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Need input regarding an incident between my sons and their Scout leaders.


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I'll try to be as succinct as possible, but it will probably be long.:tongue_smilie:

 

My 14yo and 11yo boys are at Boy Scout camp. This is a troop that is new to us, though we have known the Scoutmaster for a long time. This is the first time my 11yo has been away from home. The situation involved my two sons, the Scoutmaster, and another Scout leader. It was witnessed by the two senior patrol leaders, one of whom is the Scoutmaster's son, and they verified this chain of events.

 

My 11yo has some issues, including ADHD, for which he takes Vyvanse. His ADHD problems are almost entirely academic, though he did have rage problems in the past. These rage issues stemmed from his being a very bright kid who was "stuck in his own head" (his words.) Vyvanse has worked wonders for him, but one of the side effects when it wears off is what we term "the Vyvanse crash." He can be extremely irritable, or extremely sad. It lasts about 30 minutes, and he hates it as much as anyone else would. It happens once every couple of months, but is exacerbated by other stress (it is more likely to happen if he is already upset, tired, etc.) Before he went to camp, I had 3 separate conversations about this with the Scoutmaster, two in his official capacity, and another as a friend. I told him what to expect, how to handle it, and to let him call home if he needed to.

 

Last night we went to Family Night. We weren't able to stay past the flag lowering, and our good-byes were really short. My 11yo was sad to see us go, but seemed to be okay. He got through campfire fine. After campfire, they went back to their tents, but my 14yo didn't feel good, so he went for a walk. The Scoutmaster said to another scout, "I have to go find (my 14yo)" and left to find him. A few minutes later, my 11yo asked that Scout where his brother was and he told him he had left. My 11yo thought he meant he had gone home, and he had a meltdown. He was sobbing and yelling (so no violence, aggression, etc.)

 

My 14yo heard him, came back, and ran to get the Scoutmaster and the other leader. As they were coming back, and within hearing range of my 11yo, the Scoutmaster said, "(The 11yo) is too dangerous to be in this camp!":001_huh: This made my 14yo feel like he had to protect his brother from as he termed it "dangerous words." He said he didn't want the Scoutmaster to say anything else to make his brother feel like a "freak."

 

He got between my 11yo and the Scoutmaster, refusing to let him near him. The Scoutmaster was yelling at him, and the other leader got involved. My 14yo got in his face, and they were headed towards a serious confrontation when the Scout leaders decided to leave and let my 14yo handle it.

 

At this point, my 14yo called me, I talked to the 11yo, I talked to him, and then I insisted to speak to the Scout leader to get his side of the story. I didn't argue, accuse, etc. The Scoutmaster verified the above, minus the comment about my 11yo being dangerous (and I didn't bring it up.) He said we were going to have to sit down with the leaders and discuss this, so there were no more situations of my 14yo disrespecting their authority. Then he said, "The other leader and I are trained paramedics, and we are used to dealing with people like (my 11yo.)":001_huh:

 

My 11yo is not a monster, not mentally unstable, and not a danger to others. In fact, another leader complimented him earlier about how mature, well-behaved, etc. he was, and how he had taken leadership of the younger group of boys he was with all week, so they made him the quasi-patrol leader of that group. (BTW, the Scoutmaster had not been at camp all week until last night, and when he got there he said that my 11yo was not the leader of anyone.:confused:) I also want to point out that he did not call me, my 14yo did.

 

I did not go back and get them. The two Senior Patrol Leaders volunteered to "hang out" with the 11yo today in order to keep the leaders away from him (I most certainly did not ask them to do this!) The situation was under control, and the boys were willing to stay until tomorrow.

 

So, if you have gotten all the way through this, where do I go from here? My 14yo was already upset with both leaders, as the Scoutmaster changed all of his merit badges to what he wanted him to take rather than what my 14yo had chosen, and the other leader is a yeller and wants absolute obedience. So, there were background issues other than just the situation.

 

I am not a parent that always comes down on the side of my dc. I won't intervene unless I feel that it is absolutely necessary. I feel that they will always have to deal with difficult people, including bosses and other authority figures. I have taught them that you are to do the right thing even when others don't, including showing respect to authority figures who don't act as they should. Respect for elders is very important, but not to the extent of blind obedience.

 

I am torn between punishing my my 14yo for being disrespectful, and lauding him for protecting his brother. Being confrontational is NOT in his personality, and I was shocked to hear that he got in the face of the other leader (they were yelling back and forth at each other.) He told me that he really felt he had to protect the 11yo from being hurt by the words of the Scoutmaster. I had told the 14yo to take care of his brother.

 

My dh says they are done with this troop (they have only been part of it since April.) I agree (for other reasons as well), but I still feel the need to address what happened and how to handle a similar situation in the future.

 

So, thoughts? (And this is not a JAWM post, I am willing to hear all sides.)

 

UPDATE: see post #31 for the rest of the story....

Edited by Renee in FL
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Tell your 14yo he followed the oath to the letter. He was morally strong, and helped other people. He should be applauded for his bravery in standing up for what is right. That takes courage to show his loyalty and help in a difficult situation.

 

As for the scoutmaster, you need to request a meeting with him and at least two other adults pronto - ours would include two ranked members of the committee who I felt comfortable talking to. They need to be made aware of what happened at camp, your expectations for a leader (including an apology), and your decision in staying with or leaving the troop.

 

I would be ticked. We've had interesting scoutmasters but I've always made sure I was up on things. When the one took it upon himself to yell at my son for not having a piece of his uniform (one we had to get from the troop and their organization was a mess) and did so in front of a group of people, I stepped in and laid it down: 1. Not my kid's responsibility. You wanna yell, see me instead. 2. If it was his responsibility, the leader should always pull the kid to the side for a private conversation instead of using embarrassment as a tactic.

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Personally.....

 

I would PRAISE your 14ds for standing up for:

 

a) what HE felt was right (or in this case wrong). It takes a strong man to stand up to his "superiors."

 

b) his brother. How many brothers will stand up in front of his peers, even new peers.

 

c) going out of his "normal" zone. You said, "being confrontational is NOT in his personality." DUDE!!! Give him the biggest hug and praise him!!!

 

Next, were this my 14yos I would ASK him what he wants to do about this troop. He may well not want to stay between this incident AND the merit badges. There are other troops they can be apart of.

 

GOod luck!

 

Kris

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It sounds like your 14-year-old did the right thing.

 

The Scoutmaster sounds as if he forgot all your previous conversations about your 11-year-old. It sounds like he either hadn't been paying attention when you talked to him, or overreacted when he saw your 11-year-old crying and yelling. (Overreacted given that he had been told what to expect and it sounds like your son behaved in the way you predicted he might.)

 

He should apologize to both your boys.

 

The merit badge thing just sounds weird. My kid tells me that he gets assigned merit badges to do at camp, but in his case I think he's just being passive and not asking for what he wants. I'd want to know more about that. Why were your son's changed? Were the ones he chosen simply not being offered after all for some reason? Had too many boys signed up for some and they had to switch some people to other badges? (Not asking you to answer these questions, just things I'd want to know.)

 

Sounds messy. Sounds like some visits to different troops are in order. I'm sorry you are dealing with this.

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Personally.....

 

I would PRAISE your 14ds for standing up for:

 

a) what HE felt was right (or in this case wrong). It takes a strong man to stand up to his "superiors."

 

b) his brother. How many brothers will stand up in front of his peers, even new peers.

 

c) going out of his "normal" zone. You said, "being confrontational is NOT in his personality." DUDE!!! Give him the biggest hug and praise him!!!

 

Next, were this my 14yos I would ASK him what he wants to do about this troop. He may well not want to stay between this incident AND the merit badges. There are other troops they can be apart of.

 

GOod luck!

 

Kris

 

:iagree: DS14 sounds like a remarkable young man.

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Big brother did a great job, imo. He was asked to take care of his brother, and he did so to the best of his ability.

 

In hindsight, we can always think of ways a situation might have been handled differently, but he had to make quick decisions in the heat of things. I wouldn't even discuss different things he might have said or done (now); I would just say, You did a good job in a difficult situation. Thank you for looking out for your brother.

 

Diplomacy can be discussed at a later time, and it sounds like it would have been ineffective in this case anyway. Some people truly can only be handled by getting in their face. You don't need to discuss some hypothetical future situation right now.

 

As far as the troop goes, I would decide if my input is likely to be considered or dismissed. If I think they might honestly consider it, I might write a letter (after a long cooling-off period, *g*). If I'm fairly sure they will dismiss it, I would skip it.

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I have a lot of conversations with ds about standing up for the right thing. Sometimes that includes challenging authority. Sounds like he was in fear of his little brother being hurt (emotionally). I would probably make up an, "I am my brother's keeper" merit badge and award it to him privately.

 

I would walk through each step of the incident and ensure he was reacting in a manner that challenged, but still respected authority. No touching, no cursing, etc. I would have that be a private conversation as well.

 

Pulling out the "trained paramedic" line is almost pathetic. They were cautioned about this behavior and they were yelling? Please, sounds like a bruised ego. I would have been tempted to pull out the, "well I'm his mother" line.

 

I would sit down with the others and without emotion ask why it was deemed that your son was a danger to the camp? Let them figure out how you know they said it.

 

In five or ten years it won't matter that this incident happened, hopefully. In five to ten year and so on, your 11 year old will know he can count on his big brother to protect him. Sounds like a great lesson to learn at camp, although not in the way you'd prefer I"m sure.

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Tell your 14yo he followed the oath to the letter. He was morally strong, and helped other people. He should be applauded for his bravery in standing up for what is right. That takes courage to show his loyalty and help in a difficult situation.

 

As for the scoutmaster, you need to request a meeting with him and at least two other adults pronto - ours would include two ranked members of the committee who I felt comfortable talking to. They need to be made aware of what happened at camp, your expectations for a leader (including an apology), and your decision in staying with or leaving the troop.

 

I would be ticked. We've had interesting scoutmasters but I've always made sure I was up on things. When the one took it upon himself to yell at my son for not having a piece of his uniform (one we had to get from the troop and their organization was a mess) and did so in front of a group of people, I stepped in and laid it down: 1. Not my kid's responsibility. You wanna yell, see me instead. 2. If it was his responsibility, the leader should always pull the kid to the side for a private conversation instead of using embarrassment as a tactic.

 

I wholeheartedly agree - kudos to your boy! And unless there were extenuating circumstances, I would be seriously ticked at anyone deciding on which merit badges *they* thought my son should do. That's the scout's choice, and part of their growth in the program. If it were my guys, we'd be looking for a different troop. I also don't think a scoutmaster should be able to mandate certain badges based on what the troop activities for the year are going to be (or ever, for that matter); if a boy isn't comfortable with, and hasn't earned, the swimming or canoeing badge, they don't get to go on the trip (which they probably wouldn't enjoy, anyhow). They'll get it, and get to participate, when they are ready. :glare:

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I'd move on. Your 14 year old acted fine. The adults acted like weirdos. Then again they don't know your son so I suppose they are just filling in the blanks.

 

This is supposed to be a fun time right? It doesn't sound all that fun.

 

:iagree: I especially agree with the other posters about commending your 14yo for protecting his brother. It would be a difficult situation, particularly in the heat of the moment, and it sounds like he handled it as best he could without elevating it further. As a mom, I'd be thankful that my ds was not only taking care of his brother, but also that he was modeling such brave behavior.

 

And in light of those men, Renee, who died in the Aurora shooting while protecting their girlfriends, that's a lesson I'd really want to leave my kids with this week.:crying:

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He got through campfire fine. After campfire ...

 

 

Sorry to hear that all this happened. If any sort of meltdown or horseplay happens around a campfire, the leaders (or basically anyone anyone physically stronger than the horseplayer) are right to step in immediately.

 

the other leader is a yeller and wants absolute obedience.

 

 

Habitual yelling is not a leadership trait you want your scout to model.

 

My dh says they are done with this troop (they have only been part of it since April.) I agree (for other reasons as well), but I still feel the need to address what happened and how to handle a similar situation in the future.

 

Just ask the 14yo to tell his brother where he is. He did well as it is. Leave the troop by all means, but I think you should try to hear out (again) the other adults' version of what happened.

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The habitual yelling is inappropriate. The lack of listening to you when you told them about your son is not acceptable. Calling a child dangerous who is only crying because of being upset and not showing signs of aggression is very inappropriate. Changing merit badges on the child if the ones the child has already chosen to pursue are acceptable for the situation is not acceptable.

 

And the coup de gras - according dd, our in house paramedic - was pulling the "I'm a medic line" in order to shut up a mom when the trained individual has clearly screwed up dealing with a pediatric situation...as she puts it, any medic knows you are very careful, thoughtful, gentle, ginger, and non-threatening (which means low, modulated tone of voice) when dealing with upset kids so she'd like to know where this "putz" took his training! :D As she put it, "If he was my EMT or medic partner and started yelling like that, I'd roll his head metaphorically speaking, and he would be reported to the shift supervisor." So, it may have been a scout outing, but pulling out "I'm a medic" is actually not working in his favor because he is held to a higher standard.

 

I think you need a meeting. After that, I would consider finding a different scout group.

 

Faith

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Renee,

 

If you need another troop recommendation, I can recommend my son's troop, provided you are still in the Durham area. (I seem to remember that you were maybe going to move?) Anyhow, PM me if you want any info. While I have a few issues with the troop (mainly regarding merit badge factory approach :001_smile:), I think the way the troop handles the boys and various issues is solid, and that is more important to me. They generally support the boy, even boys with issues, and I appreciate that. Anyhow, if you want the contact info, let me know.

 

Susan

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Based on what you said in your OP, I would not punish your son. I would have a talk with your sons about how the adults messed up. Basically you told them what to expect and what to do about it, and they forgot and/or were unable to react maturely in the situation. A boy raising his voice and standing between people who are out of control, in an effort to defend someone who needs defense, is not doing anything wrong in my opinion.

 

Whether you talk to the leadership depends on whether you think it will do any good. My guess would be that the individuals involved are too egoistic to admit fault and they could just exaggerate the situation with your sons to make themselves look less stupid. Which could harm your sons if they went far enough.

 

I think the next time you send your younger son off to camp, you should provide information in writing about his situation and how it should be dealt with, and ask a person in charge to sign a copy. Apparently just talking to the guy did not help at all.

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It would have been obvious to me even without you having said so specifically that when your 11 year old melted down it was because he thought his brother had truly left the camp to go home. Handling the panic in that situation with yelling and confrontation was the absolute worst thing to do. The scout leaders (both of them) made one bad decision after another.

 

I'm wondering though if they hadn't been primed a bit to go off like that by all your previous explanations. I bet that paramedic experience or not, they felt a bit out of their league with handling a crash like you had described. Then when your 11 year old started to melt down, instead of handling it calmly and (in my opinion) with common sense, they went "OMG it has happened" inside and acted with extra adrenalin. And everything you had told them to do, like to call you, went out the window.

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1. Did your ds14 tell anyone where he was going? Did he have permission to go alone? Usually, especially after dark, the "buddy system" is required. This should be discussed, separate from the ds11 issue.

 

2. Did anyone in leadership try to understand why ds11 was upset? Did he continue to melt down when he found that ds14 was still around? What finally calmed him down?

 

3. Trained paramedics should know that "altered mental status" has many causes, often physical, and that yelling does zero to help, especially in a pediatric situation. In particular, it doesn't allow much space for *listening* to the child, and helping the child to communicate what the issue is.

 

4. Absolute obedience can be useful, especially in safety situations, but thoughtful obedience is a better model. In this case, the leader's role was to calm things down, and to gather information so as to better address the situation. A leader who asks for obedience without seeking input could make bad decisions. (See Seeger, Pete, Waist Deep in the Big Muddy, video

.)

 

5. I would respectfully inquire about the changed merit badges. There may be a good reason (though if so, I would have expected the leader to explain it to ds14 and to make sure he understood). Did the leader not explain why, or did ds14 not understand his reasoning, or did ds14 understand but still not agree? At 14, they may be aiming him towards Eagle, and trying to have him choose badges/activities that will help him advance rank sooner, or that are Eagle-required but harder to get locally - that would be a good thing, but again they should explain it to him. This is a separate issue from all that went on with ds11.

 

Respect for elders is very important, but not to the extent of blind obedience.

 

That should be part of your discussions with both boys.

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Short update:

 

I just came back from Boy Scout camp with my sons after a 2 hour meeting with the head of camp. It basically blew up today, and I walked into a firestorm of trouble. Long story short, I brought my sons home, 2 other boys left (including the Scoutmaster's son, but with his mom), and the head of camp made the two leaders leave. There is a meeting on Sunday with the troop committee, and the Scoutmaster is most likely going to be removed.

 

It is now 1:45am, and I am very tired. I may update more later, but for now I am too tired.:tongue_smilie:

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The only thing I would say to ds14 is that he did an amazing job and the only improvement he could have made to the event was to tell his brother where he was going. Vyvanse crash is not fun and I completely understand it as my ds is on the same medication only his crash is not sadness but he gets extremely quiet and then is like the freakin energizer bunny for about half an hour. Be proud of your son mom he did so good in that situation. I pray my ds knows he can stand up for his sisters in the same way without risk of getting in trouble at home.

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Short update:

 

I just came back from Boy Scout camp with my sons after a 2 hour meeting with the head of camp. It basically blew up today, and I walked into a firestorm of trouble. Long story short, I brought my sons home, 2 other boys left (including the Scoutmaster's son, but with his mom), and the head of camp made the two leaders leave. There is a meeting on Sunday with the troop committee, and the Scoutmaster is most likely going to be removed.

 

It is now 1:45am, and I am very tired. I may update more later, but for now I am too tired.:tongue_smilie:

Wow. :grouphug:

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Short update:

 

I just came back from Boy Scout camp with my sons after a 2 hour meeting with the head of camp. It basically blew up today, and I walked into a firestorm of trouble. Long story short, I brought my sons home, 2 other boys left (including the Scoutmaster's son, but with his mom), and the head of camp made the two leaders leave. There is a meeting on Sunday with the troop committee, and the Scoutmaster is most likely going to be removed.

 

It is now 1:45am, and I am very tired. I may update more later, but for now I am too tired.:tongue_smilie:

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

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I agree (for other reasons as well), but I still feel the need to address what happened and how to handle a similar situation in the future.

 

I wouldn't feel the need, and I would think another camp-out with both sons there AND two hot headed leaders is so unlikely to happen, I wouldn't worry.

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We had a situation like this in our former troop -- a young man defended his brother against a troop leader. Ultimately it was viewed as "insubordination" and "failure to respect authority." Just my opinion, but I think that loyalty and protection of someone else, especially a vulnerable family member, trumps submission to authority. Your son did a very mature and praiseworthy thing.

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Personally.....

 

I would PRAISE your 14ds for standing up for:

 

a) what HE felt was right (or in this case wrong). It takes a strong man to stand up to his "superiors."

 

b) his brother. How many brothers will stand up in front of his peers, even new peers.

 

c) going out of his "normal" zone. You said, "being confrontational is NOT in his personality." DUDE!!! Give him the biggest hug and praise him!!!

 

Next, were this my 14yos I would ASK him what he wants to do about this troop. He may well not want to stay between this incident AND the merit badges. There are other troops they can be apart of.

 

GOod luck!

 

Kris

 

:iagree: Your 14yo sounds like he's turning out to be a great young man.

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Here's the whole story:

 

OK, the other characters: Boy 1 is the Scoutmaster's son, who is a Type 1 diabetic. Last year his mom had to come twice to take him to the hospital for dangerously high sugars. (Yes, his dad is there, but that is part of the ridiculousness.) Mom trained Boy 2 to give him shots, monitor him, etc. and asked that he stay with him 24/7.

 

Boy 1 and 2 were already being screamed at, treated badly, etc. starting Wed. due to them always being together (which meant if one boy missed a class, they both did. At family night, Boy 2 asked his mom to take him home, but she didn't (thought it was just homesickness.) The situation happened Thursday night with my sons, which again was verified by all invovled. (The other leader got in my ds's face and screamed at him to "go sit the F down" and that is when my son felt he had to keep them from his brother at all costs.) My boys were told that they were no longer welcome in the troop. Never did I get a phone call from a leader.

 

After the incident with my boys, my oldest ds was talking to the 14yo, when Boy 1 got on the phone. Boy 1 and 2 (Patrol Leader and Senior Patrol Leader) agreed to stay with my boys to keep the leaders away from them. In retrospect, I should have gone to get them, but I didn't realize there were on-going problems.

 

On Friday, Boy 1's sugars were all over the place, but no one seemed to be concerned about that.:confused: They were more concerned about the boys not being in class. Now, Boy 1 and Boy 2 were not doing what they were supposed to, so they aren't innocent in all of this, but the leaders were NOT handling it well at all. They were being constantly screamed at and harassed. Boy 1's dad even told him that he couldn't come to camp next year without a parent - ummm, HELLO?!?!

 

Enter Friday evening. I ran into Boy 2's mom and she told me there were issues and a few Dads were going up the next day to deal with it. At this point I didn't know my sons were involved.

 

After flag pole, they were supposed to go to campfire, but didn't because they didn't want to be yelled at in front of others . (Already addressed about how to handle that in the future - again, the boys were not blameless.) They were walking around the Trading Post (outside) and other places. The other leader (and Leader 3) were following them. It got to the point of being creepy - they were hiding in the shadows, and when they went in to the bathroom the leaders stood outside waiting, and then were blocking the door when they tried to come out. My ds told me this was going on, so I told him I was going to come get them to put an end to this crazy situation. I even talked to the Scoutmaster, whose version of events was very different, but I figured removing the boys would end it.

 

Boy 1 was talking to his brother and who heard the other leader screaming at them. Boy 1's mother got on the phone and told them to find a staff person and tell them what was going on. They did, and were taken to the camp director, who talked to them. At the same time, Boy 1's mother called the troop's committee chairperson, who called the camp director, and filled him in on past events. It seems this is NOT the first incident!:001_huh:

 

So, I get there, intending to just get my boys and their stuff, and leave. However, I was told to come into the camp director's office. I told him what I knew of the situation Thursday night, and that I had no idea about the rest. The Scoutmaster came in and gave his side of things, but was obviously lying (giving very vague, hesitating answers to direct questions.) He admitted that he might have said something about my 11yo being dangerous (and the other leader would not give a direct answer about whether or not he got in my 14yo's face).

 

So, camp leader, after talking to us, the 2 leaders, the boys, etc. told the two leaders they were removed from camp. He also said the committee chairperson (who had been ready to come to camp too if needed) was calling a meeting for Sunday. The Scoutmaster is most likely going to be removed, as he had been given many chances and the situation had not changed. Boy 1's mother is going to court to get the judge to stop unsupervised visitation due to the total lack of care and concern for his diabetes.

 

So, there you go. I said to the other leader at one point, "Even if the boys were 100% wrong in this, you and the Scoutmaster handled this very badly. You are the adults here, and you did not act in a mature manner. At no point did someone call me or my husband and tell us there was a problem." I think this is it - there was a total lack of leadership, and two adults who were acting horribly.

 

Now ending the novel.:tongue_smilie:

Edited by Renee in FL
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I said to the other leader at one point, "Even if the boys were 100% wrong in this, you and the Scoutmaster handled this very badly. You are the adults here, and you did not act in a mature manner. At no point did someone call me or my husband and tell us there was a problem." I think this is it - there was a total lack of leadership, and two adults who were acting horribly.

 

 

And there you hit the nail on the head. None of the things the boys did were horrible. They were all in reaction to the abusive behavior of the leaders.

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Honestly, I'd be ticked that they knew this guy was a problem and continued giving him chances. This seems to go a lot higher than just this one guy.

 

(((hugs))) I'm so sorry you and your boys had to go through that.

 

:iagree:sadly troops are hurting so badly for leaders this crap happens. When my oldest was in beaver scouts (age 5-7 here in Canada), my brother was a leader. My brother called me from camp one time to tell me to come immediately for my son. My son never did anything wrong. But the primary leader of the group showed up to camp drunk. He had driven drunk there, and was slurring his words, stumbling around etc. They had him essentially locked away in the cookhouse away from the boys until he sobered up enough to send him on his way. BUt brother did not want ds to witness any of that. That primary leader remained the leader for 2 more years. He is the sole reason my boys did not return to that troop and my brother quit leadership. After the camp he showed up to other functions and meeting drunk. IT was all reported through appropriate channels but council bought his crap about doing AA etc and being a better leader each time. He had been a leader for 20 years before he became a drunk so they hoped for the best.

 

He no longer works with boys, now he works in council office in a paid position.

 

He is the main reason that when my boys joined scouting out here I became a leader, I wanted to have the power to stop someone from harming my boys. Now their troop last year, the scoutmaster could be a yeller, and I posted about it here. I ended up emailing him my greivances about the treatment of my boys. Despite his initial defensiveness I did notice him actively trying to see the whole picture and not just spaz out on my 8 yr old. He came to me at year end camp and apologized for his behaviour, he realized that through his actions he taught the other boys to disrespect ds and that ds was acting out of that when he said stupid things etc. I appreciated the apology BUT when told I had the chance to start a new group keeping them away from him was a little bit of the reason why I jumped at the chance.

 

 

Sorry didn't mean to threadjack

 

OP I am so glad that the group committee will likely remove him from leadership. What a mess all around. Hearing all the extra information given I am very impressed with how calm you remained. I would have shown them what a yeller can really sound like, but I am much more volitile towards adults that have caused some harm to my kids.

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Wow.

 

I think your DS14 is awesome!

 

I think you handled the situation with a lot of grace. I don't know that I could be that rational or calm.

 

And if your Dh is anything like mine, I think he showed incredible restraint in not throttling those guys.

 

I'm sorry your boys had to go through such an awful experience. Hopefully they'll find a different troop that isn't chock full of crazy.

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:iagree:sadly troops are hurting so badly for leaders this crap happens. When my oldest was in beaver scouts (age 5-7 here in Canada), my brother was a leader. My brother called me from camp one time to tell me to come immediately for my son. My son never did anything wrong. But the primary leader of the group showed up to camp drunk. He had driven drunk there, and was slurring his words, stumbling around etc. They had him essentially locked away in the cookhouse away from the boys until he sobered up enough to send him on his way. BUt brother did not want ds to witness any of that. That primary leader remained the leader for 2 more years. He is the sole reason my boys did not return to that troop and my brother quit leadership. After the camp he showed up to other functions and meeting drunk. IT was all reported through appropriate channels but council bought his crap about doing AA etc and being a better leader each time. He had been a leader for 20 years before he became a drunk so they hoped for the best.

 

He no longer works with boys, now he works in council office in a paid position.

 

He is the main reason that when my boys joined scouting out here I became a leader, I wanted to have the power to stop someone from harming my boys. Now their troop last year, the scoutmaster could be a yeller, and I posted about it here. I ended up emailing him my greivances about the treatment of my boys. Despite his initial defensiveness I did notice him actively trying to see the whole picture and not just spaz out on my 8 yr old. He came to me at year end camp and apologized for his behaviour, he realized that through his actions he taught the other boys to disrespect ds and that ds was acting out of that when he said stupid things etc. I appreciated the apology BUT when told I had the chance to start a new group keeping them away from him was a little bit of the reason why I jumped at the chance.

 

We had a leader who didn't feel that the boys in the troop should have to do any work at Scout camp because ... because it was their summer vacation. :rolleyes:

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After hearing that it was so much more than just the one incident I would be even more inclined to award them for how they handled things. PP upthread talked about creating a "merit badge" of sorts for your oldest standing up for his brother and what's right. I think both boys should be "awarded" for steadfastness in the face of adversity. I would also be sending along a card telling the patrol leader etc the same thing. They really lived the scout law by stepping up to look out for your boys and not allow them to continue to be abused. Heck at this point I would be planning a backyard party for all the boys involved, they really did a bang up job looking out for each other, and trying to protect the younger ones as much as they could given that they had to stand up to leadership, for boy 1 and 2 it sounds like they had to stand up to their parent etc. Kids are taught from so young to always accept the authority of those in charge, and those boys where smart enough and brave enough to say no. I would want to celebrate and encourage that.

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I've been following this, but haven't posted yet. I am so sorry for what you -- and the boys -- have been going through. The boys sound great!

 

Let us know what the Committee does -- I hope the SM will be out asap. And that his wife's court case goes well.

 

:grouphug:

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THis is so absurd. I am glad the SM is on his way out. To not even care about his own son and his wavering blood sugars??????

 

When I first read your statement, I thought I needed to hear more before making a judgement. BUt if that is the way he treats his own son who has a potentially deadly disease, I would not want this man in charge of any scouts at all.

 

We only changed a troop once but it had to do with personalities and disorganization, nothing like what some of you are talking about. Wow. Oh and I still have my youngest in BSA- Venture Crew. So altogether, I think we have had about 23 years involvement in scouting with no such issues, for any one else who is reading. That included dens, troops, crews, and units, 11 different groups in all between all the children.

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I have been following, but didn't post because I have never had any involvement with BSA... That will likely change in the next few years when my DS gets a little older.

 

The update on the OP is just jaw dropping. I was fully expecting something along the lines of "both the leader and the boys were wrong, we've all mended fences". But HOLY COW! I think you have two fantastic boys, you behaved perfectly, and some swift justice is coming down on that freak of a SM! High five your boys for me!!

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:iagree::iagree:

 

I am so glad to hear that the terrible leaders are being removed from the situation. They have no business being involved in scouts. How scary for everyone involved! I am glad to hear that this is not being tolerated by the committee or the camp leadership!!
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