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A small insignificant vent


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I woke up this morning with a raging stiff neck, so I'm a little out of sorts today, so just indulge me. :D

 

I think my best friend "over-parents" her daughter. My friend is . . . well, to put it nicely . . . a high strung control freak. She micromanages everything her 13 yr. old daughter does. I love them both, but right now I'm ready to strangle one or both of them.

 

The 13 yr. old is my god daughter, and she is staying with us this week. I also have a 15 yr. old German girl here, my 8 yr. old niece (who is in love with the German girl, so is staying all week instead of her normal 2 days), my two kids, and the babies I watch. It's a lot to handle.

 

My god daughter doesn't do ANYTHING of her own accord. Yesterday, I took all of the above mentioned kids to the zoo by myself. They all helped me with the babies without my really asking, except for my god daughter. She just stood around like a lump while another one of the kids stepped in.

 

Today, I managed to have the chiropractor squeeze me in this evening after the babies went home. Before we left the house, I said to my boys, in god daughter's presence, "We are leaving in 5 minutes. Go to the bathroom and get your shoes on." When 5 minutes was up, I said, "Okay, everybody, get in the car." She looked around and then raced to get her shoes on and run upstairs to get her book. Everyone else was ready to go, but I hadn't specifically told her to get ready.

 

Then, I took them out to dinner after the chiropractor, and at one point, I said, "I have to go to the bathroom. Anyone want to come with me?" She said yes. When we got in there, I heard her pe3ing, and it sounded like Niagara Falls. She must have had to go for quite a while, but she never said anything.

 

UGH! I know I'm extra crabby right now, but I don't need another baby to take care of. She has always been this way, but now it's starting to really get on my nerves. She has come on scrapbooking weekends with her mother and me, and I witness how every. little. thing. she does is initiated and controlled by her mother. We've been friends for 25 years, so I know that saying anything to her will only upset her and won't really change anything, so I keep quiet. It just drives me nuts.

Edited by thescrappyhomeschooler
got the number of years wrong the first time
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AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH! :rant:

 

I was just digging a Mike's out of the fridge (I can wash my Advil down with that, right? :tongue_smilie:) and saw her leftovers from the restaurant sitting in the middle of the kitchen table. She managed to carry them into the house without my telling her, but she doesn't know to put them in the fridge?!?!?!?! The 15 yr. old put hers in the fridge without any guidance, and she's not even from this country! :D

 

I wish chiropractors could prescribe good pain meds. I could really use something stronger than the advil to take with my Mike's. Just kidding.

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I know it seems aggravating, but I'm feeling awfully sorry for that little girl. If she is micromanaged at home, she probably IS totally lost at your house. It sounds, from your description, that she has been conditioned to have no independent thought or actions. I can't imagine how constrained that must feel to her to have to be directly instructed to do every single thing, including pee!!! :eek: Oh my!!! That was so sad and painful to read!!

 

I think I would try to muster up a huge amount of patience and give her the benefit of the doubt. I mean, really? She has to be instructed to pee?? Wow! I cannot get over that. Poor girl. :crying:

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LOL Is she an only child?

 

I just ask because I think it's easy to unintenionally over parent an only. Also, when you mentioned her not stepping in to help with the babies...well, I wouldn't have ever tried to help with babies unless the other parent said "Hey, can you ____ the baby?" I was an only, and tended to hang back and wait to be told. I'm sure my mother over did the hand holding and doing for me, it was easier for her to do it. I just have less time to "do" for my 3 individually, so they have sort of had to sink or swim with some stuff.

 

ETA: I feel I should clarify here...No one had to tell me to pee!!

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I know it seems aggravating, but I'm feeling awfully sorry for that little girl. If she is micromanaged at home, she probably IS totally lost at your house. It sounds, from your description, that she has been conditioned to have no independent thought or actions. I can't imagine how constrained that must feel to her to have to be directly instructed to do every single thing, including pee!!! :eek: Oh my!!! That was so sad and painful to read!!

 

I think I would try to muster up a huge amount of patience and give her the benefit of the doubt. I mean, really? She has to be instructed to pee?? Wow! I cannot get over that. Poor girl. :crying:

 

I know. I'm usually much more patient with her. I treat her kind of like my Aspie son, who frequently needs to be told what is the appropriate action in the appropriate setting. I hope she starts to become more independent in her teenage years, or her mother is going to have to go to college with her. Which, come to think of it, I wouldn't put past her mother :lol:

 

I'm just in a lot of pain tonight and am breaking down a bit. The massage therapist worked out much of the huge knot in my neck, but she pressed so hard, I feel like I've been punched about 1,000 times in the shoulder.

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My niece is also remarkably helpless for her age. And self-centered. We can only hope they will grow out of it.

 

I don't think its only upbringing. I think some kids are wired to be independent, and others are not. Those who are not need to be pushed for their own good. That includes my kids at times.

 

Just think, you are giving your God-daughter a great opportunity to "rough it" while she's with you. I mean seriously, expecting her to have two intelligent thoughts/actions in succession? What is this, boot camp?

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LOL Is she an only child?

 

I just ask because I think it's easy to unintenionally over parent an only. Also, when you mentioned her not stepping in to help with the babies...well, I wouldn't have ever tried to help with babies unless the other parent said "Hey, can you ____ the baby?" I was an only, and tended to hang back and wait to be told. I'm sure my mother over did the hand holding and doing for me, it was easier for her to do it. I just have less time to "do" for my 3 individually, so they have sort of had to sink or swim with some stuff.

 

ETA: I feel I should clarify here...No one had to tell me to pee!!

 

She is an only, but so is the German girl, and so is my 8 yr. old niece. They both automatically would stick the baby's pacifier back in his mouth if it fell out or reach to push the stroller back and forth if one of them started getting antsy. My god daughter is also shy and socially awkward. I often wonder if she's not somewhere on the spectrum. Hard to say with her mother hovering over her every second. I met her mother in college in 1987. I was her maid of honor and was in the delivery room when her daughter was born. I shaved my head when she lost her hair to chemo and went with her to the plastic surgeon to discuss breast reconstruction. She is my closest friend. I've said things to her like, "Geez, I hope H will know how to go to the bathroom by herself when she grows up!", in a sarcastic way so that she knows I think she's overdoing it. She just says something like, "You know how I am, I can't help it." My sister even said something to her when we were all at a scrapbooking weekend. H was going to walk back to their hotel room by herself. My friend was freaking out about it and wanted to go with her. My sister lost it and guilted my friend into letting H go by herself. My friend's husband (H's father) was in the room. The room was literally 2 doors down from our crop room. It was broad daylight. In the middle of Amish Country.

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I know. I'm usually much more patient with her. I treat her kind of like my Aspie son, who frequently needs to be told what is the appropriate action in the appropriate setting. I hope she starts to become more independent in her teenage years, or her mother is going to have to go to college with her. Which, come to think of it, I wouldn't put past her mother :lol:

 

I'm just in a lot of pain tonight and am breaking down a bit. The massage therapist worked out much of the huge knot in my neck, but she pressed so hard, I feel like I've been punched about 1,000 times in the shoulder.

 

 

I understand that. I'm sorry you're in pain tonight. I hope it passes quickly. :grouphug:

 

I'm :lol: at the mother going to college with her, though. At least your sense of humour is still perky!

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AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH! :rant:

 

I was just digging a Mike's out of the fridge (I can wash my Advil down with that, right? :tongue_smilie:) and saw her leftovers from the restaurant sitting in the middle of the kitchen table. She managed to carry them into the house without my telling her, but she doesn't know to put them in the fridge?!?!?!?! The 15 yr. old put hers in the fridge without any guidance, and she's not even from this country! :D

 

I wish chiropractors could prescribe good pain meds. I could really use something stronger than the advil to take with my Mike's. Just kidding.

 

I feel sorry for her. Why are you aggrevated over the above though? That just isn't a big deal. I think you are annoyed so every little thing is irritating you. Cut her some slack.

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I feel sorry for her. Why are you aggrevated over the above though? That just isn't a big deal. I think you are annoyed so every little thing is irritating you. Cut her some slack.

 

You're right. I was aggravated by every little thing at that point. It was just the icing on the cake. I think a 13 yr. old should know that if she wants to actually eat her leftovers tomorrow, she needs to put them in the fridge. I guess I don't feel I should have to tell her to do something that obvious. I just put them in the fridge myself and vented here so that I wouldn't lose it with her.

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:grouphug: Sorry you're not feeling well.

 

Just wondering, could it be that this girl is like this naturally and the mom's effort to correct it is what comes across as micromanaging? I don't know, just a thought.

 

I have not raised ds from scratch. He has been with me a year and half. I sometimes feel as though I am micromanaging him because the poor boy is coming and going at the same time. KWIM? He is like a dog chasing his tail. :lol: I have actually had to tell him twice that you have to lift the lid before urinating into the toilet :001_huh:. He can be that scattered. If another adult listened to some of the talks that I have to give him, they would think i was a serious nut-ball parent.

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:grouphug: Sorry you're not feeling well.

 

Just wondering, could it be that this girl is like this naturally and the mom's effort to correct it is what comes across as micromanaging? I don't know, just a thought.

 

I have not raised ds from scratch. He has been with me a year and half. I sometimes feel as though I am micromanaging him because the poor boy is coming and going at the same time. KWIM? He is like a dog chasing his tail. :lol: I have actually had to tell him twice that you have to lift the lid before urinating into the toilet :001_huh:. He can be that scattered. If another adult listened to some of the talks that I have to give him, they would think i was a serious nut-ball parent.

 

She might be a little bit naturally like this, but I think much of it is her mother's doing. I almost quit being her maid of honor because of how she was trying to micromanage me and her husband and every freakin' detail of the wedding. She will plan you to death if you let her. I have the ability to stand up for myself and hold my own against her. Poor god daughter and her father are pretty much steamrolled over by my friend.

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I don't see a problem. She's 13.

 

So she didn't jump in to help with the baby. She's not used to having a baby around..in her house, she IS the baby. For some children, being "mommy-oriented" comes natural...ie the younger child who did help with the baby.

 

I have a child that I have to tell a million times to get his shoes on, that we are leaving. It's actually been to the point where the rest of us went to the garage, got in the car, backed the car out of the garage, and sat in the driveway until he realized he was the only one sitting in the house, because of his lack of listening/action.

 

Could be an only child issue...could be an overbearing mother. Either way, I don't see it being a HUGE deal. Was she rude? Did she use foul language? Did she steal something? I mean, frankly, I don't see her having done ANYTHING thing wrong. Perhaps not doing it the way you expected, but then perhaps that is an issue with you and your expectations of other people's children. Perhaps her mother is a bit "too much"...on the other hand, one could look at it that the girl is lucky to have such a caring, loving involved mother. There's worse things in life.

Edited by Samiam
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She might be a little bit naturally like this, but I think much of it is her mother's doing. I almost quit being her maid of honor because of how she was trying to micromanage me and her husband and every freakin' detail of the wedding. She will plan you to death if you let her. I have the ability to stand up for myself and hold my own against her. Poor god daughter and her father are pretty much steamrolled over by my friend.

 

 

Ok, gotcha. I know some people are like that. :glare: I'm not sure how you fix that...

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I don't see a problem. She's 13.

 

So she didn't jump in to help with the baby. She's not used to having a baby around..in her house, she IS the baby. For some children, being "mommy-oriented" comes natural...ie the younger child who did help with the baby.

 

I have a child that I have to tell a million times to get his shoes on, that we are leaving. It's actually been to the point where the rest of us went to the garage, got in the car, backed the car out of the garage, and sat in the driveway until he realized he was the only one sitting in the house, because of his lack of listening/action.

 

Could be an only child issue...could be an overbearing mother. Either way, I don't see it being a HUGE deal. Was she rude? Did she use foul language? Did she steal something? I mean, frankly, I don't see her having done ANYTHING thing wrong. Perhaps not doing it the way you expected, but then perhaps that is an issue with you and your expectations of other people's children. Perhaps her mother is a bit "too much"...on the other hand, one could look at it that the girl is lucky to have such a caring, loving involved mother. There's worse things in life.

 

 

 

 

Is there a new trend that I am unaware of on the boards? In light of Jean's thread and this one, there seems to be this idea that threads must be of great significance in order to be worthy of board space :confused:. No one has to agree of course. I just seem to be seeing this suggested more. We need a sticky: Unless the kid in question has committed at least one misdemeanor, please don't waste our time. :lol:

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Is there a new trend that I am unaware of on the boards? In light of Jean's thread and this one, there seems to be this idea that threads must be of great significance in order to be worthy of board space :confused:. No one has to agree of course. I just seem to be seeing this suggested more. We need a sticky: Unless the kid in question has committed at least one misdemeanor, please don't waste our time. :lol:

 

No new trend here. I am pretty sure a longtime poster gets that if they are going to start a thread that even THEY realize is insignificant, they are going to get other posters who point it out.

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No new trend here. I am pretty sure a longtime poster gets that if they are going to start a thread that even THEY realize is insignificant, they are going to get other posters who point it out.

 

But that's just it. I see insignificant stuff posted all the time. If I think it is insignificant then I move on, not worth my time. I know everyone responds differently, but I have not seen these comments so many times (between 2 threads) as I have tonight. I am just confused that after all the threads of whatever type stuff, we suddenly need threads to be qualified? I am not being snarky, just genuinely :confused:.

 

Should people really sit there and think "gee is this behavior bad enough or this event tragic enough for me to vent/ask/post about?" :confused: Just odd after all the threads about mom jeans, shoes, potlucks, etc. Sometimes it's just the nitty gritty day in, day out stuff that we need to vent about or seek clarification on, ya know? Or maybe I'm just crazy. :001_huh: (this could very well be the problem as it is quite late on the east coast right now ;) )

 

 

 

ETA: I totally get telling someone that the event they are referencing is, in their view, insignificant. I am talking about making the suggestion that a person should not post about something because it is insignificant. Does that make any sense to anyone else?

Edited by jewellsmommy
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ETA: I totally get telling someone that the event they are referencing is, in their view, insignificant. I am talking about making the suggestion that a person should not post about something because it is insignificant. Does that make any sense to anyone else?

 

For the record, I never inferred, suggested, or otherwise stated she should not have posted her insignificant vent (her words, her title, not mine).

 

I did offer my opinion on her vent. I thought she was overreacting to a bunch of non-issues. When one posts on a public forum, one must be willing to accept opinions of others. One should be able to accept that others won't always agree with them. Otherwise, what is the point of venting on a public forum? If you just want everyone to agree with you, all the time...well, probably should just keep the vent to yourself, because that's not how life works when you interact with other humans.

 

Sometimes when you are venting, hearing another point of view, allows you to realize it's.just.not.that.big.of.a.deal, and let's you move on with life, focusing on issues that actually are big deals. People post on ths forum everyday, with major life issues, problems, etc. Those are big deals. People also post on this forum everyday about things that are no big deal..ie which vacuum should I buy? Post anything you feel you need to post. But just don't be offend if everyone doesn't come running to offer hugs, and tell you that you are 100% on the money, spot on, got it right and dang if that 13 year girl doesn't have some problems! If you feel the need to vent in a public, online international forum about a child who held their urine too long because they didn't want to ask to use the bathroom (which is a assumption btw, no real proof on that), then go ahead. It's.not.that.big.of.a.deal either way.

 

Feel free to disagree with me :D.

Edited by Samiam
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But that's just it. I see insignificant stuff posted all the time. If I think it is insignificant then I move on, not worth my time. I know everyone responds differently, but I have not seen these comments so many times (between 2 threads) as I have tonight. I am just confused that after all the threads of whatever type stuff, we suddenly need threads to be qualified? I am not being snarky, just genuinely :confused:.

 

Should people really sit there and think "gee is this behavior bad enough or this event tragic enough for me to vent/ask/post about?" :confused: Just odd after all the threads about mom jeans, shoes, potlucks, etc. Sometimes it's just the nitty gritty day in, day out stuff that we need to vent about or seek clarification on, ya know? Or maybe I'm just crazy. :001_huh: (this could very well be the problem as it is quite late on the east coast right now ;) )

 

 

ETA: I totally get telling someone that the event they are referencing is, in their view, insignificant. I am talking about making the suggestion that a person should not post about something because it is insignificant. Does that make any sense to anyone else?

 

Thanks for trying to defend my right to post this.

 

Maybe some people didn't see that part where I said I was in serious pain and needed a little indulgence last night.

 

Maybe they didn't see the half dozen times where I blamed the girl's behavior on her mother, not herself.

 

Maybe they missed the part where I said I have 5 extra kids at my house every day this week, and having one that is a teenager that needs to be specifically told by name to do every little thing is a bit wearing on the nerves.

 

Maybe they missed the part where I said it was a vent. I don't recall asking for anyone to give me hugs. I was simply getting some frustration of my day off my chest and into cyberspace, instead of venting it to the actual children who are here.

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OK, now I think maybe you need a :grouphug:. I did that gently, so as not to mess with your neck.

 

:)

 

The leftover food being left out sends me around the bend. Sometimes, it is one of the adults here who does it. (:blushing: ) I still get miffed even when it was me who did it!

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This seems to be going south. Did everyone's AC break or something. People are just mean this week.

 

The OP said she was venting. If you have a problem with that, don't read further. By reading further, you are in charge of wasting your own time. The OP did not make you read.

 

OP, if this girl were going to regularly be at my house or stay in my house for an extended time I might post some basic rules and go over them with her specifically. The rules would not cover everything you'd expect of a typical 13 year old, but be a little start.

 

The bathroom list could have things like hang up your towel, flush and close toilet lid, put toothpastes away. A list near the door could say hang up coat, close door. Just a few things. Tell you expect she will look at the lists and make sure she's done them. A general rule could be put away whatever you got out.

 

I would give the girl and her mom the benefit of the doubt and assume the girl is completely disorganized, has executive function deficits and needs more guidance. If you make the assumption up front you get less frustrated expecting more. If you decide to make lists, you will actually be helping her to learn to check up on herself. Executive function deficits is a real disability, but many people don't know it or recognize it, they just think the person with the deficit is irresponsible, willful, or rude.

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Is there a new trend that I am unaware of on the boards? In light of Jean's thread and this one, there seems to be this idea that threads must be of great significance in order to be worthy of board space :confused:. No one has to agree of course. I just seem to be seeing this suggested more. We need a sticky: Unless the kid in question has committed at least one misdemeanor, please don't waste our time. :lol:

 

No kidding. It seems like every thread has people jumping all over the OP about things. It's just depressing. I think I need a break from the boards.

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LOL Is she an only child?

 

I just ask because I think it's easy to unintenionally over parent an only. Also, when you mentioned her not stepping in to help with the babies...well, I wouldn't have ever tried to help with babies unless the other parent said "Hey, can you ____ the baby?" I was an only, and tended to hang back and wait to be told. I'm sure my mother over did the hand holding and doing for me, it was easier for her to do it. I just have less time to "do" for my 3 individually, so they have sort of had to sink or swim with some stuff.

 

ETA: I feel I should clarify here...No one had to tell me to pee!!

 

:iagree: As an only I never ever helped anyone with a baby until I had two of my own (it took the second one ;)). Until I had my first I wouldn't have had a clue and at 13 definitely not. My mother wasn't one to over parent (believe me not) but I was very cautious after having some experiences where I hadn't understood the unspoken rules at cousins & friends houses so I found it safer to wait to be told what to do.

Also, perhaps the mother is over parenting because she has to. My suspected Aspie 6 yr old would not have even registered that people were getting ready to go if you hadn't got her attention and instructed her specifically to put her shoes on. What you see as over parenting may be her mother compensating for her daughter's executive functioning issues.

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Just my .02, but I grew up with very controlling parents and to this day I don't feel free to have needs, move about in a friend's kitchen etc. etc.

 

I know you don't need one more baby, but an over controlling parent is another form of abuse. They take away a person's natural instinct to think for oneself and be creative and have needs (like going to the bathroom).

 

My guess is that you're just seeing the tip of the iceberg. When she doesn't ask to use the bathroom it's because she feels scared to. It's very possible that when she doesn't step into help w/ the babies, she assumes that you wouldn't want her help. (I know that sounds bizarre, but I spent many years amazed to learn that people wanted my ideas, opinions, creativity. My parents never had.)

 

Even if your friend isn't as bad as my parents, controlling parents are absolutely no fun. At the end of a controlling parent is someone who says, "Do this, that, or the other -- BECAUSE I SAID TO DO IT NOW!"

 

So a controlled kid learns to take orders. And if you're not giving orders she probably doesn't have a clue what to do.

 

She won't change over night either. Those lessons of listening to a controlling parent are very hard to over come. I still fight those demons and if I'm around a person who appears controlling or bossy, I get very quiet (and scared) and non participative.

 

I hope you'll reconsider her situation. I remember other adults becoming irritated w/ me as a kid and a teen, but I was only doing what I'd been programmed to do.

 

Alley

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Fwiw, my 7yr old who has sensory issues (and, I suspect, anxiety as well) often needs to be prompted to go to the bathroom away from home or else she'll get to the waterfall stage before she goes. I think it's because of the sounds and smells that many bathrooms have (air freshener can be worse than what it's covering up for her). She doesn't need to ask at home, but if I'm leaving her somewhere, I'll often take her to the bathroom there before I go so she feels safe in going. (This is the same kid who, on a Kindergarten field trip to the zoo at age 4, wouldn't go IN the bathrooms until they got back to school. Her teacher was both amazed and bemused at her bladder capacity, especially since she was the youngest and smallest in the class).

 

She's also a really spacey kid at times, especial

Ly if she's tired or stressed.

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Just my .02, but I grew up with very controlling parents and to this day I don't feel free to have needs, move about in a friend's kitchen etc. etc.

 

I know you don't need one more baby, but an over controlling parent is another form of abuse. They take away a person's natural instinct to think for oneself and be creative and have needs (like going to the bathroom).

 

My guess is that you're just seeing the tip of the iceberg. When she doesn't ask to use the bathroom it's because she feels scared to. It's very possible that when she doesn't step into help w/ the babies, she assumes that you wouldn't want her help. (I know that sounds bizarre, but I spent many years amazed to learn that people wanted my ideas, opinions, creativity. My parents never had.)

 

Even if your friend isn't as bad as my parents, controlling parents are absolutely no fun. At the end of a controlling parent is someone who says, "Do this, that, or the other -- BECAUSE I SAID TO DO IT NOW!"

 

So a controlled kid learns to take orders. And if you're not giving orders she probably doesn't have a clue what to do.

 

She won't change over night either. Those lessons of listening to a controlling parent are very hard to over come. I still fight those demons and if I'm around a person who appears controlling or bossy, I get very quiet (and scared) and non participative.

 

I hope you'll reconsider her situation. I remember other adults becoming irritated w/ me as a kid and a teen, but I was only doing what I'd been programmed to do.

 

Alley

 

 

This post rings the most true, I think. If I hadn't known her mother for 12 years before this girl was even born, I would give her the benefit of the doubt. My sister who lives with me also has commented to me how debilitating my friend's control freak ways are to her daughter. She does the same thing to her husband. This stuff way predates her cancer diagnosis. That was only 4 years ago.

 

At times it seems like my god daughter is a voice activated robot. Of course, I'm exaggerating slightly and this is just my perspective, but I really worry about how she will function on her own as an adult.

 

Also, I have a diagnosed Asperger's son. I TOTALLY GET HAVING TO INSTRUCT A KID WHO HAS ISSUES. I don't think this is the case here, though.

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But given that the first baby many new parents today hold or take care if is THEIR OWN, I just don't think in our current culture in the US, most only children have any experience holding babies. Has she ever even been around one? How would she know what to do?

 

I agree with you that it seems as if she is rather helpless, but some guests do tend to hang back while others jump in and help. I've been with a big group of my relatives, and, while I am cooking, four adults will sit by and do NOTHING while my baby is in some precarious position, and I have to be the one to stop and entertain the baby. So I am not sure everyone is quite as self sufficient and helpful as we might expect or like.

 

Do those same guests need to be invited to use the toilet? Do they need to be addressed by name in order to participate in conversation? Do they need to be told to put their jackets on when it's time to go home? Do they need to be escorted to their cars in case something bad would happen to them in between your front door and their car? The baby example is just one of many where she stands around like a piece of furniture where other people would engage in the situation.

 

Her mother is not controlling in a mean way, like "Do it now because I said so!" It's more that she hyper monitors and directs all her daughter's actions so that her daughter is left with no initiative.

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But given that the first baby many new parents today hold or take care if is THEIR OWN, I just don't think in our current culture in the US, most only children have any experience holding babies. Has she ever even been around one? How would she know what to do?

 

I agree with you that it seems as if she is rather helpless, but some guests do tend to hang back while others jump in and help. I've been with a big group of my relatives, and, while I am cooking, four adults will sit by and do NOTHING while my baby is in some precarious position, and I have to be the one to stop and entertain the baby. So I am not sure everyone is quite as self sufficient and helpful as we might expect or like.

 

At 13, I never would have thought to help someone with a baby. Honestly, I'm still not great with babies. I had a great time with my own ds, but even now, I don't like holding anyone's baby or taking care of them.

 

I know the girl is getting on your nerves, and I suspect that the combination of the pain you're in and the complete lack of privacy in your home right now (with both this girl and the German girl) are both contributing to your annoyance.

 

But think of it this way -- the girl may seem a little helpless to you, but at least it seems like she's trying to be cooperative and pleasant. She's not complaining over every last little thing or picking on the other kids.

 

OK, she is being raised differently than your kids, but I don't think it's time to start worrying that she'll never get by in life because she's not exactly independent or responsible. She's 13. Lots of 13yos are flaky. And an indulged only child is probably going to need more guidance from you than a kid who's used to doing things for herself.

 

But please notice that I didn't say the girl was spoiled. Clearly, if she's as polite and cooperative as she sounds, her mom did something right. She's used to her mom doing everything for her at home, yet she's not complaining when you ask her to do things for herself at your house. A spoiled kid would be whining 24/7 and calling her mom to come and take her back home.

 

But I do sympathize with you, because it's hard having non-family members staying at your house for more than an overnight sleep-over, and when you're feeling lousy, the stress can be overwhelming and frustrating at times.

 

I'm glad you posted about it here. It can help to vent a little (or a lot.) I don't understand what's going on when people are criticized for posting a little vent. If they don't like the thread, they can move on to the next one.

 

Personally, I would hate it here if every single thread was about some sort of horrible crisis that someone was dealing with. I like the "small stuff" threads, and I can relate to a lot of them. I have no clue as to why self-appointed Forum Police are being so judgmental about what is and is not worthy of a thread here. :confused:

 

I hope your neck feels better soon! :grouphug:

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Do those same guests need to be invited to use the toilet? Do they need to be addressed by name in order to participate in conversation? Do they need to be told to put their jackets on when it's time to go home? Do they need to be escorted to their cars in case something bad would happen to them in between your front door and their car? The baby example is just one of many where she stands around like a piece of furniture where other people would engage in the situation.

 

Her mother is not controlling in a mean way, like "Do it now because I said so!" It's more that she hyper monitors and directs all her daughter's actions so that her daughter is left with no initiative.

Gosh, I wasn't there, so I don't think I would know the extent of things, and I am sorry my comments are making you upset. :001_huh: I'd be happy to delete them. I surely did not mean to attack you, in fact, I was trying to have a conversation, especially after you seemed upset about some of the other posts. I guess this is a JAWM thread with no real desire to have any kind of conversation?

 

And yes, I do know adults who stand around doing nothing until they're told. Lots of them.

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I understand where the OP is coming from. I have a friend who treats her 8 yo son similarly. I actually feel bad for the kid. he is completely helpless. He is a smart kid, no issues that I can tell but she oversees his every move. She even accompanies him to the bathroom in their own home to assist if he needs her. It's odd. It makes playdates strange for my kids. They are used to well, just playing. This kid is constantly going to his mother either telling her what he is going to do or asking her if he can do things. He can't even grab a glass of water by himself. I can't imagine a similar relationship with w 13 yo but I'm sure that is in the cards.

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That's sad, and it sounds like it's the fault of the mother. Why should her dd think or move or breathe for herself when someone is going to tell her when why where and how.

or worse - correct her for "doing it wrong" or "out of turn".

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To this day, when I am visiting someone's house, I am so afraid I will be in the way. I don't like it when someone is trying to "help" me in my house either. It's my house, I have a way of doing things, and I don't want you to mess with my system or whatever. Therefore, when I'm visiting someone, I don't just jump in and help.

 

I know that might make me seem spoiled, but honestly I just don't want to mess stuff up. Everyone has different preferences. Ask me to help? Oh, I'm there! I'll even ask if I can help but if you tell me no, that's the end of it. Don't expect me to keep asking (again, because it annoys me to no end when a guest in my house keeps asking. OK, I'm thinking of a very specific guest, but she does it constantly and it is anything but helpful).

 

I agree that a 13 year old girl may have no idea how to help with a baby. She might be afraid to hurt the baby, even. And if others are there to jump in and help, then she might be afraid she'll just get in the way.

 

I don't even know how to respond to the peeing comment-some people can just hold it for a long time. I don't think you should judge anything based on that. (I just think of how DH only seems to pee twice a day, whereas I go about once an hour. He's not uncomfortable and he's not lazy, he just holds it really well).

 

Leaving a bag of leftovers out? She could just be spacey. Sorry, but I AM a control freak and I've been leaving stuff out all the time lately.

 

I am not trying to berate you for your frustrations, I'm just giving you a different perspective on this. It may have nothing at all to do with parenting and everything to do with the girl's personality. If you want her to change, ASK HER to help. Give her SPECIFIC tasks to help with and let her be-she might be afraid of failure.

 

She might really appreciate being encouraged to help, you just might need to work with her personality a little is all. She might experience just enough confidence after completing a few tasks that she'll tackle more without being asked. And you might be surprised too!

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She is an only, but so is the German girl, and so is my 8 yr. old niece. They both automatically would stick the baby's pacifier back in his mouth if it fell out or reach to push the stroller back and forth if one of them started getting antsy. My god daughter is also shy and socially awkward. I often wonder if she's not somewhere on the spectrum. Hard to say with her mother hovering over her every second. I met her mother in college in 1987. I was her maid of honor and was in the delivery room when her daughter was born. I shaved my head when she lost her hair to chemo and went with her to the plastic surgeon to discuss breast reconstruction. She is my closest friend. I've said things to her like, "Geez, I hope H will know how to go to the bathroom by herself when she grows up!", in a sarcastic way so that she knows I think she's overdoing it. She just says something like, "You know how I am, I can't help it." My sister even said something to her when we were all at a scrapbooking weekend. H was going to walk back to their hotel room by herself. My friend was freaking out about it and wanted to go with her. My sister lost it and guilted my friend into letting H go by herself. My friend's husband (H's father) was in the room. The room was literally 2 doors down from our crop room. It was broad daylight. In the middle of Amish Country.

 

Reading your initial post it made me wonder if she was on the spectrum, her behaviors sound alot like my 13 year old Aspie. He really doesn't have much initiative. But, if asked, he would gladly do most things.

 

Sorry you are having a bad week - pain amplifies everything!

:grouphug:

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For the record, I never inferred, suggested, or otherwise stated she should not have posted her insignificant vent (her words, her title, not mine).

 

I did offer my opinion on her vent. I thought she was overreacting to a bunch of non-issues. When one posts on a public forum, one must be willing to accept opinions of others. One should be able to accept that others won't always agree with them. Otherwise, what is the point of venting on a public forum? If you just want everyone to agree with you, all the time...well, probably should just keep the vent to yourself, because that's not how life works when you interact with other humans.

 

Sometimes when you are venting, hearing another point of view, allows you to realize it's.just.not.that.big.of.a.deal, and let's you move on with life, focusing on issues that actually are big deals. People post on ths forum everyday, with major life issues, problems, etc. Those are big deals. People also post on this forum everyday about things that are no big deal..ie which vacuum should I buy? Post anything you feel you need to post. But just don't be offend if everyone doesn't come running to offer hugs, and tell you that you are 100% on the money, spot on, got it right and dang if that 13 year girl doesn't have some problems! If you feel the need to vent in a public, online international forum about a child who held their urine too long because they didn't want to ask to use the bathroom (which is a assumption btw, no real proof on that), then go ahead. It's.not.that.big.of.a.deal either way.

 

Feel free to disagree with me :D.

 

 

I do understand and apologize if I seemed oversensitive. I do not believe that everyone should agree, and I think opposing views can be helpful. Sometimes it just seems as though this board gets in these weird little patterns and seem a little over the top in strength of opinion.This is of course purely speculation and opinion on my part and I probably carried over some emotion from another thread at the time. :D

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Just my .02, but I grew up with very controlling parents and to this day I don't feel free to have needs, move about in a friend's kitchen etc. etc.

 

I know you don't need one more baby, but an over controlling parent is another form of abuse. They take away a person's natural instinct to think for oneself and be creative and have needs (like going to the bathroom).

 

My guess is that you're just seeing the tip of the iceberg. When she doesn't ask to use the bathroom it's because she feels scared to. It's very possible that when she doesn't step into help w/ the babies, she assumes that you wouldn't want her help. (I know that sounds bizarre, but I spent many years amazed to learn that people wanted my ideas, opinions, creativity. My parents never had.)

 

Even if your friend isn't as bad as my parents, controlling parents are absolutely no fun. At the end of a controlling parent is someone who says, "Do this, that, or the other -- BECAUSE I SAID TO DO IT NOW!"

 

So a controlled kid learns to take orders. And if you're not giving orders she probably doesn't have a clue what to do.

 

She won't change over night either. Those lessons of listening to a controlling parent are very hard to over come. I still fight those demons and if I'm around a person who appears controlling or bossy, I get very quiet (and scared) and non participative.

 

I hope you'll reconsider her situation. I remember other adults becoming irritated w/ me as a kid and a teen, but I was only doing what I'd been programmed to do.

 

Alley

 

or worse - correct her for "doing it wrong" or "out of turn".

 

This is exactly my experience as a child.

 

I totally get how it can be a burden to have to tell your 13 year old god daughter to do every little thing. But take heart, and be patient with her. It's good that you understand that she is this way because of her upbringing, not because she doesn't care, or is lazy, or whatever.

 

Since I once WAS this little girl, I'm guessing she just needs you to love her, instruct her, and be there for her.

 

We all understand something being 'the straw that broke the camel's back'. And it's totally a great idea to come vent here instead of at the child. :grouphug:

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I remember being about 10 years old and my great aunt and grandmother came and brought a cousin, who would have been about 8.

I remember being baffled at the fact that she was fascinated by the fact that my brother (7 at the time) and I could make our own sandwiches. And get our own drinks (my mom kept a container with a spigot in the fridge so we didn't even have to lift and pour).

 

As an adult in her upper 30s, she is still not very independent ... won't do anything without her mom's approval -- down to what soccer league to sign her 6 year old up for.

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To this day, when I am visiting someone's house, I am so afraid I will be in the way. I don't like it when someone is trying to "help" me in my house either. It's my house, I have a way of doing things, and I don't want you to mess with my system or whatever. Therefore, when I'm visiting someone, I don't just jump in and help.

 

I know that might make me seem spoiled, but honestly I just don't want to mess stuff up. Everyone has different preferences. Ask me to help? Oh, I'm there! I'll even ask if I can help but if you tell me no, that's the end of it. Don't expect me to keep asking (again, because it annoys me to no end when a guest in my house keeps asking. OK, I'm thinking of a very specific guest, but she does it constantly and it is anything but helpful).

 

I agree that a 13 year old girl may have no idea how to help with a baby. She might be afraid to hurt the baby, even. And if others are there to jump in and help, then she might be afraid she'll just get in the way.

 

I don't even know how to respond to the peeing comment-some people can just hold it for a long time. I don't think you should judge anything based on that. (I just think of how DH only seems to pee twice a day, whereas I go about once an hour. He's not uncomfortable and he's not lazy, he just holds it really well).

 

Leaving a bag of leftovers out? She could just be spacey. Sorry, but I AM a control freak and I've been leaving stuff out all the time lately.

 

I am not trying to berate you for your frustrations, I'm just giving you a different perspective on this. It may have nothing at all to do with parenting and everything to do with the girl's personality. If you want her to change, ASK HER to help. Give her SPECIFIC tasks to help with and let her be-she might be afraid of failure.

 

She might really appreciate being encouraged to help, you just might need to work with her personality a little is all. She might experience just enough confidence after completing a few tasks that she'll tackle more without being asked. And you might be surprised too!

 

:iagree:

 

I don't automatically jump to help when I'm in someone else's home, because I don't expect help when I have guests. I will usually offer to help, but sometimes I can tell that I'll only be in the way. I don't come from a family where everyone helps out in the kitchen, so I wouldn't feel comfortable just showing up in yours and starting to peel the veggies or something. I can definitely understand why a 13yo would hang back a bit.

 

I would think that your guest isn't jumping in to help because she's in your home, not her own, and she probably have no clue about what you want her to do. She may not have felt comfortable putting the leftovers in your refrigerator, especially if you seem to be very organized. It seems normal to me that she would have left them on the kitchen table for you to put away.

 

My ds12 would be very polite as a guest in your home, but I'm sure he wouldn't rush to help you with a baby, or do chores around the house unless you gave him specific instructions. To me, that seems perfectly normal.

 

And I really think the peeing thing is probably just a normal thing for the girl. Even if her mom is a control freak, I doubt she has a bathroom schedule for the kid.

 

As I think about this, I'm wondering if your issues are more with the mom than with the girl.

Edited by Catwoman
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You're right. I was aggravated by every little thing at that point. It was just the icing on the cake. I think a 13 yr. old should know that if she wants to actually eat her leftovers tomorrow, she needs to put them in the fridge. I guess I don't feel I should have to tell her to do something that obvious. I just put them in the fridge myself and vented here so that I wouldn't lose it with her.

 

My kids are not yet 13, but even if they were, they would not "know" this rule at your house. We do not refrigerate already cooked food, if at all possible. Leftovers are covered and left OUT because cooked, then refrigerated food is gross, IMO.

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My kids are not yet 13, but even if they were, they would not "know" this rule at your house. We do not refrigerate already cooked food, if at all possible. Leftovers are covered and left OUT because cooked, then refrigerated food is gross, IMO.

 

I would be sick as a dog if I ate leftovers that had been left out on the counter. Once the food reaches a certain temperature, bacteria and toxins start growing, and you can end up very sick as a result of eating that food.

 

I'm glad you guys have stronger stomachs than I do!

 

(But my ds wouldn't assume it was OK to put food in anyone's refrigerator, even though he does it at home. Honestly, I would feel weird about putting my leftovers in someone else's refrigerator, too -- I know I'm probably a nut, but it feels like an invasion of privacy to go into someone else's cabinets or their refrigerator unless they tell me it's OK to do it.)

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Gosh, I wasn't there, so I don't think I would know the extent of things, and I am sorry my comments are making you upset. :001_huh: I'd be happy to delete them. I surely did not mean to attack you, in fact, I was trying to have a conversation, especially after you seemed upset about some of the other posts. I guess this is a JAWM thread with no real desire to have any kind of conversation?

 

And yes, I do know adults who stand around doing nothing until they're told. Lots of them.

 

To this day, when I am visiting someone's house, I am so afraid I will be in the way. I don't like it when someone is trying to "help" me in my house either. It's my house, I have a way of doing things, and I don't want you to mess with my system or whatever. Therefore, when I'm visiting someone, I don't just jump in and help.

 

I know that might make me seem spoiled, but honestly I just don't want to mess stuff up. Everyone has different preferences. Ask me to help? Oh, I'm there! I'll even ask if I can help but if you tell me no, that's the end of it. Don't expect me to keep asking (again, because it annoys me to no end when a guest in my house keeps asking. OK, I'm thinking of a very specific guest, but she does it constantly and it is anything but helpful).

 

I agree that a 13 year old girl may have no idea how to help with a baby. She might be afraid to hurt the baby, even. And if others are there to jump in and help, then she might be afraid she'll just get in the way.

 

I don't even know how to respond to the peeing comment-some people can just hold it for a long time. I don't think you should judge anything based on that. (I just think of how DH only seems to pee twice a day, whereas I go about once an hour. He's not uncomfortable and he's not lazy, he just holds it really well).

 

Leaving a bag of leftovers out? She could just be spacey. Sorry, but I AM a control freak and I've been leaving stuff out all the time lately.

 

I am not trying to berate you for your frustrations, I'm just giving you a different perspective on this. It may have nothing at all to do with parenting and everything to do with the girl's personality. If you want her to change, ASK HER to help. Give her SPECIFIC tasks to help with and let her be-she might be afraid of failure.

 

She might really appreciate being encouraged to help, you just might need to work with her personality a little is all. She might experience just enough confidence after completing a few tasks that she'll tackle more without being asked. And you might be surprised too!

 

Reading your initial post it made me wonder if she was on the spectrum, her behaviors sound alot like my 13 year old Aspie. He really doesn't have much initiative. But, if asked, he would gladly do most things.

 

Sorry you are having a bad week - pain amplifies everything!

:grouphug:

 

This is exactly my experience as a child.

 

I totally get how it can be a burden to have to tell your 13 year old god daughter to do every little thing. But take heart, and be patient with her. It's good that you understand that she is this way because of her upbringing, not because she doesn't care, or is lazy, or whatever.

 

Since I once WAS this little girl, I'm guessing she just needs you to love her, instruct her, and be there for her.

 

We all understand something being 'the straw that broke the camel's back'. And it's totally a great idea to come vent here instead of at the child. :grouphug:

 

I remember being about 10 years old and my great aunt and grandmother came and brought a cousin, who would have been about 8.

I remember being baffled at the fact that she was fascinated by the fact that my brother (7 at the time) and I could make our own sandwiches. And get our own drinks (my mom kept a container with a spigot in the fridge so we didn't even have to lift and pour).

 

As an adult in her upper 30s, she is still not very independent ... won't do anything without her mom's approval -- down to what soccer league to sign her 6 year old up for.

 

:iagree:

 

I don't automatically jump to help when I'm in someone else's home, because I don't expect help when I have guests. I will usually offer to help, but sometimes I can tell that I'll only be in the way. I don't come from a family where everyone helps out in the kitchen, so I wouldn't feel comfortable just showing up in yours and starting to peel the veggies or something. I can definitely understand why a 13yo would hang back a bit.

 

I would think that your guest isn't jumping in to help because she's in your home, not her own, and she probably have no clue about what you want her to do. She may not have felt comfortable putting the leftovers in your refrigerator, especially if you seem to be very organized. It seems normal to me that she would have left them on the kitchen table for you to put away.

 

My ds12 would be very polite as a guest in your home, but I'm sure he wouldn't rush to help you with a baby, or do chores around the house unless you gave him specific instructions. To me, that seems perfectly normal.

 

And I really think the peeing thing is probably just a normal thing for the girl. Even if her mom is a control freak, I doubt she has a bathroom schedule for the kid.

 

As I think about this, I'm wondering if your issues are more with the mom than with the girl.

 

My kids are not yet 13, but even if they were, they would not "know" this rule at your house. We do not refrigerate already cooked food, if at all possible. Leftovers are covered and left OUT because cooked, then refrigerated food is gross, IMO.

 

 

Thanks for all your thoughts. I wasn't mad at anyone at all or upset by any comments. I was just trying to point out that her non reaction to the babies is typical of her non reaction to everything else in her surroundings. The girl is not a stranger to my house or my family or my rules. I watched her pop out of her mother's nether regions, and since then, she's spent a week at my house every summer, many weekends during the year, family vacations together, her parents watch my kids when dh and I go away. We celebrate the holidays together, etc. In fact, I'm named in her parents' wills as her guardian if anything happens to them. Yesterday was all about the straw that broke the camel's back. If I hadn't been in such miserable pain, I would not have lost my mind. I am totally used to her behavior. I actually do love her, her mother, and her father. I needed to vent yesterday about how I think my friend is crippling her daughter with her obsessive need to control all her actions. I think I made it pretty clear from the beginning that my issues are more with her mother than her. It was just the manifestations in her of her mother's domineering that sent me over the edge yesterday. I am certainly not a perfect parent, and I'm sure my friend might want to complain about how lackadaisical I am as a parent. Or a myriad of other faults that I might have. She has told me on many occasions what I'm doing wrong, just as I've told her what I think she's doing wrong. We are best friends and we can do that without it hurting our friendship. I do love and enjoy being around my god daughter. I do instruct her, guide her, help her in new situations, exactly like I do with my own kids. We had a lovely day together- me, my sister and the 7 kids. We went on excursions all over town and had a blast. The massage therapist at my chiropractor is a miracle worker! My neck is better except for the severe bruising where she rubbed the knot out.

 

Okay, fraidycat- you would eat leftover chicken parmigiana that had been sitting out all night? In the summer? Really? :eek::lol:

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Okay, fraidycat- you would eat leftover chicken parmigiana that had been sitting out all night? In the summer? Really? :eek::lol:

 

:ack2: :ack2: :ack2:

 

Can you tell that I'm really hoping she says she wouldn't eat it? :tongue_smilie:

 

 

Thanks for posting the update -- I hadn't realized that this kid was basically one of the family (I'm sure you'd already mentioned it, but I probably wasn't paying attention. :blush:) She sounds like a nice kid; it's too bad her mom has issues.

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Yep. I would, and do. ;). Chicken was already cooked to kill the bad stuff, I assume.

 

 

But new bacteria and toxins grow in already-cooked foods. Here are a few links. There are tons of articles and statistics about this stuff, but these have the basic info.

 

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/food-safety/AN01095/

 

http://www.food-safety-and-you.com/Leftovers.html

 

I don't mean to harp on this, but someone could get horribly ill from eating un-refrigerated leftovers.

Edited by Catwoman
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