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Kindergarten, OG reading curriculum, help


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Help me make the decision. So, you talked me out of SSRW and after reading some reviews, I concur. ;) Today I specifically looked at Spaulding, Wilson, Go Phonics, Burton Reading, All About Reading, and Saxon Phonics. I now need you to talk me into one, and out ofthe others. :D I don't know enough about Burton to make a decision. Saxon is supposed to be good, but I don't know if it is OG or not, but I love that it is one of the least expensive choices and has a good reputation. Wilson for K is nice, but quite expensive. Go Phonics looked great but is also quite expensive. Spalding is middle of the road cost wise and has a good reputation. All About Reading - well, Oh!Elizabeth, do you think that everyone will need to make great changes?

 

DD5 is 5. We don't know that there will be academic issues, but honestly, I expect them due to her previous history. I want to get started right and hopefully find something we can stay with. Interestingly, when I spoke to my son's reading tutor, she suggested the BJU reading program for K and 1st. She is going to lend me a copy of a program written by the Scottish Rite for young dyslexics, or those considered at risk, called Pre-Flight.

 

Anything else I need to know to muddy the water? Other than I See Sam....

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My favorite for that age is.....I See Sam:) . I've gotten many k'ers going with it. Barton, in my opinion, would be boring for that age and in level 2 it assumes capitals are known. I See Sam drips these things in to the reading in tiny increments. You could make ISS multisensory. I had to do that with some severe kids and I blended in some of the Barton fingerspelling and segmentation methods. I just used the ISS sequence.

 

I have no firsthand knowledge of the others you mentioned (except Spalding which puts a heavy cognitive load on a beginner, in my experience.

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Nutty idea, but you should give Denise Eide of LoE (Logic of English) an email and see if she ever got done her K5 beta she said she was going to work on. If she gets it done, I think it's likely to be pretty good. It will have the phonogram-based approach (WRTR, SWR), some sounding out and syllabication (Barton hits, SWR doesn't), AND something none of the others have (that I know of), which is over the top lists to hit multiple modalities. This is HUGE in my mind, because I've got this kinesthetic learner.

 

But whatever. When I talked with her at the convention she hadn't even started writing, lol. But drop her a line and see. She might let you beta test it if she got it written. I liked her games book quite a bit (actually I've been looking for it for days, I managed to LOSE it, grrr), so I'm pretty hopeful that she'll make her K5 pretty cool.

 

If that's not ready, then get SWR and start there and just add the fun stuff on. Of course I can say that because I HAVE it, lol. Really though, I taught my dd to read with it and it's still the gold standard for me.

 

I haven't looked at the other levels of AAR enough to have an opinion on them. I'm doing AAR pre with my ds, but of course his phonemic awareness is so far from age-typical (to all appearances) that it's like asking my dog to bark in Chinese. I'm really not keen on a sound it out method of learning to read, but they do need to be able to do it at some point. I like the *pre* level work in AAR pre, especially the Ziggy stuff. You can look at it and see if that's actually the level your dc needs or if she's ready to move forward. I'm cheating, teaching him all the sounds not just the first sound. It's really charming though if what you need to work on is phonemic awareness. I'm not saying it's an easy or perfect fit for extreme SN kids, just that it's really adorable if it does fit your dc.

 

Unless you already own stuff, start with the simplest solution. Don't pull out a $1K program to solve what a $100 program might be able to do. Start low and see what the dc needs. At this age, I would say (just me), that if SWR or WRTR or something more typical won't do the trick, then you need to back up and look at pre or Earobics or some of these other things. I haven't done Lips, but it seems to be in that vein. I ordered Earobics (on the advice of our SLP), so that will be going in our mix too.

 

I really haven't looked at the other levels of AAR to have an opinion on them at all. *If* you look at them and they look like what you need, I will say that the Ziggy things are just very, very fun.

Edited by OhElizabeth
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Thanks for the input. You are definately giveing me more to think about. I don't have anything. When my son was K/1st we used ACE, ETC, Phonics Pathways, Alpha phonics, Rod & Staff, and some other things I think I have forgotten. I sold it all. None worked for him due to learning and vision issues so we eventually hired a tutor.

 

I think she is definately pre level. She recognizes most letters most days. She is a kinesthetic learner, as most 5 yr olds, and has vision issues as well (on the waiting list for VT).

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Spalding (note that it is Spalding and not SpaUlding :) ).

 

It's comprehensive, you'll never have to buy another book (other than the manual), it'll be a complete "language arts" course for many years all in one fell swoop, it's infinitely flexible, and it won't break the bank. :)

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You can also search "phonemic awareness" on Amazon for a lot of pre-reading books that are in the $20 range.

 

If it doesn't work you can scale up to more intense phonemic awareness, learning to blend and segment, etc, stuff. But it is what I plan to start with for my younger kids. (My son had this approach, maybe not good enough, I don't know, regardless he finished K unable to blend or segment at all despite going to a good part-time pre-school and full-day K with a good teacher in a good school. He also had some speech issues so I think that was part of it, plus needing huge amounts of repetition and modeling to get the hang of it. I don't think it is his teachers' faults they couldn't provide it in a classroom setting.)

 

I did like Abecedarian, too, and AAS I liked very much as far as we got in it, but it got too hard around step 5 of Book 1 and we have not gone back yet (but I love AAS and hope to return in the future). AAS really helped my son with the letter tiles, segmenting, and is where he got started with CVC words (and successul blending!). But now I think I can incorporate that with other things. I don't know. I think it can depend a lot on the kid. But nothing mentioned seems like a bad thing to start with.

 

I responded mainly b/c I do think Abecedarian is a good program. There are samples available (abcdrp.com). It is very basic and slow and it was good for my son. But it doesn't seem to be one that everyone likes, though there does seem to be a core of people who have success with it.

Edited by Lecka
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Spalding (note that it is Spalding and not SpaUlding :) ).

 

It's comprehensive, you'll never have to buy another book (other than the manual), it'll be a complete "language arts" course for many years all in one fell swoop, it's infinitely flexible, and it won't break the bank. :)

 

BTW Dobela, WRTR tends to be at the library, so it's one of those things you can read and see for yourself. Once you "get" WRTR, you're going to pick up all these other programs with ease and see where they're going. They're all kissing cousins, half-brothers if you will. (same father, different mothers) And I think it's VERY important to know what the concepts are and where they're going so you can see where you're dc is in the process. WRTR for instance is all there conceptually, but it doesn't back up and spend as much time on certain steps (building phonemic awareness) as a SN dc might need in a particular situation. So if you get that overview in WRTR, then you can back up and see where your dc is in that process and where some of these extras that the big guns and canons here bring in can help with. There are no puppets in WRTR. :D

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BTW Dobela, WRTR tends to be at the library, so it's one of those things you can read and see for yourself. Once you "get" WRTR, you're going to pick up all these other programs with ease and see where they're going. They're all kissing cousins, half-brothers if you will. (same father, different mothers) And I think it's VERY important to know what the concepts are and where they're going so you can see where you're dc is in the process. WRTR for instance is all there conceptually, but it doesn't back up and spend as much time on certain steps (building phonemic awareness) as a SN dc might need in a particular situation. So if you get that overview in WRTR, then you can back up and see where your dc is in that process and where some of these extras that the big guns and canons here bring in can help with. There are no puppets in WRTR. :D
See, I am starting to think that I am the one who needs the puppets lol.
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I just looked at Logic of English. A lot of things about it look good.

 

However my son does not learn phonograms from flashcards. It does not happen. It does not work. This is my son.

 

So for me -- knowing this -- I would pass it by for him.

 

But for another child, even one of my own kids? I would try phonogram flashcards again.

 

But if you get to a point where you just realize, okay, phonogram flashcards are not happening, then you look for a program without phonogram flashcards.

 

With Abecedarian Level B you look at the phonograms in a key word, then on a page without a keyword..... and I don't know why my son responded very well to that but not flashcards, I only know he did, and so I like Abecedarian.

 

But once you get started and see if a certain aspect of a program is not working, you can adjust from there. I don't know of a way to predict what will work ahead of time for some things like that.

 

(FTR it was the phonogram cards from AAS that I tried and he just did not get anything from them. They were good for review, I am in favor of them for review, but for introducing, not good for him. I did like going through the cards for him to practice blending CVC also, that was really good. But not how he learned to blend, and not how he learned any phonograms.)

 

But obviously many kids do great with phonogram cards! This was just my one son.

Edited by Lecka
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Lecka, I'm totally with you on the frustration that curricula don't break things down enough, don't use enough modalities, etc. However LoE actually *does* make a concerted effort to appeal to multiple modalities. For each section it actually goes through the modalities and lists suggestions. It's a strong point for it.

 

Not saying it's what the op needs, lol. And btw, LoE has a phonogram book of activities that is quite good. I bought it and now need to scurry around my basement and figure out where I put it!

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I'll tell you what finally worked for my dyslexic and it was First Start Reading combined with SRA Phonics or basically Memoria Press K. The reading and writing are at the same level, so the whole year is spent on short vowel sounds, which was tough to find in a phonics program actually. There is quite a bit of writing, but I only had ds do the writing in the SRA phonics workbook (not the writing in FSR), which re-enforced the sounds being learned. I also slowed down the schedule so he didn't do more than a page of writing a day. FSR uses Blend Phonics as part of the program, and the patterns were key to ds learning to read. I think the slow pace of the program really helped though.

 

FWIW, my ds doesn't learn anything from phonogram flashcards either. It is pretty much the worst way to teach him.

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Thanks, Elizabeth. I will look at LOE more.

I just saw it and thought it might be another program heavy on flashcards. I will look into it again!

 

I'm using LOE with my older ds who's an excellent reader, but still struggles with spelling. (I do not believe he has a learning disability. He's just not a visual learner like I am.)

 

I'd planned on using it with my special needs 6.5yo, but decided against it as a reading program.

 

My issue is that it makes leaps sometimes, with no previous explicit instruction. For example, Lesson 2 includes the words "string" and "strong." The previous lesson included some words with ending blends ("fast"), but the leap to 3 letter blends with /r/ in them is too much (especially considering that he can't even *say* r blends properly yet!).

 

While my 6.5yo is progressing very well in his reading, and was able to sound those out, then go from the word approximation to the word, I decided to shelve LOE as his phonics curriculum for now. I think he needs slower, more explicit instruction.

 

If I had the time, I could probably slow down and flesh out LOE with other resources, to turn it into a solid program that would work for him, but I'm already spread too thinly. We'll work through something else for another year or so before I work through LOE with him.

 

In the meantime, it's working *beautifully* for my 11yo.

 

Edited to add: The phonics games book is a huge hit with both of my boys!

Edited by sailmom
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I agree with Shay that I would try the I See Sam books. http://www.3rsplus.com or http://www.iseesam.com You can get the first 2 sets to print off for free so you could try a few and see how it does. If you look under case studies on the 3rsplus site you will see an article about my girls.

 

I like it as it is super simple, nothing else needed but a 3x5 card and no prior knowledge needed.

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I spent a very long time yesterday with my son's former reading tutor after calling her and asking for advice. She sent me home with a huge amount of pre-reading phonemic awareness materials for me to use. It is a combination of ABeCeDarian, Scottish Rite Pre-Flight, and a couple of other materials with tons of simple, yet fun manipulatives that I think will work beautifully for us. Our first focus will be making certain that dd can concretely identify all letters and make sure she knows their sequence inside out, forwards and backwards, understand rhymes, and so on. Once she has matered this material we will move to something else, which is yet to be determined. For me, the bigger benefit of using the materials from our tutor is that she can actually show me how to use it and be available if I need help. After 30 years of tutoring she also gave me what has been most effective for her over the years for a large number of kids. Not to mention, if this doesn't work, I have only invested my time.

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Our first focus will be making certain that dd can concretely identify all letters and make sure she knows their sequence inside out, forwards and backwards, understand rhymes, and so on. Once she has matered this material we will move to something else, .

 

Using stuff you have from the tutor sounds great. I just wanted to mention that kids can and DO learn to read without knowing any of the above skills. My daughter can read at a 4th grade level and can now name her letters and can say the ABCs in order but couldn't do much sequencing without the entire list. She sorta can rhyme now but she was reading at a 2nd grade level or above before she could do that.

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That's awesome!!!!!!!!! Sounds like her advice was exactly on track. Can't build without that foundation. That's where I'm at with ds too. We're just taking our time and working through it meticulously. Earobics came yesterday, so hopefully we'll start that today. It was $99, and of course free from your awesome tutor is even better! I don't think any of this stuff is better than another, just lots of ways of covering the basics that really HAVE to be there.

 

I glanced at the samples of ABCerian ages ago. I should go back and look at it again. Ds enjoys what we're doing, but I think it's going to be slow-going for the next few years, no great leaps. It has been sort of the 2nd reality check that we're on a different cruise. It's starting to feel aging, this whole thing of cruising to a different destination. I feel like I'm off in my own private sea, cruising around oblivious to the rest of the swirling ocean and the sharks. So not only is it isolating a bit (at least in your own mind), but it is just aging, a heaviness. I met someone else my age with no kids (not married), and she seemed so young and gay. Not sure what happened to me.

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