marychance Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I get the feeling this could be a controversial subject but that's not the purpose of this post. As I've said before I'm brand new to homeschooling. The HSLDA was one of the first places I found when I was looking for what is required of us by law. Since then I've been encouraged to join by some while others whisper that its a crock. If you are a member of the HSLDA why did you join? If you think its not worth the money, why do you hold that opinion? I appreciate any well thought out opinions you can give! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 There are several posts on this topic. You might want to do a board search. All I can say is that I hate what they have tried to do here in IL. They get between legislators and their constituents, purporting to speak for all homeschoolers when they only represent a small segment of the homeschooling population. I don't like their politics. I don't like their methods. We have had to work very hard to undo the damage that they have done here in IL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 How about looking in some of these: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=363399&highlight=hslda http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=315007&highlight=hslda http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=308968&highlight=hslda http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/showthread.php?t=245727&highlight=hslda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I use their website for the state law summaries. I wouldn't think of joining because 1. I get emails from them and I don't agree with all the scare-mongering and completely non-HS related things they do, and 2. I don't anticipate any legal problems where I am. They also are butting themselves into domestic politics and foreign countries in a way I don't feel they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 If you think its not worth the money, why do you hold that opinion? I think they're con-men. I think they push local organizations out of the picture. I have called my local school/district/etc about many issues that other people called hslda about. I think it is better for people to be advocates for themselves, first. I think they encourage people to call their representatives about bills that have *nothing* to do with homeschooling, making homeschooling parents look like alarmist fools. http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/articles/070798.htm#.UBcep_X08dU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marychance Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Thanks for the links to other posts. For some reason I wasn't finding what I was looking for. I'll check them out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairyMom Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I think they're con-men. I think they push local organizations out of the picture. I have called my local school/district/etc about many issues that other people called hslda about. I think it is better for people to be advocates for themselves, first. I think they encourage people to call their representatives about bills that have *nothing* to do with homeschooling, making homeschooling parents look like alarmist fools. http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/articles/070798.htm#.UBcep_X08dU :iagree: Plus, they use the funds to push their political agenda, which is opposite of mine. I don't support them, but quite a few homeschool parents do. It is a heated topic. Hope it stays lukewarm. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmamaz Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I disagree with their politics (and they put a lot of money in to their politics), i think they are mostly making money on fear-mongering, I think since almost all states have clear laws, you dont need legal protection, you just need to know and follow your state laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Just to echo what the others have said. I do not agree with their politics, including intrusion into homeschooling in other countries where they don't seem to understand the political dynamic at play. I don't agree with their tactics, I don't agree everyone needs prepaid legal service to homeschool. I agree it is fear-mongering and unnecessary. There are other options if you feel you need some protection in order to homeschool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiobrain Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 It is sad, though not surpising, that H$LDA comes up so quickly when people first start looking for HS resources. I wish that wasn't the case. Look for state and local homeschool groups first. No state has laws that are too confusing or difficult. Heck, anyone on this board can do a very good job of answering any state questions you might have. All you need to do is to know your states rules and regs. Know them well. Print them out and keep them in a binder near the door if you must. If you follow your states rules and regs, and know them, that's all you really need. If you are involved in a nasty divorce, or dealing with CPS or a crazy district, you might need some help...but not from HSLDA, IMHO. There are other people better suited to that, and why put the cart before the horse? 99.8% of HSers have no real problems that would require legal assistance. Good luck with your HS journey! Don't be afraid to ask any questions here!:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) They have lobbied for *increased* regulations in some states. http://hsislegal.com/2009/09/hslda-runs-roughshod-in-nh/ HSLDA would prefer state jurisdiction and oversight of parents. In order to maintain control over the NH legislative process, HSLDA initiated its own legislation. More http://hsislegal.com/does_hslda_work_with_state_associations_and_support_the_autonomy_of_homeschoolers/ Edited July 31, 2012 by Sis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 They get between legislators and their constituents, purporting to speak for all homeschoolers when they only represent a small segment of the homeschooling population. I don't like their politics. I don't like their methods. I don't agree with all the scare-mongering and completely non-HS related things they do... They also are butting themselves into domestic politics and foreign countries in a way I don't feel they should. I think they're con-men. ... I think they encourage people to call their representatives about bills that have *nothing* to do with homeschooling, making homeschooling parents look like alarmist fools. :iagree: I think most of their political agenda has very little to do with education, and even when they claim to be advocating for homeschoolers, they often do more harm than good, e.g. in Illinois and in Europe (where local homeschoolers were begging them to stay out of it). Jackie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corraleno Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 IAll you need to do is to know your states rules and regs. Know them well. Print them out and keep them in a binder near the door if you must. If you follow your states rules and regs, and know them, that's all you really need. If you are involved in a nasty divorce, or dealing with CPS or a crazy district, you might need some help...but not from HSLDA, IMHO. There are other people better suited to that, and why put the cart before the horse? 99.8% of HSers have no real problems that would require legal assistance. :iagree: I believe they purposely try to make homeschooling laws seem much more difficult and complex than they are, to intimidate people into paying dues. Too many people think they're buying some kind of "legal insurance," which is really NOT what they're about. There's really nothing they offer that you can't get from local organizations, and in the extremely rare instance where you might need a letter from a lawyer to shut up some overzealous school district employee, you can probably get a letter from a local lawyer for much less than you'd pay for years of HSLDA "services." Oh, and they will NOT help in divorce cases — nor will they help if you're not the "right" kind of family, even if you've paid dues for years. Jackie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I use their website for the state law summaries. I'm lucky: my state organization has a nice fat website that lists the laws. That said, even that group is a little to purist for my tastes, but noisy zealots tend to have more energy in running an organization, and that is true of all things, not just homeschooling. I wouldn't wipe my shoes on HSLDA.;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I'm lucky: my state organization has a nice fat website that lists the laws. That said, even that group is a little to purist for my tastes, but noisy zealots tend to have more energy in running an organization, and that is true of all things, not just homeschooling. I wouldn't wipe my shoes on HSLDA.;) Not for my own, when we dream about moving and want to quickly check out other states' laws and compare them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujsky Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I use their website for the state law summaries. I wouldn't think of joining because 1. I get emails from them and I don't agree with all the scare-mongering and completely non-HS related things they do, and 2. I don't anticipate any legal problems where I am. They also are butting themselves into domestic politics and foreign countries in a way I don't feel they should. :iagree: That's my take on them as well. If I really get backed into a corner with homeschooling (I doubt that will happen) I'll hire my own lawyer. I don't like the idea of money I'm spending on HSLDA going towards causes I don't support. The one that stands out most in my mind is one in which they were fighting against allowing same-sex couples to adopt. The day I got that e-mail was the day I vowed never to join that organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnitWit Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I cancelled my membership the year that I read Raymond Moore's White Paper. http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/articles/070798.htm#.UBdHG2Ge7s8 Homeschooling is big money. I refuse to line anyone's pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I have nothing but the greatest respect for HSLDA and all the work those people have done over the last almost 30 years. Most homeschoolers will never know the extent to which HSLDA has been involved behind the scenes as well as in the front lines of fighting for the rights of parents to teach their own children at home but for which homeschoolers can be forever thankful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I have nothing but the greatest respect for HSLDA and all the work those people have done over the last almost 30 years. Most homeschoolers will never know the extent to which HSLDA has been involved behind the scenes as well as in the front lines of fighting for the rights of parents to teach their own children at home but for which homeschoolers can be forever thankful. I am not thankful for them lobbying to increase regulations in many states and making things more difficult for many homeschoolers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I am not thankful for them lobbying to increase regulations in many states and making things more difficult for many homeschoolers. This will be my only response, because HSLDA threads don't go anywhere but down. HSLDA doesn't lobby to increase regulations. HSLDA doesn't lobby. When local homeschoolers invite HSLDA to help them out, HSLDA does its best to make sure that the regulations aren't nearly as difficult as the legislators wanted in the first place, and they work with state homeschool leaders in the process. The final legislation is the best compromise possible. That is all I have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeacefulChaos Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I am not a member of HSLDA and I don't plan on becoming one any time soon. I think they do a lot of stirring up fear in people that is unwarranted. I don't necessarily think that they should be supporting political causes that, while I don't necessarily disagree with them, are not related to homeschooling - I feel like they should be about homeschooling, period. If things became such as I felt I needed them for the legal side of it, I would consider it further. But as of right now, I'm not interested in what they sell. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 This will be my only response, because HSLDA threads don't go anywhere but down. HSLDA doesn't lobby to increase regulations. HSLDA doesn't lobby. When local homeschoolers invite HSLDA to help them out, HSLDA does its best to make sure that the regulations aren't nearly as difficult as the legislators wanted in the first place, and they work with state homeschool leaders in the process. The final legislation is the best compromise possible. That is all I have to say. :confused: Ellie, I love you bunches, but I don't understand this. I was at a homeschool conference a few years ago and sat down with one of their lead lawyers who was telling about the different states they were lobbying in. The main gist of his presentation later on was about how your membership didn't just get you protection when you needed it, but HSDLA was already being proactive and lobbying for our interests. Taking the fight to the offensive verses defensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 They'll never get a dime of my money. Why? Because of political lobbying that *I* don't consider related to homeschooling. Yeah, I've read their justification as to why it's related. I disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I will never, ever join. I've read way too much about how they want to make sure homeschooling "remains Christian," whatever the heck that means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamakven Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 has anyone used the special needs benefits that they offer? that's why i've been considering joining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 HSLDA doesn't lobby. Yes, they do. From the HSLDA FAQ: 3. Does HSLDA have a lobbying agenda? Yes. On the federal level, we oppose legislation that would reduce parental freedoms and promote legislation that would increase parental freedoms and strengthen the family. In state legislatures, we work in conjunction with the state organizations towards the same goals. In representing the best interests of our members, we build consensus with the state leadership before we attempt any legislative initiative in a state. As a result of that cooperation, we have worked together with many homeschool leaders to improve the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Maybe years ago they were actually interested in protecting the rights of homeschoolers. Over time it has become clear their primary purpose is promoting a particular political agenda, most of which has nothing to do with homeschooling. Using their name to swindle fees from homeschooling families, who often don't realize the legal help promised by HSLDA is not guaranteed, is disingenuous at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 There are several posts on this topic. You might want to do a board search. All I can say is that I hate what they have tried to do here in IL. They get between legislators and their constituents, purporting to speak for all homeschoolers when they only represent a small segment of the homeschooling population. I don't like their politics. I don't like their methods. We have had to work very hard to undo the damage that they have done here in IL. I have nothing but the greatest respect for HSLDA and all the work those people have done over the last almost 30 years. Most homeschoolers will never know the extent to which HSLDA has been involved behind the scenes as well as in the front lines of fighting for the rights of parents to teach their own children at home but for which homeschoolers can be forever thankful. This will be my only response, because HSLDA threads don't go anywhere but down. HSLDA doesn't lobby to increase regulations. HSLDA doesn't lobby. When local homeschoolers invite HSLDA to help them out, HSLDA does its best to make sure that the regulations aren't nearly as difficult as the legislators wanted in the first place, and they work with state homeschool leaders in the process. The final legislation is the best compromise possible. That is all I have to say. Do you believe the top poster is lying? That HSLDA is lying about themselves on their own site? Do you think Raymond Moore had reason to lie? Your assertions make no sense, given the evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairyMom Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I have nothing but the greatest respect for HSLDA and all the work those people have done over the last almost 30 years. Most homeschoolers will never know the extent to which HSLDA has been involved behind the scenes as well as in the front lines of fighting for the rights of parents to teach their own children at home but for which homeschoolers can be forever thankful. Good grief... Really? Hogwash. This will be my only response, because HSLDA threads don't go anywhere but down. HSLDA doesn't lobby to increase regulations. HSLDA doesn't lobby. When local homeschoolers invite HSLDA to help them out, HSLDA does its best to make sure that the regulations aren't nearly as difficult as the legislators wanted in the first place, and they work with state homeschool leaders in the process. The final legislation is the best compromise possible. That is all I have to say. Not true, plain and simple. They use their funds to lobby against non-homeschooling issues. I'm a lifetime member, and I have used their services a few times. They were extremely helpful and polite, giving me as much time and help as I needed. I'm thankful that they advocate for homeschoolers and paved the way for us to have the freedoms that we have today. If you are in Texas and need their help with no regulations whatsoever, you are clueless. It's like paying your dog $1000 to defend your house from rats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pageta Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I swear, the bitterness against HSLDA and the reasons given for such make me want to run out and renew my membership right now. If you're liberal and and secular and don't believe in the family structure and think that the government knows better how to raise your children than you do, then you will hate HSLDA. If you believe in traditional family values, then you will probably like them and appreciate their services. HSLDA supports parental rights amendments, contrary to the UN and other organizations that are trying to erode the rights of the parents. They do lobby on behalf of that cause. If you believe in parental rights, you probably won't mind indirectly funding their activities on that matter. If you think the US should be more like Europe or Canada, parental rights will probably irritate you and you might want to consider other options. In our state, I have seen them consistently try to minimize legislation overseeing homeschoolers. They take the proposed legislation and explain their position on it and what changes they believe should be made. I have yet to disagree with any of their suggestions - in our state. I do not claim to be an expert on legislation in other states. I've also seen them take cases in our state where homeschoolers were following the law but government authorities were extending their oversight beyond their bounds. So just because you are "following the law" doesn't mean you won't need to deal with authorities on some level. In our state, if your children are in public school and miss a certain number of school days, even if those absences were excused you automatically get referred to the attorney general and have to hire a lawyer to defend yourself. That makes me nervous, even though my children are not in public school. As to whether prepaid legal assistance is necessary for homeschooling - that is the question. We have a rogue family member who likes to make things up about us and then complain to everyone else (e.g. I have a low-end dSLR camera, and this family member accused us of starving our children because I have that camera - seriously). We will probably renew our membership at the beginning of the school year just for peace of mind in dealing with whatever that family member might stir up. I would recommend talking to local homeschoolers in your are to get their take on HSLDA. Unfortunately, on this board, there is a core group of HSLDA-haters who will take over any thread even remotely related to HSLDA and you will not get a balanced response whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) I swear, the bitterness against HSLDA and the reasons given for such make me want to run out and renew my membership right now. If you're liberal and and secular and don't believe in the family structure and think that the government knows better how to raise your children than you do, then you will hate HSLDA. If you believe in traditional family values, then you will probably like them and appreciate their services. HSLDA supports parental rights amendments, contrary to the UN and other organizations that are trying to erode the rights of the parents. They do lobby on behalf of that cause. If you believe in parental rights, you probably won't mind indirectly funding their activities on that matter. If you think the US should be more like Europe or Canada, parental rights will probably irritate you and you might want to consider other options. Wow. That is a lot of assumptions. I am liberal and "secular" in the sense that I'm not a Christian. I believe strongly in family values, although mine probably aren't the same as yours. I absolutely do not believe the government should raise my child. I value my right to make decisions for my own family very, very highly. And, following a legal disaster that put my family through hell for several years, I also believe strongly in parental rights. But I cannot stand the HSLDA. I find their stances on many issues to be repugnant. And I think, in the name of honesty, they should take that "HS" out of their name, since homeschooling appears to be the least of their concerns. People like to believe that an HSLDA membership is like insurance. They seem to think that, as long as they pay the membership fees, they can be certain the HSLDA will help them if they ever need it. To me, though, it looks like a scam: They scare people into believing they need protection (like gangsters in old movies), then take that membership money and spend it lobbying for things that have nothing to do with their presumed primary purpose. The HSLDA is also not "prepaid legal services." They have no actual obligation to assist any member and have absolute discretion to decline any request. Your membership buys you nothing except a little (perhaps unrealistic) peace of mind. In 14 years of homeschooling in two states, I've never had a single problem with any outside authority. If I did, I have confidence I'd handle it. I know the law in my state, and I'm just as capable of writing those "strongly worded letters" everyone mentions the HSLDA providing as they are. Edited July 31, 2012 by Jenny in Florida Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) If you believe in traditional family values, then you will probably like them and appreciate their services. Except if a very conservative woman's husband leaves her for someone else (as has happend to plenty of very conservative women, including those who are opposed to adultery and divorce) and homeschooling gets caught up in custody battles, HSLDA is very open about refusing to get involved. (Also some very conservative people believe in less government involvement, and HSLDA gets involved in promoting government regulations of certain activities.) Eta: Here are their list of items they're lobbing about http://nche.hslda.org/Lobbying/ Edited July 31, 2012 by stripe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I swear, the bitterness against HSLDA and the reasons given for such make me want to run out and renew my membership right now. If you're liberal and and secular and don't believe in the family structure and think that the government knows better how to raise your children than you do, then you will hate HSLDA. If you believe in traditional family values, then you will probably like them and appreciate their services. Wow. :001_huh: Many people on here don't fit into neat little liberal, secular or traditional boxes. Your underlying comments on family structure have been discussed ad nauseam on this board and honestly has nothing to do with homeschooling, which is one of the reasons I don't support HSLDA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Here's one I hadn't seen before: oppose anti-discrimination-against-women. The UN is opposed to women being mothers! Traditional roles are essential to homeschooling! http://www.hslda.org/Legislation/National/2011/H.R.20/default.asp H. Res. 20—“Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives that the Senate should ratify the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW).” HSLDA’s Position: Oppose. Background: CEDAW is a U.N. treaty signed by President Carter but never ratified by the U.S. Senate. The treaty calls on its signers to eliminate all forms of discrimination against women. If the Senate ratified this treaty, it and a U.N. committee’s directives would become the supreme law of the land due to the supremacy clause in our Constitution. HSLDA is concerned about giving the U.N. that much power over our daily lives; especially since the U.N. committee’s directives have included trying to eliminate the traditional roles of men and women, including seeing women as mothers and teaching an understanding of a traditional family to children. HSLDA deems this treaty as very harmful and dangerous to homeschooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pageta Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Wow. :001_huh: Many people on here don't fit into neat little liberal, secular or traditional boxes. Your underlying comments on family structure have been discussed ad nauseam on this board and honestly has nothing to do with homeschooling, which is one of the reasons I don't support HSLDA. Nobody fits into a neat little box, including HSLDA. I am sure that they (as with any law firm) have handled cases in ways that (in hindsight) I might not always completely agree with. However, stereotypes come from somewhere. If you tally the list of issues cited (when they are in fact cited, as they often are not) on this thread (or any HSLDA thread), you will find that they are largely liberal in nature. Generally if you're conservative, you support HSLDA and the issues they take a stand on, and if you're liberal, you loathe them with every cell in your body. Generally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Generally if you're conservative, you support HSLDA and the issues they take a stand on, and if you're liberal, you loathe them with every cell in your body. Generally. So, explain to me, please, what politics have to do with homeschooling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pageta Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 So, explain to me, please, what politics have to do with homeschooling? What do politics have to do with where you buy a chicken sandwich? It's a chicken sandwich, for goodness sake! There are lots of things that can be correlated with politics that aren't tied to them directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Nobody fits into a neat little box, including HSLDA. I am sure that they (as with any law firm) have handled cases in ways that (in hindsight) I might not always completely agree with. However, stereotypes come from somewhere. If you tally the list of issues cited (when they are in fact cited, as they often are not) on this thread (or any HSLDA thread), you will find that they are largely liberal in nature. Generally if you're conservative, you support HSLDA and the issues they take a stand on, and if you're liberal, you loathe them with every cell in your body. Generally. Well I don't fit your "generally" category anyway. My issue is what the political leanings of a person have to do with homeschooling anyway. If HSLDA wants to tout themselves as the leading homeschooling supporter then make it about homeschooling, not a liberal/conservative agenda. They were heavily marketed to me when we first started homeschooling. I never saw the need, I don't loathe them (and I'm not necessarily liberal). I just don't use them and I don't like their strategy. They really don't enter into my day-to-day thoughts at all. I just think they thinly veil themselves to new homeschoolers and people should know what they're paying for if they choose to use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 What do politics have to do with where you buy a chicken sandwich? It's a chicken sandwich, for goodness sake! There are lots of things that can be correlated with politics that aren't tied to them directly. Well, as a vegan, I'm not buying a chicken sandwich anywhere. But I think my reasoning is similar in the two cases, actually. If I did eat chicken, I would boycott Chick-fil-a because I don't want my money going to causes I find repugnant. I'm a homeschooler, but I "boycott" HSLDA for the same reasons. However, my point was that I fail to see how it is appropriate for an organization that claims to be about representing homeschoolers to get so deeply involved in political issues that have nothing to do with homeschooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisbeth Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Love 'em, use 'em, recommend them.:tongue_smilie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Nobody fits into a neat little box, including HSLDA. I am sure that they (as with any law firm) have handled cases in ways that (in hindsight) I might not always completely agree with. However, stereotypes come from somewhere. If you tally the list of issues cited (when they are in fact cited, as they often are not) on this thread (or any HSLDA thread), you will find that they are largely liberal in nature. Generally if you're conservative, you support HSLDA and the issues they take a stand on, and if you're liberal, you loathe them with every cell in your body. Generally. Not buying it. I generally vote libertarian/conservative these days. I'm Christian. Neither of those have anything to do with my stated reason for finding them unnecessary and repugnant. They claim to be a HOMESCHOOLING law firm, one that you pay an annual fee to for assurance that they might represent you should you need it. That in itself is ridiculous. Then they take that money and use it to fund their lobbying interests, and insert themselves into state, national, and foreign politics that they don't understand--even with homeschoolers begging them to stop because all they're doing is making things worse. They prey on creating a feeling of homeschooling being a scary, marginalized experience with which you need their help. That's how they make their money and spend it. If I ever needed a lawyer to deal with a homeschooling issue, I'd hire one. I would never pay a substantial yearly fee to HSLDA in hopes that they might help me if I needed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I swear, the bitterness against HSLDA and the reasons given for such make me want to run out and renew my membership right now. If you're liberal and and secular and don't believe in the family structure and think that the government knows better how to raise your children than you do, then you will hate HSLDA. If you believe in traditional family values, then you will probably like them and appreciate their services. Well I don't fit your "generally" category anyway. My issue is what the political leanings of a person have to do with homeschooling anyway. If HSLDA wants to tout themselves as the leading homeschooling supporter then make it about homeschooling, not a liberal/conservative agenda. :iagree: I think we would see a different response to HSLDA if they presented themselves as an organization that lobbies for conservative social causes, particularly those related to parental control. But they don't. They present themselves as the voice of homeschoolers, representing and portraying the views of homeschoolers. I live in a liberal state with a Democratic governor and a heavily Democratic legislature. Having homeschooling be strongly associated in people's minds with a conservative Republican agenda does not protect my homeschooling freedoms - it threatens them. I want homeschooling to be portrayed as a nonpartisan educational choice. I don't want it bundled together with other positions that my legislators oppose. How about AdventureMoms and other lesbian homeschoolers on this board? When HSLDA argues that the right to homeschool depends on banning gay marriage (seriously, they did say that), do you think AdventureMoms feels represented? And yet they use their considerable financial and political power to argue that state legislatures should take their word for what "homeschoolers" want... all homeschoolers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Nobody fits into a neat little box, including HSLDA. ...Generally if you're conservative, you support HSLDA and the issues they take a stand on, and if you're liberal, you loathe them with every cell in your body. Generally. I am concerned that if homeschooling gets put into a conservative box in the eyes of politicians, when liberals are in power they (liberal politicians) will be reflexively anti-homeschooling. If homeschooling is more accurately portrayed as something that families all across the political spectrum embrace, then we are more likely to get bi-partisan support, which makes us all stronger and safer. In addition, advocates who make it a point to understand the wide range of approaches and philosophies within the homeschooling community, including both stereotypical ABeka-using Christians and stereotypical hippie leftie secular unschoolers (and everything in-between), are more likely to craft or advocate for legislation that works for a wide range of families, instead of assuming that everyone homeschools in a particular way, for particular reasons. Breastfeeding advocates have traditionally taken a "don't mix issues" standpoint for their organizations, which enables both liberals and conservatives to put aside their differences and stand together on issues that affect breastfeeding mothers, and enables both liberal and conservative politicians to get involved with the issue. I think homeschooling organizations would be wise to follow their lead. We are stronger when we stand together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Good grief... Really? Hogwash. Not true, plain and simple. They use their funds to lobby against non-homeschooling issues. If you are in Texas and need their help with no regulations whatsoever, you are clueless. It's like paying your dog $1000 to defend your house from rats. Since her DH is military, she has lived in many places. I believe she had issues in another state, maybe North Dakota? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pageta Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 However, my point was that I fail to see how it is appropriate for an organization that claims to be about representing homeschoolers to get so deeply involved in political issues that have nothing to do with homeschooling. I guess the disagreement is whether or not those issues have anything to do with homeschooling. I support HSLDA because they support homeschooling and because they support issues I support. Both reasons are equally important to me when I write out my check for membership dues. I don't really worry about how directly those issues they support are tied to homeschooling, though I do believe there is a relationship to a varying degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschickie Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 We are members of HSLDA and I cannot imagine hs'ing without them. I know several people in our area who have had to use their services in dealing with local districts. There have also been some pretty big cases in the state where they have helped families persecuted by the courts. There may be some states where having a hs specialized lawyer on speed dial is not really needed but in some areas of the country I really think it is a good idea. Now personally I do not mind the issues HSLDA supports but if you do not agree with it you do not have to join, simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Wow. :001_huh: Many people on here don't fit into neat little liberal, secular or traditional boxes. Your underlying comments on family structure have been discussed ad nauseam on this board and honestly has nothing to do with homeschooling, which is one of the reasons I don't support HSLDA. No kidding :glare: What a judgmental thing to say. Here's one I hadn't seen before: oppose anti-discrimination-against-women. The UN is opposed to women being mothers! Traditional roles are essential to homeschooling! http://www.hslda.org/Legislation/National/2011/H.R.20/default.asp H. Res. 20—“Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives that the Senate should ratify the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW).†HSLDA’s Position: Oppose. Background: CEDAW is a U.N. treaty signed by President Carter but never ratified by the U.S. Senate. The treaty calls on its signers to eliminate all forms of discrimination against women. If the Senate ratified this treaty, it and a U.N. committee’s directives would become the supreme law of the land due to the supremacy clause in our Constitution. HSLDA is concerned about giving the U.N. that much power over our daily lives; especially since the U.N. committee’s directives have included trying to eliminate the traditional roles of men and women, including seeing women as mothers and teaching an understanding of a traditional family to children. HSLDA deems this treaty as very harmful and dangerous to homeschooling. :eek::svengo::banghead: Seriously? They are going to oppose a non-discrimination against women treaty? :tongue_smilie: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I am concerned that if homeschooling gets put into a conservative box in the eyes of politicians, when liberals are in power they (liberal politicians) will be reflexively anti-homeschooling. My experience wasn't with politicians, but with my own church. I'm a Unitarian Universalist, a very liberal denomination. And we didn't intially get a lot of support from our church for homeschooling. UU congregations have an unusually large number of professional educators, for one thing. But there is also the perception that homeschooling is a right-wing conservative fundamentalist choice. When I wanted to start a small co-op using church facilities, I had quite a job explaining to the board and administration that liberals homeschool, too. There was a lot of resistance to allowing us to meet on the campus until I brought in research about liberal and other UU homeschoolers and did a presentation to the board. My kids have also encountered some negativity from adults in the church about homeschooling. Fortunately, we've now been around long enough that people finally got used to us. And I like to think we've changed some minds. One of my favorite stories about this: My son LOVES to talk and has never been shy about speaking his mind in front of a crowd. One day, during Words for All Ages (which is when they bring the kids up to the front of the sanctuary and do a story or a simple activity), my then-seven-year-old stood up and held forth on some topic or other in response to a question from the minister. Later, during coffee hour, another homeschooling mom mentioned to me that one of the older ladies had been giving her a hard time about homeschooling. Apparently, the older woman had referred to "that boy who spoke during the service today" as an example of how much kids are expected to know these days and how important it is to get kids in school so they get a good education. My friend was a very shy, polite person and apparently didn't have the presence of mind to point out that "that boy" was actually a homeschooler. The point is that I don't think it does any of us any good to have homeschooling ridigly aligned with one political philosophy. And I believe that the image the HSLDA portrays of homeschoolers actually does a disservice to the general cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnitWit Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I am concerned that if homeschooling gets put into a conservative box in the eyes of politicians, when liberals are in power they (liberal politicians) will be reflexively anti-homeschooling. If homeschooling is more accurately portrayed as something that families all across the political spectrum embrace, then we are more likely to get bi-partisan support, which makes us all stronger and safer. In addition, advocates who make it a point to understand the wide range of approaches and philosophies within the homeschooling community, including both stereotypical ABeka-using Christians and stereotypical hippie leftie secular unschoolers (and everything in-between), are more likely to craft or advocate for legislation that works for a wide range of families, instead of assuming that everyone homeschools in a particular way, for particular reasons. Breastfeeding advocates have traditionally taken a "don't mix issues" standpoint for their organizations, which enables both liberals and conservatives to put aside their differences and stand together on issues that affect breastfeeding mothers, and enables both liberal and conservative politicians to get involved with the issue. I think homeschooling organizations would be wise to follow their lead. We are stronger when we stand together. :iagree: I don't fit your box Pageta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I know several people in our area who have had to use their services in dealing with local districts. There have also been some pretty big cases in the state where they have helped families persecuted by the courts. I absolutely promise I'm not being snarky: I would really like to hear details about these cases in which the HSLDA assisted people in your area and about the court cases. If you wouldn't mind sharing some information and/or pointing me to references, I'd genuinely appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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