible know somebody for 20 years and not know what religion they are.

[Rosie_0801]

They are all make believe, as you believe God to be. So while you might be neutral on it, you can't really "approve" of an adult believing something false to be true. You might not care whether or not your neighbor thinks that The Green Lantern is President of the United States. You could shrug your shoulders and think "whatever". But you couldn't approve of it, to do so would say that you think it is a GOOD thing.

 

I'm not who you were talking to, but this isn't necessarily true. I approve of people who need to believe in gods believing in gods if they are going about it in a healthy way. I would think someone with this need who was trying to be an atheist just as unhealthy as someone without it trying to be a believer.

 

Rosie

[TranquilMind]

I'm an atheist.

 

Pray for me if it makes you feel better, but don't force me into a corner about it by telling me you are going to do it.

 

Laura

 

I agree with that. But I'm assuming well meaning people are saying, "I'll pray for you! (because it is what I know to do right now)" not "I'll PRAY for YOU (because YOU really need it - you are such a mess!).

[Laura Corin]

I agree with that. But I'm assuming well meaning people are saying, "I'll pray for you! (because it is what I know to do right now)" not "I'll PRAY for YOU (because YOU really need it - you are such a mess!).

 

They are taking a sausage casserole to a vegetarian (see my above post).

 

Now, if they don't know I'm an atheist then I'll cut them all the slack in the world...

 

Laura

[TranquilMind]

They are taking a sausage casserole to a vegetarian (see my above post).

 

Now, if they don't know I'm an atheist then I'll cut them all the slack in the world...

 

Laura

 

No. First of all, the sausage casserole is bad for anyone from a health perspective, not just a vegetarian. But you are indicating that something is being offered to the "vegetarian" to consume. Here, the person just does something for the "vegetarian" independently.

 

This is not analogous in several ways.

[Laura Corin]

No. First of all, the sausage casserole is bad for anyone from a health perspective, not just a vegetarian. But you are indicating that something is being offered to the "vegetarian" to consume. Here, the person just does something for the "vegetarian" independently.

 

This is not analogous in several ways.

 

As I said above, the key is that the person offering the casserole believes it's good for the person on bed rest - whether it is or not is irrelevant.

 

If the Christian goes away and prays for me then I have no problem. If she states that she is going to do it, she is imposing her beliefs on my distress, just like imposing a meat casserole on a vegetarian, and placing me in a difficult situation. The vegetarian won't eat the casserole. I won't do anything with the prayer. The offer in both cases, however, shows lack of consideration for the person in distress.

 

ETA: I do understand that in some circles saying, 'I'll pray for you' is almost a reflex part of speech that someone might say without thinking. If I were living in that kind of society, I'd just sigh and carry on.

 

Laura

Edited August 5, 2012 by Laura Corin

[Little Nyssa]

If I know that the person doesn't believe in prayer, I say, "I'll be thinking of you."

[Laura Corin]

If I know that the person doesn't believe in prayer, I say, "I'll be thinking of you."

 

It shows great consideration.

 

Laura

[lovemykids]

You asked "Is avoiding and not participating in religious conversations when you do not share the same views the same as lying or misleading?"

 

I don't think so at all. If people are having a polite conversation about something about which they all seem to agree, it seems odd to just interject that you disagree. If I was with a bunch of women in our HS group and they were talking about how great BJU is, I think it would be rude to announce that I hate it or even that it's not my style. But, if someone asked what I thought of it, I wouldn't hesitate to say "it's not for us." If someone thought I was being misleading by not offering my dissent, that's their own assumption, as my intention was to be polite.

 

:iagree:

:grouphug:

Meditate, and/or go with your gut, tread lightly, it’s okay to peel the bandaid off slowly; sometimes it just feels better for everyone involved.

 

Some people need time to sort through their beliefs; they may be vacillating with thoughts, faith issues (or lack thereof), and reflections, which may be yet another reason for “secrecy”. Certainly there is nothing wrong with that scenario; I find that to be very natural human behavior.

Edited August 6, 2012 by lovemykids

[MrsBasil]

If I know that the person doesn't believe in prayer, I say, "I'll be thinking of you."

 

 

This. Or, in cases where I don't know, I ask if they would appreciate prayer for a specific situation. I've had some people say yes, some say no, and some not really care one way or the other.

[Shawna in Texas]

I'll try to keep this short because after I've read this thread, I realize how easy my family has had it.

 

DH and I never talked about religion before marriage and our early years. The only reason I can think of is because we were apathetic agnostics. We didn't get married in his childhood church because he didn't care to (I didn't know at the time that I would have had to convert).

 

When dd was born, MIL became obsessed with her christening. I didn't have an opinion either way, and dh's only stipulations were that he wanted both his childhood pastors there. DH loves his pastors. One is much older, retired, but dh has fond memories of him. The other showed up right before his confirmation and dh had really great conversations with him. Anyway, he wanted both there. It was a nice little gathering of family. Except for dd. She screamed through the whole thing. I'm guessing that was a little bit of foreshadowing. :tongue_smilie:

 

For her first few years of life, I thought of nothing but religion and spirituality. I knew that there was something missing in my brain that prevented me from suspending disbelief. I dabbled in Paganism and Buddhism. On very good days, especially when I'm near the ocean, I fancy myself a bit of a pantheist.

 

Anyway, I searched out HSing groups when dd was 4, looking specifically for secular or inclusive groups. I think this is very important when you're newly on a path and want to find some like-minded folks. This makes it easier when your family finds out.

 

We never officially came out. DH's sister lived with us briefly when dd was a baby and we'd have discussions about religion. I don't think it ever came out that I was an atheist at that point, but she knew that I wasn't Christian. It didn't seem to bother her. She was a Christian, but we were both liberals, so we talked about quite a few other things as well.

 

As we sort of grew older and had conversations with different family members, but not so much saying we were atheist, but just 'non-religious', folks started coming out of the woodwork. Two of my sisters, three of my cousins, and my grandfather all sort of came out to me. Except for my grandfather, the rest are about still hiding, mostly from IL's.

 

When are youngest was born, we discussed baptism for her. We wanted to get on the same page before MIL started up. We agreed that we'd allow it with the same conditions as before, except the older pastor wasn't able, which was fine. He's in his 90's and doesn't get out much anymore. Shortly after dd was born, the other pastor was voted out of the church. From what DH tells me (from gossip from his parents and cousins) is that the pastor refused to disallow a lesbian couple to attend service. DH found out from his dad that he and his mother voted for him to leave. DH said no to the baptism. DH's mom said that she voted against him because he hadn't been very attentive with the elderly members lately(going to their homes when they couldn't come to church), but since we got the church bulletin every month, we knew that his daughter had given birth two months early 100 miles away. This man was the pastor who married one of her children and he laid her to rest when she was killed in a car accident 7 years ago. DH was hurt on his behalf to be run off from the church he'd worked for two decades.

 

I think when we were firm with our 'no', MIL kind of figured it out. Last year MIL confronted DH about it. He was truthful. She was upset that he didn't believe that he'd see his sister again. He tried unsuccessfully to convince her that he was happy with the time he got with her. He told her because he didn't believe in an afterlife, it made him appreciate the time he gets now.

 

It gets easier.

[Joanne]

It's been a stress. But it's been a stress due to the very reasons I LEFT the religion. In other words, those who are stressed by it react like the people/situations I wanted to get away from

 

My family is fine; they've gotten for years that God is bigger than {name a religion}. My DH is unsettled. I have a couple of American-traditional Christians who I know are concerned. One in particular thinks it's my profession; her mom was in a related field. I can't seem to explain in words she hears/believes that my departure from Christianity and Jesus has been building for YEARS.

 

The fact that I attended the last 3 years in my Masters program in a seminary is an interesting irony.

[kalanamak]

Now, if you were Betty, do you really want to have the MIL who replies, "Let her," and goes back to her knitting?

 

Yes.

 

I consider religion a very private matter, and would respect anyone who respected my thoughts on it. I also respect people who know that it is not really knowable, and who can acknowledge that they might not be the repository of The Truth.

 

But then, I'm not an atheist (although I suspect I fall in a category essentially equivalent to believers), and I don't care what people do privately, although I would only want someone I was quite secure in my relationship with TELLING me they are praying for me. If someone tells me with terror or condescension in their voice, I find it highly inappropriate, and I either feel strong dislike or frank pity for them.

 

Just because you, the person I am replying to, is a nice person with a good heart does not mean all religious people are. Religion can be used to do evil, or to manipulate.

[kalanamak]

No. First of all, the sausage casserole is bad for anyone from a health perspective, not just a vegetarian.

 

As a vegetarian, I disagree with you. My folks ate sausage, and meat with nearly every meal and lived to be 97 and 90. It agreed with them.

[Soror]

Dh and I both converted to Catholicism. He was raised in a non-church going Baptist home. His G-ma occasionally took him but neither of his parents went, except his mom on special occasions. Both Gparents went though. I was raised Baptist although our church attendance was off and on. For a short period we went a lot and were very involved. My dad even started going but we fell away from attendance and now Mom goes off and on.

 

Both sides have been fairly ok and we've been fairly open, once we made the decision, it was a long process for us to get there. I think mostly both sides were just happy that we were attending church as they both seem to think attending church is a good thing, even though they don't do it themselves. Ironically dh is now thought of the religious one in his Mom's family and is always asked to do prayers and such. They had him read the Bible at his Gma's passing and say a prayer. In my family I'm surprised that I actually haven't got any lip from some of my more fundamentalists relatives. My family tends to be blunt, however I also have no problem standing up for myself either. I told my Uncle that he was rude when he made a comment about me being knocked up again, I generally have little tolerance for being treated poorly.

[TammyS]

It shows great consideration.

 

Laura

 

Actually, I don't see the effective difference between "I'll pray for you" and "I'll be thinking of you". As the recipient, you won't "DO" anything with either of those things. So if you know your friend is a believer, it seems to me the greater consideration for your good would come from praying for you, because that is something that your friend believes to be highly efficacious, even if you don't, while both of you would agree that "thoughts" are objectively non-effective.

[elegantlion]

As I said above, the key is that the person offering the casserole believes it's good for the person on bed rest - whether it is or not is irrelevant.

 

If the Christian goes away and prays for me then I have no problem. If she states that she is going to do it, she is imposing her beliefs on my distress, just like imposing a meat casserole on a vegetarian, and placing me in a difficult situation. The vegetarian won't eat the casserole. I won't do anything with the prayer. The offer in both cases, however, shows lack of consideration for the person in distress.

 

ETA: I do understand that in some circles saying, 'I'll pray for you' is almost a reflex part of speech that someone might say without thinking. If I were living in that kind of society, I'd just sigh and carry on.

 

Laura

 

this.

 

If I know that the person doesn't believe in prayer, I say, "I'll be thinking of you."

 

:iagree: I don't assume everyone's bad day needs to be turned into a prayer request. I believe in the power of prayer, but I also believe in the power of humanity to reach out to one another without involving a deity.

 

I've also seen the negative power of a prayer request, as it is turned into a gossip machine or a tool for the prayer to feel elevated or superior over those "poor lost people". A good number of people I've had experience with in christian circles believe anyone non-christian certainly couldn't be a good moral person and they must need our daily prayer. That's simply not true. I could list (but I won't because it's a private matter) the number of times I've had a need and the people that came forward first to help hold no belief in a deity. I've also had a fair number of religious people come forward. However (and I look in the mirror when I say this), it has reminded me that sometimes we get so caught up in praying for someone's need that we forget we're supposed to be the ones helping them, in the real, outward sense. Pray while you walk the walk.

 

From a practical sense if someone asks you not to pray, it's like listening to the radio. An atheist is turned to one channel, a christian to another. If I tell the atheist I want to play a song for them, I'm so excited, but the atheist is trying to say I don't get that channel, I live far away from you, I'll never hear it.

[elegantlion]

nm

Edited August 5, 2012 by elegantlion

[ChristyB in TN]

No religion here and it has been difficult. My mother defriended me on Facebook so her friends wouldn't see that support gay rights. I embarrass her, evidently. She currently isn't speaking to me because I didn't support the whole chic fil a silliness. She missed my daughter's birthday party because of it. I come from a Southern Baptist background and my husband's family was Pentecostal. I am still Christian and embracing Buddhism, Dh is agnostic. It is not getting easier.

[mommymilkies]

As a vegetarian, I disagree with you. My folks ate sausage, and meat with nearly every meal and lived to be 97 and 90. It agreed with them.

 

I agree. The nitrates are bad for you, but not everyone has effects from them. And meat is not bad for you. We are not herbivores. But that is OT and...how did this even come up? Lol

[kalanamak]

I But that is OT and...how did this even come up? Lol

 

It was a prayer/sausage pie analogy, and I replied to someone who inferred she thought prayer was good for you, and stated she thought sausage was bad for you, so the analogy was faulty.

 

To me, this was "quibbling". I suppose instead of "do not feed the trolls" I should have thought "do not feed the quibbler".

 

One never knows where the ability to speak and read is going to take you next. :lol:

Edited August 5, 2012 by kalanamak

[Desert Rat]

I'm an atheist.

 

Christian friend prays for me: no problem, her decision.

 

Christian friend tells me that she is going to pray for me: embarrassing because I don't know what to say. Do I say 'Thank you', which would be insincere? Do I say, 'Don't bother' which would be insulting to her? Do I say, 'Thank you for the thought' which is patronising?

 

Pray for me if it makes you feel better, but don't force me into a corner about it by telling me you are going to do it.

 

Laura

 

:iagree: