Yes, another writing thread.

[~Amanda~]

I'm still going back and forth; not really sure what to do this year, not really sure what to do afterwards either. I really want to do WWS; I am also loving the look of LTOW. I have already started collecting CW for Older beginners.

 

I have a DS in 6th and a DD in 7th. I'm not sure what to do for my DS. Either I can do WWS with both DS and DD; then next year start with CW? or LTOW? or I can do WWS with DS and CW with DD? Neither one have what I would call an intensive writing background as I imagine most classically trained homeschoolers would have at this age. They were in PS for the first 4-5 years, and the last 2 years have been a mess really lol.

 

Assuming they are both beginners, where would you start them?

[Chrysalis Academy]

One thing that might help relieve your angst - help you decide what is right for *your* kids - would be to listen to SWB's writing lecture for the middle grades. See if that resonates with you, if it sounds right to you, if you can see you and your kids implementing writing that way. If so, then WWS might be the right thing for you. WWS is what *I* would do in your situation, but make sure it feel right to you. Anyway, here is the link to the audio lecture:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/store/audio-products/audio-lectures.html

[~Amanda~]

I continually go back to those lectures. I need some PP! lol

[lewelma]

You can also consider what you like as the teacher and the amount of time you think you will have. WWS is written to the student. Homer for older beginners needs hand holding (although the next year Maxim/Chreia is written to the student). LToW is basically scripted, but you are not supposed to just read it. The scripts are supposed to teach you how to lead the discussion about how to think.

 

Also, perhaps think about what skills your dc are lacking. WWS focuses on outlining, chronological narratives and descriptions of historical and scientific subjects, literary analysis, and research skills. Homer for older beginners teaches summary skills, literary analysis, critical reading, applied grammar, and vocabulary using myths and some nonfiction narratives. LToW teaches students how to think of arguments for persuasive writing.

 

All three spend time on arrangement (structuring your writing) and on style/elocution. Homer spends much more time than WWS or LToW on elocution (improving sentence structure, vocabulary, grammar etc).

 

HTH,

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited July 24, 2012 by lewelma

[Colleen in NS]

I'm still going back and forth; not really sure what to do this year, not really sure what to do afterwards either. I really want to do WWS; I am also loving the look of LTOW. I have already started collecting CW for Older beginners.

 

I have a DS in 6th and a DD in 7th. I'm not sure what to do for my DS. Either I can do WWS with both DS and DD; then next year start with CW? or LTOW? or I can do WWS with DS and CW with DD? Neither one have what I would call an intensive writing background as I imagine most classically trained homeschoolers would have at this age. They were in PS for the first 4-5 years, and the last 2 years have been a mess really lol.

 

Assuming they are both beginners, where would you start them?

 

WWS. I think it's perfect for the situation you describe. Besides, you really want to use it! :D

 

You can also consider what you like as the teacher and the amount of time you think you will have. WWS is written to the student. Homer for older beginners needs hand holding (although the next year Maxim/Chreia is written to the student). LToW is basically scripted, but you are not supposed to just read it. The scripts are supposed to teach you how to lead the discussion about how to think.

 

WWS also has teacher guidance, with discussions that you lead the student in. Through those, the teacher learns how to lead discussion, and the student learns how to think through the material.

 

Also, perhaps think about what skills your dc are lacking. WWS focuses on outlining, chronological narratives and descriptions of historical and scientific subjects, literary analysis, and research skills. Homer for older beginners teaches summary skills, literary analysis, critical reading, applied grammar, and vocabulary using myths and some nonfiction narratives. LToW teaches students how to think of arguments for persuasive writing.

 

WWS also teaches summary skills, which in turn help the student to develop critical reading skills. It also assumes that you are also using a grammar program, and thus it guides the teacher in remembering to correct papers for grammar and mechanics (presumably for skills already learned that just now need to be applied properly in the student's writing).

 

All three spend time on arrangement (structuring your writing) and on style/elocution. Homer spends much more time than WWS or LToW on elocution (improving sentence structure, vocabulary, grammar etc).

 

HTH,

 

Ruth in NZ

 

OP, your dd can still go on to use WWS 2 when it comes out. If WWS 3 isn't quite out by the time your dd is done WWS 2, she could (1) sign up to be a WWS 3 beta tester :D, (2) practice, across the curriculum, all the skills she'll have learned so far in WWS 1 and 2, or (3) use a different writing program.

 

I'm a huge fan of PHP products, esp. for beginners, unsure students, unskilled students, and unsure Moms. :D

[Another Lynn]

Each one of the programs you've listed have great features. You can choose any one of them and immediately say, "I'm so glad I chose xyz because it will do this, and this, and this for us." But, you need to figure out which one you will be able to implement the most successfully. For example, I loved the idea of LTOW. I totally got their philosophy behind it and it made sense to me. But it also required too much of me. I'm not a "natural teacher." There are other children and stresses in my life.... I need more open and go. I want to faciliate more than teach. LTOW never got off the ground here.

 

I'm not trying to talk you out of LTOW, just giving you an example of my own experience. Sometimes I have to give up the glorious signature (:lol:) and just use what will get done. I would look at samples of each one as closely as you can and ask yourself, do I know what to do day1 ? day 2? day 3? etc. If it feels too murky, move on to something else.

[ChaosRevisited]

Sorry if this is hijacking your thread, but I am trying to choose between CW and WWS as well. I've previously taught Homer for Older Beginners and actually own both programs. However, my rising 5th grader also is coming into homeschooling from public school, and he's just an average student who is more math/science inclined. After reading through multiple threads here about WWS, I was worried it might be too difficult to implement easily in his situation. This year, he needs a good foundation that is not terribly time intensive for me as his teacher. I am looking at either CW Aesop B or WWS combined with Sentence Composing. I will also probably use JAG for grammar.

 

I can totally relate to Another Lynn's comments: "There are other children and stresses in my life.... I need more open and go. I want to faciliate more than teach.... Sometimes I have to ... just use what will get done."

 

So which of those two would fit with that philosophy/need?

[Another Lynn]

Sorry if this is hijacking your thread, but I am trying to choose between CW and WWS as well. I've previously taught Homer for Older Beginners and actually own both programs. However, my rising 5th grader also is coming into homeschooling from public school, and he's just an average student who is more math/science inclined. After reading through multiple threads here about WWS, I was worried it might be too difficult to implement easily in his situation. This year, he needs a good foundation that is not terribly time intensive for me as his teacher. I am looking at either CW Aesop B or WWS combined with Sentence Composing. I will also probably use JAG for grammar.

 

I can totally relate to Another Lynn's comments: "There are other children and stresses in my life.... I need more open and go. I want to faciliate more than teach.... Sometimes I have to ... just use what will get done."

 

So which of those two would fit with that philosophy/need?

 

If you've already taught CW, than that may work great for you. My oldest wrote "written narrations" for years and I seemed unable to figure out how to move us from that rut to other types of writing. After resisting IEW for years, I finally admitted defeat and tried it. One of the Student Writing Intensive programs might be a good idea for a more math/science student and a Mom who doesn't want time intensive for herself. WWS could also be great.... we were just getting impatient and burned out on narrations which it seemed to be built on.... and it felt tedious (ducking). But there were parts of the sample that looked fantastic and I sometimes wish we had persevered. So, that's why I say you've got to figure out what you can implement.

 

And thinking back to the original post, I suppose if I had two somewhat beginners, I would start with WWS or IEW, but then I personally don't want to do the work required to teach LTOW or CW.... so that may not be your situation. Also, I would definitely add "Friday Freewrites" (there are topics available on the Brave Writer blog - or you can come up with your own) or some variation. I think one of the best things for my oldest was the semester I gave up on curricula and had him just write something everyday, anything he wanted. And if he didn't have a topic ready I had a list for him to choose from. Just getting the pen to paper over and over again without blood, sweat, and tears was a good thing.

[ChaosRevisited]

Thanks! Good advice to mull over. :)

 

I love the idea of just writing to gain fluency. If my life was just a little less crazy, I'd love to come up with my own writing plan that mixed ideas from a lot of the programs and other resources I've acquired over the years.... maybe with my youngest two. :)

 

I will definitely look at IEW. I haven't looked at it in a long time, and it may be what we need this year.

[dancer67]

What is LTOW??:confused:(I thought I knew all the abbreviations)

 

And with the WWS series, how many will there be, and I was under the impression it was for middle schoolers only. This can be used for a high school writing program? Meaning if you have a 7th or 8th grader that can write well, but needs to learn how to outline, do essays, literary anlaysis, and research reports.((confused))

[~Amanda~]

ltow=lost tools of writing.

 

i think the hope is SWB comes out w/a new writing instructional each year, extending into hs?

[Chrysalis Academy]

The plan with WWS was that there be one a year, but I believe that WWS 2 won't be available till Spring. Not sure about the adjusted release dates for future volumes.

 

It is designed as a Logic Stage writing program, and many are using it with 7th and 8th graders, who need to develop the exact skills you describe.

[PeterPan]

What is LTOW??:confused:(I thought I knew all the abbreviations)

 

And with the WWS series, how many will there be, and I was under the impression it was for middle schoolers only. This can be used for a high school writing program? Meaning if you have a 7th or 8th grader that can write well, but needs to learn how to outline, do essays, literary anlaysis, and research reports.((confused))

 

SWB used it with her middle ds when he was in 9th. Good enough for him, good enough for us. :)

[PeterPan]

Sorry if this is hijacking your thread, but I am trying to choose between CW and WWS as well. I've previously taught Homer for Older Beginners and actually own both programs. However, my rising 5th grader also is coming into homeschooling from public school, and he's just an average student who is more math/science inclined. After reading through multiple threads here about WWS, I was worried it might be too difficult to implement easily in his situation. This year, he needs a good foundation that is not terribly time intensive for me as his teacher. I am looking at either CW Aesop B or WWS combined with Sentence Composing. I will also probably use JAG for grammar.

 

I can totally relate to Another Lynn's comments: "There are other children and stresses in my life.... I need more open and go. I want to faciliate more than teach.... Sometimes I have to ... just use what will get done."

 

So which of those two would fit with that philosophy/need?

 

Lewelma made a really good observation in another thread on writing, where she pointed out that CW is having them work with *fiction* models and WWS uses more variety. SWB intentionally hits all the genres (history, science, etc.). Engagement really matters for some kids, and it might be that for your little science lover the use of non-fiction models in WWS would be helpful.

 

You made the comment about creating things yourself. You know sometimes that's good, and it used to be it was BETTER. But SWB has really done a good job this time. It's sort of the job you would have done if you had had the time. Don't reinvent the wheel if it's already been done, kwim? :)

[ChaosRevisited]

Lewelma made a really good observation in another thread on writing, where she pointed out that CW is having them work with *fiction* models and WWS uses more variety. SWB intentionally hits all the genres (history, science, etc.). Engagement really matters for some kids, and it might be that for your little science lover the use of non-fiction models in WWS would be helpful.

 

You made the comment about creating things yourself. You know sometimes that's good, and it used to be it was BETTER. But SWB has really done a good job this time. It's sort of the job you would have done if you had had the time. Don't reinvent the wheel if it's already been done, kwim? :)

 

Maybe I should have my ds do a week or so in each program this summer to see what clicks with him.

 

I agree about not reinventing the wheel, particularly at this time in my life. :) In fact, this year I am looking mostly for open-and-go efficiency as much as possible without sacrificing meaningful education. I do love CW, but I'm not sure it will work for my schedule this year. I also love the idea of my little guy becoming more self-educated as he gets older (not this year) which WWS seems to lead towards. CW seems to remain fairly teacher-intensive even as the student progresses, and I find myself wondering if we really need all that CW offers in the upper levels.

[1Togo]

nm

Edited July 27, 2012 by 1Togo

[justamouse]

I'm using Classical Comp Chreia/Maxim for my 7th. I think it may be a bit below where he's working, but I'm ok with that, we'll just move more quickly through it. I'm aiming for LToW for 9th. OR, if we love it, we may stick with it.

 

I tried Classical Writing. I really can't express how it did NOT work for us.

Edited July 27, 2012 by justamouse

[1Togo]

justamouse,

 

If CC Maxim/Chreia is below your son's level, then he can easily handle LToW. We worked through LToW in 7th grade. You could do 9 weeks of Maxim and 9 weeks of Chreia, and then move into LToW mid-year if you want.

 

1togo

[justamouse]

justamouse,

 

If CC Maxim/Chreia is below your son's level, then he can easily handle LToW. We worked through LToW in 7th grade. You could do 9 weeks of Maxim and 9 weeks of Chreia, and then move into LToW mid-year if you want.

 

1togo

 

Ohh thank you for this! I can't really get a grasp of what's what with the samples, so I was going to take a shot in the dark with it.

[1Togo]

Also, I think putting LToW after Maxim/Chreia is a good fit if you want to do both the progym and LToW.

[justamouse]

Also, I think putting LToW after Maxim/Chreia is a good fit if you want to do both the progym and LToW.

 

Good to know!