Special CHIME IN: School for dyslexic kids/or continue to homeschool

[calledtobehome]

To make a long story short, my 9.5 yr old son (who has always been homeschooled) was diagnosed with Dyslexia approximately a year ago. Up until 3 months ago he received private tutoring for a year from a O-G certified tutor. We had to stop the tutoring because we relocated to a different state.

His discharge report states that he has made some improvements and currently reading at a mid second grade level easy and beginning 3rd grade level is more difficult. His spelling and writing is still below grade level.

I can honestly say he has gained more confidence in himself sense he's had the tutoring. :)

 

His former tutor recommendation was for me to continue Recipe for reading and All About Spelling with him. After finding out about the school I'm now rethinking homeschooling and possibly sending him to the special school. The school is only about 13-15 min from our home.

 

I'm just really trying to think it through before talking to my husband about it. Either way he would support me. Here are a list of pros and cons I've come up with. Please chime in if you have any or if you have any advice.

 

Pros

-programs is 1st-8th grade

-Certified teachers who are trained in certain curriculum that works well with dyslexic kids.

- May be able to get on grade level with reading, spelling, and writing.

-Can see there are other kids who also deal with dyslexia

-Small class room ratio 8:1

-may learn structure and study skills

 

Cons

-will miss the flexibility of homeschooling

-homework from school

-will miss the great field trips

-Will miss younger brother(they are 16 months apart)

-will miss eating most meals at home

-will miss being able to listen to audio books for a few hours while building with Legos

[Lecka]

That is really hard.

 

I think I would do the school, but for full disclosure, my son is in public school and I afterschool him.

 

On one hand, I am a little reluctant to think the school could do a better job with an 8:1 ratio than you with 1:2. But I would love to have the experienced teachers.

 

For me -- my son does not work really well with me in his weaker areas or when he is having great difficulty. He does fine with me if it is a normal area or a very doable amount of difficulty. With his personality sometimes a teacher can push him more than I can, and he will not take it personally.

 

I feel my son has times for the activities in your "cons" list, but the reason is that his evening activities are limited. So -- he doesn't do evening activities. If your son happens to be doing evening activities, then he might need to cut back (or not). School can be tiring. But it is not too tiring for Legos and listening to read-alouds, or for outside time.

 

My son just eats 5 lunches a week at school. He is still close to his little brother and sister -- but with a greater age gap (3.5 years) it is nice for him to have time with kids his own age. With a 16-month age gap that wouldn't be the same.

 

For the field trips -- could he skip public school just a few times a year for a special field trip? I think it would be very sad for a kid to know his brother went while he was not included. But if it was an issue -- I think at 9 he could pick even one a year that he most wanted to go on, and be mature about it (assuming he would have his own public school field trips, that maybe you could join with your other son).

[Love_to_Read]

Wow...that's a tough call. I think I'd give the school a try.

 

Full disclosure...we started out in public school and left because they didn't use dyslexic materials with dd. But your school specializes in it...and your old tutor is out of the picture...I think I'd send him.

 

Is it public or private? If it's private, would they be open to any sort of partial enrollment, so that your son could attend just for difficult subjects, and come home for science/history/art, etc., in the afternoon?

[Heathermomster]

I'm assuming you are talking a school for dyslexics as opposed to homeschooling, yes? If so, speak with the school first and discover their fees (which are generally monumental), their goals, and their location.

 

I would have loved to place DS in a school for dyslexics; however, between the cost of enrollment and the killer drive back and forth, we simply wouldn't do it. WE could do it, but I'm not into driving 85-90 miles per day to haul DS back and forth to a school where we are paying out the nose for. Tutors are cheaper to me.

 

I mentioned goals. Our local dyslexia school's goals are to remediate the students and prep them for reintergration into the classroom. The students become comfortable typing and using whatever accommodations are necessary for success. As a homeschooler, that goal might not be so important to you at this point. The bottom line is that you need to speak with the school's director. They can be a tremendous help and can assist you with tutors or give you a walk through of their facility.

 

ETA: I think these schools are great BTW, but wanted to mention a con...My family does not turn every school issue into a dyslexia thing. We don't make a point of singling our son's reading issues out. DS doesn't self identify as LD or anything like that. He's never been made fun of or made to feel bad about his issues. While touring the local school, I noted some of the kids seem to have emotional issues pertaining to LDs. That concerned me somewhat. I don't want my son self-identifying with his weaknesses but rather his strengths. I don't know whether I'm making any sense.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Heathermomster

[calledtobehome]

I plan to call the school today. It's a private school and it's only 15 min frpursue home. The website states it's around $8,000 a year. That doesn't include some of the other fees. They also have financial aid.

 

What type of questions should I ask? And what should I look for if we decided to take a tour?

[Dobela]

I would also want to talk to other parents that have used the school in the past. Surely they have a list of references you could call. There may be some other thought of cons they could share with you. They could tell you what they liked, and didn't like about their experiences there.

 

I used to teach special ed in public schools and most of the kids had some emotional baggage. It was in part because the schools seem to be set up to make them fail repeatedly before they give them any true assistance. If the other kids are coming from public schools, and have been held back a grade, received minimal assistance, and singled out repeatedly as different/slow/etc for multiple years, then they may have pretty negative self images. The self depreciating talk can be 'contageous'.

 

That being said, I would consider the school. I have been exhausted at times with my son's education and would have appreciated the emotional break. If I couldn't find any big negative, I would possibly try it for a time. If we didn't like it, I wouldn't hesitate bringing him back home.

[Heathermomster]

I plan to call the school today. It's a private school and it's only 15 min frpursue home. The website states it's around $8,000 a year. That doesn't include some of the other fees. They also have financial aid.

 

What type of questions should I ask? And what should I look for if we decided to take a tour?

 

I'd be asking about how they handle behavior issues and what are the goals. You should probably try to get a handle on the other students and their overall attitudes. I interviewed a couple of kids and ask them school type questions. I also wanted to know the ages of the kids my son would be hanging with. See if they combine ages in the classroom.

 

That tuition price is considerably cheaper than the rates that I saw 5 years ago when I looked into a school for DS. You may discover that your child will stay there for 3 years and then come home. The local school wanted a 3 year commitment out of my family. DS was 2nd grade at the time. DH didn't like the situation because it was secular.

 

I just recalled something else. DS tests gifted. The school we looked at only had a couple of gifted kids that were older than DS, by 2 or more years. My MIL is a reading specialist and didn't like the idea of her grandson being there.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Heathermomster

[RamonaQ]

I would tour it and see what I think. The alternative would be to spend that money and work with tutors, one-on-one.

[FairProspects]

:iagree:With the others. That price is amazing, there is no way that school would be that inexpensive around here. I would be concerned about how they handle ansynchronous development - are they going to let him be challenged or differentiated in areas where he excels as they work on remediation in other areas?

 

Also, what is the language surrounding dyslexia? Are they speaking about it in empowering language as a different processing system to worked with or is it constantly referred to as an LD emphasizing mainly the negatives?

[Lecka]

For emotional baggage -- I think part of it is failure, and part of it is seeing that they have a hard time with things that are obviously so easy for others. I think part of it is working very hard and then getting no recognition.

 

My son's public school was very, very, very good about recognizing him for reading last year. It was huge for him, and (this is his personality again) meant more coming from school than from me or other relatives.

 

I agree it is a good question, what age will he be with. Will there be 7 other kids close to his age, working at his level? I wouldn't want my son to be older or younger than the other kids by very much, in general. If the teachers seemed like they had a really good system (the older kids given special responsibilities or something) I could be okay. If that is just now their numbers worked out so they stick the kids together, I wouldn't like it.

 

I would also ask what the mission of the school is. I looked into summer programs a little at one point, attached to some dyslexia boarding schools. Several of these boarding schools are designed for kids to attend there 1-3 years and then transition back to their home school. They are intended to get them caught up and used to accomodations they might need, and able to advocate for themselves, and going back with a good self-esteem, knowing they can learn when taught the way they learn.

 

Then there seemed to be some private dyslexia schools that just taught in ways friendlier to dyslexic children, but with many children attending who were performing on grade level.

 

Both kinds seemed good, but I would want to know which kind it was.

 

I would also wonder what the average travel time is. If a lot of kids are local, there is a lot more opportunity for small social things. If a lot of kids are driving an hour from all different directions, there may be very few social things.

[calledtobehome]

Taking a tour on Friday. Talked with the education specialist for over 39min or more today. The kids are all placed in the classrooms according to age and grade. Therefore my son will be placed in the 4th grade classroom. Each child's curriculum is individualized. If a child is in 4th grade but reading on a 2nd grade level the teacher work with the child where they are and so forth.

 

Here's some info from the website:

 

****** DePaul serves the community of bright students who learn differently. Most of the students at DePaul have above average intelligence. Most also have dyslexia or ADD. The academic success of our students makes the label "disabled" misleading. Our students learn differently than other students and must be taught in non-traditional programs. DePaul uses multi-sensory learning programs to enhance their learning experience. DePaul teaches the way our students learn.

 

The full-time program serves students with learning differences of elementary and middle school age. Students are taught to mastery in small classes and are grouped by ability rather than grade to maximize effectiveness. Our specialized techniques include multisensory teaching methods along with structured, individualized direct instruction. The emphasis is on basic academic remediation. Enrichment opportunities are offered in art, drama, music, computers and physical education.

 

An intermediate program is offered for our older students to help prepare them for transitioning to high school. Organizational and study skills are an integral part of the middle school program and these students have the same enrichment opportunities as the younger ones.

 

****** Specialized programs include DePaul Structured Linguistics, special proven phonics programs, Open Court Reading and Direct Instruction SRA, and Saxon Math.

 

The minimum requirement for a full-time teacher at DePaul is a 4 year degree, teaching certification, and experience teaching children. All teachers are professionally trained in the specialized phonics programs. They are also required to obtain their Certificate in Teaching Children with Dyslexia within the first year of employment at DePaul. In addition, all teachers are trained in first aid and CPR.

[Lecka]

It sounds promising. You can see what you think at the tour, too.

[FairProspects]

There is quite a bit of eduspeak in that description, so I would just be aware. Open Court and SRA phonics are not written for dyslexics, and while they are direct instruction and have picture support, they don't hold a candle to the effectiveness of O-G programs. SRA is not even intensive phonics. Also, Saxon math is not known as the best choice for dyslexics. I'd definitely want a lot more info, and honestly, if those were my curriculum choices, I wouldn't put out the money unless there were other factors for choosing the school. You could pick a lot more effective programs to target dyslexia yourself at home.

[Dobela]

There is quite a bit of eduspeak in that description, so I would just be aware. Open Court and SRA phonics are not written for dyslexics, and while they are direct instruction and have picture support, they don't hold a candle to the effectiveness of O-G programs. SRA is not even intensive phonics. Also, Saxon math is not known as the best choice for dyslexics. I'd definitely want a lot more info, and honestly, if those were my curriculum choices, I wouldn't put out the money unless there were other factors for choosing the school. You could pick a lot more effective programs to target dyslexia yourself at home.

:iagree: And for that price, you could hire great tutors trained in O-G if you wanted for 1-1 instruction.

[Pen]

There is quite a bit of eduspeak in that description, so I would just be aware. Open Court and SRA phonics are not written for dyslexics, and while they are direct instruction and have picture support, they don't hold a candle to the effectiveness of O-G programs. SRA is not even intensive phonics. Also, Saxon math is not known as the best choice for dyslexics. I'd definitely want a lot more info, and honestly, if those were my curriculum choices, I wouldn't put out the money unless there were other factors for choosing the school. You could pick a lot more effective programs to target dyslexia yourself at home.

 

 

:iagree: As I read things through it was at first sounding like an amazing potential opportunity... And then when I got to things like SRA and Saxon, I thought, well, it sure wouldn't work for my son.

[Momofeat]

Taking a tour on Friday. Talked with the education specialist for over 39min or more today. The kids are all placed in the classrooms according to age and grade. Therefore my son will be placed in the 4th grade classroom. Each child's curriculum is individualized. If a child is in 4th grade but reading on a 2nd grade level the teacher work with the child where they are and so forth.

 

Here's some info from the website:

 

****** DePaul serves the community of bright students who learn differently. Most of the students at DePaul have above average intelligence. Most also have dyslexia or ADD. The academic success of our students makes the label "disabled" misleading. Our students learn differently than other students and must be taught in non-traditional programs. DePaul uses multi-sensory learning programs to enhance their learning experience. DePaul teaches the way our students learn.

 

The full-time program serves students with learning differences of elementary and middle school age. Students are taught to mastery in small classes and are grouped by ability rather than grade to maximize effectiveness. Our specialized techniques include multisensory teaching methods along with structured, individualized direct instruction. The emphasis is on basic academic remediation. Enrichment opportunities are offered in art, drama, music, computers and physical education.

 

An intermediate program is offered for our older students to help prepare them for transitioning to high school. Organizational and study skills are an integral part of the middle school program and these students have the same enrichment opportunities as the younger ones.

 

****** Specialized programs include DePaul Structured Linguistics, special proven phonics programs, Open Court Reading and Direct Instruction SRA, and Saxon Math.

 

The minimum requirement for a full-time teacher at DePaul is a 4 year degree, teaching certification, and experience teaching children. All teachers are professionally trained in the specialized phonics programs. They are also required to obtain their Certificate in Teaching Children with Dyslexia within the first year of employment at DePaul. In addition, all teachers are trained in first aid and CPR.

 

Are their teachers not OG trained??? Since he has made such progress with an OG tutor, I would not settle for anything without it.

[Lecka]

I kind-of think my son would have done well with SRA Direct Instruction. I haven't actually seen samples of it, but I have seen samples of programs that are compared to it, and they are the kind of thing I think does help him.

 

I describe my son as, not a memorizer. Repetition helps him. He doesn't glaze over and just start repeating patterns without really learning them. He doesn't need to be "tested' with nonsense words or with many different words.

 

Or -- this is what I think at this point.

 

I think some of the programs I look at samples of appear to be more than what he needs, and maybe too overwhelming. While I think for many kids, they need to be challenged or they won't learn and retain.

 

Past phonemic awareness, I have tended to think things that mention "struggling readers" seem better for him than things intended for "dyslexia." It does seem like they are different.

 

My impression is that when kids who need the "dyslexia" materials do the "struggling reader" materials, they don't really retain well or transfer knowledge well, but have been able to give the right answers doing the work. While for my son he is struggling through and he i slearning and retaining.

 

This is a link to a PBS documentary. http://www.readingrockets.org/shows/twoschools/ The program they have Tavares doing I think is in the style of Direct Instruction. I cried when I saw this because I felt like -- if my son went to this school I think he would have learned. But he also needed manipulatives early on, so... maybe it would not have been the whole answer for him. But it looked like his style to some extent.

[Lecka]

http://www.fcrr.org/FCRRReports/CorrectiveReading.pdf

 

This is the FCRR report for a SRA reading program.

 

I do think I would want to see samples of the curriculum and maybe sample lessons, because of concerns some people have, and maybe it would not be the right thing for your child.

 

But I suspect I would jump all over it for my son.

 

Maybe you could also ask his former tutor if she has any advice about his learning style and if she thought it would be a good fit.

 

For myself I will not rule something out just b/c it is not OG. In fact, I have not used a full-OG program yet. But the reason is I have looked, and tried things, and I have a sense of what my son does well with. (After phonemic awareness we have done I See Sam and Abecedarian, and now we're doing fluency at his level, which is early 2nd grade.)

 

But at the same time -- your son has had success with OG! Maybe what they do will seem pretty close, or maybe pretty different, I don't know.

 

edit:

Expository text is provided to teach cause/effect, inference, main idea, text structure, and sequence (Comprehension strand, levels B1, B2, C).

 

This is a quote from the FCRR report -- I would ask about this. If they were doing a good job teaching this -- well, that would make me happy.

 

Otoh, in the review a weakness is "fluency goals are minimal." I would have some questions about that. I would want to know what they were doing for fluency. Especially b/c your son might be past a lot of decoding and ready to focus on fluency also? I am working on fluency with my son right now (at a late-1st grade, early 2nd-grade level) and, well, I do the stuff where I help him pre-read and read together with him and he does some repeated reading, and he reads out loud. We don't do any timing. But I would like to hear some things like that. Or reader's theater -- my son got to do that at the very end of last year, and he adored it, and I never thought he would be a kid to adore it.

 

I do agree with others, that I don't think this is "better" than getting a 1:1 tutor. I am just not sure it is worse. And, maybe you will visit and see a lot of things you like. Or, maybe you will visit and not be impressed with it vs. what you could provide at home with private tutors.

 

Oh, I would also ask what they see in kids, what his goal would be. The FCRR report is mentioning words-per-minute goals, and I look at charts for words-per-minute to see where my son is and where he needs to be. If they are getting the WPM better then that is good! But I am not into a lot of rigid timing personally, at home, and my son, so far, has only been timed very little at school. For a lot of kids, I think they like to beat their times and like the timing. I am afraid my son would get nervous and start to have trouble thinking of words, if you know what I mean. I would worry about that if they were very into timing. But, then maybe timing would be a good thing. I don't know -- I would ask about it though.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Lecka

[Shay]

I have taught SRA in a school, loved, felt successful with it, and my students progressed well. I have also taught OG (Barton) to some individual students. SRA Direct Instruction is a great program with strong research base and history. I respectfully disagree that it is not intensive phonics. Perhaps to a homeschooler it appears to "schoolish," but remember, in a school environment we are charged with teaching many kids to read at a time....not an easy order, KWIM? SRA is the best I've ever seen for that. ALL of my students progressed.

 

If I'm understanding correctly, this school uses SRA plus OG methodology thrown in?? If so and that is the case, I would consider that to be an awesome and powerful combination. Also, I would imagine that what they will do is age group your dc, and then for the "reading instruction" block, they will bust up to ability group for that time frame. If only all schools would do this.

 

SRA's plus is that everything is taught to mastery and progress monitoring is done often. My students did daily progress monitoring partially themselves (timed readings with graph creation) and sometimes individually with the teacher. The class (or child) does not move on if something is not met to mastery level. THAT is usually what got the kid in reading trouble in the first place (I'm speaking of kids who are in normal classrooms, where a certain pace must be maintained per district specifications).

 

Of course, any program (OG or DI) is subject to being not taught with fidelity, thus messing with effectiveness. Honestly, I would strongly consider giving this school a try.

 

Edit to add (after reading Lecka's fluency questions): Corrective Reading addresses fluency with every lesson. After the group instruction, the child reads the passage first for accuracy (with passing level benchmark criteria) and then again for fluency (again, with a benchmark criteria). The student charts both his accuracy and fluency. Students will vary wildly on this, I found, but I also found that they all GREW.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Shay
additional info.

[Lecka]

Shay -- Thanks for mentioning the fluency aspect. I just saw that one little comment on the FCRR report.

 

The video I have seen (that I linked to) really looks like what works with my son, I watched some of it again last night. But I have heard people say that the program that I used with my son didn't work for their child.

 

And, the program I used (Abecedarian) has fluency done separately from the program itself, there are guidelines given in the teachers manual , but I am not doing a formal fluency program.

 

That is why I wondered.

 

If the OP wonders about differences in the sequence of instruction, I wonder myself if they are huge differences.

 

I am following a traditional school method with my son -- he has done basically all the phonograms now and can do fine with them, and he can read 2-syllable words that follow some of the basic patterns, and he does know some prefixes and suffixes.

 

Some of these things are left later in some OG programs.

 

Now for myself ------ I would be happy for my son to be put in a little lower level to start, if he could then progress at his own rate, because it is great for him if he comes to a unit and already knows some of the material. He LOVES that.

 

I also think, just b/c a tutor is doing an OG program, the tutor could be weak. Another forum friend of mine had this happen. The tutor was using Take Flight and it should have been doing good, but it wasn't. Then she happened to switch to another tutor, same program, and it was like night and day. So I think -- in the real world, maybe you look for what is the best option. I think when you look into things you do have a feeling like "this tutor would be perfect" or "I think my kid would like this school and learn here."

[EKS]

What type of questions should I ask?

 

I would ask how many years they expect a child to gain with each year enrolled in their program. You want to hear something like 2-4 (and not less than 2).

 

I would also ask what their target is with remediation, meaning are they targeting grade level or ability level? You want to hear ability level and then how they determine it.

 

I would also want to know what sort of emphasis they place on learning content (history, science, etc) and how they go about teaching it. It is critical that dyslexics keep up with their non-dyslexic peers in content learning as knowing content is critical in reading comprehension. I would want to hear that they understand this and that they assign homework that involves lots of read alouds or listening to audiobooks.

 

Like another poster mentioned, the Saxon Math thing concerns me for three reasons. (1) Saxon is very reading/verbally oriented, though I'm sure that the teacher would present the lesson, (2) Dyslexics tend to work slowly and to use Saxon effectively, students need to work every single problem, and there are *a lot* of problems, and (3) If the goal is to gain 2+ years in a year, Saxon is not the program to do it; it is very difficult to accelerate Saxon properly. I would ask exactly why they chose Saxon and how they deal with accelerating it.