Talk me down, you guys

[Aspasia]

My dd is beginning kindergarten this fall. I've been so excited about homeschooling for a long time. BUT....

 

This child is my biggest challenge in life. We just butt heads a lot. And she is constantly fighting with her brother--yes, the 2-year-old. This morning she went to a summer camp, and you know what? The morning was SO peaceful with her gone. And then she came home and the drama and fighting began immediately.

 

It really makes the idea of sending her to school (full-day kindergarten around here) sound really, really nice. I know a lot of responses to this, but I just need to hear them from some people OUTSIDE my head. :lol:

 

Talk me down, because I'm about to enroll this child in school!

[pitterpatter]

Are you really? Or, are you just venting? ;)

[boscopup]

1) Character problems don't just magically disappear when you send kids off to school. I would rather fix the problems and have better relationships at home. Note that sometimes those problems are worsened some by our own attitudes, so check your attitude first, then work on hers.

 

2) My experience sending my son off to school was that when he came home, the kids' fighting was 10 times worse! So every afternoon/evening and weekend was HORRIBLE. The sibling relationships got a lot better when he came home to homeschool, and then I worked on fighting and such within that context. So much better now!

 

3) What was your original reason to homeschool? Does that reason still exist?

[BugsMama]

I have a difficult child as well.

 

Nothing but :grouphug:

[Chrysalis Academy]

:grouphug: This child of mine *does* go to school, and I really want to bring her home but don't feel capable of teaching her and maintaining a good relationship and having a functional life. Very guilt-inducing. No advice, but :bigear: and :grouphug:.

[Mom-2-7]

I can totally relate. My 6yo dd is a huge challenge. As a matter of fact I didn't do Kindergarten with her at all b/c of the fighting and attitude. Thankfully she taught herself reading and basic math.

 

We started 1st grade last week. We had a short week, only 2 days. Both of those days ended with me taking Motrin and dh bringing dinner home.

 

I stare longingly at the elementary school across the street. But I know she wouldn't do well in school.

 

Tomorrow I'm going to take my Motrin first!

 

I wish I had some words of wisdom but I'm still trying to figure it out. Just know that you are not alone.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I would say send her and see how it goes. I sent my youngest to day school and he learned quickly that his misbehavior (fighting, whining, being bossy) got him in trouble and did not get him friends.

My son didn't go to public school though. This was a private day school at a Methodist Church. The teacher called me and told me his behavior the first week of school and I told her it did not surprise me he was strong willed. We discussed appropriate punishments and discipline and by the end of the year he was a changed child.

It would have been difficult for me to implement the punishments and discipline that he received while also focusing on my other children and their schooling needs at home. It was what we needed at the time.

I had to pull him a couple of months before school ended b/c of needing to go to my home state b/c my Mom was diagnosed with cancer. Mom is fine now. We spent 3 months there. My ds never regressed to the prior behavior before day school and home schooled with us this year.

So I would say do what your heart tells you will be best for your dd and your family. There is a time for everything. Just because you put her in this year does not mean there will not be a time for home school in your future.

[Tenaj]

Is she excited about starting school work? If so, maybe you can use that desire to encourage her to be more reasonable around the house.

 

My difficult child (who will turn 5 in December) is chomping at the bit to begin to do school with us so I'm planning on beginning K when we start school back up in a few weeks. BUT he is still in the fighting, fit-throwing, screaming stage of life much of the time. For the past month, when he's having a meltdown or a conflict with someone in the family and not being reasonable, I have been *trying* to rationally explain to him that he will not being doing school this year unless I see him improving in his attitudes and actions. It's working, slowly but surely and I can see huge improvements in his responses to us. We'll see how it actually works when school starts :)

[Aspasia]

Are you really? Or, are you just venting? ;)

 

I'm pretty sure I'm just venting.

 

But it's nice to know I'm not alone. Honestly, this fighting thing is relatively new. I used to delight in how well my kids played together. I'm thinking it probably has something to do with the new baby.

[duckens]

This child is my biggest challenge in life. We just butt heads a lot. And she is constantly fighting with her brother--yes, the 2-year-old.

The good news is that she is in K, so there is not a lot of things that you NEEEEEEEEEED to do. You may want to do Latin, or Spanish, or Underwater Basket weaving, but the goals should be math, learning to read, and writing.

 

1) You need to figure out what motivates her. She needs to know that she will get something out of doing XYZ. She needs to know the returns for doing XYZ will be greater than the satisfaction of butting heads with you.

 

a) We use money for dd5's bank to motivate. dd5 earns 5c for each K page of schoolwork she earns, plus 25c for practicing piano for 15minute, plus a bonus if she does everything asked of her. This also eliminates struggles at the store/zoo/science center because if she wants something, she can buy it herself. If she doesn't have the money, we discuss what she can do to get money (schoolwork). This has developed a healthy work ethic for her, where she sets goals and sees the fruits of her labor.

 

**Disclaimer: I am the first to admit that $$ for schoolwork is not the right choice for every family.**

 

b) Would she like a tea set? Buy a tea set, and she gets one piece for every day she completes what is asked. Don't be wishy washy though. Either she did what was on the list or she didn't. If you do this, make it a game that she has to roll a die at the end of the day to determine which piece she gets.

For example:

1 = teapot or lid

2 = cup

3 = saucer

4 = fork or spoon

5 = creamer, sugar bowl, or lid

6 = tea party!!! You may only have 2 pieces to play with and have to supplement with your kitchen dishes because she hasn't earned the full set yet. You also need to make sure there is a special treat to shares like juice in the teapot and goldfish crackers, jelly beans, or marshmallows as a treat.

 

By determining her items by rolling the die, she can't choose just the fun pieces, and only have some silly forks and spoons to motivate her at the end of the month.

 

c) Does she like legos? Buy a lego set, and she gets one piece (to collect into a shoebox) for each page of schoolwork (or subject) completed. If there are building instructions, she could earn the pieces in order of the kit. She could earn several pieces in a day.

 

d) Does she want an "American Girl" doll? (Those are expensive!!!) Make a chart with $1 for each square. She can color in one square for each day she does everything. The only problem is that because AG dolls are so expensive, it will be a lot of days before she sees a return on her work. Maybe skip AG and just get Barbie some new clothes for her wardrobe....

 

e) A trip to the zoo, park, science center, movies, swimming, play games all day, do art all day (one project after another)? Determine the reward beforehand, and make a chart with squares to color. If she completes her schoolwork (Math lesson, Phonics Lesson, Writing Lesson, etc), she can color in a square. When 5 squares (or 10 squares, or 8 squares) are colored in, the next day, if at all possible, is a zoo day.

 

Other tips:

--Any schoolwork that needs to be corrected must be done so before the next reward is dispersed. Sometimes it is best to ask for immediate repairs; sometimes waiting until the next day is best. You know your child well enough to know when a good time to make corrections is.

 

--Be tough. Either your child has met the requirements, or they have not.

 

--Make a daily chart to color in with a square for each subject. (We have stripes of squares that represent each day going across the page. 1 square for piano, 1 for each lesson requirement, and 3 that are labeled "20 min reading"). For young children, this helps them to feel accomplishment when you say, "It's time to color in another square," and it helps them to gauge how much work they have left to do today and how much they have already accomplished.

 

--Be non-emotional and nonjudgmental about schoolwork, even though you try to accomplish something each day. If she chooses to not, well, then we just won't go to the zoo. Aw well. If she wanted the rest of the lego kit? Well, you aren't the one that determines when she gets more pieces; she is. Hmmmm.....what could she do for more lego pieces?

 

2) Does she have any homeschooling friends? It was tough for dd5 to want to homeschool when all of her preschool friends were talking about going to K at one elementary school or another. By meeting other homeschool friends her age, she realized that this was a valid choice for this fall instead of something weird her mom wanted to do to specifically torture her. It helped her to feel part of a group, plus there is the power of group psychology at that age by wanting to be a part of the group.

 

3) You are not allowed to feel bad if you and your husband do choose to send her to public school. In the same way that some kids are traumatized by public school, but blossom at home: some kids who struggle learning at home do really well in public school because they want to be part of the group; they want to do what everyone else is doing; and they don't want to be the only one who can't/doesn't _________.

 

a) If your school system is accommodating, you could send her for the academic portion of the morning, and have her home in the afternoon. Last year, a homeschooling friend was concerned that her 1st grader was not reading yet. (There are divorce and custody issues, too, for her). So she sent G for the 2-hour literacy block every morning from 9-11am, and G was home by lunch.

 

I would feel sad if you sent your dd to public school, because it sounds like you have wanted to homeschool for a long time, but I also want your family to make the best decisions for your children. I can't make the judgment for what that is, but I can tell you that there are many on this board that will support you whatever you decide.

 

Sorry so long.

[NotSoObvious]

You can remind yourself that school just replaces the problem with a new set of problems. :) Sometimes one is easier to handle than the other, but don't let yourself believe it would be all roses and puppy dogs.

 

And, if enrolling her in something a few mornings a week helps keep the peace, then go for it!

[EMS83]

I love duckens' suggestions. And I'm with boscopup; my kids (almost-5 DS, especially) get bent seriously out of shape the more I react. My DD tends to just get her feelings hurt when I get angry. I've had to learn (and am still learning!) to diffuse the situation and try to have 0 tolerance and a quick response time for disobedience and disrespect. Our approach is to generally make obedience attractive and disobedience unpleasant. That way when they are asked to sit down to work (or do anything else), even if they don't want to, there is very little complaining. And if there is any outright objection, it is disobedience and dealt with accordingly. I also point out to them the benefits of cooperating and the consequences of being difficult. Often it's their own play time they end up wasting on discipline and stalling. It can be all-consuming, though and there are days that discipline and refereeing is pretty much all I do. And picking up after the toddler who likes to find my Sharpies when I'm distracted. :glare:

 

ETA: With a new baby, it's ok to give yourself and everyone else some slack for just being unstructured; vegging, playing, etc. You're sort of in survival mode still and that will look different. My first two were almost 20 months apart, so I didn't learn how to get the older siblings to help until my 3rd came along. Ask them to get stuff (diaper, purse, whatever they're capable of) and tell them how doing that helps you and tell them how much you appreciate those favors. Try to use any energy or time saved to read to them or anything that they consider special mommy time. When you're not catching up on sleep, anyway!

Edited July 23, 2012 by CES2005

[Aspasia]

The good news is that she is in K, so there is not a lot of things that you NEEEEEEEEEED to do. You may want to do Latin, or Spanish, or Underwater Basket weaving, but the goals should be math, learning to read, and writing.

 

1) You need to figure out what motivates her. She needs to know that she will get something out of doing XYZ. She needs to know the returns for doing XYZ will be greater than the satisfaction of butting heads with you.

 

a) We use money for dd5's bank to motivate. dd5 earns 5c for each K page of schoolwork she earns, plus 25c for practicing piano for 15minute, plus a bonus if she does everything asked of her. This also eliminates struggles at the store/zoo/science center because if she wants something, she can buy it herself. If she doesn't have the money, we discuss what she can do to get money (schoolwork). This has developed a healthy work ethic for her, where she sets goals and sees the fruits of her labor.

 

**Disclaimer: I am the first to admit that $$ for schoolwork is not the right choice for every family.**

 

b) Would she like a tea set? Buy a tea set, and she gets one piece for every day she completes what is asked. Don't be wishy washy though. Either she did what was on the list or she didn't. If you do this, make it a game that she has to roll a die at the end of the day to determine which piece she gets.

For example:

1 = teapot or lid

2 = cup

3 = saucer

4 = fork or spoon

5 = creamer, sugar bowl, or lid

6 = tea party!!! You may only have 2 pieces to play with and have to supplement with your kitchen dishes because she hasn't earned the full set yet. You also need to make sure there is a special treat to shares like juice in the teapot and goldfish crackers, jelly beans, or marshmallows as a treat.

 

By determining her items by rolling the die, she can't choose just the fun pieces, and only have some silly forks and spoons to motivate her at the end of the month.

 

c) Does she like legos? Buy a lego set, and she gets one piece (to collect into a shoebox) for each page of schoolwork (or subject) completed. If there are building instructions, she could earn the pieces in order of the kit. She could earn several pieces in a day.

 

d) Does she want an "American Girl" doll? (Those are expensive!!!) Make a chart with $1 for each square. She can color in one square for each day she does everything. The only problem is that because AG dolls are so expensive, it will be a lot of days before she sees a return on her work. Maybe skip AG and just get Barbie some new clothes for her wardrobe....

 

e) A trip to the zoo, park, science center, movies, swimming, play games all day, do art all day (one project after another)? Determine the reward beforehand, and make a chart with squares to color. If she completes her schoolwork (Math lesson, Phonics Lesson, Writing Lesson, etc), she can color in a square. When 5 squares (or 10 squares, or 8 squares) are colored in, the next day, if at all possible, is a zoo day.

 

Other tips:

--Any schoolwork that needs to be corrected must be done so before the next reward is dispersed. Sometimes it is best to ask for immediate repairs; sometimes waiting until the next day is best. You know your child well enough to know when a good time to make corrections is.

 

--Be tough. Either your child has met the requirements, or they have not.

 

--Make a daily chart to color in with a square for each subject. (We have stripes of squares that represent each day going across the page. 1 square for piano, 1 for each lesson requirement, and 3 that are labeled "20 min reading"). For young children, this helps them to feel accomplishment when you say, "It's time to color in another square," and it helps them to gauge how much work they have left to do today and how much they have already accomplished.

 

--Be non-emotional and nonjudgmental about schoolwork, even though you try to accomplish something each day. If she chooses to not, well, then we just won't go to the zoo. Aw well. If she wanted the rest of the lego kit? Well, you aren't the one that determines when she gets more pieces; she is. Hmmmm.....what could she do for more lego pieces?

 

2) Does she have any homeschooling friends? It was tough for dd5 to want to homeschool when all of her preschool friends were talking about going to K at one elementary school or another. By meeting other homeschool friends her age, she realized that this was a valid choice for this fall instead of something weird her mom wanted to do to specifically torture her. It helped her to feel part of a group, plus there is the power of group psychology at that age by wanting to be a part of the group.

 

3) You are not allowed to feel bad if you and your husband do choose to send her to public school. In the same way that some kids are traumatized by public school, but blossom at home: some kids who struggle learning at home do really well in public school because they want to be part of the group; they want to do what everyone else is doing; and they don't want to be the only one who can't/doesn't _________.

 

a) If your school system is accommodating, you could send her for the academic portion of the morning, and have her home in the afternoon. Last year, a homeschooling friend was concerned that her 1st grader was not reading yet. (There are divorce and custody issues, too, for her). So she sent G for the 2-hour literacy block every morning from 9-11am, and G was home by lunch.

 

I would feel sad if you sent your dd to public school, because it sounds like you have wanted to homeschool for a long time, but I also want your family to make the best decisions for your children. I can't make the judgment for what that is, but I can tell you that there are many on this board that will support you whatever you decide.

 

Sorry so long.

 

This is great advice. I actually don't have much of a compliance issue. I have figured out what makes her tick. I tried a token system where she received tokens for doing what she was supposed to do and then could use them to buy things from a little "store" I had set up. Yeah, big, fat fail. If she didn't want to do something, she just said she didn't want the token. And she really didn't. That left me powerless to elicit comliance. I've learned that what she values more than anything is freedom--freedom to play outside, freedom to play with friends, etc. So she just isn't allowed to play until her chores are done in the morning. Simple as that. It's not optional. She just has to do it. And then there are extra chores she can do to earn money. School is the same way--no playing until you're done, and if you waste 10 minutes of my time by whining through a reading lesson, I will waste 10 minutes of your free time (meaning, you sit in a chair for 10 minute) after school is finished. This has been far more effective for us. Unfortunately. I tried going entirely positive, but it just communicated to her that these expectations were optional, and they're not.

 

My bigger issue is the whining and fighting and arguing. It's the general atmosphere of contention that seems to follow her everywhere she goes these days. Grrrrrr!

 

We are going to sign her up for Girl Scouts and maybe one or two other activities. That may help the situation.

[tabrizia]

I'm pretty sure I'm just venting.

 

But it's nice to know I'm not alone. Honestly, this fighting thing is relatively new. I used to delight in how well my kids played together. I'm thinking it probably has something to do with the new baby.

 

I'm guessing the new baby has something to do with it too if it is a new change. I found that both of mine had some issues when the baby was born, it took about 6 months or so for everyone to get fully settled again after DS2 was born. Your baby is under 2 months old, it is quite possibly just a reaction to the new baby being there.

[kristinannie]

1) Character problems don't just magically disappear when you send kids off to school. I would rather fix the problems and have better relationships at home. Note that sometimes those problems are worsened some by our own attitudes, so check your attitude first, then work on hers.

 

2) My experience sending my son off to school was that when he came home, the kids' fighting was 10 times worse! So every afternoon/evening and weekend was HORRIBLE. The sibling relationships got a lot better when he came home to homeschool, and then I worked on fighting and such within that context. So much better now!

 

3) What was your original reason to homeschool? Does that reason still exist?

 

 

I couldn't have said this better myself!

[Priscila]

I echo duckens' and Boscopup's advice!

[mohop]

I just wanted to say that I am finding this thread reassuring. I have been planning to home school my kids from before they were born, really, but lately have been getting so frustrated and annoyed and wondering if I had it in me to home school. I think I kind of thought that most home schooling moms must love spending time with their kids 24/7 and that there was something wrong with me if I didn't.

[Brooketopia]

My 8yo and I butt heads a lot because we are practically the same person.

 

She went to K for three months because I was newly pregnant (read: SICK!) and I knew I wasn't capable of homeschooling while going through that misery.

 

The fighting with siblings GOT WORSE. So much worse. She'd get picked on for being a "little" Kindergartener at school, and she'd come home and pick on her sisters for being "too little" to go to school. I brought her back home once I could hold down food again and it took three months of constant pushing back against the behaviors she'd learned until they finally went away.

 

She's still strong-willed to this day, and it's been a great lesson to me about what's important and what's not important and respecting individuals as human beings. (I have a dominating personality as well, so it's a lesson I really needed to learn.)

 

I could throw that kid out a window some days, but then we'll light upon a topic she loves and we have such a great time together as we explore and research. As much as we can annoy each other, I would miss her terribly if she wasn't around. (I'll also admit that it is a nice break when she's off at camp...for about two days, and then I miss her.)

[momaof3]

I also have a difficult one and completely understand but you also stated a new baby is in the picture so this could surely be part of it. She has to get used to sharing you with two other people now and fighting with her brother get attention that she may want. Take a little time for just you and her to do something. It just may be that she wants all of your attention and will get it even if it means in a bad way.

[shernandez]

Mine is a challenge, too...and she fights with the 4 MONTH OLD! This morning, she told me he was trying to kick her off of the sofa, and she meant it. We butt heads and she only does things when she wants. But...I would rather try to help her respect me before she learns to respect others. Maybe try some kind of reward chart for good behavior. Or, have her be your helper. DD loves to feel like she is the mommy, so I try to give her little jobs she can be proud of (pick out an outfit for ds, help me with his bath). Also, I try to spend all of his nap time with her. We just talk and read or do whatever she wants. This helps her feel important and not forgotten.

Also, if no one is getting hurt, I would try ignoring it. If dd isn't getting a reaction from me, she tends to give it up. Hope this helps...

[BugsMama]

I just wanted to say that I am finding this thread reassuring. I have been planning to home school my kids from before they were born, really, but lately have been getting so frustrated and annoyed and wondering if I had it in me to home school. I think I kind of thought that most home schooling moms must love spending time with their kids 24/7 and that there was something wrong with me if I didn't.

 

You're right in the middle of a really hard age- my son is 5/08 and it's just now getting a tiny bit better. Hang in there, by the time it's time to really teach them, i'm sure our munchkins will have settled down a little! :grouphug:

[KrissiK]

I have a very difficult child as well. He's going into 4 th grade though. And I understand about the camp thing. He was away for a week and the conflict in this house stopped. The other children played so well together. There was extended periods of silence when all that was going on was coloring and Legos. I, too, have though of school. But here's why we don 't.

1. The battles would begin at 3:00 with homework, and they would be worse because he'd have been sitting all day and would be completely out of control.

2. Him being gone wouldn't help him, just us.

3. After hearing the reports from camp, he would probably really struggle socially and that would open a whole different can of worms.

4. After hearing reports from camp, I will not be spending $400 plus (he'd go to a Christian school) to get regular calls from the teacher after the brief honeymoon phase ends.

 

So, we will struggle along. Homeschooling is best for him and we've been trying some new techniques (we've been putting into practice some of Kevin Leman's ideas from "How to Have a New Kid by Friday") that seem to be working.

[Aspasia]

My 8yo and I butt heads a lot because we are practically the same person.

 

She went to K for three months because I was newly pregnant (read: SICK!) and I knew I wasn't capable of homeschooling while going through that misery.

 

The fighting with siblings GOT WORSE. So much worse. She'd get picked on for being a "little" Kindergartener at school, and she'd come home and pick on her sisters for being "too little" to go to school. I brought her back home once I could hold down food again and it took three months of constant pushing back against the behaviors she'd learned until they finally went away.

 

She's still strong-willed to this day, and it's been a great lesson to me about what's important and what's not important and respecting individuals as human beings. (I have a dominating personality as well, so it's a lesson I really needed to learn.)

 

I could throw that kid out a window some days, but then we'll light upon a topic she loves and we have such a great time together as we explore and research. As much as we can annoy each other, I would miss her terribly if she wasn't around. (I'll also admit that it is a nice break when she's off at camp...for about two days, and then I miss her.)

 

This pretty much describes us perfectly! DD is very much like me and I think our strong personalities are just bound to clash sometimes. But we do enjoy one another a lot and I know I would miss her if she were gone all day.

[librarymama]

I feel this way about my Ker sometimes! I wonder what in the world am I thinking trying to homeschool him when he is such a challenge at times. But I am excited and actually hoping that by homeschooling we will become closer. I know that he will really benefit from more attention from me.

[ItoLina]

My nearly 5 year old has recently gotten REALLY difficult to deal with, but when I think about the issues I have with him at home, then think about my experience teaching in public school, I cannot imagine how much worse it could be in school. I think I would be in the proncipal's office every day and I don't think he would be getting the help he needs to deal with some of the issues he is having, or at least not as consistenly as I give him at home. That is what keeps me going. That and trying to remind myself that everyday isn't going to be a great day, and thats ok.

 

Good luck, I know it is tough, especially with a new baby around.

[kesmom]

I had the same exact mental struggle the week of VBS.

[Tracy]

I'm thinking it probably has something to do with the new baby.

 

I didn't notice the baby in your siggy at first. When I had my youngest, my pediatrician thankfully warned me to expect lots of negative behavior from my older child for at least a month, and that is exactly how long it took for her to change back into her previously adorable self. You are not very much beyond that one-month mark. I would not at this point consider it a discipline issue but an emotional security issue. Make sure she has time with mom and dad that is just for her and that she has as much routine as possible. See how it goes over the next month.

[momaof3]

:iagree:

I didn't notice the baby in your siggy at first. When I had my youngest, my pediatrician thankfully warned me to expect lots of negative behavior from my older child for at least a month, and that is exactly how long it took for her to change back into her previously adorable self. You are not very much beyond that one-month mark. I would not at this point consider it a discipline issue but an emotional security issue. Make sure she has time with mom and dad that is just for her and that she has as much routine as possible. See how it goes over the next month.

[Aspasia]

Okay, I take it all back. Turns out the 2-year-old is a lot easier to keep occupied when dd is here, even if there are squabbles. He's lost without her (and therefore, so am I!)

 

Plus, I realized the obvious the other day: Of course it would be easier to send her to public school. Of course a break would be nice. But I didn't choose to homeschool because I thought it would be easier. I chose homeschool because I believe it is what's best for our family (academically, socially, emotionally, and relationship-wise). Duh, right?

 

Thanks for all the encouragement, everyone!