**Vent** Dog rescue person

[Lara in Colo]

If you love your breed and want the best for it, do not be rude and condescending to the person who is really trying to get help with their new puppy on how to best train him.

 

I was told that since I **should ** have used a breeder but did not, (that the breeder would help me with *everything* from proper training to temperment matching) this person could not answer my questions. I am apparently one of the evil people that gets dogs and leaves them in shelters for them to deal with.

 

I have never given a dog to a shelter, I have been through puppy school 3 times. I have gotten my pets from shelters, breeders and backyard owners.

The worst experiences have been from shelters. My questions to this person, who claims to be knowlegeble of the breed, were breed specific with regards to training.

I asked her to help me understand how this breed differs from traditional dog psychology and how to adjust my training of him from the mainstream training techniques.

 

"I do not have time as I have to deal with the dogs in rescue, from people such as yourself that obtained them from ranches and backyard breeders that do not help you. As you know people are told by the humane society it is their responsibility to obtain dogs from reputable breeders that will help them, not dump it on rescue..."

 

Seriously???? You are passionate about the breed, but how does NOT helping me understand the breed, help anyone???? The dog is born, I own it, I need advice. Perhaps if I give it to a shelter, then get it out, I can get her advice??

 

This person was rude and did not make me want to EVER deal with a rescue group. Oh btw-- the only help I have ever gotten from a shelter or a breeder is help getting my check cashed.

 

rant over

 

Lara

[Jean in Newcastle]

What breed dog? Perhaps we could help?

[Denisemomof4]

I have never once had a bad rescue experience, and I not only have three rescue DOGS right now, I have a wide variety of rescue animals. Not one of the rescue places I have dealt with (numerous and in Numerous states) have shunned me.

 

That woman is an idiot and is doing dogs a disservice.

[itsheresomewhere]

Sadly, that is the typical response for rescues here. Try googling for your breed's national rescue/fan club. They often have wonderful help that way.

[Lara in Colo]

What breed dog? Perhaps we could help?

 

 

He is an Akbash and we are doing great together. (He is a little stubborn).

 

But I wanted to know, since he is a breed that watches over other animals, if staying in a crate overnight much past 6 months would make him frustrated rather than feel insulated. The only reason he is in a crate now is to stop him from peeing in the house. I also want him to be protective at night and a crated animal cannot really patrol the house. I have never crate trained before and my chow would have hated not being in a place where she could hear danger at night and react to it.

 

I wanted to know if making him walk behind me on leash would make him feel more frustrated than feel protected. He watches the children on walks and likes to be able to see them and know where they are, this doesn't sound like a dog that is upset by "being in charge" like the manuals say.

 

I find my instincts about him to go against typical training for say a... golden.

I don't **really** know if this is a "pack" type dog, I know he wants to be pack leader, but if I don't allow him to be who he is, will I ruin him? and what are the guidelines.

 

I am establishing pack leader currently by making him stay in a "place" near me, making him wait for my command to eat, making him wait for me to go through doors/stairs first. I have dealt with his his food aggression until he lets me and the children touch him and his bowl without growling.

He knows sit. stay, wait, leave it, and come. (come is a little weak)

 

I have been doing a lot of research on the breed to better understand/train him.

He is a gentle, yet stubborn soul and I don't want to train him against his natural leanings.

 

 

In my research I ran across a blog that gave more info about the breed than the usual propaganda. I emailed her some of these questions and she basically told me since I used a non approved breeder, I am evil and not worth her time.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Lara in Colo

[kalanamak]

IME, some rescue people are really, really stressed. They take on a job and it is huge, or they are very "soft" people and the sad stories build up. I gave a rabbit rescue lady enough money to spay the rabbit I brought (someone dumped it on my property) and she broke down into tears.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Margaret in CO has an akbash and Impish has an akbash cross. Perhaps one of them can help.

[Lara in Colo]

Margaret in CO has an akbash and Impish has an akbash cross. Perhaps one of them can help.

 

 

Margaret is who I got Findley from, but her dogs are working dogs and sleep outside and mine is a companion dog.

 

Impish has the same mix, so I might bug her. I was just trying to solve this problem on my own :D

[Remudamom]

bumping for you. IMP????? ASTRID???

[vettechmomof2]

I am on my kindle but can write tomoorow. I have ASD's and work with the breed rescue. I also do many training classes with my pups and can give you some guidelines to work with.

also you can join our yahoo group. I will send you the info tkmorrow.

[Lara in Colo]

bump

[Impish]

Honestly, I'm not comfy giving you training advice, b/c, frankly, I don't know if we did it 'right' w/Cassie. I can tell you our experience, though.

 

Cassie does walk ahead. She's UBER protective of the kids, esp Diva.

 

This has caused some issues. A big dog barking at ppl tends to make them label her 'aggressive'. :001_huh: I had one idiot, before we move, get in my face, complaining about her being aggressive. His reasoning? He approached Diva when she was out walking Cassie, and when he approached her, Cassie barked. When he KEPT approaching Diva (like, w/in touching distance) Cassie growled at him. Wolf, who was w/me, spoke up and said, "That's what we WANT her to do. We don't WANT ppl to approach our dd."

 

We don't crate Cassie at night. We crate her if we're going out, and if the kids are running in and out of the house. Biggest issue we have w/her is that she wants to 'go on patrol' ie take off out of the house and run. It's instinct on her part, what she's meant to do, but a huge PITA when her recall sucks.

 

She's fantastic w/the kids, great w/Bazinga, but like I said, I wouldn't offer training tips w/this breed b/c I'm sure there's something we *should* have done, but haven't...or vice versa.

 

oh, we also feed her in her crate, exclusively.

[mommaduck]

If you love your breed and want the best for it, do not be rude and condescending to the person who is really trying to get help with their new puppy on how to best train him.

 

I was told that since I **should ** have used a breeder but did not, (that the breeder would help me with *everything* from proper training to temperment matching) this person could not answer my questions. I am apparently one of the evil people that gets dogs and leaves them in shelters for them to deal with.

 

I have never given a dog to a shelter, I have been through puppy school 3 times. I have gotten my pets from shelters, breeders and backyard owners.

The worst experiences have been from shelters. My questions to this person, who claims to be knowlegeble of the breed, were breed specific with regards to training.

I asked her to help me understand how this breed differs from traditional dog psychology and how to adjust my training of him from the mainstream training techniques.

 

"I do not have time as I have to deal with the dogs in rescue, from people such as yourself that obtained them from ranches and backyard breeders that do not help you. As you know people are told by the humane society it is their responsibility to obtain dogs from reputable breeders that will help them, not dump it on rescue..."

 

Seriously???? You are passionate about the breed, but how does NOT helping me understand the breed, help anyone???? The dog is born, I own it, I need advice. Perhaps if I give it to a shelter, then get it out, I can get her advice??

 

This person was rude and did not make me want to EVER deal with a rescue group. Oh btw-- the only help I have ever gotten from a shelter or a breeder is help getting my check cashed.

 

rant over

 

Lara

:grouphug: Sheesh! Every family and every dog is different. There are some people that getting a bred dog of a certain breed is the best choice. For others, a rescue works well. I grew up with dogs (either pound puppies or dogs that were bred and kept in the family). My grandmother kept dobbies, my sisters keep German Shepards, dh's uncle kept pits, and my parents kept rescues and toy poodles. My husband and I keep rescued and foster cats (he grew up with cats, but he's allergic to certain breeds). We had a farm dog once and we gave him away to a hog farmer.

[Lara in Colo]

Honestly, I'm not comfy giving you training advice, b/c, frankly, I don't know if we did it 'right' w/Cassie. I can tell you our experience, though.

 

Cassie does walk ahead. She's UBER protective of the kids, esp Diva.

 

This has caused some issues. A big dog barking at ppl tends to make them label her 'aggressive'. :001_huh: I had one idiot, before we move, get in my face, complaining about her being aggressive. His reasoning? He approached Diva when she was out walking Cassie, and when he approached her, Cassie barked. When he KEPT approaching Diva (like, w/in touching distance) Cassie growled at him. Wolf, who was w/me, spoke up and said, "That's what we WANT her to do. We don't WANT ppl to approach our dd."

 

We don't crate Cassie at night. We crate her if we're going out, and if the kids are running in and out of the house. Biggest issue we have w/her is that she wants to 'go on patrol' ie take off out of the house and run. It's instinct on her part, what she's meant to do, but a huge PITA when her recall sucks.

 

She's fantastic w/the kids, great w/Bazinga, but like I said, I wouldn't offer training tips w/this breed b/c I'm sure there's something we *should* have done, but haven't...or vice versa.

 

oh, we also feed her in her crate, exclusively.

 

 

This is helpful. I read somewhere if you don't work on the "come" command really well by 4 months you will never get it.... hmmm already missed that boat. His recall is about 75%, so not enough to really trust him. He doesn't look at all like your dog, no fuzzy fur, he is more of smooth coated akbash and less pyrenees. (His attitude is the same).

 

I want him to be protective of the children (esp on walks) but I also want him to be trusted when I am not there. Right now he will bite the children if they engage in play or take my youngest daughter (and my least aggressive) for a drag around the yard, so I am doing more submission training with those two.

 

This is a battle I am prepared to make, I just want to do right by this puppy and not ruin him with the wrong training. There just isn't enough out there about this breed to really know what to do, and I know in my heart that traditional methods won't be right for him (he is just too much of an independent thinker (which is good and bad).

[Impish]

I've never had an issue w/Cassie being nippy w/the kids, beyond the typical puppy teething thing, and that was short lived, so I have no suggestions on that.

[justamouse]

He is an Akbash and we are doing great together. (He is a little stubborn).

 

But I wanted to know, since he is a breed that watches over other animals, if staying in a crate overnight much past 6 months would make him frustrated rather than feel insulated. The only reason he is in a crate now is to stop him from peeing in the house. I also want him to be protective at night and a crated animal cannot really patrol the house. I have never crate trained before and my chow would have hated not being in a place where she could hear danger at night and react to it.

 

I wanted to know if making him walk behind me on leash would make him feel more frustrated than feel protected. He watches the children on walks and likes to be able to see them and know where they are, this doesn't sound like a dog that is upset by "being in charge" like the manuals say.

 

I find my instincts about him to go against typical training for say a... golden.

I don't **really** know if this is a "pack" type dog, I know he wants to be pack leader, but if I don't allow him to be who he is, will I ruin him? and what are the guidelines.

 

I am establishing pack leader currently by making him stay in a "place" near me, making him wait for my command to eat, making him wait for me to go through doors/stairs first. I have dealt with his his food aggression until he lets me and the children touch him and his bowl without growling.

He knows sit. stay, wait, leave it, and come. (come is a little weak)

 

I have been doing a lot of research on the breed to better understand/train him.

He is a gentle, yet stubborn soul and I don't want to train him against his natural leanings.

 

 

In my research I ran across a blog that gave more info about the breed than the usual propaganda. I emailed her some of these questions and she basically told me since I used a non approved breeder, I am evil and not worth her time.

:grouphug:

 

Juniper also has an Akbash.

 

From what I know of them, they really want to be outside protecting their flock. They are one of my most favorite dogs ever, but I don't have the territory for them. :glare:

[Critterfixer]

Regardless of the breed in question: If this dog is biting the children that is a serious behavior issue. Not only are the kids in danger, you've got liability issues too should a child be injured by this dog (or any person for that matter). This is a big deal whether the dog is a Chihuahua or a Great Dane, although the injuries tend to be more catastrophic with the larger breed. (Even smaller breed dogs can do some serious injuries--ask anyone who's had a tendon injury in the hand or a bite in the joints of the fingers!)

 

I would have you contact your local veterinary school immediately and ask for a behavior consultation or a referral to a behavior specialist. At the least get their advice on training this dog.

[sparrow]

That really stinks that the breed rescue is unwilling to give some advice. You would think they'd like to help owners keep a dog out of rescue, at least!

 

I had not heard much about this breed. They are beautiful dogs! I was looking at the breed info here: http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/a/akbashdog.htm. It certainly sounds like they need specialized training and a job to do. I hope someone can help you out :grouphug:.

[Lara in Colo]

I didn't mean to mislead anyone. He isn't biting the children, he is puppy playing and nipping, he is just---big and the one child he is most aggressive with is my most submissive child. This situation doesn't worry me in the least, this will stop as soon as pack order is established and I am working on it. The problem is with the child, not the dog: she needs to be more assertive instead of cowering when he starts to play too hard-- a few good no's and he stops with the other children. He is only 4 months old, this is to be expected and is being dealt with.

[Beth in OH]

As someone who has been fostering large breeds for several years, I want to say THANK YOU for your wisdom to seek out help so your dog will be manageable! My current foster is 80 lbs., and we believe she is a malamute mix. Malamutes possess many of the breed characteristics that I just read for the Akbash, and they are also large and strong---made to work hard pulling heavy loads.

 

You are absolutely correct that these large, independent, smart breeds need some extra handling. I fully believe that my foster wound up as a stray, because her owners never had her behavior under control, and she became very scary.

 

I had to work with a behaviorist who has experience with aggression modification. The strategies will be the same---you will be teaching your dog that he is not to exercise his judgment while you are around. You are the boss. Don't worry that you are working against his natural tendencies. If you want him to be around people, you will need to teach him to control those tendencies. He won't lose his fundamental instincts. ;) He'll be a much happier dog, because he is pleasing you.

 

Look for a behaviorist. You are correct that typical positive reinforcement methods are enough for most breeds, but these dogs need something more.

[SonshineLearner]

Well, can you do recall training with a long lead and say... a pinch collar? I did recall training with my dog fully grown. I would just "quickly tug" the collar to let him know he was getting to the end of the lead as I called him back. Then I'd have him come back to me and do a sit stay in front of me when he came back.

I also had my son stand across the "field" from me to call and have him "sit/stay" before I'd call him back to me. Small treats work for this, too :)

Also, you can have her feed the dog, with a sit/stay before they eat. I'm not sure how long the "stay" should be for a pup. I did this with my dog sometimes.

Even though my dog was grown, the training I did & sometimes refresh has worked well. If I was more consistent, he would be even better... But it's amazing how long it's held even with me NOT being consistent :)

[Mothersweets]

Maybe you've already looked at this? http://akbashclub.com/adaanilif.htm

[Critterfixer]

He isn't biting the children, he is puppy playing and nipping, he is just---big and the one child he is most aggressive with is my most submissive child. This situation doesn't worry me in the least, this will stop as soon as pack order is established and I am working on it. The problem is with the child, not the dog: she needs to be more assertive instead of cowering when he starts to play too hard-- a few good no's and he stops with the other children. He is only 4 months old, this is to be expected and is being dealt with.

 

The word you originally used was bite. He would bite the children when they were playing. Play bites hurt. And with a big dog, even a play bite can be a big deal, as you recognize.

 

As far as the child goes, I can tell you how it feels to be dragged around by a dog at age 7. Our neighbor's dog, an exuberant, aggressive animal grabbed me on my side of the fence, when I was daydreaming and tried to yank me through the fence by my hair. Happily for me, his owner and my mother were able to get me away from him. I still love dogs (I've got four) and I've dealt with a number of dogs that would like to eat me in the veterinary setting; but I take aggression with children IN ANY CONTEXT very seriously because of my own experience.

When a dog drags you around the yard, at that age, asserting yourself is the last thing you feel capable of doing. Far more likely you will not want to go near that dog again. It's also not easy, as a child, to accept that the big dog was only playing with you when he has scared you or hurt you.

 

I continue to say you need to talk to a behaviorist about this. The dog is four months of age. So he hasn't been bulling the kids around very long. This is a great time to get a handle on his behavior.

[vettechmomof2]

What rescue was this for btw? There are a few different ones and I can find out what happended for you maybe.

I also sent you a pm about this.

[Denisemomof4]

I didn't mean to mislead anyone. He isn't biting the children, he is puppy playing and nipping, he is just---big and the one child he is most aggressive with is my most submissive child. This situation doesn't worry me in the least, this will stop as soon as pack order is established and I am working on it. The problem is with the child, not the dog: she needs to be more assertive instead of cowering when he starts to play too hard-- a few good no's and he stops with the other children. He is only 4 months old, this is to be expected and is being dealt with.

 

My blackmouth cur was like that with dd12. She was too soft with him. She finally got fed up and started to assert her order i. The pack. He is almost nine months old now and is MUCH better with her.

 

Working dogs are so much more work. They are certainly not for someone who isn't willing to put effort into them. I can see the rewards are paying off now that Cooper is four mnths old. BOY was he OBNOXIOUS at four months.... And ifor a few m ths!

[Bluegoat]

If you love your breed and want the best for it, do not be rude and condescending to the person who is really trying to get help with their new puppy on how to best train him.

 

I was told that since I **should ** have used a breeder but did not, (that the breeder would help me with *everything* from proper training to temperment matching) this person could not answer my questions. I am apparently one of the evil people that gets dogs and leaves them in shelters for them to deal with.

 

I have never given a dog to a shelter, I have been through puppy school 3 times. I have gotten my pets from shelters, breeders and backyard owners.

The worst experiences have been from shelters. My questions to this person, who claims to be knowlegeble of the breed, were breed specific with regards to training.

I asked her to help me understand how this breed differs from traditional dog psychology and how to adjust my training of him from the mainstream training techniques.

 

"I do not have time as I have to deal with the dogs in rescue, from people such as yourself that obtained them from ranches and backyard breeders that do not help you. As you know people are told by the humane society it is their responsibility to obtain dogs from reputable breeders that will help them, not dump it on rescue..."

 

Seriously???? You are passionate about the breed, but how does NOT helping me understand the breed, help anyone???? The dog is born, I own it, I need advice. Perhaps if I give it to a shelter, then get it out, I can get her advice??

 

This person was rude and did not make me want to EVER deal with a rescue group. Oh btw-- the only help I have ever gotten from a shelter or a breeder is help getting my check cashed.

 

rant over

 

Lara

 

 

That would really annoy me. There are plenty of immoral and irresponsible professional breeders who I would not buy a dog from under and circumstances. And "backyard breeders" with really nice dogs who take good care of them.

[Hen]

I don't have this breed, so no words of wisdom there...but we did teach our very over-smart labradoodle (3/4th standard poodle) to come back. She is very smart, and you can actually watch her think about whether or not it is worth it to break the rule, like taking off out of our yard. Dh bought some hot dogs and cut them up into little pieces and started training and rewarding her for the "come" command. it was like instant magic for him. At first, she only came instantly and perfectly for him (hot dogs are long gone) but it has leaked down to all of us now and she "comes" for everyone now.

 

It is frustrating watching such an intelligent dog flout the rules, you can totally see the wheels turning in her head.

 

good luck!

[Dicentra]

I'm definitely NOT an expert so take all of this with that in mind. ;) We own two Pyr/Akbash crosses (1/8 Akbash and 7/8 Pyr). They will turn 1 on July 30 - the female is a lean 85 lbs and the male is a lean 120 lbs - he's going to be HUGE. They are exclusively outdoor dogs and we're on 160 acres out in the middle of nowhere. We don't have any livestock for them to guard (except our outdoor cats - none of whom take kindly to being guarded :D). When we first brought them home last October, I wanted to make sure that they understood that everyone (including the cats) was above them in the pack. I would routinely give them their food, a toy, or a treat, walk away for 30 seconds, walk back and take it away from them. If they showed ANY reaction other than simply waiting for me to give it back (lunging, growling, etc.) I would growl at them. Yup - growl. :001_smile: Deep and low in my throat. I'd also flip them onto their backs and hold them there, while growling, until they were passive. I know, I know - it sounds mean and like overkill but when I say flip I don't mean pick them up and slam them down - just more like tipping them over (they were only 10 weeks old so pretty low to the ground) and quickly rolling them on to their backs. It only took once with each of them. I still use growling as an indicator that I am displeased with what they're doing and they need to stop NOW - it seems to work like a charm. I still, every now and again, will give them a pig ear (which they love) and then take it back (and then give it right back when they show no reaction). I also have my daughter do it with me there to supervise. She's 12 but only 80 lbs. soaking wet and they could easily over power her if they chose to but because I have been doing this from the time they were tiny, they don't react. I also let the cats eat from the dog dishes if they choose (just a nibble - kitties have their own food since dog food is not good for kitties) and the dogs have to either share or sit and watch - they are NOT allowed to chase the kitties away or protect their food from them. From what I understand, in the dog brain, he who eats first is higher in the pack.

 

Even having done all of this, they are still very good guard dogs - I don't think I've made "sissies" out of them. :D They bark at anything that comes into our yard uninvited but are friendly and gentle as lambs if we're outside and tell them that whomever has just arrived is OK. We haven't hit prime bear season quite yet (where the bears are in our yard and only metres from the house) but we'll see how much more aggressive they'll need to get beyond barking.

 

The Pyr/Akbash breeds will never be exceptionally good at "come", from what I've read. They were bred to be independent - to take the flocks up into the mountains without a human shepherd and watch them and make decisions on their own. We have been working (and still are!) with Jack and Addy since we got them and they will come most of the time. If they think that something is a potential threat, however, and needs to be checked out, we can call and they'll actually turn to look at us as if to say, "I hear ya - I just have to check this out first." :D They'll check it out and then come back. I was told by a Pyr breeder that if you're looking for an obedience champ, this is NOT the breed you're looking for. :D

[Dicentra]

Just for fun - these are the hooligans in question. :D

[Lara in Colo]

I'm definitely NOT an expert so take all of this with that in mind. ;) We own two Pyr/Akbash crosses (1/8 Akbash and 7/8 Pyr). They will turn 1 on July 30 - the female is a lean 85 lbs and the male is a lean 120 lbs - he's going to be HUGE. They are exclusively outdoor dogs and we're on 160 acres out in the middle of nowhere. We don't have any livestock for them to guard (except our outdoor cats - none of whom take kindly to being guarded :D). When we first brought them home last October, I wanted to make sure that they understood that everyone (including the cats) was above them in the pack. I would routinely give them their food, a toy, or a treat, walk away for 30 seconds, walk back and take it away from them. If they showed ANY reaction other than simply waiting for me to give it back (lunging, growling, etc.) I would growl at them. Yup - growl. :001_smile: Deep and low in my throat. I'd also flip them onto their backs and hold them there, while growling, until they were passive. I know, I know - it sounds mean and like overkill but when I say flip I don't mean pick them up and slam them down - just more like tipping them over (they were only 10 weeks old so pretty low to the ground) and quickly rolling them on to their backs. It only took once with each of them. I still use growling as an indicator that I am displeased with what they're doing and they need to stop NOW - it seems to work like a charm. I still, every now and again, will give them a pig ear (which they love) and then take it back (and then give it right back when they show no reaction). I also have my daughter do it with me there to supervise. She's 12 but only 80 lbs. soaking wet and they could easily over power her if they chose to but because I have been doing this from the time they were tiny, they don't react. I also let the cats eat from the dog dishes if they choose (just a nibble - kitties have their own food since dog food is not good for kitties) and the dogs have to either share or sit and watch - they are NOT allowed to chase the kitties away or protect their food from them. From what I understand, in the dog brain, he who eats first is higher in the pack.

 

Even having done all of this, they are still very good guard dogs - I don't think I've made "sissies" out of them. :D They bark at anything that comes into our yard uninvited but are friendly and gentle as lambs if we're outside and tell them that whomever has just arrived is OK. We haven't hit prime bear season quite yet (where the bears are in our yard and only metres from the house) but we'll see how much more aggressive they'll need to get beyond barking.

 

The Pyr/Akbash breeds will never be exceptionally good at "come", from what I've read. They were bred to be independent - to take the flocks up into the mountains without a human shepherd and watch them and make decisions on their own. We have been working (and still are!) with Jack and Addy since we got them and they will come most of the time. If they think that something is a potential threat, however, and needs to be checked out, we can call and they'll actually turn to look at us as if to say, "I hear ya - I just have to check this out first." :D They'll check it out and then come back. I was told by a Pyr breeder that if you're looking for an obedience champ, this is NOT the breed you're looking for. :D

 

 

 

This has been helpful since I have been some submission training that hasn't worked. I was doing the "hold him down until he relaxes" method--- he falls asleep, but is still trying to dominate LOL.

I have done the food aggression thing and he doesn't growl at us at all, he does sort of eat faster though, so we should do this more...

 

Thank you for the suggestions.

 

Lara

[Dicentra]

You're welcome. :001_smile: Like I say, I'm no expert - this is just what we've done - so hopefully you'll get some advice from some of the pros on the board.

 

When you hold him down, is it on his back? That's their ultimate submissive posture, I think, so I guess by putting them on their back and growling, it's like a double dose of "I'm alpha". :D

 

I think you also mentioned them walking in front of you in your OP - mine also do this. They want to check things out before we get there, I guess. I've never worked on "heel" with them - we normally walk with them on our property off leash and they tend to roam in about a 30 ft circle around us. If we let them get outside that 30 ft circle, they are much more difficult to call back so when they start to approach the limit, we make sure we get their attention and call them back to us and then praise them like crazy. They will walk directly in front of us, turn sideways, and stop if they don't want us to go ahead for any reason. They've only done it a few times and so I stop and let them check out whatever has them concerned and then we continue on. I also do walk with them on leash sometimes just so they know how to do it. I use heavy duty nylon leashes (not the retractable kind) and they are kept very short. They aren't the best leash walkers (they still want to be ahead and roaming so they can check things out) but after a few minutes they mostly stop pulling and walk sort-of at my side. :001_smile: