I am a Christian but don't believe homosexuality is a sin.

[Kathryn]

It is not the culture that condemns homosexuality. God does condemn homosexuality. Homosexuals practice homosexuality. Therefore...

 

This applies to ALL sins. If I "practice" any sin unrepentantly I am condemned by that. God cares more about our holiness than He does about our happiness.

 

Cindy

 

There are celibate homosexuals.

 

Again, the verses in question speak only of the actual sexual act, not of love or attraction.

[3browneyedboys4me]

:iagree:

 

 

I can't imagine hating anyone for their sexual orientation.

 

 

 

 

;) Just letting you know, as a Christian (of course I can't speak for all of them, but I suspect most would answer this way) I don't use any part of the Bible as justification to hate anyone. :001_smile:

[mommaduck]

Again, the verses in question speak only of the actual sexual act, not of love or attraction.

exactly.

[Cindy in FL.]

But then they are not practicing the sin. I'm talking about those people that want to continue doing whatever wrong thing they are doing.

 

There are celibate homosexuals.

 

I don't have the right to be in a relationship with any one I choose. God has rules. There are some feelings that I am required to fight against. That may mean that I never have the kind of relationship that I want in this life. Since eternity lasts so much longer than my earthly existence, I would rather have my best life then than now.

 

I also believe that God loved us so much that He wrote His laws upon our hearts. When we feel guilty over things we have done that is not wholly because of an intolerant society that hates us, but because God wants the best for us. The best is the way He designed His creation to work. The further we get away from that the more anything goes.

 

I don't hate others. In fact, I weep over people that many would be surprised by because I see the humanity and image of God in each person. That does not mean that I have to condone or approve of what they do. Nor does it mean that I have to pave the way for them to do those things more easily or with less guilt.

 

Cindy

Edited July 23, 2012 by Cindy in FL.

[mommaduck]

But then they are not practicing the sin. I'm talking about those people that want to continue doing whatever wrong thing they are doing.

I was going off of what you wrote. You wrote:

 

God does condemn homosexuality. Homosexuals practice homosexuality. Therefore...

Yes to the first sentence. Not always to the second. Therefore, the therefore what? God condemns homosexuals based on being homosexual or based on acting upon it?

 

 

 

Not to Cindy in FL, but for further discussion: I find it odd that non-celibate homosexuals are treated worse than heterosexuals that commit sexual sins. In fact, I have had people say that it is worse than nearly all other sins (including murder and rape).

Edited July 23, 2012 by mommaduck

[Jennifer3141]

Seriously? I like and love my kids, too. I'd continue to do so no matter what. Loving someone doesn't mean you approve of everything they do. In fact, it sometimes means you have to give them hard truths. Jesus said it, not me. Christianity does by it's very nature divide people. There are no two ways around that. Not everyone will go to heaven.

 

Cindy

 

 

Seriously. I find that thought process horrifying. Jesus wants to take a sword to my family?? Yeah, this is why we don't do Jesus in this house...

 

And the thought process behind the entire, "Jesus said it!" argument scares the wits out of me too.

[Cindy in FL.]

God condemns homosexuality, so if you practice that sin unrepentantly you will be condemned by that.

 

Cindy

[justamouse]

Seriously. I find that thought process horrifying. Jesus wants to take a sword to my family?? Yeah, this is why we don't do Jesus in this house...

 

And the thought process behind the entire, "Jesus said it!" argument scares the wits out of me too.

 

I have a son who stole from me, was an addict, and spent time in jail. I adore him. I hate what he did to my family, he hurt us terribly, and I always want the best for him. But I can't make his choices for him. I will always love him no matter what choices he makes, though. I am forever hopeful that he will lead a productive, fruitful life, but I could never, ever, condone what he did to us or anyone else.

 

It's not as simplistic as you make it sound.

[Nestof3]

I am responding to something far earlier, but I didn't want anyone to think that I thought the most important aspect of a homosexual relationship or any other was sex. I was only use that one aspect as an example.

 

I would assume that a person who was attracted to and enjoyed the company of a person of the same sex just like I would a person of the opposite would have to avoid that person in similar fashion to the way a woman avoids the company of a man she feels the same about if she's already married.

 

So, there would be no intimate sharing, no cuddling, etc. either for we would call a relationship an affair even if the people did not have sexual relations.

[Katy]

Hi. I only read the first 5 pages of discussion, and I haven't read any books about Paul being gay, but I have to admit I've wondered MANY times while reading the New Testament if he was gay. It just makes sense.

 

Background: I am devoutly Christian, non-denominational, but spent a lot of time in different denominations growing up so I've studied a fair amount of theology and done a lot of bible reading on my own. I am straight, and while I can definitely appreciate the form of women, I'm not at all attracted to them. I have had some gay friends in the past, though I am not close to any of them at the moment, mostly because of where I've moved. I've known some gay friends who were certain they were born that way, one who had very feminine mannerisms who was rather asexual and realized he was gay when he was older because that's the first place he fit in with a society, and one woman who'd had some trauma as a child, was afraid of men, and so was a lesbian, but it was not so much that she'd been born that way as that men terrified her. I genuinely believe some people are born that way and some choose to be that way not so much as a matter of free will but from the consequences of life circumstance.

 

Most of Paul's views are much like Jesus' - very liberal with a lack of judgment for sinners, anger at poor church management and hypocrisy. The law is made to serve us, not us the law; we have freedom to do ANYTHING, but not everything benefits us; do whatever you want, but don't be a stumbling block to others who don't feel free. Mostly he seems focused on knowing God, on having a relationship with Him, on obeying the holy spirit.

 

All of that with the exception of this problem he has, that he will not discuss, an almost obsession at times with sexual sin, a refusal to marry, having great affection for Timothy, and occasionally writing as though women repulse him (even though when as compared to the rest of society, women were practically equals in church matters). I think that the problem he wrestled with was being gay. I think in that time and in that culture, that was not remotely okay with early Christians, though the hedonistic culture of the Romans was okay with it. I think he was repulsed by the idea of cheap hedonistic sex but being in a committed loving relationship wasn't an option at that time, but that he wrestled with it a lot.

 

As for whether being gay is a sin - orientation and desire are definitely not. Hedonism and being promiscuous probably are. As for committed loving relationships and marriage... I honestly don't know, but I would tend to think not. I think that what is more important is to encourage someone to have a relationship with God, and that if the Holy Spirit moves them out of those relationships, they should obey. I think the relationship and humility are much more important than behavior.

 

And as for someone on page 5 who commented what that should mean when it comes to public policy questions - I don't think that the government should be involved in any marriages at all. I don't think you can legislate morality.

 

I've become more and more libertarian as the years go on though. There was a Southern Baptist who supported Ron Paul in the early days of the Republican primaries who had some interesting takes on why being libertarian is more Christian. I don't agree with everything he said, but he did talk about things I had never considered before: http://ronpaulflix.com/2011/12/the-bible-ron-paul-13-part-series/

[Jennifer3141]

God condemns homosexuality, so if you practice that sin unrepentantly you will be condemned by that.

 

Cindy

 

 

According to YOUR belief system. Obviously others have different belief systems all over the world and all throughout time but just you have been lucky enough to find the one and only right one. Yes Cindy, you are an example of why secularism/atheism is gaining in popularity so much and so quickly right now.

 

I'm not saying this to be "mean." I'm saying this so that maybe you will pause and consider that your attitude may be driving more people FROM Jesus than TO him. Because I and many, many, many others are utterly appalled at your, "proclamations of truth."

[Nestof3]

Really, the reason I chimed into all this is because I have seen a female family member "become" homosexual through the years. I was not close enough to her growing up to know how she felt when she was younger.

 

But, it was a conversation I had with a cyber-friend and just comments made by others about homosexuals that has just made me really start thinking about these issues. I guess I just hurt so much for him.

 

Cyberfriend

However, I find it unlikely that my preference will be changing. It's been the same since I was seven. This despite 35 years of religious and non-religious therapy to try to change it. There was a lot of "live as if things were the way you want them to be" and it will get easier. Prayer and scripture reading multiple times a day. All I got was 20 hrs a day of trying to control EVERY stray thought and action. "Cute ________ is going to be at the meeting? Where can I sit so that I can't really see him?" I got married because all Mormons are supposed to get married or you don't get as good a place in heaven as you might otherwise. I told my wife I was gay well before the wedding. She prayed about it and concluded that God wanted her to marry me and that he would fix me if I tried hard enough. We lasted (about 20) years during which I became an evermore emotional wreck. Always angry and withdrawn. I ended up in the psych ward three times in three years. Finally I said: that's it. I'm either killing myself or leaving the church which with my wife, also meant leaving her and the kids. I figured if the leaving thing didn't help, I could always go through with the death thing but there was no going back if I chose the other order. There is a standard line in a divorce decree that goes something like: despite the best efforts of both parties, they agree the marriage is irretrievably broken. She wouldn't let me have that in there because if I'd made my best effort, I wouldn't be gay. She no longer speaks to me and transfers all info through the kids. Fun

 

 

I know one. I went to high school with a very overt homosexual young man. He was very, very "in your face" about it. (I don't mean this in an ugly way at all). I always wondered if he was trying to convince others or himself, kwim?

He had a few relationships that I sort of knew about. 15ish years later, he married a woman he dearly loved. He never said that it had anything to do with a religious conversion and I never asked, not really my business. But i did make me wonder, did he truly switch or what?

 

The other "switches" I know of go the other way:

 

I knew a female couple where one had always considered them self homosexual, but the other had been married to an abusive man. She had 2 daughters and eventually left the man. She said that she just didn't want anything to do with men anymore, but had been 'very much hetero" in her words. The second female couple I knew had a somewhat similar story, only both the women had formerly been married to men and had bad experiences.

 

I have never met a bi-sexual male, but have met 2 women who made that claim. It made me wonder if that is a more common thing among women.

 

I don't know where I stand on the whole born/made/decision concept of homosexuality. I don't know that it is my place to have an opinion either way. The rest of what I think I generally keep to myself.:001_smile:

Edited July 23, 2012 by nestof3

[Cindy in FL.]

I do believe there is only one God and only one way to Him. Many others before now and in all time to come will believe the same thing. I'm not the only one. You may not intend to be "mean", but your attitude toward me and my beliefs could be construed as hateful and intolerant.

 

If God was willing to sacrifice His only begotten Son on the cross that I might be saved from my sin (and there's plenty of it) then I'm grateful for that. If Jesus was willing to go to that cross and suffer such a brutal death on my behalf then He deserves my gratitude and allegiance. I'll follow Him anywhere even if it means that people won't like me. I'd rather follow the perfect Son of God than imperfect people who change the rules whenever it suits them. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever and I find great comfort in that.

 

Cindy

 

According to YOUR belief system. Obviously others have different belief systems all over the world and all throughout time but just you have been lucky enough to find the one and only right one. Yes Cindy, you are an example of why secularism/atheism is gaining in popularity so much and so quickly right now.

 

I'm not saying this to be "mean." I'm saying this so that maybe you will pause and consider that your attitude may be driving more people FROM Jesus than TO him. Because I and many, many, many others are utterly appalled at your, "proclamations of truth."

[MBM]

Really, the reason I chimed into all this is because I have seen a female family member "become" homosexual through the years. I was not close enough to her growing up to know how she felt when she was younger.

 

But, it was a conversation I had with a cyber-friend and just comments made by others about homosexuals that has just made me really start thinking about these issues. I guess I just hurt so much for him.

 

Nestof3, do you know what type of non-religious therapy your friend received?

 

My ex-gay friend who went through psychotherapy claims it worked for him. He was not the least bit religious before and only goes to church services occasionally now with his wife and kids. They're not a very religious family.

 

Anyway, it took him about two years. Granted, it probably won't work for all, but it seems for some, it does help.

 

He did not change because of society's treatment of him (he lived in San Francisco and Boys Town in Chicago where gays are fairly well accepted) but because he didn't like how so many of his relationships didn't last or were unfaithful. He was really depressed about that aspect.

[Jennifer3141]

I'm confused as to how I could be hateful or intolerant when I'm not the one running around on the internet claiming god is going to take a sword to my family if I have a gay child. :glare:

 

That's quite the trick to claim intolerance when you are using your religion as a tool to profess intolerance of homosexuals.

 

 

I do believe there is only one God and only one way to Him. Many others before now and in all time to come will believe the same thing. I'm not the only one. You may not intend to be "mean", but your attitude toward me and my beliefs could be construed as hateful and intolerant.

 

If God was willing to sacrifice His only begotten Son on the cross that I might be saved from my sin (and there's plenty of it) then I'm grateful for that. If Jesus was willing to go to that cross and suffer such a brutal death on my behalf then He deserves my gratitude and allegiance. I'll follow Him anywhere even if it means that people won't like me. I'd rather follow the perfect Son of God than imperfect people who change the rules whenever it suits them. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever and I find great comfort in that.

 

Cindy

[kokotg]

I guess I'll start taking Christians who argue against homosexuality more seriously when those same Christians start trying really, really hard to sell all their possessions and give the money to the poor. When none of them have more than one coat, because the Bible says if you have more than one you should give it away. (I take that as a metaphor that means not just coats but anything in excess of what you need to survive in relative health and comfort). I don't know about other Christians, but to me the Bible is very, very clear that I should be doing these things, and yet I don't. Because it's hard for me. I like having a computer and going out to eat sometimes, and going to Disney World. I do give some money and things away to people who need them, too, of course, but certainly not as much as I COULD. I would like to say that I'm trying my very hardest to get to the point where I do this, but....I'm not. I have no intention of giving up air conditioning so I can give that money to the poor. The vast majority of my kids' clothes are from the thrift store, but they certainly have more than they need.

 

Not only the Bible, but my conscience tells me that, when there are children in the world dying because they don't have enough to eat, it's a sin for me to spend money in a restaurant when I could eat more cheaply at home. But it's HARD. And if it's so hard for me to give up my computer, or air conditioning, or buying a new shirt before my old ones are threadbare, how much harder would it be to give up on the idea of ever being in love or having a fulfilling relationship? Or children? I guess I'd think about what I'm asking MYSELF to give up in order to do what God wants me to do before I start asking other people to give things up. Or, frankly, even thinking privately to myself that they really ought to. There's also the whole thing wherein I'm with the OP in that I don't think being gay is a sin. I could be wrong, of course; I'm not God, and it's not my place to make those decisions for other people, only for myself.

[*********]

Killing someone who is about to harm your family is a sin, it is not God's perfect plan. Divorce is a sin, it is not God's perfect plan. Does that mean that you should avoid killing and divorce no matter what?

 

Uh, yes?

 

IMO, we *should* avoid killing no matter what, and divorce is only permitted in cases of adultery.

[Cindy in FL.]

Misquote often? I never said that God was going to take a sword to your family if you had a gay child. Jesus said that he came to bring a sword. Meaning that the Gospel itself will divide people. Some will accept and believe and others will not. That will be true even in families. If one of your children became a Christian and you did not there would be a "division" in your family. That would not mean that you do not continue to love one another just the same, but that that person's allegiance belonged to Christ.

 

My oldest son is not a Christian (neither is his wife) and I love him (and her) dearly. They do not live their lives in accordance with our beliefs nor do they raise our grandchildren in our faith. That is their decision and we respect that. We do, however, continue to pray for them, love them, spend time with them, and enjoy them.

 

I'm sorry that you misunderstood (to whatever degree you did) the meaning of division.

 

Cindy

 

I'm confused as to how I could be hateful or intolerant when I'm not the one running around on the internet claiming god is going to take a sword to my family if I have a gay child. :glare:

 

That's quite the trick to claim intolerance when you are using your religion as a tool to profess intolerance of homosexuals.

[3browneyedboys4me]

:iagree:

 

You were completely misquoted and understood. It was very obvious to me what you were saying. :grouphug:

 

 

 

Misquote often? I never said that God was going to take a sword to your family if you had a gay child. Jesus said that he came to bring a sword. Meaning that the Gospel itself will divide people. Some will accept and believe and others will not. That will be true even in families. If one of your children became a Christian and you did not there would be a "division" in your family. That would not mean that you do not continue to love one another just the same, but that that person's allegiance belonged to Christ.

 

My oldest son is not a Christian (neither is his wife) and I love him (and her) dearly. They do not live their lives in accordance with our beliefs nor do they raise our grandchildren in our faith. That is their decision and we respect that. We do, however, continue to pray for them, love them, spend time with them, and enjoy them.

 

I'm sorry that you misunderstood (to whatever degree you did) the meaning of division.

 

Cindy

[Lovedtodeath]

I am not picking on you, or assuming that you all disagree... just clarifying.

I think the issue here is more than homosexuality, but is really about literal or non-literal interpretations of the Bible.

But I do believe that the words in the Bible are from God. Taking God at His word has changed my life, and this rebirth has caused me to be MORE loving and LESS judgmental because I listen to Him and His Spirit instead of a church's interpretation.

 

The discipline to 'manage' ourselves. Once accomplished, you have a joy that only comes from within. A true strength and ultimate happiness. So many ppl feel that b/c someone has an addiction or problem that they are always destined to failure and a life of problems. That is just not true.

I can't manage myself. Fortunately I don't have to. I just have to fall on Jesus. Titus 3:3-5 and my joy comes from Him. Galatians 5:22

 

Since eternity lasts so much longer than my earthly existence, I would rather have my best life then than now.

When I had religion but not Jesus, this is what I thought. Now I do have my best life now. Because communion with Christ is better than any human relationship. Because His Spirit provides everything He promised. Freedom, peace, love, joy, strength, help comfort... NOW. And I cannot overcome my sins without the help of His Spirit and I will not expect someone else to.

 

I also believe that God loved us so much that He wrote His laws upon our hearts. When we feel guilty over things we have done that is not wholly because of an intolerant society that hates us, but because God wants the best for us.

True, but the guilt is there for a reason... to bring us to Jesus. Galatians 3:24

 

Not to Cindy in FL, but for further discussion: I find it odd that non-celibate homosexuals are treated worse than heterosexuals that commit sexual sins. In fact, I have had people say that it is worse than nearly all other sins.

:glare: I have never understood that. It still makes me mad.

 

God condemns homosexuality, so if you practice that sin unrepentantly you will be condemned by that.

But the whole world is condemned! It does not matter how much we try to do what is right, we will still be condemned. we can never follow enough rules to gain God's favor! It is impossible! John 3:18

[3browneyedboys4me]

Of course you manage yourself! You do it every. single. day when you decide on whether or not you will behave properly or poorly. If you are a Christian, you will use the Bible as a guide and for substainable strength. However, you have to exercise control over your mind- at some point!

 

 

 

 

I am not picking on you, or assuming that you all disagree... just clarifying. But I do believe that the words in the Bible are from God. Taking God at His word has changed my life, and this rebirth has caused me to be MORE loving and LESS judgmental because I listen to Him and His Spirit instead of a church's interpretation.

 

I can't manage myself. Fortunately I don't have to. I just have to fall on Jesus. Titus 3:3-5 and my joy comes from Him. Galatians 5:22

 

When I had religion but not Jesus, this is what I thought. Now I do have my best life now. Because communion with Christ is better than any human relationship. Because His Spirit provides everything He promised. Freedom, peace, love, joy, strength, help comfort... NOW. And I cannot overcome my sins without the help of His Spirit and I will not expect someone else to.

 

True, but the guilt is there for a reason... to bring us to Jesus. Galatians 3:24

 

:glare: I have never understood that. It still makes me mad.

 

But the whole world is condemned! It does not matter how much we try to do what is right, we will still be condemned. we can never follow enough rules to gain God's favor! It is impossible! John 3:18

[Cindy in FL.]

Yes, the guilt is there to show us our need for Jesus and drive us to Him. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

 

The whole world does stand condemned outside of Jesus Christ. Faith in Him does require ongoing repentance. Not perfection, but an acknowledgement of our imperfection and a desire to be conformed to His image.

 

Cindy

[Lovedtodeath]

Of course you manage yourself! You do it every. single. day when you decide on whether or not you will behave properly or poorly. If you are a Christian, you will use the Bible as a guide and for substainable strength. However, you have to exercise control over your mind- at some point!

 

The purpose of the Bible is to testify Jesus Christ and lead us to Him. If we are not led to Him then our reading is useless. John 5:39-40. I used the Bible as a guide when I wasn't a Christian. The Bible does nothing without God's Spirit.

 

I get very, very uncomfortable when I see people praising the Bible. "The Bible brings me such comfort." I saw someone post a Bible hugging someone in a picture... I see people saying that we should get our answers from the Bible... etc. NO! Don't you see? The cults have the Bible. They are missing God's Spirit. Scriptures that Christians post to give comfort didn't do much for me, they didn'tring true. God was not there to help me. I was alone. He was not leading me by still waters. He was not giving me strength.

 

But with God's Spirit that does change. The Bible does bring comfort. His Spirit bears witness with my spirit as to the meaning. My spirit sings with communion with Him and our spirits rise together inside me. And yes! He does lead me, comfort me, strengthen me just as the scriptures say... I know that those who have not experienced the Bible without Him just don't understand.

 

If we are lead to Christ, then we continue reading, but His Spirit teaches us. 1 John 2:23 His Spirit strengthens us, not the Bible.

[Lovedtodeath]

Jennifer, that is why we don't go to a church. Too many churches misuse the Bible... one of the issues for us is the terrible marriages that result from trying to follow a twisted headship model as taught in churches. I don't want my daughter exposed to that.

 

(We might still find a church. We are still looking. ;))

 

But as for the sword, I know what that means.

 

When I was free to talk to my sister, she came to visit and spent the whole time trying to talk me out of being a Christian. Now I rarely hear from her. Her choice. When I call I get voicemail. My mother, father, and brother have completely cut me out of their lives just because I worship Jesus. They did it, not me. Last time I visited my parents I said that I was just there to love them and check on them and see if they were okay and my mom said, "never do this again". They use that sword scripture as a weapon, thinking it is something that they are supposed to do... but I don't think Cindy meant it that way at all.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Lovedtodeath

[I.Dup.]

I guess I'll start taking Christians who argue against homosexuality more seriously when those same Christians start trying really, really hard to sell all their possessions and give the money to the poor. When none of them have more than one coat, because the Bible says if you have more than one you should give it away. (I take that as a metaphor that means not just coats but anything in excess of what you need to survive in relative health and comfort). I don't know about other Christians, but to me the Bible is very, very clear that I should be doing these things, and yet I don't. Because it's hard for me. I like having a computer and going out to eat sometimes, and going to Disney World. I do give some money and things away to people who need them, too, of course, but certainly not as much as I COULD. I would like to say that I'm trying my very hardest to get to the point where I do this, but....I'm not. I have no intention of giving up air conditioning so I can give that money to the poor. The vast majority of my kids' clothes are from the thrift store, but they certainly have more than they need.

 

Not only the Bible, but my conscience tells me that, when there are children in the world dying because they don't have enough to eat, it's a sin for me to spend money in a restaurant when I could eat more cheaply at home. But it's HARD. And if it's so hard for me to give up my computer, or air conditioning, or buying a new shirt before my old ones are threadbare, how much harder would it be to give up on the idea of ever being in love or having a fulfilling relationship? Or children? I guess I'd think about what I'm asking MYSELF to give up in order to do what God wants me to do before I start asking other people to give things up. Or, frankly, even thinking privately to myself that they really ought to. There's also the whole thing wherein I'm with the OP in that I don't think being gay is a sin. I could be wrong, of course; I'm not God, and it's not my place to make those decisions for other people, only for myself.

 

:iagree:

 

I certainly have no room to judge or proclaim judgments on anyone else. I am enough of a basketcase on my own.

 

And WHOA, :grouphug: all around. Jesus doesn't want to take a sword to anyone. He came to earth born in the most humiliating way possible, died a humiliating death, and loved sinners every second He was on earth to show us what God is really like. Jesus communed with the sinners, not the religious. He was there for us every step of the way, healing, encouraging, exhorting. He doesn't want to kill or take a sword to anybody. He WEPT when people didn't believe in Him or care to follow Him. If there's anything I'm learning about Christ over the years it is just how gentle, how kind, how long-suffering and caring He really is.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

If there's anything I'm learning about Christ over the years it is just how gentle, how kind, how long-suffering and caring He really is.

Yes, and no matter how many people misrespresent that, I love Him.

[3browneyedboys4me]

Understood. Whatever you 'use' to obtain your substainable strength- God's speed! I should not assume you are gaining that from the Bible. That was my bad. As a Christian, I believe that the Bible *is* God's living word. When reading it, the breath of life is in action and the Spirit of God is with us.

 

Cults do have the Bible. True. There are a lot of false prophets out there. The Bible warns us of this as well. That's why we are to study God's word. Not to lean on man's (or our own) understanding but our Father's. In other words, test our teachers, and not be sheep to the slaughter. This often happens when ppl stop reading the Bible for themselves and start following man's teachings.

 

*************

My original point being that we have to access control over ourselves. There seems to be a discrepancy in what we can and cannot control. My original comment was with regards to addiction and our perception that those that live with them are doomed to a life of constant suffering. I would like to just offer up that conquering our addictions and taking control is quite liberating and edifying. You actually GROW spiritually.

 

 

The purpose of the Bible is to testify Jesus Christ and lead us to Him. If we are not led to Him then our reading is useless. John 5:39-40. I used the Bible as a guide when I wasn't a Christian. The Bible does nothing without God's Spirit.

 

I get very, very uncomfortable when I see people praising the Bible. "The Bible brings me such comfort." I saw someone post a Bible hugging someone in a picture... I see people saying that we should get our answers from the Bible... etc. NO! Don't you see? The cults have the Bible. They are missing God's Spirit. Scriptures that Christians post to give comfort didn't do much for me, they didn'tring true. God was not there to help me. I was alone. He was not leading me by still waters. He was not giving me strength.

 

But with God's Spirit that does change. The Bible does bring comfort. His Spirit bears witness with my spirit as to the meaning. My spirit sings with communion with Him and our spirits rise together inside me. And yes! He does lead me, comfort me, strengthen me just as the scriptures say... I know that those who have not experienced the Bible without Him just don't understand.

 

If we are lead to Christ, then we continue reading, but His Spirit teaches us. 1 John 2:23 His Spirit strengthens us, not the Bible.

[Lovedtodeath]

Understood. Whatever you 'use' to obtain your substainable strength- God's speed! I should not assume you are gaining that from the Bible. That was my bad. As a Christian, I believe that the Bible *is* God's living word. When reading it, the breath of life is in action and the Spirit of God is with us.

 

Cults do have the Bible. True. There are a lot of false prophets out there. The Bible warns us of this as well. That's why we are to study God's word. Not to lean on man's (or our own) understanding but our Father's. In other words, test our teachers, and not be sheep to the slaughter. This often happens when ppl stop reading the Bible for themselves and start following man's teachings.

 

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My original point being that we have to access control over ourselves. There seems to be a discrepancy in what we can and cannot control. My original comment was with regards to addiction and our perception that those that live with them are doomed to a life of constant suffering. I would like to just offer up that conquering our addictions and taking control is quite liberating and edifying. You actually GROW spiritually.

:grouphug::) I seem to disagree for sake of clarity. I think it may be the Aspie in me.