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Project Based Homeschooling: Directing Self Learners


threedogfarm
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This is a new book, written by Lori Pickert. I searched the hive for info on her and I just got one thread on her. Has anyone read this book? I like following Annie's blog Bird and Little Bird and she wrote about it today on her Library Monday at http://birdandlittlebird.typepad.com/blog/

 

If you have read this book then what is your opinion of it? Or has anyone else explored project based learning? I am always hesitant to jump on the latest and greatest ideas because everything out there can seem interesting at first but may be just repackaged or not worthwhile.

 

This year my son would love to do do a "unit" on World War II because he is so interested in it (the types of planes used, the submarines, etc.). He knows more about it than most high school students but I have been hesitant in putting it all together because I want it to be about HIS interest in the topic and not what I think he should get out of it. He's already approached this as a rabbit hole but he would love this to be a "subject" (above and beyond history) that he's doing in school. I think that he should do most of the planning and legwork for this subject (or "unit") but I don't know how to guide him with this process (without taking it over and doing it my way). This method seems like it might have some answers for me. . .any thoughts?

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Here are my fragmented thoughts....

 

I've been following her blog for quite a while now... Camp Creek blog.. you can read it to get a feel for her philosophy... her book is on my Goodreads To Read list...

 

I happen to adore project driven learning... but I don't feel the need to have our entire schooling done in that way... but its definitely our favorite part of learning. Another poster had posted the idea of Great Brain projects which I adore and have a structured element to them.... I think I'm going to combine this idea with Lori's project learning..

 

Some of my favorite posts by her are the ones that tell you how to keep a journal to keep track of your child's questions, etc so that you can help facilitate learning around these "sparks"...

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PBL doesn't need to be done in a group... It can be an individual thing...

In fact most of our projects are individual efforts...

 

 

What do your projects look like? Is it just reading and then reporting? Do you require some sort of essay or paper or poster board? Powerpoint presentation? Dioramas?

 

In trying to wrap my mind around the idea, I can't get over the speed bump of what I should ask from them/teach them how to show what they've learned.

 

Are there books/blogs/websites that you would recommend for a noob like me to get started?

 

Thanks for any help. I have been thinking on this for a while now, and I guess I am a little scared to just jump in with out some sort of support or resource to fall back on.

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Lori has a new blog, which you will see when you visit her old blog:

http://www.whiteoakschool.com/

 

She hasn't transferred all of the amazing blog posts to her new blog, which is why I'm referring you to her old one. Look at the sidebar on the right hand side and she has a whole wack load of AMAZING posts which describe her definition of project based learning...

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What do your projects look like? Is it just reading and then reporting? Do you require some sort of essay or paper or poster board? Powerpoint presentation? Dioramas?

 

 

 

Up till now, my son's projects have been very loosey goosey.... i haven't 'required' anything of him. I've suggested little elements such as related artworks, a little paper (he's young)....

 

 

I guess I am a little scared to just jump in with out some sort of support or resource to fall back on.

But this doesn't have to be the bulk of your learning, if you are not confident enough to test this out... I allot time after our more formal corework is done for project work... I think I differ from other PBL advocates in that I don't think it needs to be ALL child-driven or not at all.... you can compartmentalize your time to allow for child-driven learning...

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Up till now, my son's projects have been very loosey goosey.... i haven't 'required' anything of him. I've suggested little elements such as related artworks, a little paper (he's young)....

 

 

But this doesn't have to be the bulk of your learning, if you are not confident enough to test this out... I allot time after our more formal corework is done for project work... I think I differ from other PBL advocates in that I don't think it needs to be ALL child-driven or not at all.... you can compartmentalize your time to allow for child-driven learning...

 

 

Thank you. This actually helps me quite a bit. :001_smile:

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What do your projects look like? Is it just reading and then reporting? Do you require some sort of essay or paper or poster board? Powerpoint presentation? Dioramas?

 

In trying to wrap my mind around the idea, I can't get over the speed bump of what I should ask from them/teach them how to show what they've learned.

I think this is where interest-led/project-based learning often goes off the rails — parents take a child's interest and try to turn it into a public-school-type "lesson," and then they're surprised when the child totally loses interest. Teachers require papers/posters/quizzes/whatever because they have 30 kids in a class and that sort of "output" provides a way of assessing 30 kids and assigning grades. As homeschoolers, we don't have that problem — we can "assess" what our kids know just by talking to them. :001_smile:

 

I'll give you an example of a project we did on birds a couple of years ago. DD & DS started watching an online "owl cam" and became fascinated with owls. We got some books on owls from the library, and I ordered some owl pellets for them to dissect. Dissecting the pellets led to research on food chains, and discussions on the relationship between predators and prey in an ecosystem. DS read a book about a biologist who had a pet owl for many years, and DD started reading the Guardians of Ga'Hoole (sp?) books. This led to a wider interest in birds, so we got books on birds, did lots of birdwatching, went to the zoo to see some exotic birds, watched Attenborough's Life of Birds series, watched a documentary on the relationship between birds & dinosaurs, and read about the mechanics of flight. We got some books on Audubon and DS drew lots of different kinds of birds (especially local ones), while DD prefered a coloring book of Audubon's drawings. We "dissected" a roasting chicken. We read about eggs, and DD colored a page that showed the stages of development in an egg. When they were "done" with birds, we moved on to the next interest.

 

The kids learned a TON, and there was no need to turn it into a "school project" with schedules and worksheets and essays and quizzes. I knew what they were learning because I was right there doing it and discussing it with them.

 

Jackie

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But this doesn't have to be the bulk of your learning, if you are not confident enough to test this out... I allot time after our more formal corework is done for project work... I think I differ from other PBL advocates in that I don't think it needs to be ALL child-driven or not at all.... you can compartmentalize your time to allow for child-driven learning...

:iagree:

We do math, Latin, & Greek in the mornings, using standard curricula. History and science (as well as things like art, programming, robotics/electronics, etc.) are entirely interest-led/project-based, and are not restricted to "school time." We read, discuss, watch documentaries & Teaching Co lectures, visit museums, go on field trips, do projects, etc., on evenings, weekends, and vacations, not just afternoons on "school days."

 

Jackie

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I think this is where interest-led/project-based learning often goes off the rails — parents take a child's interest and try to turn it into a public-school-type "lesson," and then they're surprised when the child totally loses interest. Teachers require papers/posters/quizzes/whatever because they have 30 kids in a class and that sort of "output" provides a way of assessing 30 kids and assigning grades. As homeschoolers, we don't have that problem — we can "assess" what our kids know just by talking to them. :001_smile:

 

I'll give you an example of a project we did on birds a couple of years ago. DD & DS started watching an online "owl cam" and became fascinated with owls. We got some books on owls from the library, and I ordered some owl pellets for them to dissect. Dissecting the pellets led to research on food chains, and discussions on the relationship between predators and prey in an ecosystem. DS read a book about a biologist who had a pet owl for many years, and DD started reading the Guardians of Ga'Hoole (sp?) books. This led to a wider interest in birds, so we got books on birds, did lots of birdwatching, went to the zoo to see some exotic birds, watched Attenborough's Life of Birds series, watched a documentary on the relationship between birds & dinosaurs, and read about the mechanics of flight. We got some books on Audubon and DS drew lots of different kinds of birds (especially local ones), while DD prefered a coloring book of Audubon's drawings. We "dissected" a roasting chicken. We read about eggs, and DD colored a page that showed the stages of development in an egg. When they were "done" with birds, we moved on to the next interest.

 

The kids learned a TON, and there was no need to turn it into a "school project" with schedules and worksheets and essays and quizzes. I knew what they were learning because I was right there doing it and discussing it with them.

 

Jackie

 

Great post, thanks for sharing! I really want to move more in this direction, but part of me doesn't feel like I can drop our other "scheduled" subjects while going down the self directed project trail b/c I don't want to leave holes or gaps in knowledge. Meanwhile, the other part of me knows it would be worth while and the knowledge and skills they gain working on a project would likely stay with them longer.

I really just need to stop fighting with myself and focus on adding more hours to the day...:tongue_smilie:

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Great post, thanks for sharing! I really want to move more in this direction, but part of me doesn't feel like I can drop our other "scheduled" subjects while going down the self directed project trail b/c I don't want to leave holes or gaps in knowledge. Meanwhile, the other part of me knows it would be worth while and the knowledge and skills they gain working on a project would likely stay with them longer.

Gaps are inevitable — no one can know everything about everything. :)

 

IMHO, it's more effective for kids to learn — and actually understand and remember — the chunks of history and science that really interest them, rather than trying to cram in "everything" and have them only retain a small percentage of it (often without real understanding). They'll go over all the same subjects again in middle school, and then in HS, and then in college, filling in the "gaps" as they go. Does it really matter if kids know lots about birds and not much about fish in elementary school? Or that a 7th grader has a college-level knowledge of ancient Greece but only a vague idea about the Russian Revolution? Does that mean he'll be incapable of understanding the Russian revolution when he studies it in HS? Of course not. ;)

 

Jackie

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I'm moving into a somewhat child-led project-based learning for my middle child. He is highly creative and a VSL and learns best that way. I've chosen the topics and books. The plan is for him to read them and take that information and come up with a project about the topic. With his creativity I think this will work out well and when I asked him about this idea he was quite interested. He asked if he could even do a project on the computer. He will be doing this for history and some of his science. We are also doing a family project for geography so that isn't really child-led at all.

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This is all so very, very interesting. Mo will be starting first grade at a new project-based learning public charter school, and there is a big parent commitment, so I'm interested to see how that plays out in a classroom, and what I can apply to Miss P's homeschooling. At this point, I'd say we're heavily leaning toward interest-led (but structured) learning in science, literature and history (I'm kind of trying to apply what I've been learning from some of the great interest-lead learning threads of the past few months, and 8FilltheHeart's description of how she creates courses for her dc, based on a topic or area of interest to them). I'm not sure if, whether, or how to translate that into "project-based learning".

 

One thing Miss P and I have decided on is that we are going to try having Fridays be "Autodidact Day" at our house. They have always been kind of a light, catch up or random school day for her, because I work on Fridays. We've decided that instead of me assigning her random things to do on her own, she will dedicate the day to learning things she is interested in (initially using materials I've provided). She will be required to do math - but it's LOF, which she does independently and loves. Other than that, she will be able to choose to read, write, or study freely, as she wills. She is interested in creative writing, so I've gotten her The Creative Writer, and she can do that Fridays if she wants to. She is obsessed with horses, and wants to learn more about them, and has already devoured every book in our public library, so I'm getting her the Equine Science program, and she can work on that. Or not. The point being that these are things *she* is interested in, and so rather than trying to take them and incorporate them into school, I'm trying to create space for her to self-learn, self-teach these things that she has a passion for. I will still provide structured learning the other 4 days a week, in the subjects I know are important (after consulting her interests in the content areas), which she wants - she loves learning together, and isn't necessarily looking for independence at this point.

 

I guess part of my goal with this is to begin the process of the gradual handoff of responsibility for self-teaching. By the end of high school, I want to have a student who is fully competent to successfully learn anything or anywhere she wants to. But I think this is a gradual process, for us at least. But if I don't start now, we won't get anywhere, KWIM?

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I think this is where interest-led/project-based learning often goes off the rails — parents take a child's interest and try to turn it into a public-school-type "lesson," and then they're surprised when the child totally loses interest. Teachers require papers/posters/quizzes/whatever because they have 30 kids in a class and that sort of "output" provides a way of assessing 30 kids and assigning grades. As homeschoolers, we don't have that problem — we can "assess" what our kids know just by talking to them. :001_smile:

 

I'll give you an example of a project we did on birds a couple of years ago. DD & DS started watching an online "owl cam" and became fascinated with owls. We got some books on owls from the library, and I ordered some owl pellets for them to dissect. Dissecting the pellets led to research on food chains, and discussions on the relationship between predators and prey in an ecosystem. DS read a book about a biologist who had a pet owl for many years, and DD started reading the Guardians of Ga'Hoole (sp?) books. This led to a wider interest in birds, so we got books on birds, did lots of birdwatching, went to the zoo to see some exotic birds, watched Attenborough's Life of Birds series, watched a documentary on the relationship between birds & dinosaurs, and read about the mechanics of flight. We got some books on Audubon and DS drew lots of different kinds of birds (especially local ones), while DD prefered a coloring book of Audubon's drawings. We "dissected" a roasting chicken. We read about eggs, and DD colored a page that showed the stages of development in an egg. When they were "done" with birds, we moved on to the next interest.

 

The kids learned a TON, and there was no need to turn it into a "school project" with schedules and worksheets and essays and quizzes. I knew what they were learning because I was right there doing it and discussing it with them.

 

Jackie

 

I think this is awesome. How does it work in your day to day schooling? Do you still do daily stuff like Math and Language Arts? Do you have a time in your day set aside as "project time" or do you all work on it whenever the mood strikes?

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I think this is where interest-led/project-based learning often goes off the rails — parents take a child's interest and try to turn it into a public-school-type "lesson," and then they're surprised when the child totally loses interest. Teachers require papers/posters/quizzes/whatever because they have 30 kids in a class and that sort of "output" provides a way of assessing 30 kids and assigning grades. As homeschoolers, we don't have that problem — we can "assess" what our kids know just by talking to them. :001_smile:

 

I'll give you an example of a project we did on birds a couple of years ago. DD & DS started watching an online "owl cam" and became fascinated with owls. We got some books on owls from the library, and I ordered some owl pellets for them to dissect. Dissecting the pellets led to research on food chains, and discussions on the relationship between predators and prey in an ecosystem. DS read a book about a biologist who had a pet owl for many years, and DD started reading the Guardians of Ga'Hoole (sp?) books. This led to a wider interest in birds, so we got books on birds, did lots of birdwatching, went to the zoo to see some exotic birds, watched Attenborough's Life of Birds series, watched a documentary on the relationship between birds & dinosaurs, and read about the mechanics of flight. We got some books on Audubon and DS drew lots of different kinds of birds (especially local ones), while DD prefered a coloring book of Audubon's drawings. We "dissected" a roasting chicken. We read about eggs, and DD colored a page that showed the stages of development in an egg. When they were "done" with birds, we moved on to the next interest.

 

The kids learned a TON, and there was no need to turn it into a "school project" with schedules and worksheets and essays and quizzes. I knew what they were learning because I was right there doing it and discussing it with them.

 

Jackie

 

AWESOME post!! You perfectly described what we do!

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We do a lot of project based learning around here. I agree -no need to make your kids show what they learned (unless you live in my State and the laws say you HAVE too :glare:).

 

My DD is currently saturating herself in China - she's been going at it for 5 weeks now. She wanted to do a lapbook so I bought her a little blank sketch book and she is filling it up with whatever she likes. So far she has watched endeless DVD's, made art, cooked and gone to China town. She now wants to learn Chinese :D I know how she is going because I overheard her giving a 20 minute lecture on China to a poor adult who asked what she had been learning about :lol:

 

She also points things out to me as we walk down the street - "Look mum that pottery looks like it is a Chinese design". She noticed that most of her clothing tags say Made in China and so we have had quite a few discussions about this and how the items end up in our country and why they are made there and not here. Now everytime we buy something she always searches for where it was made. I've got some funny looks in the shops from people when my 6 yo asks "Mummy was this made in China" :D

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Lori has a forum here. I have the book, but haven't found the time to read it yet. I will definitely be incorporating more of it into our year. Although we have always followed the dc interests, I would like to do so in a more conscious manner.

 

I think it can be hard to let go of the output factor, but it is so clear when the dc are learning anyway. I'm looking forward to reading/learning more about this so I can help the kids approach their interests as they want to.

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The point being that these are things *she* is interested in, and so rather than trying to take them and incorporate them into school, I'm trying to create space for her to self-learn, self-teach these things that she has a passion for.

 

This is exactly what I am looking for but giving my child the right amount of guidance to do this does not come naturally to me. I don't want it to be too open ended but this is a topic that he has a passion for so I do not want to squelch it but I want to help him go deeper into it. The output is not important to me--but the process is.

 

Part of this has me thinking about SWB's requirement of quiet time in a new light. She produced the space and time for project directed learning without calling it anything like that. Hmmm. . .I have a lot to think about. Right now I just keep throwing books at him and talking to him about it. I have purchased the book Project Based Homeschooling to see what pearls I can glean from it. The forum also seems like it will be a valuable resource.

 

Thank you for all your replies. Hopefully I'll update this when after I get the book and figure out what direction to go in. . .

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I just finished reading this book, so I thought I'd post a quick update. I think this paragraph summarizes her philosophy quite well:

 

Project-based homeschooling is concerned with the underlying motives, habits, and attitudes of thinking and learning. However you feel about knowledge and skills — whether you’re a Latin-loving classicist or a relaxed unschooler or something in between — the point of project-basd homeschooling is to devote some time to helping your child direct and manage his own learning. This does not have to comprise your entire curriculum. (Though it can.) It does not have to be the primary focus of your learning life. (Though it can be.) But it is essential. It is the part of your child’s education that is focused on that underlying machinery. It is the part of your child’s learning life that is focused on your child’s very specific and unique interests, talents, and passions. It is the part of your child’s learning life when he is not only free to explore whatever interests him, but he receives attention, support, and consistent, dependable mentoring to help him succeed.

 

Parents who already take this approach probably won’t find much new here, but for those who are looking to incorporate more of this sort of thing, and need specific suggestions and explanations, I think it would be quite useful. It’s a quick read, with about an even mix of philosophy and specific details. She covers topics like:

How to identify interests (if your child just shrugs & says “I dunno”)

How to set up project-friendly spaces so children have access to the materials they need to create

What kinds of questions to ask, how to provide encouragement & feedback

How to help kids who get stuck, without “taking over”

How to restart stalled projects

How to help kids assess what they’ve learned and connect it to other things

 

If anyone has any specific questions about the book, I'd be happy to answer them. :001_smile:

 

Jackie

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I have a question for those of you who do this kind of project based learning with multiple children. Do your kids each have a seperate project they are working on, or do they all work on the same one? If they work together, do you decide on the project or do they? I'm still trying to picture it all. It sounds fun!

 

Right now though, my sons' project is learning how to spit milk across the room and my daughter's is trying not to get hit by flying milk. I think it'll be a few years.

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I have a question for those of you who do this kind of project based learning with multiple children. Do your kids each have a seperate project they are working on, or do they all work on the same one? If they work together, do you decide on the project or do they? I'm still trying to picture it all. It sounds fun!

Sometimes they work on the same topic (not always in the same way) and sometimes they do their own thing. The bigger projects tend to include them both, because even if one starts it, the other wants to join in. E.g., the bird project I mentioned — that got started because they were both watching the online owl-cam, so they were both really interested in the topic. They both dissected owl pellets, but DS went further in terms of researching food chains, ecosystems, even the evolution of rodents and the coevolution of species (because paleontology is a huge interest of his). DD built a birdhouse and kept the feeder stocked. As a family, we all watched Life of Birds and other documentaries, we all did lots of birdwatching, went to the zoo, and read about Audubon, but DS did lots of freehand drawing and DD wanted to color the pages in an Audubon coloring book and mail them to her grandparents.

 

One year DS wanted to catch a crayfish and keep it in a tank, so both kids got involved in setting up and maintaining the tank. Then they got into looking at samples of pondwater under the microscope and identifying creatures, but DS went further in terms of identifying, researching, and drawing them, and he kept his drawings & notes in his science sketchbook. DD would draw a few pictures, add a few sentences, and send them to her grandparents (notice a pattern? lol). DS caught a bunch of planarians, got really interested in their anatomy & neurology, did lots of research, designed some experiments, and did several drawings of their digestive and nervous systems. DD had no real interest in the planarians, but she wrote & illustrated a little story about crayfish. (We still have the tank, BTW, and the kids still check the water chemistry, replace it with fresh river water, catch & add new critters to study, etc. )

 

They also do solo projects. DD got really interested in how cars work, and engines in general, so she watched videos (like The Secret Life of Machines), read books, and did lots of hands-on mechanical stuff with DH — none of which DS was interested in. She has her own Snap Circuits kit she can mess around with, and a WeDo Robotics set. She's also really interested in horses: she takes care of her pony, she hangs out with the vet and farrier and asks millions of questions, she goes to other barns and horse shows with DH, she has an anatomical model of a horse and lots of horse books, she loves drawing horses, and she's an excellent rider & horse handler.

 

DS spent several years intensively studying paleontology, including reading college-level texts and participating in professional digs with grad students & post docs (a total of 300+ hours, over the course of 3 years). He even started a paleo blog, but dropped it as his interests shifted more towards Greek history & culture. He's read dozens of books on Greek history & warfare, has watched probably 200+ Teaching Co lectures on Greece, takes Greek classes with Lukeion, has a sketchbook filled with drawings of Greek warriors, and spent 2 weeks in Greece in May.

 

He's also really interested in linguistics (which grew out of his interest in Greek), so he's currently on his 3rd Teaching Co linguistics course, he reads lots of linguistics books, does computational linguistics exercises for fun, and is developing his own invented language. (He's actually invented a whole culture that goes with the language — he has a big sketchbook filled with notes & designs for their houses, clothes, jewelry, weaponry, shrines, gods & mythology, etc.). He wants to learn programming so he can develop an app that will automatically generate vocabulary for invented languages.

 

Some of the projects are much simpler & shorter, and sometimes they even get together and develop their own projects that have nothing to do with me! One snowy day they designed and built a catapult out of an old wheelbarrow frame, a pooper-scooper-shovel, and a bunch of bungie cords, and then spent hours experimenting with it to see how far they could throw a snowball (85' apparently!).

 

Jackie

 

ETA: DS is a rising 8th grader and DD is starting 5th. The projects described above are things we've done in the last 3 yrs or so.

Edited by Corraleno
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I am thinking about using project-based learning as a way for ds to take control over his cub scout experience and to incorporate what he is learning there into our school day. He has already told me he wants to complete everything in his book this year! There is so much there that it will cover a wide variety of topics. I think I will just have him choose what he wants to work on next and let him brainstorm how to meet the requirements for each topic.

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  • 2 months later...
  • 6 months later...

We have, and its working out fine. It works wonders with my eldest. I'm not sure it would mesh with my son, he needs more structure, and my youngest, well she's not at a stage yet where she wants to do anything but workbooks lol.

 

I love Lori's book. Mine is very well loved and broken it, and looking rather dog-eared and sorry for itself, but it's one of my favourite books, and I re-read it all the time.

 

My daughter just takes the lead on whatever she's interested in, I'm there merely for guidance and to help her use & understand the tools at her fingertips. She just asks me for the information she's after (size of the particular machine or project she's doing, or video of how the animal moves, whatever info she's after, and I guide her through the process of finding it on the computer. She watches/collects info, then disappears back off to continue. If she's after something, like something to make the legs of her project, I guide her through the process of figuring it out (I don't just go get her what I think would be suitable, its her project, so if she doesn't have an idea, I get her to "describe" in as much detail as possible, the item she needs i.e. "it needs to be bendy/flexible, and either furry or the ability to make it furry, it has to be hard, cannot be squished, preferably yellow in colour or I need yellow paint, it needs to be < > this long, and this wide." etc. Sometimes whilst she's talking, she'll figure out a suitable item and go rushing off. Other times I get the joy of wandering through the garage or somewhere for a suitable item.

 

Some projects fizzle out, but only a small percentage. Most are treasured and finished to the end. Some projects hit the 3r's (like writing letters) others are the size of your pinky nail, others take over an entire room, and some projects cannot be seen or touched at all. Project is an all-emcompassing word, rather than something that is "known" as a diorama or paper mache.

 

Her projects tend to steer between Language Arts & Science, because those are two areas she is interested in, although most projects are cross-curricular. I really think of it as a very hands-on self-directed unit study (although she usually is juggling multiple "units" at any one time), which is probably why I ended up recently purchasing Konos.

 

I don't think Konos will affect us using PBL, because, to me, PBL is very much a lifestyle, and for our eldest, its what she *does* and who she is, she loves doing it, and whenever she has spare time, she's always working on one of her projects. Which is why we have an atelier and no schoolroom. When the Atelier was a dining room, it was never used. When it was a schoolroom, it was hardly used, now that its been transformed into the Atelier, theres constant traffic ;). Everything is within easy grasp of the children, all supplies are set out, and there are no rules for that area (apart from keeping the floor as clear as possible, so no-one trips lol), the Atelier reminds me of a beehive, always busy and in motion. And lots of interesting little details going on.

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Thank you ecclecticmum! Great post. It sounds like it really works for you guys. I'm loving Lori's book. I'm feeling inspired for sure. I think summer is a great time to try to implement some of the changes she suggests, Im excited!

 

( I'm going to look for the book in your siggy too.)

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Thank you ecclecticmum! Great post. It sounds like it really works for you guys. I'm loving Lori's book. I'm feeling inspired for sure. I think summer is a great time to try to implement some of the changes she suggests, Im excited!

 

( I'm going to look for the book in your siggy too.)

 

If you are talking about the Big Book of Unschooling, its basically a collection of Sandra Dodd's website, so you can save the money and just read through her site. Her site was just too big to me, so I chose to purchase her PDF book on Lulu (which gives me the option to print & proclick it if I want it in paper-format).

 

I actually like Dayna Martin a lot, but haven't read her book as of yet. I read her blog (the Sparkling Martins) and watch her Youtube channel. She was also on a couple of talk shows you can find through YT, and was recently on Wife Swap. They make her look quite bad on there, but I guess because its a short show, and its more about swapping lives. It makes it look like she doesn't do anything (which is completely bogus), but obviously unschooling or radical unschooling is harder to define, but in Dayna's case it would of involved a lot of long discussions with the kids (constant talking, about their interests, your interests, talking about what you know, what they want to know). This is the case at our house. We have a lot of discussions/talks going on. The kids freely go about, but come to me with questions, or to share things, and I contribute my own thoughts, which these discussions often lead to interesting places. I don't necessarily agree with Dayna's thoughts, but thats the beauty of homeschooling, we can each choose our own path.

 

I am not an unschooler (just for info), we are very much eclectic. I am constantly reading through various "styles" and gleaning information. I've read a fair amount of classical books (WTM, Well Educated Mind, Teaching the Trivium, Latin Centred Curriculum etc), a lot of Charlotte Mason, Unit Studies, Overviews, and a whole lot more. Unschooling is just my current area I am working through. I would like to eventually get Radial Unschooling, but after I finish Dodd's book, I will probably move onto Smart Moves, which is a book based on Moving=Learning. Endangered Minds is another book I have been looking at, but I don't think I will get it, because I already basically agree with whats its saying, and its quite negative. EM is more for the person who needs convincing. Then I have The three 3R's and some of John Holts books to get through.

 

What I have found interesting, is I started watching Jessia Hulcy's (Konos) Creating the Balance DVDs last night, and for me, she was hitting stuff right on the head, it almost seemed to be a similar mind to the workings of PBH. She talked a lot about Experiential (Hands-on) Discovery Learning, which is basically what PBH is. The only difference (at least in my mind so far, we'll have to wait and see) is that PBH is child-directed from the get-go, where as Konos chooses the topic, and activity, but, the child has to come up with the reality of the activity themselves, your supposed to be gagged & bound (well not *really*, but in other words, cannot butt in, similar to PBH). So its PBH within constraints, which might work better for those that have problems "free-wheeling" it so-to-speak. Giving more structure to something currently quite unstructured. Konos is christian-centred, but we are planning to use it secularly, and apart from skipping one or two mini-topics, it seems quite easy to do so.

 

Oh and if your going to do PBH, its important for the items to be within their grasp, yes, but, say you have a 20 pound bucket of glitter.....don't have the bucket within their grasp. Have a cupboard you store it in, and use a little herb container/salt shaker or teeny test tube type thing and fill that from the bucket. The glitter is quite in the grasp, but without a dynomite amount, rofl. If they need more or its empty, you can get more. They may go crazy on the displayed supplies for a few days, this is normal if you have been locking everything up, they will be afraid everything is going to disappear on them, therefore they must use it up someway or another. Once they realize those supplies keep getiting replaced with fresh amounts, they calm down. ;) My kids (I was known for locking everything up, because anything they got into they made a mess of, which is a bad spiral, because they just want to do something, and you keep locking everything up, it makes the situation worse, not better) went *really* crazy the first week and a half. Like all those nice bits of paper I folded, all the scrap paper that was there, plus the wrapping paper was turned into a blizzard all over the floor. It was like being gluttoned after being starved, they had so much, and they didn't know what to do with it (and remember, it might disappear) so they just created a room filled with paper, lol. It calmed down, and now they are very respectful with the items, and put most things back some things are left on the table in the Atelier, but nothing is left like a pig-sty or anything, they realize if its a mess, they can't find their stuff, and thats *their* area, so apart from me re-stocking, and the ocassional mop/clean-up, its up to them to keep it clean.

 

HTH xxx

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  • 1 month later...

I think my ds does this on his own. Let me give a few examples, and maybe someone can chime in for me. My bigger question has to do with output in terms of written records, or lab reports, etc. If anything like that were required, he would shut down right away, and totally lose interest in the topic.

 

He has been interested in water purification, so he's checked out about 8-10 books, mostly from the adult section because there wasn't much to choose from in the kids part of the library. He has assembled various supplies to try out a filter, but yesterday he noticed the white flakes left behind by our ice cubes (gotta love hard water!). So he's considering freezing vs. distillation in terms of what is separated out of the water. He then began to look at these particles under the microscope, and found more than one kind. He's done a lot more thinking and trying of things, building small filtration, investigating the cost of different purification methods (i.e., bleach vs. I think it's iodine?).

 

I don't really see how to make time for this, since it is so inspiration based. He may put something away for weeks, and seem to have totally lost interest (often because he's hit a block), and then suddenly start trying other ideas. I'll check out the blogs, though, and maybe the book, because I would like to know how to support this.

 

Bty, he's going into 6th grade this year. Can this still be done without bothering with reports, etc.?

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My bigger question has to do with output in terms of written records, or lab reports, etc. If anything like that were required, he would shut down right away, and totally lose interest in the topic.

...

Bty, he's going into 6th grade this year. Can this still be done without bothering with reports, etc.?

I'll leave the written records, lab reports for "school work".

For personal interest projects like your son's filtration project, maybe get him a sketchbook to jot down ideas so that he can look back as a momento down the road. Also if ever he gets interested in entering his filtration project as a science fair project, he would have his "data" already.

My boys are younger and prefer not to write. They keep a photo log and draw instead for their personal interest projects.

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You may want to try getting the book, she has some ideas on stumbling blocks and when the project is left.

 

I usually just nudge/remind my daughter about the project every now and again, sometimes I ask her to tell me about it (it's happened often whilst she's in the middle of explaining the problem to me, that I ask a couple more questions about the problem (I never give answers, if they are really stuck or frustrated, I may guide them towards a "Resource" for help, but they have to find the answer themselves, if they ask me directly "how to blah blah blah" I'll just remind them thats what google/youtube/encyclopedia/dictionary is for.) so during my probing deeper by questioning, she'll usually have a eureka moment and disappear for the rest of the afternoon to work on her project.

 

I don't "schedule" it, I don't turn it into curriculum, I will, however selflessly "Record it for posterity" I'll take photos, ask her if I can have her notes when she's finished with them etc. ;) I around homeschool AROUND the kids projects. And I really mean "around" (for several weeks the atelier was off limits as my daughter created a larger than life "cobweb" after watching Charlottes Web (she researched for ages before building the web, and the web itself took about 15 hours to create). She then wanted to test the effects of damage to the web (how flies/insects and people would wreck it) so she allowed her brother to go in there if he wanted, but her main "subjects" were the cats she was pretending were flies (they happily obliged since the web was made from yarn). This web was room-sized, and left for several weeks. During this time she periodically examined the effects, and compared it to webs IRL, and on the web. She made smaller models using boxes with materials like dental floss, twine etc. At one point she measured the smaller webs and tried to figure out what size the spider would be. She then (after the web was taken down by her and the project dismantled) proceeded to give her father a blow by blow account of all she'd learned (with her poor father not realizing what was going on and being cornered for an hour and a half, rofl). She's 7 and in 1st grade. Her "projects" look totally different from her brother's projects, which look different to his little sister's "projects". But all are equally cherished and respected, and I facilitate them at their own levels (obviously my son needs extra guidance as he's SN and gets frustrated very easily, and sometimes my 4yo wants something done (knows what she wants) but her motor skills aren't quite up to par to complete/do the task, so she'll come to me for something like that).

 

If you are wanting to "schedule" or add something to the curriculum, choose something that would suit him. If all he's interested in is science experiments, provide him with a complete textbook or encyclopedia. If you want more of a building/design/thinking option, look into "instant challenges" and similar stuff online. I use challenges for my daughter sometimes when she needs a distraction (sometimes when hitting a "bump" in a project, the best thing can be to do another project, or something completely different) or things are feeling a little stale to her.

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again "PBH is not tidy. Its a lovingly messy approach". My kids have projects in various stages all over the place. There are completed ones I have to deal with also. Even in older students who tend to move away from the more knowingly messy activities, there will still be some sort of mess (books all open to a certain page, as if child is mid-thought on it, lots of crumpled paper in the basket or table or floor, various implements around the place, papers strewn over the computer keyboard..) Some of the science experiments are things I never want to see in my life, some models/craft type projects *look* more like science experiments gone wrong, and sometimes I just want everyone to understand that I am not the dictionary/thesaurus/google, no matter how much I may sound like I know, I truly do not know anything. But then, one of the kids does something amazing (even if its just a small random thing, Chaos' speech improving, him sitting for longer periods, Eve wanting to do cutting, and her learning her letter sounds, Atlas writing sentences, and the portrait of me she drew on the board, and the fact she now *wants* to learn to read.) that tells me I am on the right path.

 

We are (I really don't fit into a box unfortunately) relaxed homeschoolers, and projects is what makes up our day, everything else works around (or is pretty much covered) by that. Due to my kids I have to have curricula that meets their needs, and figuring out PBH was a lifesaver for me. Konos actually fits quite well into our approach, and is pretty much replacing our online challenges, as their is always something for the child to make/do without it being too scripted (we use the original volumes, so I follow their interest within a topic).

 

My main idea/base is to MAKE STUFF AVAILABLE. That's why we have an Atelier (art room) but no schoolroom. Its why there are no longer lots of closed cupboards (only two "locked" doors/cupboards in the house is my room and the storage room. And what I make available is quality, useful stuff (no cheap, rote boring workbooks, dried up markers etc). This even extends to the TV for me. Because of my kids, I use TV as another tool. I supply movies/videos for them to watch, do I schedule it? nope, do I demand they watch it? nope, I just provide it (and if needed, explain the videos available) and let that be the end of that. My daughters happily watched cyberchase, MSB, happy scientist and used those for ideas for projects. When we were doing the ear for Konos, I supplied Helen Keller & Ear stuff. They watched the Movie based on her life a couple of times, the cartoon about the ear another few times, and next thing I know they decided to be vibrations in the bedroom.....on the bed. lol. Atlas then set up her own ear, did experiments on her Bro & sis, wanted to read the book on Keller, watched the yt video of Keller from newsreel, got fascinated about sign language, and is slowly being taught it in conjunction with reading, wanted to read the easy reader on Keller, so (with my help) read that, and it went on and on and on. I had only mentioned one or two things with her "Oh, you could set up traffic signs to play "roads" outside" or "the thing she's doing into her palm is called sign language" and she just took off with the rest. We are basically too structured for unschooling, too relaxed for classical, and too games/fun/modern-world based for CM & Waldorf, and too crazy for Montessori (LOL!). But I'm actually inspired by parts of all of those.

 

PBH is one that really more fits with us, but isn't *all* we are.

 

I'm sorry if my reply is jumbled. PBH has become so far apart of our homeschool, that its hard to describe or look at from an unbiased and more informational angle, its more that PBH is life/living, with us. It's very much weaved into our day so naturally its hard to seperate it, so I only end up explaining the more odd or larger "projects" than the everyday parts of "life".

 

Pickert's book is a gem in my household (in fact its so dog-eared, and I use it so much (meaning that I'm always hunting for where I left it last) that I have been thinking of getting another copy. Like WTM, PBH is a book, where each time I read it, I am always picking up some new little nugget of brilliance.

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I'm actually going to ikea in a few days for some "project space" organization. Unfortunately, we are in the process of house hunting & moving out of state, so I'm doing a very scaled down version of the space I would really like to create.

 

 

Anyways, I really recommend the book, it's a great guide!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Do you have an area you can dedicate?

 

 

I'm not really going to be any help, I'm totally scatter brained and type b, so we just push messes aside and drag them back out.

 

 

Fwiw, I set up DS' space in his room. He's working on a ninja turtle stop motion project right now, so he doesn't care that it's not out by the rest of us. We are house hunting and moving so I couldn't set up a full scale space in our living space.

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  • 5 months later...

Has anyone attempted this with 4 kids?  How did that go?

 

This past summer I had three kids, and, as now, our Wednesday afternoons were project time. The youngest got most of my direct help. The olders mostly got verbal guidance, including a lot of, "This is what I would do if I were more free right now to help you. Can you go do that?" It was expensive and exhausting and at times dizzying, but also satisfying and I think my boys all gained a sturdier sense of who they are and how to be in the world. It was good for my relationship with them too. It gave them a model for, "Mama won't do it for me, but she's on my side, cheering for me," and that somehow both tied them to me on a heart-level while freeing them from me on a hands-level. I love what they choose to do as projects (one, making herbal medicines, two, programming Flash games, three, building small mechatronics) but the real reason I can't give up project-based learning is that I love how we relate to each other as a family when we are doing it.

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