WWYD? Putting your teen in a school with a higher percentage of SN students...

[Tap]

First, let me say that I apologize in advance for offending anyone with this question. I have typed and retyped this same question over the past few months and reconsidered posting it, but I can't reconcile this question in my own mind, so I need some help. I don't want to offend anyone with sn kids, but I still need to ask.

 

Second, I want people to understand that I have a gifted student (ds17) and my 5yo is PDD-NOS (likely Aspergers), GAD, SPD and ADHD. I do understand the side of the argument from the special needs students point of view (both having the most advanced student in a typical program and the lowest functioning). I would prefer to not have the sn students needs overwhelm this conversation.

 

 

 

Here is the real question:

 

DD13 attends an amazing private school. She will be in 8th grade in the fall, which is the highest grade the school offers. I would like to see her stay one final year, but I have a problem. Last year, there were 12 kids in her combined 7-8th grade class. 2 of the students were special needs. One has Aspergers, most apparent by a lack of social skills, constant interrupting (off topic/inappropriate topics) and arguing. The other student is diagnosed Oppositional Defiant Disorder...self explanatory. Both of the students work below grade level and the school works with each family to meet the students needs (an amazing aspect of the school). I know the details of the kids conditions due to my own conversations with the parents and dd13s accounts of situations that have occurred.

 

Here is my issue. This class next year, will have 7 students total for the 2 grades combined (more students could enroll but it is unlikely to be more than 1or 2). 2 of the 7, will be these two SN students returning. DD is very compassionate and tries to work with them, but she is still 13 and wants to have a typical school day. She has a good freind for years, who has Aspergers and a sister with Aspergers. She understands the uniqueness of each person's issues and is really forgiving on the social issues. If anyone in the school 'gets it', it is dd13.

 

We are trying to decide if we shoul re-enroll her for fall or not. Last year, it was hard for her on days when she had to work on projects with one of the SN kids, and then come home and deal with her sister too. If it was just at school OR just at home, she would be fine..it is the double whammy that does her in. She feels like she can't just relax sometimes and be a regular kid. She is always having to make accommodations, forgiving (her feelings still get hurt even if she understands they aren't trying to hurt her intentionally), explaining and arguing (both kids are very negative and like to argue constantly). Last year, this issue was occasional and I didn't think twice about it. There were more students that were on grade level to offer balance. BUT this year, there will be so few neurotypical students, that I worry about this ratio. I worry about the lack of grade level collaboration. This school does a lot of group work, and when almost 30% of the students are below grade level, I worry about that affecting her work. I really wonder if she will be properly prepared to do 9th grade level work the following year.

 

 

A few details that I didn't know where to put. The reason enrollment is low is a fluke. Last year half of the class graduated and there is only one student moving up in to 7th grade. One student is leaving the school and that drops it to 6 students enrolling for fall. Since the school stops at 8th grade, it isn't common for students to start the school in 7/8th grade.

 

I know all classrooms have SN kids of varying abilies and issues and I support that 100% (both gifted and delayed). I realize that I will not know what students are in any other school we choose to send her to. My sole concern it the high ratio at this school next year, and the lack of friends/balance on the neurotypical side.

 

Any thoughts on this? Even if you want to call me names and think I am horrible to think this way....maybe I do just need a reality check.

 

 

ETA: answering a question that has came up:

 

What dd wants:

 

She was happily homeschooled until 6th grade when she started this school. We have at least 5 private school options that we can afford (many more that we can't-- large city). I will not consider public as an option for 8th grade. Her choices, in her order of preference 1. try public (I won't allow this one), 2. switch to a private that goes thru highschool 3. stay where she is. 4. come back home.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Tap, tap, tap

[FLDebbie]

Wow, this has got to be a tough decision for both you and your daughter. I have nieces that age and it reminded me that social interactions are a huge reason to motivate girls to go to school at that age.

I have a few of questions that I’d consider before making this decision that come to mind right away. You might have already considered these, but didn’t mention it.

1. What does your daughter think? You said she’s worn out by dealing with SN kids both at school and at home, but does she want to switch schools?

2. Will you switch her to a school where she’ll be until she graduates? I’d think it would be difficult to start a new school in 8th grade and then switch for 9th grade.

3. Is homeschooling her for a year an option?

Good luck with your decision. I’m sure it can’t be an easy one.

[Unicorn.]

I think you should do what's best for your dd academically. I think you have valid concerns. What does your dd want to do?

[Dory]

I don't have a lot to contribute to this conversation except to say that in our town, we have two choices. The public school and the catholic school. The public school has a fairly normal ratio of sn students to not sn students, but the catholic school has a very high percentage of sn students. I know a couple of teachers in that school fairly well and they recommended I not put my kids in there, because all the students end up below grade level because of the higher percentage of sn students. Even the gifted students get pulled down a little because they are helping out with the sn students so much.

 

I don't know if that info helps at all, but it's what popped into my mind when I read your post.

[Tap]

Wow, this has got to be a tough decision for both you and your daughter. I have nieces that age and it reminded me that social interactions are a huge reason to motivate girls to go to school at that age.

I have a few of questions that I’d consider before making this decision that come to mind right away. You might have already considered these, but didn’t mention it.

1. What does your daughter think? You said she’s worn out by dealing with SN kids both at school and at home, but does she want to switch schools?

2. Will you switch her to a school where she’ll be until she graduates? I’d think it would be difficult to start a new school in 8th grade and then switch for 9th grade.

3. Is homeschooling her for a year an option?

Good luck with your decision. I’m sure it can’t be an easy one.

 

She was happily homeschooled until 6th grade when she started this school. We have at least 5 private school options that we can afford (many more that we can't-- large city). I will not consider public as an option for 8th grade. Her choices, in her order of preference 1. try public (I won't allow this one), 2. switch to a private that goes thru highschool 3. stay where she is. 4. come back home.

[EducationX2]

I'm curious what your other options are. I don't think that you are being at all horrible or inconsiderate, and I do believe this is a valid concern. I can see how this would make your DD feel as though she is burning her candle at both ends, so to speak. If you choose not to reenroll at this school, where would she go?

 

I thought that maybe speaking with the school could help, but if your DD were always paired up with the other NT kids, it would eventually be noticed and become an issue. I'm not sure how else the school could help in that regard.

[Tap]

I'm curious what your other options are. I don't think that you are being at all horrible or inconsiderate, and I do believe this is a valid concern. I can see how this would make your DD feel as though she is burning her candle at both ends, so to speak. If you choose not to reenroll at this school, where would she go?

 

I thought that maybe speaking with the school could help, but if your DD were always paired up with the other NT kids, it would eventually be noticed and become an issue. I'm not sure how else the school could help in that regard.

 

She would go to another private if we left this school. We have many choices and are checking them out right now.

 

I have not talked to the school, except the secretary (she and I are friends). She doesn't understand my concerns and feels that the teacher will 'raise the bar' and 'push to to excel'. To me the collaboration of peers is just as important as a teacher's abilies.

 

I was going to talk to the teacher or principal but honestly, there isn't anything they can do to affect the ratio...it is, what it is. For the school to meet the two SN kids needs, they need to do work with neuotypical kids. I can't imagine either the teacher or principal saying anything that would furture reduce the number of NT students. LOL I doubt either of them would say we should leave.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Tap, tap, tap

[6wildhorses]

I feel for your daughter because I've been in a similar situation. I taught music at a very small private school, and I loved it the first year. The second year there were more students with special needs. I loved all the kids and have a special place in my heart for kids who struggle. But it was very difficult because I have a son who has Down Syndrome, and it wore on me to help the kids at school and to then have enough left for my son after school. It also didn't help that the school did not inform me about the special needs until I asked or give me any support. When classes are that small the entire dynamic changes when even one student joins or leaves. My lessons the second year had to be changed to fit the group dynamic, and I struggled because students were added during the year, making it even harder. If I were you I would explore all options for the upcoming year and talk with my child about what the best fit is academically and emotionally.

[Jennifer3141]

Have you spoken to your DD? What does she want to do? 13 is old enough IMO to have some say in whether she thinks she can handle this class or not.

[Tap]

Have you spoken to your DD? What does she want to do? 13 is old enough IMO to have some say in whether she thinks she can handle this class or not.

 

Her choices, in her order of preference 1. try public (I won't allow this one) 2. switch to a private that goes thru highschool 3. stay where she is 4. come back home.

[IsabelC]

I would give your daughter the choice between the options that are acceptable to you and go with what she wants. And she should not feel obliged to stay in a class where she isn't happy and learning, just as a service to the SN kids who need 'normal' kids to be with. School is meant to be mainly for the purpose of education, not a service project.

 

However, I was also wondering, couldn't she just request not to be paired up with the SN kids for projects? If you/she explained that she is feeling overwhelmed from helping the aspie kids at school and then coming home to deal with her SN sibling, perhaps the teacher could subtly try to get the SN kids working with those NT classmates who don't have the double whammy situation to cope with?

[Kathryn]

From what you've said, I'd find a new private school where she can be until she graduates.

 

ODS has high functioning autism, is incredibly defiant, and pretty smart. I will not put him in school both for his own benefit and that of others. He would be held back academically by being placed according to age and by having to have his behavior dealt with, and other students would be held back by his behavior.

 

:grouphug:

[Starr]

If she's going to be in a private school for high school I would put her there now. It will be easier or the teachers to track her into the right classes if she starts now.

[justasque]

Her choices, in her order of preference 1. try public (I won't allow this one) 2. switch to a private that goes thru highschool 3. stay where she is 4. come back home.

 

That sounds like a sensible list. She's thought it through.

 

If she's going to be in a private school for high school I would put her there now. It will be easier or the teachers to track her into the right classes if she starts now.

 

:iagree:

8th grade is important. Ideally, she will exit 8th with all the skills - academic, social, organizational - needed to succeed in high school. Realistically, that's going to be harder to get if she stays where she is. I would figure out where you want her for high school first. If that school also does 8th, then that's probably a good choice. If not, then figure out what "feeder" school might be a good fit for 8th.

[KungFuPanda]

You may want to consider that moving to another class won't erase your daughter's problem. So many group situations in life have outliers . . .those one or two people that complicate things and make it more challenging to get through the day. Yes, life would be easier without them, but to successfully cope with them can teach you a great deal about yourself and the world. Meeting this challenge and thriving could prepare your daughter to meet a whole world of difficult people head-on instead of always looking for an escape hatch.

 

If her basic education is suffering, that's one thing, but if this is just an annoyance ("It's a nice class, but it would be perfect IF . . .") you might want to let her know that she could be trading for a whole different type of annoyance in another situation.

[Tap]

You may want to consider that moving to another class won't erase your daughter's problem. So many group situations in life have outliers . . .those one or two people that complicate things and make it more challenging to get through the day. Yes, life would be easier without them, but to successfully cope with them can teach you a great deal about yourself and the world. Meeting this challenge and thriving could prepare your daughter to meet a whole world of difficult people head-on instead of always looking for an escape hatch.

 

If her basic education is suffering, that's one thing, but if this is just an annoyance ("It's a nice class, but it would be perfect IF . . .") you might want to let her know that she could be trading for a whole different type of annoyance in another situation.

 

:iagree: We are aware that we are trading known problems, for unknown ones.

 

Having a few outliers isn't a problem. Even in a class of 12, with 10 neurotypical kids, having 2 SN, was doable and the class did fine. It is just that now there are going to be 5 NT kids and still 2 SN.

[justasque]

You may want to consider that moving to another class won't erase your daughter's problem....

If her basic education is suffering, that's one thing, but if this is just an annoyance ("It's a nice class, but it would be perfect IF . . .") you might want to let her know that she could be trading for a whole different type of annoyance in another situation.

 

Yes, challenging circumstances can be an opportunity for growth, but as I read it, the OP seems to feel that the balance is off for her daughter. It doesn't sound like it's just an annoyance.

[staceyobu]

I think I would look at moving her now to a school she can graduate from.

 

Reasons I think this:

1. You are going to have to make a transition to something else anyways.

2. Your daughter would prefer to make that move now.

3. You are already thinking there will be problems next year. It is hard to deal with problems when you are starting out unsure if it's the right choice.

4. You have a unique family situation (as does everyone) with dynamics that may make it more difficult for your dd to deal with the school situation.

5. I agree that the balance of students in the class sounds like it could be a bad thing.

6. I think your post sounds to me like you *want* to put her somewhere else. You may just want permission to do that and not feel like a jerk. I think you should give yourself that permission.

 

HTH. That's a hard spot to be in. Good luck with figuring it out!

[Mom0012]

I think I would look at moving her now to a school she can graduate from.

 

Reasons I think this:

1. You are going to have to make a transition to something else anyways.

2. Your daughter would prefer to make that move now.

3. You are already thinking there will be problems next year. It is hard to deal with problems when you are starting out unsure if it's the right choice.

4. You have a unique family situation (as does everyone) with dynamics that may make it more difficult for your dd to deal with the school situation.

5. I agree that the balance of students in the class sounds like it could be a bad thing.

6. I think your post sounds to me like you *want* to put her somewhere else. You may just want permission to do that and not feel like a jerk. I think you should give yourself that permission.

 

HTH. That's a hard spot to be in. Good luck with figuring it out!

 

This sounds like it might make the most sense, if you can find a school that she can go into at this grade level and graduate from. Alternatively, I might ask that she not be paired with the SN kids for projects. If the 2 SN children are working at the same level, it might make sense for them to be paired together. At any rate, if I wanted her to stay at the school, I would discuss this with the teacher. It would bother me as well.

 

Lisa

[Chris in VA]

I'd switch her to another private school now. IF you can get in at this late date. Will that be a problem? Many of ours are filled up by the Spring. They have their "round ups" in February and start enrolling new students in March.

 

Another thing--I'd try to find somewhere that has a better percentage of on-level students. 30% below level is high to me, and not necessarily an indication of an "amazing" private school. I do understand if they have a larger than average proportion of SN kids, but still, that's high.

[Tap]

I'd switch her to another private school now. IF you can get in at this late date. Will that be a problem? Many of ours are filled up by the Spring. They have their "round ups" in February and start enrolling new students in March.

 

Another thing--I'd try to find somewhere that has a better percentage of on-level students. 30% below level is high to me, and not necessarily an indication of an "amazing" private school. I do understand if they have a larger than average proportion of SN kids, but still, that's high.

 

The regular classrooms don't have this percentage, it is just an odd year in this particular classroom. The classes in the school are small and I would say each class has 1 SN child per 15 kids. Both of these kids came to this school in middle school because they were struggling in other middle schools. Actually the inclusion of SN kids is one of the strengths of this school. Every student brings something great to the class. The school allows kids to move up or down to appropriate grade levels for each subject, as appropriate within classrooms. Teachers make individual accommodations for each student as needed. There is a high amount of one-on-one instruction.

 

The economy is bad in our area so there are openings in most private schools here.

[Tap]

I'd switch.

 

I've btdt, and realized that my son also has the right to an education and to having his emotional needs met. Since there is always a 1:1 aide for each sped student plus a sped teacher aside from the main classroom teacher and the specialist push ins, his use as a partner for the sped child that continually requested him was not missed. It was getting reaaaalllly awkward, as the romance years had started and he was not interested in the partner in that way. One of the big changes that was made courtesy of parent input here was to have the sped children pair with each other and the reg ed partner with each other at times instead of always sped/reg ed pairing.

 

Thanks. I do agree that the emotional needs of each student is important.

[Princess Peach]

Staying at this school is third on your DD's list of 4 options. That's pretty low, IMO. I'd move her to a new school where she can stay for the duration. I know you said you're checking the schools out. Be sure to meet with the administration and ask these questions. Your DD needs to have her needs met in school.

[Tap]

Staying at this school is third on your DD's list of 4 options. That's pretty low, IMO. I'd move her to a new school where she can stay for the duration. I know you said you're checking the schools out. Be sure to meet with the administration and ask these questions. Your DD needs to have her needs met in school.

 

LOL I grill admin at schools when I am checking them out. LOL

 

She visited two schools last year and spent a day at each. One is too expensive for us, we were hoping for financial aide but we didn't get it (they ran out of funds before they got to her). The other is a great school, but not the right choice for her.

[Princess Peach]

LOL I grill admin at schools when I am checking them out. LOL

 

She visited two schools last year and spent a day at each. One is too expensive for us, we were hoping for financial aide but we didn't get it (they ran out of funds before they got to her). The other is a great school, but not the right choice for her.

 

Good. :001_smile: I just meant that you shouldn't feel apprehensive about discussing the issue, as you were about posting it here. There is nothing wrong with getting your DD's needs met, just as the SN kids need to get their needs met, kwim? I hope you find the right school for her soon. :001_smile:

[Parrothead]

If she's going to be in a private school for high school I would put her there now. It will be easier or the teachers to track her into the right classes if she starts now.

:iagree:

[Crimson Wife]

I don't think I would enroll a student in such a small class unless there was a compelling reason to do so. Personality conflicts get magnified in that kind of environment regardless of SN. 13 is a clique-y age to begin with, and having a slightly larger class means more opportunities to find one's niche.

[Tap]

Here is a BIG OLE kick in the pants for me. LOL

 

I just decided to apply for a position at a school that I can't afford, so that if I got the job, I am hoping that the tuition differential would make it doable.

 

The kick.....the job, is working with special needs middle schoolers! LOLOLOL

[EthiopianFood]

Here is a BIG OLE kick in the pants for me. LOL

 

I just decided to apply for a position at a school that I can't afford, so that if I got the job, I am hoping that the tuition differential would make it doable.

 

The kick.....the job, is working with special needs middle schoolers! LOLOLOL

 

That will teach YOU to judge!! :lol:

 

I also vote new school. If it can't happen, it sounds like the academic year would be a waste if she stays, so I would homeschool her against her preferences. It would only be one year, and she would likely be very glad not to be behind come high school. Hopefully, a suitable private school will reveal itself to you!

[Denisemomof4]

Wow. That is a DIFFICULT situation.

 

Understanding dd5's issues from our conversations, I would think it a better idea to find a different private school. My dd, same age, is very resilient, has a HUGE heaetrt for SN people of all ages, and always was the one to stick up for SN kids who were bullied during her 1.5 year of school. It is very different to be regularly bullied/tested/stressed out in the home by the SN kid. Living with a RAD who has similar issues to your dd5, I understand the situation and feel that dd12 should get a break while away at school. My boys became MUCH more tolerant of dd9 when they went to school so they could get a break from her.

 

Also, a private school should afford the opportunities of a higher education. IMO it is not acceptable to question whether or not dd12 will be ready for 9th grade after private school placement no matter what the circumstance.

 

One other thing to consider is the age. This may be a difficult year for your dd emotionally just because it is a huge time of change, physically, emotionally and and hormonally. I would try to find a situation less stressful where you feel more confident it will prepare academically for high school.

[Denisemomof4]

Here is a BIG OLE kick in the pants for me. LOL

 

I just decided to apply for a position at a school that I can't afford, so that if I got the job, I am hoping that the tuition differential would make it doable.

 

The kick.....the job, is working with special needs middle schoolers! LOLOLOL

 

:svengo: :tongue_smilie:

 

 

Keep us posted!