IEW vs Progym

[kristinannie]

At first when I looked at IEW, I completely disregarded it as a potential program for my family to use. I have been doing quite a bit of research about the progym and I know lots of people use that. I spent a lot of time looking at IEW at a conference last weekend and I think it looks very similar to the progym. You use the writing of others as a means to imitate and further your own writing. It just looks MUCH easier for the teacher to teach. I would love a comparison of these two methods if anyone has experience with these programs! I am still a couple years away from using them, but I am trying to map out our future!!! Thanks!

[Snickerdoodle]

Have you read this thread?

[Hunter]

I've tried a lot of writing programs. I have a habit of getting so lost in the details that I don't get the most important parts done.

 

After reading Write Like Hemingway I decided not to use IEW, or anything like it. "Less is more".

 

I've been playing around with the progym since the 1990s and never made any real progress though it. Composition in the Classical Tradition is still may favorite, but to be honest I seldom use it.

 

Lately I have been using the composition exercises in Climbing to Good English and calling it good enough.

 

I'm still looking for the right punctuation-pattern-based sentence composition curriculum to supplement spelling lessons, but haven't found it yet. The best I have found so far is Reed and Kellogg Graded Lessons in English.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Hunter

[boscopup]

I am still a couple years away from using them, but I am trying to map out our future!!! Thanks!

 

Honestly, I'd recommend waiting until you're a bit closer, so you can see what your child NEEDS.

 

I had plans to do WWE all the way through, then WWSkill, then WWStyle. Then I got to the end of 2nd grade and realized that my son needed something else to give him confidence. I had previously decided against IEW because of the bad things I'd heard about it, and now I was looking at it again. It's actually a great fit for DS1 right now, so we're using it. It's going great, it's EASY to teach, and my son is actually writing! With ease! I plan to complete SWI-A (I sometimes alter assignments, skip assignments, or sub my own material - all easy to do with this program), and I'll use TWSS across the curriculum after that, so "writing" will no longer be a separate subject but instead be part of learning history, science, and literature. TWSS makes that very easy, as it gives you an easy-to-follow plan, and the child has checklists so they know exactly what they need to do and you know exactly what you need to grade. I also realized after watching TWSS that a lot of the negative comments about IEW were likely from people who never got out of units 1 and 2. What they're writing during those units is NOT a final product. It's just practice to learn certain techniques. And the dress-ups also are NOT the final product. They are a tool that you require until the child can easily add them in, then you remove the requirement and let them put them in whenever they think they need them. Watching most of TWSS helped me see where the program was going and why it does what it does in the beginning.

 

I do still plan to use WWS in 5th grade, as I'd like to come at writing from different angles in the older years, but I think IEW is a great foundation for my son, getting him out of his writing phobic shell, and giving him some confidence in using various techniques. He's naturally a good writer, but when asked to put pencil to paper, he'd shorten his thoughts - even counting words! - so as to not have to write as much... now he's required to write with the dress-ups he'd naturally use anyway, so he's coming out of that habit. :)

 

Now why did I not go with any of the Progym courses? Well, I looked at them, and most of them had a child rewriting LONG stories fairly early on. I knew my son would wilt. I needed something to get him from copywork/dictation to rewriting. IEW did that, via the keyword outline. It's so helpful! I'm amazed at how much he can write with that. Also, IEW passages in Units 1 and 2 (where they are rewriting sentence by sentence) are only 6-8 sentences long. Rewrites of longer stories are done with a different method of keyword outline (not sentence by sentence), so you still end up with about 6-8 sentences per paragraph, with focus on one paragraph at at time. That's doable for writing phobic DS. :) Another reason I didn't go with some of those other courses is because many of them include grammar, and I wanted grammar separate. We already have our own grammar that we like, and we're often beyond the grammar taught in the early Progym courses. So I'd have to skip large chunks of those programs. I didn't want to do that. The grammar we use now takes a short amount of time and is very effective for my son, so I'd like to continue with it. I tried a lot of things before finding the right fit (most grammar programs move too slow for him - he doesn't need a lot of repetition, and he thinks abstractly already... he takes to grammar like he takes to math - very easily).

 

And I love lewelma's thread linked by a PP. I believe she says in there somewhere that she starts kids out with IEW in 3rd, then uses WWS and other resources later. So it really doesn't have to be "pick one". You can use different things as your needs change. WWE was good for us in 1st and 2nd grade. IEW is good for us in 3rd and 4th grade. We'll see if WWS is right for us in 5th. If not, I can continue with IEW (using TWSS and writing across curriculum) or add in ideas from somewhere else.

 

As an engineer, I need a writing program that holds my hand and is easy to teach and makes it easy to evaluate my child's writing. If a program doesn't do that, it's not going to work for me. I'm comfortable teaching math on up into high school level, but writing freaks me out. :)

[kristinannie]

Honestly, I'd recommend waiting until you're a bit closer, so you can see what your child NEEDS.

 

I had plans to do WWE all the way through, then WWSkill, then WWStyle. Then I got to the end of 2nd grade and realized that my son needed something else to give him confidence. I had previously decided against IEW because of the bad things I'd heard about it, and now I was looking at it again. It's actually a great fit for DS1 right now, so we're using it. It's going great, it's EASY to teach, and my son is actually writing! With ease! I plan to complete SWI-A (I sometimes alter assignments, skip assignments, or sub my own material - all easy to do with this program), and I'll use TWSS across the curriculum after that, so "writing" will no longer be a separate subject but instead be part of learning history, science, and literature. TWSS makes that very easy, as it gives you an easy-to-follow plan, and the child has checklists so they know exactly what they need to do and you know exactly what you need to grade. I also realized after watching TWSS that a lot of the negative comments about IEW were likely from people who never got out of units 1 and 2. What they're writing during those units is NOT a final product. It's just practice to learn certain techniques. And the dress-ups also are NOT the final product. They are a tool that you require until the child can easily add them in, then you remove the requirement and let them put them in whenever they think they need them. Watching most of TWSS helped me see where the program was going and why it does what it does in the beginning.

 

I do still plan to use WWS in 5th grade, as I'd like to come at writing from different angles in the older years, but I think IEW is a great foundation for my son, getting him out of his writing phobic shell, and giving him some confidence in using various techniques. He's naturally a good writer, but when asked to put pencil to paper, he'd shorten his thoughts - even counting words! - so as to not have to write as much... now he's required to write with the dress-ups he'd naturally use anyway, so he's coming out of that habit. :)

 

Now why did I not go with any of the Progym courses? Well, I looked at them, and most of them had a child rewriting LONG stories fairly early on. I knew my son would wilt. I needed something to get him from copywork/dictation to rewriting. IEW did that, via the keyword outline. It's so helpful! I'm amazed at how much he can write with that. Also, IEW passages in Units 1 and 2 (where they are rewriting sentence by sentence) are only 6-8 sentences long. Rewrites of longer stories are done with a different method of keyword outline (not sentence by sentence), so you still end up with about 6-8 sentences per paragraph, with focus on one paragraph at at time. That's doable for writing phobic DS. :) Another reason I didn't go with some of those other courses is because many of them include grammar, and I wanted grammar separate. We already have our own grammar that we like, and we're often beyond the grammar taught in the early Progym courses. So I'd have to skip large chunks of those programs. I didn't want to do that. The grammar we use now takes a short amount of time and is very effective for my son, so I'd like to continue with it. I tried a lot of things before finding the right fit (most grammar programs move too slow for him - he doesn't need a lot of repetition, and he thinks abstractly already... he takes to grammar like he takes to math - very easily).

 

And I love lewelma's thread linked by a PP. I believe she says in there somewhere that she starts kids out with IEW in 3rd, then uses WWS and other resources later. So it really doesn't have to be "pick one". You can use different things as your needs change. WWE was good for us in 1st and 2nd grade. IEW is good for us in 3rd and 4th grade. We'll see if WWS is right for us in 5th. If not, I can continue with IEW (using TWSS and writing across curriculum) or add in ideas from somewhere else.

 

As an engineer, I need a writing program that holds my hand and is easy to teach and makes it easy to evaluate my child's writing. If a program doesn't do that, it's not going to work for me. I'm comfortable teaching math on up into high school level, but writing freaks me out. :)

 

 

Thank you!