Do you see red flags if...

[shanvan]

deleted

Edited July 23, 2012 by shanvan

[Kathryn]

I don't ever reply to people who ask for personal paypal. It offers you no protection at all. I have once had someone ask for it after I responded to their ad. It was something that I really needed, that was OOP and was a good price, so I offered to pay the difference and use the purchase paypal. If she had refused, I would have backed out.

[Shelly in IL]

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Edited July 23, 2012 by Shelly in IL

[Kathryn]

Yes, it's wrong. When you set up a Paypal account, you agreed to their terms, and one of them is that you cannot request personal when selling. You also cannot *add* fees to make up for the cost of using paypal, but you can build it into your price. So, for instance, you cannot say $5 by check or $5.50 for paypal.

Edited July 23, 2012 by kebg11

[Shelly in IL]

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Edited July 23, 2012 by Shelly in IL

[Kathryn]

Here are the relevant sections:

 

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_US#4.%20Receiving%20Money

 

4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments.

 

and

 

4.6 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge for non-PayPal transactions.

[shanvan]

Is it wrong? I think the fees Paypal is charging are high. I've not done this very often, as I just found out about it, but I've also never had someone offer to reimburse me for my fees, either.

 

--

Edited July 23, 2012 by shanvan

[Cindy in FL.]

I've listed personal Paypal as the payment method on items I've sold in the past. I only did it because I thought I couldn't do credit cards. I didn't realize that it would leave the buyer without recourse in the event of a problem. Someone recently asked to do credit and I found out that it was easy to do. I would not ask for personal Paypal in the future.

 

Cindy

[shanvan]

Voluntarily deleted by poster

Edited July 23, 2012 by shanvan

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

Deal breaker for me. Will absolutely not do personal paypal. I figure if the seller is too petty to deal with the cost of using the paypal service then they are not someone I will do business with. Also will not do business with someone that requires me to pay the fees when I purchase something from them.

[shanvan]

Deal breaker for me. Will absolutely not do personal paypal. I figure if the seller is too petty to deal with the cost of using the paypal service then they are not someone I will do business with. Also will not do business with someone that requires me to pay the fees when I purchase something from them.

 

--

Edited July 23, 2012 by shanvan

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

I'm beginning to think the same. I wonder if I should direct the seller to this thread? What do you think?

If it is someone you still are willing to do business with, maybe.

[djsmom]

Morally, I don't think it is very nice to ask a buyer to give up all recourse should the item not arrive or get damaged in transit. By choosing 'purchase' as the transaction type the buyer is afforded some level of comfort that she will actually recieve the item. I don't think it fosters a relationship of trust to ask a buyer to give up protection, so I don't ask that they use the personal option. I want the buyer to realize I'm going to do everything I can to be a responsible seller.

 

:iagree:Exactly this.

 

ETA: I have offered to cover paypal fees in the past if it was an item I really wanted. I don't necessarily jump to the conclusion that just because someone requests "personal" that they are not trustworthy. Many instances, they probably just don't understand the different Paypal options.

But honestly, I am leaning more and more to just buying new, at least with larger purchases. It's just seems safer these days.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Charlotte

[Myra]

Perhaps the seller doesn't know the rules of Paypal clearly (I know, we can all read the rules at the paypal site but still...) and if you tactfully explain the rules....

I'm speaking from personal experience as I didn't know the difference in the paypal options and someone explained the difference to me once nicely in a pm - and I'm greatful to that person now.

 

Myra

[Jennifer3141]

I've never bought used stuff here but I don't get why it's even allowed to be marked as "personal." I get why ebay doesn't have/enforce Paypal rules but isn't this site small enough that it could be stipulated that sellers are not allowed to mark their products as personal?

[hthnmamax2]

I'm not quite understanding. I have a Personal PayPal account and I have people pay me through PayPal. Does this mean that people who buy from me are not protected? I'm really not understanding and I would prefer people use PayPal however I don't think I want to get a business account just to sell a few books.

[Slartibartfast]

a seller requests personal paypal payments? I've just had it happen to me for the first time. The seller has 100% positive feedback---but so did the seller who tried to burn me for over $200 on ebay a few years back. It's not an experience I'd like to repeat.

 

I've offered to add extra $ for the fees, which I really don't like doing and do not ask buyers to do when I am selling. Do you usually offer to pay for fees to avoid using personal, or do you just back out of the sale?

 

 

Yep, I would back out. There is no way I would send person paypal.

[Slartibartfast]

I'm not quite understanding. I have a Personal PayPal account and I have people pay me through PayPal. Does this mean that people who buy from me are not protected? I'm really not understanding and I would prefer people use PayPal however I don't think I want to get a business account just to sell a few books.

 

It isn't a different account. There is an option for money as a gift or just giving someone money. There is NO recourse.

[elegantlion]

Perhaps the seller doesn't know the rules of Paypal clearly (I know, we can all read the rules at the paypal site but still...) and if you tactfully explain the rules....

I'm speaking from personal experience as I didn't know the difference in the paypal options and someone explained the difference to me once nicely in a pm - and I'm greatful to that person now.

 

Myra

 

:iagree: At one point there was a thread about it, years ago. Paypal had said okay to use personal payment for items such as this. that was back when they first started implementing fees for non-cc payments. In the last few years, that ruling has changed and a lot of people may not realize it.

 

So the culture here used to be personal payments were okay. It was helping everyone avoid fees., When a few bad transactions occurred and people realized they had no recourse many started changing, then the ruling from paypal came about.

[Kathryn]

I've never bought used stuff here but I don't get why it's even allowed to be marked as "personal." I get why ebay doesn't have/enforce Paypal rules but isn't this site small enough that it could be stipulated that sellers are not allowed to mark their products as personal?

 

I've wondered that myself and even contacted a moderator to ask but never got a response. Most sites I've bought/sold on have rules and one of those is that personal paypal may not be asked for.

 

I'm not quite understanding. I have a Personal PayPal account and I have people pay me through PayPal. Does this mean that people who buy from me are not protected? I'm really not understanding and I would prefer people use PayPal however I don't think I want to get a business account just to sell a few books.

 

No, your account is a personal account. The question here is not over accounts but payment. When you click to send money on paypal, you choose whether you are buying something, or just sending someone money without goods involved (which is the "personal" button). It doesn't matter that you have a "personal" account.

[djsmom]

I'm not quite understanding. I have a Personal PayPal account and I have people pay me through PayPal. Does this mean that people who buy from me are not protected? I'm really not understanding and I would prefer people use PayPal however I don't think I want to get a business account just to sell a few books.

 

A personal paypal account is different than paying using the "personal" tab, which is what is being discussed in this thread.

[Kathryn]

:iagree: At one point there was a thread about it, years ago. Paypal had said okay to use personal payment for items such as this. that was back when they first started implementing fees for non-cc payments. In the last few years, that ruling has changed and a lot of people may not realize it.

 

So the culture here used to be personal payments were okay. It was helping everyone avoid fees., When a few bad transactions occurred and people realized they had no recourse many started changing, then the ruling from paypal came about.

 

They changed the user agreement in June of 2009. Since then, this has been their policy, though I've seen people try to argue that since they aren't a business, it doesn't apply to them. That is not the case though.

[higginszoo]

Absolutely wrong for them to ask.

 

Now, I did voluntarily send funds through the personal option for some books recently ... it was someone on my parents' local board, and as soon as we'd agreed on price and before I was sure that we were set on how to transfer, she'd dropped the books off at my parents'. Since they weren't there and couldn't pay her, and I didn't want to try to figure out how to add fees in, I just made it a personal transaction (I had already received the goods, after a fashion).

 

Usually, I would expect the seller to wait for payment before delivery/shipment to the buyer, so therefore, the regular Paypal system gives protection that I refuse to give up as a buyer unless I know the seller well.

[hthnmamax2]

No, your account is a personal account. The question here is not over accounts but payment. When you click to send money on paypal, you choose whether you are buying something, or just sending someone money without goods involved (which is the "personal" button). It doesn't matter that you have a "personal" account.

 

Thank you for clarifying that for me. I always just told people to pay through PayPal never specifying which option. Now I know to be more specific. Thanks! :001_smile:

[Osmosis Mom]

It was me who is the seller and I have been selling and homeschooling and online for 13 years now. I think as homeschooling mothers then we try to not lose too much money after we buy curriculum and then decide to sell it. I have people request the same from me and the issue is not larger than if I am unsure of who they are or if they are new to the forum, then I would not do personal paypal or even send a money order (since many now do not want the issue with checks for which I cannot totally blame them).

 

I have gotten ripped off once for $100 (it might have been the same woman whom people were talking about recently even though it happened 10 years back), but other than that, if I don't feel like sending people my money then this way of doing transactions is just not going to work for me. That's why we have official sellers.

 

Best,

 

Nadia

[joyfulhomeschooler]

I think too many times the seller is unaware that it is wrong because they haven't taken the time to actually read the agreement with paypal. I wouldn't absoluetely say to not use this seller because of that. I would give them the option first to do the right thing. Offer to pay the fee's if it is something you REALLY want, if not just direct them to the correct reading of the agreement and explain why you don't want to do a personal pmt. If then they are unwilling to budge, then I would back out. We have to remember that most people on here are mothers and homeschoolers not business professionals so we should give them the benefit of the doubt and offer them the right choice first.

[joyfulhomeschooler]

It was me who is the seller and I have been selling and homeschooling and online for 13 years now. I think as homeschooling mothers then we try to not lose too much money after we buy curriculum and then decide to sell it. I have people request the same from me and the issue is not larger than if I am unsure of who they are or if they are new to the forum, then I would not do personal paypal or even send a money order (since many now do not want the issue with checks for which I cannot totally blame them).

 

I have gotten ripped off once for $100 (it might have been the same woman whom people were talking about recently even though it happened 10 years back), but other than that, if I don't feel like sending people my money then this way of doing transactions is just not going to work for me. That's why we have official sellers.

 

Best,

 

Nadia

 

I am glad you were able to get on here and explain yourself. I think we tend to forget that we are dealing with mothers and homeschoolers and not official sellers like you stated. There are ways to work together and make it work without being official in my opinion.

[MicheleinMN]

Personally I don't see red flags, but Paypal fees do cut into used sellers making money. I would ask to pay for insurance over covering paypal fees, but that's my choice. And sellers these days really need to cover not only the paypal fees, but also insurance because the seller loses all if the package doesn't arrive.

 

Just a different perspective. Glad to know that I will need to adjust my prices in order to cover paypal and insurance expenses if I want to accept paypal payments anymore.

[Kathryn]

Personally I don't see red flags, but Paypal fees do cut into used sellers making money. I would ask to pay for insurance over covering paypal fees, but that's my choice. And sellers these days really need to cover not only the paypal fees, but also insurance because the seller loses all if the package doesn't arrive.

 

Just a different perspective. Glad to know that I will need to adjust my prices in order to cover paypal and insurance expenses if I want to accept paypal payments anymore.

 

The sites that I've used that require paypal goods payments require delivery confirmation as well (which is free through paypal shipping). Insurance is extra, paid by the buyer.

[milovany]

I'm sorry I haven't read other replies, will try to in a bit --

 

No, I don't see red flags and I'm one who requests personal PayPal. I've been a seller for 10+ years and have never ripped anyone off (and have bought things for the same amount of time and have never been ripped off). When I price things, I don't take fees into consideration. I imagine I should just price things a little higher, but getting things sold is more important to me than only taking non-personal PayPal. I've only lost one sale that I'm aware of because I don't take non-personal PayPal.

 

ETA -- I didn't realize the user agreement had changed and will look into it.

Edited July 23, 2012 by milovaný

[amy g.]

Asking a buyer to choose the personal option is COMPLETELY against paypal's rules. Why do people have a PayPal account if they don't know the rules or are not willing to follow them?

 

I've posted about this before. I'd take a screen shot of the request, forward it to PayPal, and have the sellers privileges revoked.

[TKDmom]

I don't see red flags. I just figure that they are ignorant of the rules. I used to ask for personal paypal, until I realized that it might be a problem. Now I try to consider the cost of fees when I set a price on something.

 

If someone had specifically asked for a personal payment, I'd probaly offer to pay the fees for a purchase. Unless you are making a large purchase, the fees seem pretty minimal to me.

[BugsMama]

I've sold and purchased quite a bit on paypal (always clicking goods) and have never noticed the fees- am I missing them somewhere, or do they only show up for certain payment types?

[TKDmom]

I've sold and purchased quite a bit on paypal (always clicking goods) and have never noticed the fees- am I missing them somewhere, or do they only show up for certain payment types?

 

They subtract the fees from your total when someone else sends money to you for a purchase. The buyer is not charged a fee, and you may not have noticed it when you are a seller.

 

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

[shanvan]

I want to add that I did not intend to discredit the seller, and i apologize if my posts did so. As I said, 100% positive feedback and many posts joining in many threads, so clearly not a dealer or someone out to make a quick buck. It is my past experience that makes me pause when being asked to send personal payment. I never thought of it as a sign of trust regarding people on these boards. But, there are only a couple of people here I've interacted with enough to actually feel like I 'know' them. Now, I will bow out of the conversation so as to avoid any further offense. I have deleted as many of my previous posts as possible out of respect for the seller.

Edited July 23, 2012 by shanvan

[joyfulhomeschooler]

I want to add that I did not intend to discredit the seller, and i apologize if my posts did so. As I said, 100% positive feedback and many posts joining in many threads, so clearly not a dealer or someone out to make a quick buck. It is my past experience that makes me pause when being asked to send personal payment. I never thought of it as a sign of trust regarding people on these boards. But, there are only a couple of people here I've interacted with enough to actually feel like I 'know' them. Now, I will bow out of the conversation so as to avoid any further offense. I have deleted as many of my previous posts as possible out of respect for the seller.

 

This is really respectful of you :) It makes me smile to read about homeschoolers having this amount of respect for eachother.

[Kathryn]

I want to add that I did not intend to discredit the seller, and i apologize if my posts did so. As I said, 100% positive feedback and many posts joining in many threads, so clearly not a dealer or someone out to make a quick buck. It is my past experience that makes me pause when being asked to send personal payment. I never thought of it as a sign of trust regarding people on these boards. But, there are only a couple of people here I've interacted with enough to actually feel like I 'know' them. Now, I will bow out of the conversation so as to avoid any further offense. I have deleted as many of my previous posts as possible out of respect for the seller.

 

 

I don't think anyone thought you did. You didn't reveal her identity or say anything disparaging about her.

[stripe]

The buyer could also calculate the fees and voluntarily add them in (=pay more than what was asked by the seller) so that the buyer would get more money and the seller would have protection. I haven't had anyone complain the few times I've done it. It's not against paypal policy to pay more than the asking price as far as I know.

 

The seller should take into account all costs (including shipping and fees) when setting the price.

 

I think it's unfortunate that PayPal started asking for fees for this, though. But there is no end to corporations' desire to collect.

[Cindy in FL.]

Is requesting personal Paypal the same as saying non-credit Paypal? I'm easily confused, but just want to list things correctly in the future.

 

Cindy

Edited July 23, 2012 by Cindy in FL.

[Catwoman]

Asking a buyer to choose the personal option is COMPLETELY against paypal's rules. Why do people have a PayPal account if they don't know the rules or are not willing to follow them?

 

 

Absolutely.

 

And if they know enough to ask for the personal option, I'm willing to bet that in most cases, they also know the difference in the fees. :glare:

[milovany]

Asking a buyer to choose the personal option is COMPLETELY against paypal's rules. Why do people have a PayPal account if they don't know the rules or are not willing to follow them?

 

I've posted about this before. I'd take a screen shot of the request, forward it to PayPal, and have the sellers privileges revoked.

 

:confused: You can't address the person first with information? I've used PayPal for something like 8-10 years and don't go back to regularly read their policies. It's kind of a non-thought to me as I go about my day. It's a tool I use occasionally and don't put much thought into it. So if I were the seller in this situation, I'd certainly appreciate helpful information and not a harsh reaction such as what you describe.

[ByGrace3]

I will not pay personal or accept personal. It is against pp rules and you have no recourse. I also don't pay fees. It is against pp rules to ask for them, and honestly it bugs me. It has nothing to do with trust, it has to do with following the rules and smart business.

[indigomama]

Is requesting personal Paypal the same as saying non-credit Paypal? I'm easily confused, but just want to list things correctly in the future.

 

Cindu

 

No, it's different. However, I don't understand why people ask for non-credit card paypal, because the seller gets charged whether the person pays with funded or credit card payments.

[milovany]

No, it's different. However, I don't understand why people ask for non-credit card paypal, because the seller gets charged whether the person pays with funded or credit card payments.

 

It used to be that if you accepted a credit card payment, you had to change your account from personal to business (and then had accompanying fees). It's not done that way anymore, but the vocabulary is still out there.

[Cindy in FL.]

Thanks for the info. I did it because I did not understand how it worked. Now that I do I see that it's not a big deal.

 

Cindy

 

 

No, it's different. However, I don't understand why people ask for non-credit card paypal, because the seller gets charged whether the person pays with funded or credit card payments.

[Shelly in IL]

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Edited July 23, 2012 by Shelly in IL

[Kathryn]

Shelly, that's exactly why it should just be a board rule stickied at the top as it is on other forums. I don't know who knows the rules and doesn't care and who just doesn't know. After three years, I assume most know and don't care. I'm not going to personally message each "offender" to tell them and anger a bunch of people. I'm just not going to buy from them. I always figure that the people who say "non-credit card" PayPal really ARE just behind the times.

[Shelly in IL]

I am a responsible Paypal person, and I don't want them to come back on me and revoke my privilege.

[Soror]

I don't automatically think someone is sinister. I asked for pp a few times at the beginning of selling as it seemed that is what everyone does. After a few threads irt this I stopped. However, I'm always thrilled if someone chooses on their own to send money via pp as it saves me money though(and I sometimes do as well if I "know" the person pretty well). The extra fees stink but I just figure it is a cost of doing business.

[Kathryn]

Sorry, I didn't realize I had quoted you earlier! I was confused, thinking you thought I quoted yours on the last page. I did. :)