Please comment on this statement made to me yesterday...

[shanvan]

Another homeschool mom and I were talking at the pool. I originally intended for Ds to take a Biology lab class with a local mom this fall. The class is meeting very close to my home and they are using Apologia. However, this weekend after looking at both Apologia and BJU, Ds finally decided to use BJU with DiVE. So, now I think we are opting out of the class since the labs won't match.

 

My friend (who has no high school age Dc) said "Well, he really needs to have an outside lab at high school age." Why? What am I missing? He's going to do labs, just not with the class.

 

Now here's the story about the class:

 

Over the course of the summer I have become increasingly uneasy about the class anyway. It has taken 3 months for the teacher to send any type of clear e mail explaining how she is going to handle the class. Most of the time she does not answer my questions. When she does, I often can't make heads or tails of her answers. She emails with her own questions and repeatedly asks the same questions that I already answered. I volunteered our microscope several times and she has never said if she is going to use it or not and keeps sending out the email asking if anyone has a microscope :confused:.

 

A couple weeks ago an email went out asking if we want the kids to be lab partners and if we want to buy the lab supplies as a group. In the same email she asked if anyone has already bought them. But, we haven't even received a list of what labs she is going to cover (she said it would be different from Apologia list), so how can we buy supplies? I saw her in person and volunteered to organize a group buy for labs. She said she has it covered and the other mom who is helping her will take care of it, but her husband is sick and in the hospital so that's why she's been slow with getting around to it. When I got home Dh asked me, "how sick is he? Is she going to be able to commit to helping with a class if her husband is really sick?" Hummm, good question. Still no email about ordering lab supplies this week.

 

I have seen the email addresses of the other families registering and recognize them from years ago when we participated in co-ops. They are not people who are serious about education. I remember many of their Dc as discipline issues and some of the girls I've seen at 4H remind me of groupies at rock concerts when it comes to activities involving boys. I know they had to be asked not to come back to some sporting events b/c of their behavior.

 

I don't know the mom/teacher well, so I asked another friend who knows her better through their kids shared activities. She told me this mom/teacher is not home much and puts a big emphasis on sports over academics. My friends comment was that the class wouldn't necessarily be bad, but that her feeling is that it would be a lets-get-it done approach without much attention to detail. That isn't the approach I'm looking for.

 

Back to my friend's comment at the pool....it has been bothering me. So, do you think she's right and Ds needs an outside lab? I don't think I can line up labs very well without having to buy Apologia as well. I don't want to create unnecessary work for myself, especially if the class is poorly run.

 

Last question......would you still consider this lab class given the poor organization, confusion, families involved, and work it would be to line up labs?

[elegantlion]

Well, I always take the advice of people who don't have children in my situation :tongue_smilie:, so as we're just heading into high school as well, I'm sure I'm an expert:lol:. (sorry first cup of coffee)

 

I see two issues: the class and her comments

 

 

The class: No way in the deep dark places of this earth would I join that class. Those are huge red flags to me already. Do you want your child dealing with that level of disorganization? I'd bow out of it all.

 

The comments: If you read the other thread lamenting on the "lameness" of high school science labs, you'll see the real experts chiming in. IMO, you don't NEED outside labs in high school. If you're just going to watch some videos, fill in some worksheets and call those labs, or would prefer not to deal with supplies and experiments, then seek some outside help.

 

There is some good advice on dealing with experiments vs. activities in the other thread. I do hope to create good lab habits in high school, but I don't foresee the need of an outside class to do so.

[mom31257]

I don't think the statement about "having to have outside labs" is true. Many homeschoolers have done labs on their own and been fine. My daughter is nervous about doing the dissections, so I felt that she would tolerate it more in a group than doing it here with just me. So I sought out friends who might want labs, and I'm going to be leading a co-op meeting every other week this year starting in late August.

 

It doesn't sound to me like this person is organized enough to do it, IMHO. I have students who are using Apologia and a couple that are doing something else but want the experience of the labs in a group. I am going to be purchasing all the labs supplies and have the parents pay me a semester fee. I've already scheduled the entire year, including a schedule for Apologia for those that are using it. Next week, I'll have the final count on the number of students and will be able to let the parents know the exact fee and will place my order.

[katilac]

No, I don't see why she would need an outside lab. We are doing bio for 9th this year, and we are doing home labs.

 

The only reasons I see to be concerned about home labs are:

 

1) not actually doing them :)

 

2) if there are important labs you can't really do at home, due to equipment and such

 

2) not actually doing them :)

 

The second one is not much of a concern for biology, imo, especially with the plethora of quality virtual labs available. It might be for a different science.

 

As for #1, some people do need the impetus of a scheduled class, b/c they tend to delay or avoid difficult, messy things like science labs. You just need to know whether this is true about yourself.

 

My plan is to schedule a wet lab day once a month, rather than dealing with the mess and such on a weekly or unscheduled basis. Of course, some things may have to be done as we go along, but I like having the bulk of it segregated.

[8filltheheart]

Another homeschool mom and I were talking at the pool. I originally intended for Ds to take a Biology lab class with a local mom this fall. The class is meeting very close to my home and they are using Apologia. However, this weekend after looking at both Apologia and BJU, Ds finally decided to use BJU with DiVE. So, now I think we are opting out of the class since the labs won't match.

 

My friend (who has no high school age Dc) said "Well, he really needs to have an outside lab at high school age." Why? What am I missing? He's going to do labs, just not with the class.

 

Now here's the story about the class:

 

Over the course of the summer I have become increasingly uneasy about the class anyway. It has taken 3 months for the teacher to send any type of clear e mail explaining how she is going to handle the class. Most of the time she does not answer my questions. When she does, I often can't make heads or tails of her answers. She emails with her own questions and repeatedly asks the same questions that I already answered. I volunteered our microscope several times and she has never said if she is going to use it or not and keeps sending out the email asking if anyone has a microscope :confused:.

 

A couple weeks ago an email went out asking if we want the kids to be lab partners and if we want to buy the lab supplies as a group. In the same email she asked if anyone has already bought them. But, we haven't even received a list of what labs she is going to cover (she said it would be different from Apologia list), so how can we buy supplies? I saw her in person and volunteered to organize a group buy for labs. She said she has it covered and the other mom who is helping her will take care of it, but her husband is sick and in the hospital so that's why she's been slow with getting around to it. When I got home Dh asked me, "how sick is he? Is she going to be able to commit to helping with a class if her husband is really sick?" Hummm, good question. Still no email about ordering lab supplies this week.

 

I have seen the email addresses of the other families registering and recognize them from years ago when we participated in co-ops. They are not people who are serious about education. I remember many of their Dc as discipline issues and some of the girls I've seen at 4H remind me of groupies at rock concerts when it comes to activities involving boys. I know they had to be asked not to come back to some sporting events b/c of their behavior.

 

I don't know the mom/teacher well, so I asked another friend who knows her better through their kids shared activities. She told me this mom/teacher is not home much and puts a big emphasis on sports over academics. My friends comment was that the class wouldn't necessarily be bad, but that her feeling is that it would be a lets-get-it done approach without much attention to detail. That isn't the approach I'm looking for.

 

Back to my friend's comment at the pool....it has been bothering me. So, do you think she's right and Ds needs an outside lab? I don't think I can line up labs very well without having to buy Apologia as well. I don't want to create unnecessary work for myself, especially if the class is poorly run.

 

Last question......would you still consider this lab class given the poor organization, confusion, families involved, and work it would be to line up labs?

 

I would run the other direction!!

 

First, in response to the friend at the pool......um, why in the world do they need an outside lab? That argument is right up there w/homeschoolers can't possibly provide an adequate education. :tongue_smilie: My kids sit at the kitchen table doing labs by themselves. ;)

 

Second, it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, looks like a duck :tongue_smilie: It sounds like the class is going to be like every co-op class I have seen. Drop off schooling w/no accountability and mediocre quality and almost all the participants will believe that it is a wonderful academic course. (I have only met a very, very, very small handful of homeschoolers IRL that actually have high academic standards. I wouldn't want to trust the education of my children into the hands of anyone else unless I knew positively that they would be producing equal or better opportunities than what I could offer at home.)

 

What is the pt in homeschooling? :confused:

[klmama]

It sounds like it isn't a good fit for your family. I would skip it and do labs at home. The main focus is on microscope use and dissections; you can handle that. If chemistry labs seem like they would be hard to do at home, start looking for next year's lab instructor in January!

[jelbe5]

I would go with your plan to do Bio at home. The apparent disorganization of the class you have been considering, and the fact your DS has decided to go with a different program have really made the decision for you. :D

 

The comment about "needing" an outside lab experience is coming from someone who has not btdt yet and who is probably afraid of the whole lab idea.

 

Heck, when I was in school my lab partners stood by in horror while I cut up the fetal pig. They still earned a passing grade because they "observed" and filled out the diagram and lab report. :glare: With the computer age one can observe infinite labs, microscopic organisms, etc. online. Many schools, in an effort to be environmentally/animal rights friendly and to cheap out are doing this and calling it "lab".

Edited July 27, 2012 by jelbe5

[shanvan]

I would run the other direction!!

 

First, in response to the friend at the pool......um, why in the world do they need an outside lab? That argument is right up there w/homeschoolers can't possibly provide an adequate education. :tongue_smilie: My kids sit at the kitchen table doing labs by themselves. ;)

 

Second, it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, looks like a duck :tongue_smilie:

 

Thank you! This is what every fiber of my being is screaming at me whenever I read an email about the class. I just keep ignoring it in favor of the voice that tells me not to be so judgmental.:001_rolleyes:

It sounds like the class is going to be like every co-op class I have seen. Drop off schooling w/no accountability and mediocre quality and almost all the participants will believe that it is a wonderful academic course. (I have only met a very, very, very small handful of homeschoolers IRL that actually have high academic standards. I wouldn't want to trust the education of my children into the hands of anyone else unless I knew positively that they would be producing equal or better opportunities than what I could offer at home.)

 

What is the pt in homeschooling? :confused:

 

Ah, a kindred spirit! Same experience here with co-ops, and even some expensive for pay classes. I believe I have come to my senses.

 

As a matter of fact, this mom is running the labs herself b/c the co-op fees were raised and are too high for her now. I think she is bringing a lot of families from the co-op with her.

 

Now I will just need to plug my ears and say "la,la,la,la, I can't hear you!" for the entire year as I am repeatedly told what a wonderful opportunity we missed.

[Brenda in MA]

Back to my friend's comment at the pool....it has been bothering me. So, do you think she's right and Ds needs an outside lab? I don't think I can line up labs very well without having to buy Apologia as well. I don't want to create unnecessary work for myself, especially if the class is poorly run.

 

Last question......would you still consider this lab class given the poor organization, confusion, families involved, and work it would be to line up labs?

 

Shannon,

 

No, I would not consider participating in a class where the teacher is that unorganized. It sounds like it would be a real time-sink for you and your son and a lot of frustration that you don't need.

 

If you're going to use BJU, have you looked at Home Science Tools? They have a kit on their website that says it goes with BJU Biology. Also, if you want a pre-made lab kit for biology, you might look into the kits at labpaq.com.

 

Personally, I've never heard of a requirement for "outside" labs. My older son took Bio, Chem, and Physics (including the labs at home). He went to the CC in 12th grade and took their Chem class + lab. That was good enough for the 8 colleges he got into. When I wrote up his transcript/course descriptions, I made it clear that he did labs at home. Under each course, I said something like "coursework included 25 labs". I also listed the major lab equipment (like microscope, prepared slides, dissection specimens, etc.) with the course description so they had some inkling of what he did.

 

The more I read about what kind of high school science labs are done at the typical public school, I think you can almost always do a better job at home as long as you actually do the lab work and you buy the chemicals/equipment required. There are several companies now that sell pre-assembled science kits for home use so it's relatively easy to do labs at home.

 

Another advantage you have with doing the labs at home is that you aren't limited by a lab period of a specific length of time. If you are in the middle of an experiment and you want to add another test specimen or look at something interesting with your microscope that's not in the lab manual, you can do that.

 

HTH,

Brenda

[shanvan]

Shannon,

 

No, I would not consider participating in a class where the teacher is that unorganized. It sounds like it would be a real time-sink for you and your son and a lot of frustration that you don't need.

 

If you're going to use BJU, have you looked at Home Science Tools? They have a kit on their website that says it goes with BJU Biology. Also, if you want a pre-made lab kit for biology, you might look into the kits at labpaq.com.

 

Personally, I've never heard of a requirement for "outside" labs. My older son took Bio, Chem, and Physics (including the labs at home). He went to the CC in 12th grade and took their Chem class + lab. That was good enough for the 8 colleges he got into. When I wrote up his transcript/course descriptions, I made it clear that he did labs at home. Under each course, I said something like "coursework included 25 labs". I also listed the major lab equipment (like microscope, prepared slides, dissection specimens, etc.) with the course description so they had some inkling of what he did.

 

The more I read about what kind of high school science labs are done at the typical public school, I think you can almost always do a better job at home as long as you actually do the lab work and you buy the chemicals/equipment required. There are several companies now that sell pre-assembled science kits for home use so it's relatively easy to do labs at home.

 

Another advantage you have with doing the labs at home is that you aren't limited by a lab period of a specific length of time. If you are in the middle of an experiment and you want to add another test specimen or look at something interesting with your microscope that's not in the lab manual, you can do that.

 

HTH,

Brenda

 

Thanks, Brenda. I think we are going to buy the kit Home Science Tools sells for DIVE Biology, unless I decide to buy just a few labs at a time. I'm also trying to coordinate some of the labs (probably dissection) with Dd's (5th grade) Elemental Biology. They will probably be a little over her head, but I can't resist taking advantage of the opportunity to coordinate. Yet another reason to do the labs at home.

 

To respond to a couple of posts...yes, Ds is definitely going to do labs, though some that may be too expensive he will watch on the DIVE disc.

 

[shanvan]

Well, I always take the advice of people who don't have children in my situation :tongue_smilie:, so as we're just heading into high school as well, I'm sure I'm an expert:lol:. (sorry first cup of coffee)

 

I see two issues: the class and her comments

 

 

The class: No way in the deep dark places of this earth would I join that class. Those are huge red flags to me already. Do you want your child dealing with that level of disorganization? I'd bow out of it all.

 

The comments: If you read the other thread lamenting on the "lameness" of high school science labs, you'll see the real experts chiming in. IMO, you don't NEED outside labs in high school. If you're just going to watch some videos, fill in some worksheets and call those labs, or would prefer not to deal with supplies and experiments, then seek some outside help.

 

There is some good advice on dealing with experiments vs. activities in the other thread. I do hope to create good lab habits in high school, but I don't foresee the need of an outside class to do so.

 

Well, Paula, even if you haven't btdt, I value your opinion especially since I know you're in the midst of all this too. You've helped me sort out a few things in the past. And, yes, I think the disorganization would drive Ds nuts. Thanks for the thread. I missed that one and it is very helpful. I think high school planning is rotting my brain or something! I've never second guessed myself this much before. "No way in the deep dark places..." I so appreciate the strong wording. It's the kick in the butt I need to make me stand up straight and wake up from the dreams of wishy-washy land where I wander in the forest of what-if-I'm-wrong!

[WishboneDawn]

I think the bottom line is even if the other mom is completely right this class is NOT the answer.

[nykatie]

As a cautionary note, we joined a high school science class organized by a member of our co-op which was a total disaster -- half the kids dropped out by Christmas (and we should have!). It was a waste of money and cost her a year of science which she had to make up by taking community college courses (also expensive!) so she could complete each science in a semester rather than over a whole year. I would do it at home rather than waste your student's time, even if someone somewhere along the line questions her labs.

[Lizzie in Ma]

Last question......would you still consider this lab class given the poor organization, confusion, families involved, and work it would be to line up labs?

 

No way, no how, nuh uh.

We did labs at home with 2 other friends who are serious students once a week.

I would be insane if I wasted time, money and energy in a poorly run class with kids who don't care and or are discipline issues.

[PeterPan]

Wow Shan, you're normally the voice of sanity and reason. I'm glad you saw through that crazy situation and chose NOT to jump in on that chaos, mercy. That is SO not what you would have been happy with. And as for outside labs, that would totally depend on whether you're getting them *done*, whether you are getting the equipment, etc. etc. It's not one pat answer for all people, mercy. Sure it would be cool to have some more experienced science person or prof teach your kids the labs, but then they'd go to college and have another prof who had totally different expectations. Just do what you can and it will be good enough.

 

And yeah, I've been feeling that "how did this suddenly get so hard" thing too. I think it's partly in our minds, but it's also that what they're *able* to do is increasing and we're trying to step it up to match it.

[Teachin'Mine]

I can't imagine a regular biology lab being over the head of a 5th grader. I'd definitely have them do the labs together and give her the official title of lab assistant. ;)

 

That class sounds like it will be a disaster, and likely the other moms will be raving about it. :lol: Stay out of the forest!

[shanvan]

Wow Shan, you're normally the voice of sanity and reason. I'm glad you saw through that crazy situation and chose NOT to jump in on that chaos, mercy. That is SO not what you would have been happy with. And as for outside labs, that would totally depend on whether you're getting them *done*, whether you are getting the equipment, etc. etc. It's not one pat answer for all people, mercy. Sure it would be cool to have some more experienced science person or prof teach your kids the labs, but then they'd go to college and have another prof who had totally different expectations. Just do what you can and it will be good enough.

 

And yeah, I've been feeling that "how did this suddenly get so hard" thing too. I think it's partly in our minds, but it's also that what they're *able* to do is increasing and we're trying to step it up to match it.

 

Thanks, Elizabeth. My Dh would get a good laugh at reading that I am the voice of sanity and reason! (I will not let him see this thread). Glad to know I'm not alone in my urge to panic. My elderly uncle has been hearing my second guessing all summer and is getting disgusted with me. He keeps giving me pep talks along the lines of "You are perfectly capable of handling this. Why would you even question it?" Guess I should listen to him!:D

Edited July 27, 2012 by shanvan

[MamaT]

I would definitely skip the class and do it at home. A teacher/mom who is that disorganized would drive me bonkers.

 

My three sons who have graduated did all of their high school labs at home, and they did just fine. My 9th grade dd had an outside Biology class last year. I wasn't happy with it at all, and she will be doing Chemistry, with labs, at home this year.

[G5052]

I've been burned on some outside classes, and I'm wary. To me it isn't just about the money and time, my kid's educational experience is not worth delegating to someone who is going do a poor job of it. Period. I'm especially picky about high school classes because the stakes are a lot higher than earlier on. We're involved in other areas that give us lots of socialization and group experiences, but perfectly good science labs can be done at home. I also like the flexibility of scheduling it myself.

 

A good local experience will involve an experienced teacher with good references and students who mostly take the class seriously. I don't invest the time and money otherwise.

 

We're doing DIVE Biology as well, but I'm not going to stress about the labs. Some we'll just watch or use online sources. I have time blocked out in a few weeks to make the final decisions that way. The only hands-on dissection we'll do will be the fetal pig. And mine will be responsible for organizing and working out some of them on his own. In high school that's a reasonable expectation IMHO.

 

For chemistry I do have several excellent local options, so we may do that, especially if my younger one can get a class in the same time slot or if the commute is minimal. Learning some chemistry lab technique is beneficial IMHO, and that is an area where lab is a bit more important. And I hated chemistry lab in high school and the year I had to take in college. Truly. Washing the glasswear and all of the measuring just wasn't my thing. I loved biology and physics lab, but not chemistry.

Edited July 27, 2012 by GVA

[shanvan]

I've been burned on some outside classes, and I'm wary. To me it isn't just about the money and time, my kid's educational experience is not worth delegating to someone who is going do a poor job of it. Period. I'm especially picky about high school classes because the stakes are a lot higher than earlier on. We're involved in other areas that give us lots of socialization and group experiences, but perfectly good science labs can be done at home. I also like the flexibility of scheduling it myself.

 

All this applies to us too. I was thinking I didn't know if I wanted more time out of the house and a set day/time. Ds has some hefty responsibilities for 4H involving organizing and event planning and a possible therapuetic riding class he will be planning, advertising, and assisting. I have no idea when he might need to rearrange his schedule to meet with some of the professionals involved in these activities. And yes, we get plenty of socialization and group experiences through 4H and several other activities. Besides, that's not the purpose of the Biology labs---at least, it shouldn't be.

 

A good local experience will involve an experienced teacher with good references and students who mostly take the class seriously. I don't invest the time and money otherwise.

 

We're doing DIVE Biology as well, but I'm not going to stress about the labs. Some we'll just watch or use online sources. I have time blocked out in a few weeks to make the final decisions that way. The only hands-on dissection we'll do will be the fetal pig. And mine will be responsible for organizing and working out some of them on his own. In high school that's a reasonable expectation IMHO.

 

For chemistry I do have several excellent local options, so we may do that, especially if my younger one can get a class in the same time slot or if the commute is minimal. Learning some chemistry lab technique is beneficial IMHO, and that is an area where lab is a bit more important. And I hated chemistry lab in high school and the year I had to take in college. Truly. Washing the glasswear and all of the measuring just wasn't my thing. I loved biology and physics lab, but not chemistry.

 

I *think* I have a lead on a good teacher for chemistry labs if I decide on a class, but she is $$$. Like you, I have been burned with classes in the past and certainly now that we are talking about high school I can't afford to mess around.

 

I'll be mapping out DIVE Biology within the next 2 weeks and deciding which labs to include in or schedule, so it sounds like we have the same approach. I spoke to them earlier this week and they told me doing every one of their labs just isn't something most people can afford, so we'll definitely be picking and choosing.

[angela in ohio]

A *good* lab at home is better than a poor lab outside the home.

 

I've never seen anything locally but poor lab classes, so home labs were our only option. I ordered the proper equipment and taught the proper skills, so I'm not concerned about outside labs. So many of hte homeschool lab classes seem watered down and just an excuse for parents to check off the "did a lab" box while their dc do elementary level "supplies you find around the house" labs.

 

We did DIVE Biology. It was no problem to do it at home. The biggest expense was a good miscroscope, but the local Apologia co-ops require your own anyway (they have one for the class to share, from what I hear.)

[jibaker103]

I would run, run, and run some more!!!! There are so many options available for getting science with lab done at home that I would never spend the money a lot of these classes want. However, you do have to physically do labs. You cannot just watch a video and call it done.

 

What we have used so far:

* Honors Biology from ck12.org with dissection kits from Home Science Tools and microscope and slides from Amazon.

 

* Anatomy & Physiology self designed based off of some information from the Guest Hollow website with dissections and experiments from Home Science Tools.

 

* Integrated Chemistry & Physics using PH Physical Science Concepts in Action and DIVE CD. I am in the process of figuring out the actual labs we will complete.

 

Plans for the future will include either Conceptual Physics or Forensic Science.

 

From year to year we are collecting a set of nice equipment and tools that are durable and will last through all of high school and hopefully with the next child as well.

 

If done right labs can be completed without breaking the bank, maximum fun, and a great deal of learning. My children have learned to predict/hypothesize, be inquisitive, think logically, conduct labs, write lab reports, to observe, and how to use the scientific method.

 

All of this from a non-science teacher (I did not enjoy science at all in high school or college)!

[Janice in NJ]

So DD is in her A&P lab at the college. The prof hands out the sheep's hearts. DD mutters under her breath, "Wow, this thing is a lot smaller than the one we have at home." The other students at the table said, "What?"

 

She had to explain that her younger brother was doing bio at home. She said that overall, our equipment was in much better shape than the college's. She is considering taking in her own dissection tools for A&P II. We have nice equipment.

 

Shrug off your friend's comments; you can't help te ignorant.

 

Have great weekend.

Janice

[TranquilMind]

elegantlion: Well, I always take the advice of people who don't have children in my situation :tongue_smilie:

 

Yes, I especially enjoy the advice of people who have maybe one 9 month old giving me advice on what my teens should be doing. Have you ever noticed that books written by "experts" often are written by people with one young kid. I was an expert then too.

 

 

 

The class: No way in the deep dark places of this earth would I join that class. Those are huge red flags to me already. Do you want your child dealing with that level of disorganization? I'd bow out of it all.

 

 

Agree. I have a lot of difficulty dealing with disorganized people.

 

There is some good advice on dealing with experiments vs. activities in the other thread. I do hope to create good lab habits in high school, but I don't foresee the need of an outside class to do so.

 

I personally just farm science out, but if you know what you are doing, go for it!

[Tullia]

We had access to good labs taught nearby, but ds' schedule never matched the yearly offerings. So, we did bio, chem, and physics labs at home. I would not bother with an outside lab that wasn't well run. High school years are busy; my advice is to stay away from anything that wastes valuable time.

 

What we did in our home labs that was helpful preparation for college labs was stress a regular schedule, keep good lab notebooks, analyze failed experiments, and then re-do them. Most of the time the second try was successful.

 

I was really stressed about ds' first lab in college, but he did very well. He received A's in every lab, and got excellent feedback from the instructors. He worked with one other person in his chem labs and had no trouble. He was selected team leader in both his physics labs which typically had 4-6 people working together. He'd actually done more chem labs than most of his classmates who'd gone to ps. The schools either didn't have time to do all the labs or there were shortages of chemicals or safety equipment.

 

I was very involved in bio and chem, but ds took the lead on physics. That final year I checked his lab notebook against the rubric to assign a grade and supplied an extra pair of hands when needed. We always discussed the labs--we talked about measurement issues or how equipment limitations affected what we were able to do and things like that.

 

HTH,

Martha

[shanvan]

So DD is in her A&P lab at the college. The prof hands out the sheep's hearts. DD mutters under her breath, "Wow, this thing is a lot smaller than the one we have at home." The other students at the table said, "What?"

 

She had to explain that her younger brother was doing bio at home. She said that overall, our equipment was in much better shape than the college's. She is considering taking in her own dissection tools for A&P II. We have nice equipment.

 

Shrug off your friend's comments; you can't help te ignorant.

 

Have great weekend.

Janice

 

Yes, very cute story. I definitely need to practice my shrugging. I did officially remove Ds from the class today. Thank God for the support here in my momentary lapse of insanity and second guessing. Hope my Ds will have some good stories like this. Thanks for sharing.

 

ETA: I fully expect an email asking if they can use the microscope I offered, even though I never heard a word about it before.:)

[Kim in SouthGa]

My first thought is run as far and fast as you can away from that class! :D Too many red flags.

I know lots of people who do the labs at home and lots that do them in coop settings. I'm sure you will be fine. :)

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Sebastian (a lady)]

In reverse order, unless I felt completely unable to do labs on my own, there are too many red flags listed for me to continue working with the lab group you've mentioned.

 

Depending on what your kid's college hopes are, it might or might not be worth trying to do an outside lab. Just as an example, my kids are interested in applying for service academies and ROTC, which have a heavy emphasis on science. My plan is to make sure that they get some kind of outside class for science that can demonstrate that they have familiarity with standard lab experiences. That might be a summer program or a community college course. It might be a coop or support group if I think the standards of equipment and challenge are there.

 

Lacking that, I'm planning for labs that show scientific proceedures and thinking (rather than just demonstrations).

 

It sounds like the group you're describing would not provide a consitently challenging or insightful lab experience AND would add far more stress than you need in your life. I would definitely pass. If there are a couple students that you think would be quality lab partners, then run the lab at your home with that smaller group.

[amyk]

Before my son did Dive Biology at home last year, I was skeptical about whether or not you could do labs at home too. My husband and I marvel at the thoroughness of his experience as compared to our high school lab experiences. He had the teacher demonstrating right in front of him through video and the ability to pause/rewind as many times as necessary. This was particularly helpful with dissections. Dive Science is so well organized with quizzes and tests and a built-in grading and scoring system we were so pleased. The other thing that made it a success was a quality (expensive) microscope and of course the home science lab kit which you buy separately.

[shanvan]

Before my son did Dive Biology at home last year, I was skeptical about whether or not you could do labs at home too. My husband and I marvel at the thoroughness of his experience as compared to our high school lab experiences. He had the teacher demonstrating right in front of him through video and the ability to pause/rewind as many times as necessary. This was particularly helpful with dissections. Dive Science is so well organized with quizzes and tests and a built-in grading and scoring system we were so pleased. The other thing that made it a success was a quality (expensive) microscope and of course the home science lab kit which you buy separately.

 

Thanks, Amy, for the encouragement. I'm surprised this thread is still going. My DIVE disc arrived late this week and I'll be sitting down with it tonight. We have a microscope that I *thought* was expensive when I bought it, but I am not sure if it is adequate. I'll have to check. True confession: I find microscopes confusing.

[amyk]

I don't know anything either, my husband chose the microscope, but we also bought a camera that projects the image onto the computer screen so everyone can look together rather than taking turns. You can also record using the camera, so he was able to record cytoplasmic streaming when he saw it the first time--it took many tries, but each time he found something more than the time before.

[PeterPan]

I don't know anything either, my husband chose the microscope, but we also bought a camera that projects the image onto the computer screen so everyone can look together rather than taking turns. You can also record using the camera, so he was able to record cytoplasmic streaming when he saw it the first time--it took many tries, but each time he found something more than the time before.

 

Link? :)

[Twigs]

… I find microscopes confusing.

 

You might find this article How to buy the Right Microscope An illustrated guide to the Microscope helpful.

You'll learn

 

 

The Major Components of a Student Microscope

 

• Important concerns about construction

   

   

   

• The three most common types of Objective Lenses

   

   

   

• The pros and cons of the three types of illumination

   

   

   

• Focus and gear ratio

   

   

   

• Lesser known components and why you might want them

   

   

   

• Things to consider before buying used equipment

   

   

   

By the way, I've never done business with this company, but the article is very informative.

 

Best Wishes

[shanvan]

You might find this article How to buy the Right Microscope An illustrated guide to the Microscope helpful.

 

By the way, I've never done business with this company, but the article is very informative.

 

Best Wishes

 

Thanks. Yes, I find that article very helpful....what is not helpful is how all the info just seems to pour right out of my mind!:glare: I have had that article bookmarked for a while now and have to refer to it every. single. time. I need to know something about a microscope. I would probably keep it all straight better if we used our microscope more often....which is what I intend for this year. :001_smile: I know how to use our microscope (mostly), just don't ask me anything about it or any terms or definitions related to it, or to compare it with other microscopes. And, I'm going to admit to having a bad attitude about learning all the ins and outs. That should be my goal for this year! :lol:

[dirty ethel rackham]

I don't necessary think outside labs are essential. They can be helpful if they are good labs. It doesn't sound like this class will meet your son's needs. I think you could do better on your own. If your son wants go go into the sciences, it might be a good idea to have some outside labs during his high school career, but I probably wouldn't do biology. Most of those labs can be done in a home environment. I do think having a good lab notebook is essential. My oldest lost out on getting lab credit for AP Physics B despite getting a 5 on the exam because Scholars' Online didn't provide us with any documentation and ds didn't keep a good lab notebook. He knows to do this now and my younger son benefiting from this mistake.

[shanvan]

I don't necessary think outside labs are essential. They can be helpful if they are good labs. It doesn't sound like this class will meet your son's needs. I think you could do better on your own. If your son wants go go into the sciences, it might be a good idea to have some outside labs during his high school career, but I probably wouldn't do biology. Most of those labs can be done in a home environment. I do think having a good lab notebook is essential. My oldest lost out on getting lab credit for AP Physics B despite getting a 5 on the exam because Scholars' Online didn't provide us with any documentation and ds didn't keep a good lab notebook. He knows to do this now and my younger son benefiting from this mistake.

 

I'm going to reveal my ignorance, maybe....what would you consider a good lab notebook?

[ladykayaker]

I have only been frustrated and/or disappointed with co-ops and group lab setups. I have found them a tremendous waste of time. I feel the ones available to me are just not worth it. I read with envy about others who enjoy their co-ops or group lab opportunities and who get a lot out of them. But I have never had that experience.

I have seen science experiments done and the instructor not having sufficient in depth knowledge to be even able to describe to the kids the why behind what they are seeing. ds will be doing the Apologia lab experiments at home and I am convinced this will be the best use of mine and his time.