Civil Air Patrol and Facebook situation - a question

[swimmermom3]

Last night at my older son's CAP meeting, there was a character development session. The senior members of the squadron monitor the cadets' Facebook pages. At the session, one of my son's Facebook posts was used for an exercise pasted on a board for all cadets to see. The post was very emotional and it stemmed from a recent painful event. The responses to the post were also shown, although everyone's names were blocked out. The commander pointed out responses that were appropriate and ones that were not helpful.

 

This whole scenario just does not seem right. Your thoughts?

[SkateLeft]

Honestly, I'd be angry.

 

In my opinion, they should have asked first before sharing your son's post with the rest of the group. It's completely inappropriate to put it on a board in front of everyone, and it's ironic that they'd do it under the label of "character development."

 

I'd feel that it's a violation of privacy and the trust that my child had placed in the senior members of the group.

[Murphy101]

Sounds like a wonderful example of why one should not friend people who are not in fact friends.

 

The senior members have no business monitoring anything on my son's FB, much less using it for a misguided and oxymoronic "lesson" about what is appropriate character development about his FB discussions.

 

I'd promptly tell my son to unfriend senior member(s).

 

I'd be ticked too.

:glare:

[regentrude]

Sounds like a wonderful example of why one should not friend people who are not in fact friends.

 

:iagree:

How has your son set his privacy settings? Are the senior members his fb friends? Is his wall visible to friends of friends?

 

It is definitely not an appropriate situation - but OTOH, this is precisely what happens if personal information is published on a social medium.

I'd take it as a learning opportunity.

[Jenny in Florida]

That is such a massive invasion of privacy and violation of trust that I can't even form words.

 

I would explain to the leaders immediately why my son was unfriending them, and I'd be writing very strongly worded letters to whoever is next up the chain of command.

 

That would be humiliating and simply devastating for many teens I know. Completely innapropriate.

 

We considered allowing our son to investigate CAP. Right now I'm extremely glad we did not go forward with that.

[In The Great White North]

The problem with Facebook (email, texting, etc) is that anyone who has access to it can pass it on to anyone else, without permission. It's not private - more like putting it on a billboard. I hope that was pointed out too.

 

 

 

The senior members of the squadron monitor the cadets' Facebook pages.

 

Why? They certainly don't here. I think he should tell the senior member and/or the commander that it wasn't appropriate and he didn't appreciate it (in a professional way, of course.) Or just "unfriend" him.

[swimmermom3]

I believe the senior members require access to the cadets' pages to monitor them.

 

I do agree that it is a learning lesson for my son, albeit an humiliating one.

 

My problem is in the senior members calling us about the post a week ago because they were concerned for our son's welfare and then they used his pain as an exercise in front of all his peers without his permission or knowledge, so he was blindsided when he went in there.

[In The Great White North]

I believe the senior members require access to the cadets' pages to monitor them.

 

??? I am a senior member in CAP and have never seen nor heard of any requirement to monitor cadets' Facebook pages.

[swimmermom3]

Jenny,

 

Civil Air Patrol is an excellent outside activity and my son has gained so much from it. I would still recommend that you check it out.

 

This situation is a bit unusual for this squadron. There has been a shift in the past year in the senior members to include a very conservative family. We seem to have a considerable amount of moral monitoring now. What is odd is that it has always been a good group of kids and there has actually been more drama and problems in the past year.

 

 

 

 

That is such a massive invasion of privacy and violation of trust that I can't even form words.

 

I would explain to the leaders immediately why my son was unfriending them, and I'd be writing very strongly worded letters to whoever is next up the chain of command.

 

That would be humiliating and simply devastating for many teens I know. Completely innapropriate.

 

We considered allowing our son to investigate CAP. Right now I'm extremely glad we did not go forward with that.

[regentrude]

That is such a massive invasion of privacy ...

 

That is exactly the point: facebook is not private.

[IsabelC]

:iagree:

How has your son set his privacy settings? Are the senior members his fb friends? Is his wall visible to friends of friends?

 

It is definitely not an appropriate situation - but OTOH, this is precisely what happens if personal information is published on a social medium.

I'd take it as a learning opportunity.

 

^^^ This^^^

 

One the one hand, it was totally inappropriate for the personal information to be used without explicit consent gained in advance.

 

On the other hand, putting something on Facebook (or a blog or a forum or whatever) is putting it out in public. Even the strictest privacy settings don't guarantee privacy. The bottom line is, if you have any reservations about anybody at all reading/seeing something, then don't post it online. I can't believe how people do dumb things like posting on FB about how they have cheated their employer, then complaining when a new prosepective employer checks their profile and doesn't hire them.

 

I'm very sorry your son was hurt and had to learn the hard way though.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Hotdrink

[regentrude]

My problem is in the senior members calling us about the post a week ago because they were concerned for our son's welfare and then they used his pain as an exercise in front of all his peers without his permission or knowledge, so he was blindsided when he went in there.

 

That shows a high degree of insensitivity, and as a parent, I would definitely address this with the leaders. What were they thinking?

 

I do not think it is a reasonable demand to have access to the cadet's facebook pages. After this incident, I would strongly refuse.

 

ETA: Is your son aware that he can delete his facebook posts? Maybe a periodic cleanup and deletion of old posts would be a good habit to form.

[Jenny in Florida]

My problem is in the senior members calling us about the post a week ago because they were concerned for our son's welfare and then they used his pain as an exercise in front of all his peers without his permission or knowledge, so he was blindsided when he went in there.

 

That is simply irresponsible. Did they even think? They were so concerned about him last week that they contacted his parents . . . and this week they humiliate him in front of his peers? Are they completely unaware of the kinds of things teenagers in pain do to themselves?

 

I'm assuming you want him to continue participating in this organization, although I'm unclear on why. But I would be so far beyond angry.

[Jenny in Florida]

That is exactly the point: facebook is not private.

 

No, I understand that. My point was that her son TRUSTED these people. It's one thing to share things with your friends. It's a whole other ball of wax to have adults in a position of power air things in front of a group.

 

I don't think anyone is taking this seriously enough, honestly.

[Jenny in Florida]

Jenny,

 

Civil Air Patrol is an excellent outside activity and my son has gained so much from it. I would still recommend that you check it out.

 

Oh, there were approximately 100 other reasons we decided against allowing CAP for our son. This just makes me extra glad we dodged the bullet.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

This isn't at all consistent with our experience of years in CAP. I hope you are able to get this resolved to your satisfaction.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Tibbie Dunbar

[elegantlion]

That shows a high degree of insensitivity, and as a parent, I would definitely address this with the leaders. What were they thinking?

 

 

:iagree: :iagree: Highly insensitive regardless the organization. I would expect a situation that required parental intervention to be kept private or allowed a private meeting between the child and parents.

 

If an example needed to be made, then it should have been made from a hypothetical situation, not one plucked from your son's facebook page. I do agree there is little assumption of privacy anywhere online, but their actions were insensitive and I would be livid.

 

:grouphug:

[swimmermom3]

That shows a high degree of insensitivity, and as a parent, I would definitely address this with the leaders. What were they thinking?

 

I do not think it is a reasonable demand to have access to the cadet's facebook pages. After this incident, I would strongly refuse.

 

ETA: Is your son aware that he can delete his facebook posts? Maybe a periodic cleanup and deletion of old posts would be a good habit to form.

 

He wasn't and sends you his gratitude. He just wants the whole thing to go away and is out there right now working on it. He has tried to be careful and appropriate, but I think the teen male hormones bulldozed what was left of his common sense.

[swimmermom3]

Oh, there were approximately 100 other reasons we decided against allowing CAP for our son. This just makes me extra glad we dodged the bullet.

 

Jenny, while my family supports our service men and women, war, guns, and the military culture are difficult for us to fathom, and so of course, we have a son who wants to be in the Air Force or the U.S. Coast Guard. We support our son, but are not overly active. One of our older cadets who went on to West Point comes from a family even more degenerate than ours.:D

 

It is also quite possible that situations like my son's will be popping up in many different youth organizations. Facebook is a new frontier and the rules will be constantly changing.

[Murphy101]

I believe the senior members require access to the cadets' pages to monitor them.

 

They are not allowed to require any such thing. They are over stepping themselves inappropriately and I'd make sure those above them know it pronto or leave the squadron before I would let my son do that. And I am NOT at all quick to complain.

 

I do agree that it is a learning lesson for my son, albeit an humiliating one.

 

My problem is in the senior members calling us about the post a week ago because they were concerned for our son's welfare and then they used his pain as an exercise in front of all his peers without his permission or knowledge, so he was blindsided when he went in there.

 

What. The. Beep

 

THAT is wrong in at least 3 different ways. CAP is supposed to develop life skills, leadership, and be a safe place. They screwed up on all three. I'd have been furious. Heck. I'm furious now anyways!:glare:

 

Jenny,

 

Civil Air Patrol is an excellent outside activity and my son has gained so much from it. I would still recommend that you check it out.

 

This situation is a bit unusual for this squadron. There has been a shift in the past year in the senior members to include a very conservative family. We seem to have a considerable amount of moral monitoring now. What is odd is that it has always been a good group of kids and there has actually been more drama and problems in the past year.

 

Leadership is a tremendous difference. CAP has some wonderful opportunities to offer, but it takes good leadership and communication to make the opportunities happen.

 

CAP is not supposed to have ANY religious requirement, much less monitoring. I'd tell them that it was my understanding CAP was not intended for that purpose.

 

It sounds like your squadron has been shanghaied by some who thinks they have the authority to make CAP something it isn't supposed to be.:glare:

[swimmermom3]

They are not allowed to require any such thing. They are over stepping themselves inappropriately and I'd make sure those above them know it pronto or leave the squadron before I would let my son do that. And I am NOT at all quick to complain.

 

 

 

What. The. Beep

 

THAT is wrong in at least 3 different ways. CAP is supposed to develop life skills, leadership, and be a safe place. They screwed up on all three. I'd have been furious. Heck. I'm furious now anyways!:glare:

 

 

 

Leadership is a tremendous difference. CAP has some wonderful opportunities to offer, but it takes good leadership and communication to make the opportunities happen.

 

CAP is not supposed to have ANY religious requirement, much less monitoring. I'd tell them that it was my understanding CAP was not intended for that purpose.

 

It sounds like your squadron has been shanghaied by some who thinks they have the authority to make CAP something it isn't supposed to be.:glare:

 

Martha,

 

The more I thought about the ramifications, the more bothered I was. The senior member is a good guy who cares, but who sadly overstepped the mark in this case.

 

:D The wing commander is our next-door neighbor and has known my son since he was six. I invoked my privilege of speaking to him about CAP for the first time in the five years my son has been involved. He says that Facebook monitoring is not official, but is done in the background because of an harassment problem a few years ago and that the senior member should not have done what he did. It will be addressed. Thank goodness.

Edited July 25, 2012 by swimmermom3

[Harriet Vane]

Absolutely inappropriate.

[Katy]

Completely inappropriate, however...

 

Facebook is not private. My friends are surprised when I constantly delete things off my own FB page, but it seems every single time FB updates something, some, if not all of my privacy settings are reset to the default of not private at all. I don't post pictures of my family, ever. I don't include details I wouldn't want everyone to know. I no longer "like" things, as FB uses the things I like to feed advertisements to my friends and say I liked them, so maybe they should try them too.

 

We don't let DC have access to social media until they're about 16. They don't need it.

 

Also, I know an Air Force combat controller. He deletes his entire FB profile every single time he's deployed because it's considered a security risk. I don't know if there is an official policy on that, but I know his work friends all do the same thing. And with more and more employers requiring access to your FB profile before giving a job offer (all in the name of a background check), I think it's very very important to keep things that could ever be hurtful off the internet. There are too many internet archives and places hurtful information could be saved forever, and I, for one, don't want my DC to be defined by a few stupid posts they allow on their FB pages as teenagers.

[elegantlion]

Martha,

 

The more I thought about the ramifications, the more bothered I was. The senior member is a good guy who cares, but who sadly overstepped the mark in this case.

 

:D The wing commander is our next-door neighbor and has know my son since he was six. I invoked my privilege of speaking to him about CAP for the first time in the five years my son has been involved. He says that Facebook monitoring is not official, but is done in the background because of an harassment problem a few years ago and that the senior member should not have done what he did. It will be addressed. Thank goodness.

 

I'm glad it will be addressed. :grouphug:

[CyndiLJ]

As someone with a son in CAP, I can say that I would immediately remove him from this squadron and find another...after having read them the riot act.

 

That being said, this was a lesson learned about the internet, social media and privacy (or the lack thereof). We are in a new era which will create new dilemmas for our children. Our children do not yet have FB accounts, and I am not sure when we will feel comfortable allowing it...not for awhile yet, but they too don't seem to want it either so we are fine for now.

 

Cindy

[swimmermom3]

As someone with a son in CAP, I can say that I would immediately remove him from this squadron and find another...after having read them the riot act.

 

That being said, this was a lesson learned about the internet, social media and privacy (or the lack thereof). We are in a new era which will create new dilemmas for our children. Our children do not yet have FB accounts, and I am not sure when we will feel comfortable allowing it...not for awhile yet, but they too don't seem to want it either so we are fine for now.

 

Cindy

 

The irony here is that we did not allow our son to have a Facebook page until the squad "required" him to because that is how they keep in touch.

[TranquilMind]

Last night at my older son's CAP meeting, there was a character development session. The senior members of the squadron monitor the cadets' Facebook pages. At the session, one of my son's Facebook posts was used for an exercise pasted on a board for all cadets to see. The post was very emotional and it stemmed from a recent painful event. The responses to the post were also shown, although everyone's names were blocked out. The commander pointed out responses that were appropriate and ones that were not helpful.

 

This whole scenario just does not seem right. Your thoughts?

Oh wow. That would so piss me off.

 

How DARE they monitor their pages. That is a parent job, not an "any adult" job.

 

I've been warning my kids about this ever since the stories broke about employers and various others demanding Facebook passwords so they can monitor what people say and with whom they are associating. My youngest doesn't even want one now and I'm hoping my oldest will remove some people who do not need to be there.

 

You've got to treat Facebook as very public, as public as if you were yelling it on the street corner. Diaries with a lock and key should be making a comeback.

[TranquilMind]

The irony here is that we did not allow our son to have a Facebook page until the squad "required" him to because that is how they keep in touch.

 

That's another annoying invasion. Why can't they just send group emails? I was "required" to get a Facebook for a parent group. I resent this.

[TranquilMind]

Completely inappropriate, however...

 

Facebook is not private. My friends are surprised when I constantly delete things off my own FB page, but it seems every single time FB updates something, some, if not all of my privacy settings are reset to the default of not private at all. I don't post pictures of my family, ever. I don't include details I wouldn't want everyone to know. I no longer "like" things, as FB uses the things I like to feed advertisements to my friends and say I liked them, so maybe they should try them too.

 

.

 

Thanks for telling me. I had no idea they did this. I do know that FB and Google (and probably all of them) are evil in their data mining.

[TranquilMind]

Sounds like a wonderful example of why one should not friend people who are not in fact friends.

 

The senior members have no business monitoring anything on my son's FB, much less using it for a misguided and oxymoronic "lesson" about what is appropriate character development about his FB discussions.

 

I'd promptly tell my son to unfriend senior member(s).

 

I'd be ticked too.

:glare:

 

Totally agree, and I'd take it all the way up, if the senior member has a problem with being unfriended.

[In The Great White North]

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmermom3

The irony here is that we did not allow our son to have a Facebook page until the squad "required" him to because that is how they keep in touch.

 

You mean the entire unit had already seen it?

[regentrude]

The irony here is that we did not allow our son to have a Facebook page until the squad "required" him to because that is how they keep in touch.

 

So the whole group is facebook friends with one another? Which means they have seen the original posts on his page before the incident?

[swimmermom3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmermom3

The irony here is that we did not allow our son to have a Facebook page until the squad "required" him to because that is how they keep in touch.

 

You mean the entire unit had already seen it?

 

He is friends with two of the senior members who are fathers of fellow cadets, and three other cadets out of the whole squadron. The post that was used as an example had nothing to do with CAP and a few in the room did know it was my son's post.

[Candid]

Martha,

 

The more I thought about the ramifications, the more bothered I was. The senior member is a good guy who cares, but who sadly overstepped the mark in this case.

 

:D The wing commander is our next-door neighbor and has known my son since he was six. I invoked my privilege of speaking to him about CAP for the first time in the five years my son has been involved. He says that Facebook monitoring is not official, but is done in the background because of an harassment problem a few years ago and that the senior member should not have done what he did. It will be addressed. Thank goodness.

 

The irony here is that we did not allow our son to have a Facebook page until the squad "required" him to because that is how they keep in touch.

 

Okay, here's what I would do. I would unfriend whatever and whoever he has friended because he was "required" to do so for keeping in touch. I would then have him send an email to the group leaders telling them he has done so and wants all communications to come in some other way. If possible give them a list of ways to communicate: text cell phone, email, phone/voice mail, and even snail mail. And copy the guy next door in this email.

 

If you want to be less head on then go back to the next door and tell him your son will be unfriending everything since it is not required and have him send an email to them telling them that.

[Teachin'Mine]

I think the senior members need that character development they're trying to dole out. Totally inappropriate. I'd bring this situation to the attention of higher ups so it doesn't happen again.

[Brigid in NC]

I think the senior members need that character development they're trying to dole out. Totally inappropriate. I'd bring this situation to the attention of higher ups so it doesn't happen again.

:iagree:FB is worrisome to me. So sorry for your son. :grouphug:

[luvnlattes]

It will be addressed. Thank goodness.

 

Glad you were able to talk to someone about it and that it will be addressed. I think the situation was completely inappropriate and that the leaders owe your son a private apology.

[Murphy101]

Glad you were able to talk to someone about it and that it will be addressed. I think that the situation was completely inappropriate and that the leaders owe your son a private apology.

 

:001_huh:They made a public transgression, the apology should likewise be public.

 

But whatever works for the OP.:)

[luvnlattes]

:001_huh:They made a public transgression, the apology should likewise be public.

 

But whatever works for the OP.:)

 

Well, my thought was that her son would not want to have the whole thing brought up in front of the group again (my son would be like that) so that is why I said privately. I do think that her son is owed an apology. I agree it should be delivered in whatever way works for OP.

[LinRTX]

I think this is way over the top and would immediately unfriend anyone in the patrol that is not a friend.

 

This is also why I am not on facebook. Too often "friends" arereally only acquaintances and I would not have told them such personal info in person and I don't want to put it out there for the world to see. That leaves only comments like what I'm fixing for dinner to be posted and that is way too boring!

 

I don't like that someone is supposed to read your posts as "character development". It sounds more like privacy invasion, snooping, or a means of bullying.

 

Linda

[AFwife Claire]

The irony here is that we did not allow our son to have a Facebook page until the squad "required" him to because that is how they keep in touch.

 

You know, my sons' squadron has an email list through something--Reichertech.com I believe--for all their communication. Maybe you could suggest that?! It's a whole lot less intrusive to get emails than deal with facebook--and wouldn't some of the cadets be too young to have their own accounts? Seems like that might be a character issue . . . LOL.

[higginszoo]

There was no reason that they needed to use an actual cadet's post in this exercise ... I get the value of this type of exercise, but it would have been much more appropriate for them to fabricate a scenario and teach the same lesson.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I really cannot imagine assuming the liability of using my official position and authority to friend a minor (as in under 18) who was not actually a family friend. Not too smart in my opinion.

 

It is not the role of senior military officers and enlisted to monitor juniors' Facebook or email accounts. There is no model that suggests this is a proper role for seniors (adult or youth) within a military affiliated youth organization.

 

Furthermore, using actual FB posts by minors without their express permission is completely innappropriate. The CAP leaders need to get their heads out of the personal lives of the CAP youth, imho.

[aprilleigh]

??? I am a senior member in CAP and have never seen nor heard of any requirement to monitor cadets' Facebook pages.

 

So was I, and I've never heard of such a thing! That's ridiculous!

[74Heaven]

I don't have a huge problem with the lesson taught thru blocked-out FB posts. Hopefully, it was a good lesson for the youth?

 

FB, as a whole, is an area that youth/young adults are so naive about. Incredible object lesson on privacy settings and the effects of FB posts.

 

However, I do have problem with any adult in an official capacity (i.e. scout leader, teacher) interacting with minors they supervise/teach/pastor, etc. via FB. The organizations we belong to either prohibit it or discourage it as possibly appearing inappropriate, unwise, liability, etc. And I agree a hands-off is better here.

 

Personally, I would not be up in arms. In fact, I'd consider this an extremely valuable life lesson for my child. I tell my kids, if you put something on FB - and let everyone know "your business", don't be surprised when your "business" is misused. Don't be surprised EVER on FB at the twists and turns of innocent postings. (And the internet in general!)

 

I think this may possibly falls into the overall general dad-vs-mom ideas of teaching. Just very, very general here, my wonderful husband would not be thinking about "how this made someone feel" but rather, "would this teach a valuable lesson". Because he isn't around children 24/7 like I am, he isn't thinking about their insecurities, slowly maturing people skills, embarrassing possibilities, etc. My husband is not notoriously insensitive, he just doesn't start there with his thinking process.

 

Btw, we are not involved in CAP and don't know anything about the leadership/mentoring, etc.

 

Lisa j

[74Heaven]

Martha,

 

The more I thought about the ramifications, the more bothered I was. The senior member is a good guy who cares, but who sadly overstepped the mark in this case.

 

:D The wing commander is our next-door neighbor and has known my son since he was six. I invoked my privilege of speaking to him about CAP for the first time in the five years my son has been involved. He says that Facebook monitoring is not official, but is done in the background because of an harassment problem a few years ago and that the senior member should not have done what he did. It will be addressed. Thank goodness.

 

This is kind of what I meant. The leader was well-meaning but made an innocent mistake. The kind of situation where if there is a mistake, but their intentions are honorable - you just either let-it-go (i.e. lesson learned about FB IF not the "best" way); call it a "real life consequence".

 

Lisa J

[Live2Ride]

I'm sorry that it happened and as a parent I'd be a little upset. But, I always tell my kids this: if you post anything online, it can become fodder for someone else. There is nothing private about social media...

 

:grouphug: