Dianne-TX Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Without giving a book length explanation, my dd5 days old had become frustrated at nursing. She tries to latch, but doesn't suck long enough to get anything and then gets angry. I keep trying, but it's not working. We've been supplementing because she's lost 10% weight (6 lb 12 oz at birth/ 5 lb 15 oz at dr check yesterday) I talked to a lactation consultant and have been following a schedule of try to nurse, supplement, pump. Positioning is good, her latch is okay, but she just won't stay long enough or suck long enough. Any other ideas? Did anyone have a small newborn like this that went on to nurse better after a few weeks? I'm so discouraged and at times frustrated. I've cried everyday. At the same time, I'm okay if she bottle feeds , I just want her to gain weight and be fed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Is it possible the baby has tongue tie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KS_ Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Is it possible you have overactive letdown? I did with my dc and it caused them a lot of frustration (especially when newborns) because the milk would come out so forcefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busymama7 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Yes my last three have been similar and have all gone on to breastfeed for at least 2 yrs. It. Took time and patience but I was determined. Keep trying lactation consultants until you find one that really helps. Make sure to pump and feed baby because she does need to grow. It will help nursing to get a bit bigger to o! I used an SNS and it was very helpful. The LC should also teach you proper feeding techniques with a bottle if you are using one. It does make a difference. One thing that helped a lot with my last one was supplementing with an ounce or less of breastmilk BEFORE nursing. I knew she needed it anyways and it allowed her to fill up at the breast and be content nursing. It was psychologically better for both of us then struggle to nurse and then finally be satisfied and get full with a bottle. Feel free to pm me for support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justLisa Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 You can stimulate a let down yourself, and then when you feel it coming have her latch on. Also I would encourage BFing as much as you can right now and limit bottles as much as you can. Baby has to suckle different from a breast, where as the milk is like auto flow from a bottle. :grouphug:. It gets easier. A nursing relationship is a lovely thing. ETA: both my babies were born just a little over 6 pounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) Well, I would ask for an IBCLC and an occupational therapist. I wouldn't want a regular LC, that is a nurse who took a class. They are not a specialist. Is there a child nutrition office at the local children's hospital? If the baby is being given a bottle at such an early stage then nipple confusion is possible. I would try to avoid bottles and use an SNS. Edited July 21, 2012 by Sis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsanniep Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I'm sorry you're going through this. Nursing can be frustrating and you just want her to gain weight and know she's doing okay. My oldest son had jaundice as a newborn so badly that he wouldn't nurse. He slept instead. And because he wouldn't nurse, the jaundice wasn't getting better. I was so adamant about breastfeeding that I pumped and then we fed him with one of those syringes you use for dispensing medicine. This was all under the advice of a lactation consultant and doula. In hindsight, I wish I had just used a bottle. We went through way too much additional stress as new parents trying to avoid a bottle. He did eventually nurse, and then I had the issue of too much letdown and he would nurse, then stop because of it. If your letdown is too active, try nursing in a more reclined position so you're working against gravity. I don't have much advice other than that. But please don't feel guilty for using a bottle if that brings you peace of mind. Do what's best for you and your family. I didn't breastfeed my second child very long for various reasons and he's my more affectionate and creative child (it's all irrelevant). For whatever it's worth - your kid's future doesn't depend on whether you breastfeed or not. It's the parents that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLBMom Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I know some lactation consultants frown on them, but I had to use a nipple shield with my tiny baby. It was easier for him to suck with that. He was born 6lbs 9oz and was 5lbs 13oz at 4 days old. I had a really good milk supply which obviously helped. Do you think you are producing enough? I also had to wake him every 2 hrs to be fed. That is two hrs from when feeding one started feeding two had to start. It took 45 min to get him to take both sides so that's an hr 15 min between feedings. OMG I know..... Mine was a sleepy baby, so I had to change diaper, undress and do all kinds of things to wake him up. If she is getting angry is your milk letting down ok? Could you pump or manually stimulate to get the let down then latch her on so she doesn't have to work so hard? Good luck with your little one. I know the first 2 weeks of breast feeding is the hardest. For what it's worth my tiny hard to nurse baby weaned off the shield at 3 months and ended up nursing for over two years and is now a strapping 11 year old that I just bought a size 8 mens shoe for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rieshy Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 My 6th child could latch on properly, but not suck hard enough. Let down and supply were not a problem. Turns out he simply lacked the muscle strength (hypotonia). Ruling that out is easy- if your baby can suck from the supplementary bottle then hypotonia is probably not the issue. If your baby is having difficulties drinking even from the bottle then you might want to consider looking into hidden medical issues. With my low-tone baby I had to pump and then feed him from a bottle that had a nipple that I had enlarged by sticking a chopstick through. He simply couldn't suck hard enough without becoming too exhausted to continue- which of course meant he kept losing weight until we figured it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I agree with hunting down a LC that can help you *today!* (Do you have any friends who have nursed a few babies close by? Call them.) When mine were teeny-tiny I had to wear shields *between* feedings to help...um, shape...myself so that baby could get a really good latch. I also had to pump a little right before feedings, especially if I was feeling engorged at all. Sometimes the let down can be overwhelming. Also, make sure you are feeding baby at the first sign of hungry as much as possible. They are a little more patient with us moms before they reach "FEED ME NOW!" stage. :grouphug: I remember how stressful it is trying to feed a baby who just won't nurse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlifemom Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 No advice, but :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappyhappymama Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Getting milk from a bottle is easier for baby than from the breast. So if you are supplementing with a bottle, then your baby is probably getting frustrated that it doesn't come out as quickly and easily at the breast and is giving up. I would continue to pump and supplement, but use a syringe instead of the bottle. Also pump a minute or two before you start nursing, so that letdown has occurred already and it's easier for your baby to get milk at the breast as soon as they try. A good LC can help you figure out if you have overactive letdown or if the latch is off or baby is tongue tied or any of the other many things that can make establishing breastfeeding difficult in the beginning. I just had my fifth baby 6 weeks ago and I've had issues getting started breastfeeding with each one and have gone on to breastfeed them all around 2 years. I know how hard it is in the beginning, but hang in there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy22alyns Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Sylvia was born at 36 weeks, 6 lb, 1 oz. She nursed but didn't take enough in and lost quite a bit at the hospital. She was also pretty jaundiced. We had to supplement her right away, so breast & bottle until 7mo, then just bottle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chepyl Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I know some lactation consultants frown on them, but I had to use a nipple shield with my tiny baby. It was easier for him to suck with that. He was born 6lbs 9oz and was 5lbs 13oz at 4 days old. I had a really good milk supply which obviously helped. Do you think you are producing enough? I also had to wake him every 2 hrs to be fed. That is two hrs from when feeding one started feeding two had to start. It took 45 min to get him to take both sides so that's an hr 15 min between feedings. OMG I know..... Mine was a sleepy baby, so I had to change diaper, undress and do all kinds of things to wake him up. If she is getting angry is your milk letting down ok? Could you pump or manually stimulate to get the let down then latch her on so she doesn't have to work so hard? Good luck with your little one. I know the first 2 weeks of breast feeding is the hardest. For what it's worth my tiny hard to nurse baby weaned off the shield at 3 months and ended up nursing for over two years and is now a strapping 11 year old that I just bought a size 8 mens shoe for! I used shields with my first as well. We had a few issues, I was able to establish good breastfeeding with the help of the shields. At one month I was able to wean him off the shields. I also agree with trying to stimulate let down before putting the baby on. You can hand express a little bit or use a pump for a minute. I am sorry you are having a rough time. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staceyobu Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Was she born early? Or just small? I do think if you keep working at it, she might catch on in a week or two. She may just need a little extra time to get the hang of things. It sounds like you are working hard to get things working. Is your milk in? Did you have any difficulties with nursing other babies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Without giving a book length explanation, my dd5 days old had become frustrated at nursing. She tries to latch, but doesn't suck long enough to get anything and then gets angry. I keep trying, but it's not working. We've been supplementing because she's lost 10% weight (6 lb 12 oz at birth/ 5 lb 15 oz at dr check yesterday) I talked to a lactation consultant and have been following a schedule of try to nurse, supplement, pump. Positioning is good, her latch is okay, but she just won't stay long enough or suck long enough. Any other ideas? Did anyone have a small newborn like this that went on to nurse better after a few weeks? I'm so discouraged and at times frustrated. I've cried everyday. At the same time, I'm okay if she bottle feeds , I just want her to gain weight and be fed. First, 10 percent weight loss is ok. Beyond that is worrisome, but 10 percent is ok, especially if you had IV fluids in labor, which can artificially increase her birth weight. Second, have her evaluated by a REAL lactation consultant, an IBLC, today, or tomorrow at the latest. She needs her suck evaluated and she needs to to be checked for a tongue tie. Not staying latched is a common sign of tongue tie. It can be snipped in the office without any anesthesia and can improve the latch immediately. Also, can you get a lact aid supplementor, or finger feed or cup feed, rather than a bottle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Mom Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Eliminate dairy from your diet, maybe she is reacting to that. Other than that, keep at it. If you give her a bottle, then she'll learn that food will come without her having to work as hard so she'll definitely refuse the breast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I used to pump a little first so the latch wasn't so difficult to maintain for baby. Are you having over-active let down? That was a problem for one of mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I had 2 kids born 3-4 weeks early that were within ounces of your baby's weight (I think my first was 6 lbs 12 oz, my 2nd was a couple ounces bigger). They both were born by c-section and I was on several fluid IV's during the c-section because my blood pressure has a tendency to drop. Both came home below 6 lbs (they each lost like a lb). 2 things with them - because I had a c-section, it took a little longer for my milk to come in and I've read articles since that said baby's weight can get artificially inflated with IV fluids during labor or c-section. By 2 weeks, they were on the right track. My daughter had a particularly hard time getting the hang of nursing at first. She was bitter to be out a little early. :001_smile: That fiery temperament still shows now and again. I don't know if any of that pertains to you, but thought I'd throw it in if any of that seems relevant. :grouphug: Hang in there and I hope you get a quick turn around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justLisa Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I used to pump a little first so the latch wasn't so difficult to maintain for baby. Are you having over-active let down? That was a problem for one of mine. She said baby is not sucking long enough to get anything. Definitely try stimulating your nipples and then pop her on once you feel it coming. IF she is latching well like you said this may work. But for sure try to see someone sooner than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camche3 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I know I'm new but I had this problem with my 15 month old when he was born so I had to stop in to help. Everyone here has given good advice so the only thing I'll say is to see an IBC Lactation consultant asap and the one thing that helped me was, if you have to give a bottle, use a Breastflow bottle. It helped my son not get nipple confusion. I ended up having to exclusively pump (only do this if you have absolutely no other choice) for several months and he went back to nursing when he was older. We are still nursing now. Hope things work out soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I agree, get a consult. I also think that the weight loss you have had is not necessarily all that great - it's hard to say without knowing your situation but I wouldn't necessarily supplement in those circumstances. A lot of hospitals are too quick to suggest a bottle without really looking at the situation, just looking at the numbers without context. If I did I would not give a bottle until I had been seen by a consultant I trusted. For the short time until then I'd even use a dropper if that was all that was available, or finger or cup feed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycalling Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Try standing and nursing. Sway, sing, and rub her back like you would to sooth her and she will settle down and nurse longer. I've had to do that many times with gassy and colicky babies. It really works. I agree on checking for tongue tie too. I've had 3 of those and they are less patient at first. They do figure it out though, it just takes longer. Standing while nursing will work for that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmichigan Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I would get a consult and try an SNS system to supplement, it will still promote breastfeeding. I pumped after breastfeeding to provide for the SNS system and used formula only if I couldn't get enough breast milk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 My 6th child could latch on properly, but not suck hard enough. Let down and supply were not a problem. Turns out he simply lacked the muscle strength (hypotonia). Ruling that out is easy- if your baby can suck from the supplementary bottle then hypotonia is probably not the issue. Not necessarily. My dd had hypotonia at birth to the point that it prevented her from breastfeeding, but she could still drink from a bottle. We had the same issue as the op- she'd latch on, but just couldn't suck long enough or hard enough to feed. I ended up having to pump and feed her from a bottle (until I ended up on some heavy-duty meds and had to switch to formula, blech). We found out a couple years later she has a genetic disorder and that's what caused the hypotonia, but at the time it was very frustrating and no one could figure out what was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Pip Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Popping in real quick just to say - I've had 2 preemies (2 lbers); I successfully breastfed my last one, but it took a while. Looking back now, I could've gotten my second baby to nurse, but I just didn't know. I'll share my story with my 3rd, in case it helps... It took us 2 months to get bf'ing started. I pumped & fed by bottle. She couldn't really latch well at first. She was in nicu for 1 month. After she came home, I continued to pump, feed, and try bf'ing often. It was rough :( As she got a little older, she had a real fussy period every night for about 3 hours. She just fussed and was unhappy with everything. She'd want to bottlefeed, but not really, just little sucks here and there. It was like she was looking for some sort of comfort. I guess the fussy thing is totally normal for babies, and some people even call it "collick". Anyhow, I started using this fussy period to try nursing. Some nights she'd latch better than others. But she never really got very far on getting milk from her latches. Most latches didn't last very long: she'd pop off and on occasionally. Some nights, our attempts at nursing seemed to offer a little comfort during the fussy stage. Sometimes it only led to more frustration. I also tried nipple shields, although I was partially terrified because of all the warnings and bad stories, lol. I also continued to try to hurry up and get a let down during her short latch, so she could get a taste of milk. I performed all kinds of circus tricks to get that to happen! LOL. Nothing really seemed like it worked, but I stuck at it. As fussy periods increased, she began to latch more like once per night (this was actually progress!). But after 2 months, I was ready to throw in the towel. I went to an LLL meeting to tell them I was done and the baby was going to go on formula the next day. Well...all I really needed was someone to sit and watch what I was doing and give feedback. Her latch was good, but short lived. I was doing the right thing by massaging milk out as she latched. We were also having some occasional success at the nipple shield. So with that encouragement, I kept it up, and 2 months 1 week after she was born, she was full blown nursing!!! She nursed for 2 years and 4 months :) If you have any questions about my experience, feel free to pm me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 My nurse had me run a tiny tube down along my nipple so that kiddo could get a taste of what he was looking for, and that encouraged him. I think I only had to do it for 2 days. Around 6 days old all of us got the hang of it, I had plenty coming in, and he was livelier. He became a barracuda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Try an SNS - supplemental nursing system. This way, the supplementation comes at the breast so it stimulates the breast to continue to make milk. Plus, it helps eliminate the frustration. I would definitely make sure you are seeing an IBCLC, not just anyone who hung out a shingle. Most highly qualified LCs that I know would not have you use bottles for supplementation but little cups so that the baby does get used to the ease of a bottle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlifemom Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I wanted to add one more thing. I had no desire to nurse when I became pregnant with my 1st. I told dh I would attempt it, but not to expect anything. :tongue_smilie: Dd was born and went to NICU for various reasons. She spent 8 days there and I pumped but did not nurse her until the last day. She ended up nursing for a year and would not take a bottle until around 11 months. I loved it! That said, It happens and it's ok. I hope you get the answers you need and things work out for you. I do believe that sometimes nursing is difficult, but the difficulties can be worked through. I also know mamas who are committed to their dcs' health that could not [after many children and intense months long attempts] nurse them. I say all this to really say: Do what is best for you and your baby. :grouphug: [oh and I have heard that beer is really good for nursing. Not sure why but there you go :D] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathryn Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 My nurse had me run a tiny tube down along my nipple so that kiddo could get a taste of what he was looking for, and that encouraged him. I think I only had to do it for 2 days. Around 6 days old all of us got the hang of it, I had plenty coming in, and he was livelier. He became a barracuda. Same with us with DS1 before my milk came in (it was very late and he was frustrated). We were given a syringe and tubing and formula. When he latched on and started sucking, I'd push the syringe so he got formula. When he stopped sucking, I stopped pushing. We did it for two days and successfully breast fed for a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) My nurse had me run a tiny tube down along my nipple so that kiddo could get a taste of what he was looking for, and that encouraged him. I think I only had to do it for 2 days. Around 6 days old all of us got the hang of it, I had plenty coming in, and he was livelier. He became a barracuda. That is an SNS, a Supplemental Nursing System. I fought like hell to nurse ds and I don't regret one moment. I would do it again. My son has a heart condition and his body, at that time, required more calories per ounce than existed in breastmilk or formula. He would spit out supplemented breastmilk so I pumped then nursed so he got more hindmilk. Edited July 22, 2012 by Sis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besroma Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 How are things going? I breastfed five children, then had breastfeeding challenges with #6. She had a tongue tie that went undiagnosed for three months. Once we had her tongue clipped by an ENT, she was able to extract the milk effectively and started gaining weight better. You might want to ask a lactation consultant about this. My ped. never checked for it. The lactation consultant diagnosed it within minutes. She is fourteen months old now and nurses like a champ. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianne-TX Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Sorry for not responding sooner. It's been a hard 10-12 days and we've made the decision to just bottle feed. It was all so overwhelming to me and consuming all of me that I wasn't able to keep it up. The sleep deprivation from having to try to nurse, supplement and then pump just got to be too much. I've cried for different reasons now, but it's getting better. I was on bed rest for the last 6 weeks of my pregnancy, the last 12 days of it were spent in the hospital. All of it has affected me more than I realized. I want to be with my family again and all the feeding issues just perpetuated the loneliness I felt from being on bed rest. I appreciate all your help and advice. I wish the outcome was different, but all that matters is that she is fed and nourished. She had my BMW for two weeks and that's better than nothing. Now, help me dry up. :). I've been using cabbage leaves. How long will it take? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianne-TX Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 BTW, I did speak to 2 independent lactation consultants and saw one in person. She didn't find anything to help greatly. She did say that my dd had a tight jaw and her bottom jaw went in a lot and that could make latching difficult. She thought she might turn around, but couldn't guarantee it. She said to keep up what I was doing (which was nursing, supplementing, pumping every 3 hours) and to use a shield and then we would work on weaning get from the shield eventually. It just was all so overwhelming and discouraging and something I just wouldn't be able to keep up. I am glad I tried and went to a consultant because now I don't feel like a complete failure and that I tried everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justLisa Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Hand express in the shower just enough to relieve engorgement. I don't really have any other advice but it's good you made a decision you feel good about. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Sorry for not responding sooner. It's been a hard 10-12 days and we've made the decision to just bottle feed. It was all so overwhelming to me and consuming all of me that I wasn't able to keep it up. The sleep deprivation from having to try to nurse, supplement and then pump just got to be too much. I've cried for different reasons now, but it's getting better. I was on bed rest for the last 6 weeks of my pregnancy, the last 12 days of it were spent in the hospital. All of it has affected me more than I realized. I want to be with my family again and all the feeding issues just perpetuated the loneliness I felt from being on bed rest. I appreciate all your help and advice. I wish the outcome was different, but all that matters is that she is fed and nourished. She had my BMW for two weeks and that's better than nothing. Now, help me dry up. :). I've been using cabbage leaves. How long will it take? :grouphug: Having a happy (and sane!) mommy is the most important thing. When I had to stop bfing, I think it only took a few days for my milk to dry up, at least to the point that the agonizing pain went away. I don't know, it's all such a sleep-deprived blur, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dianne-TX Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 One more thing I learned from the consultant was that when all my babies have been born, (36/37 weeks), they've missed out on being fully developed for feeding. Those last few weeks are important. It made sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justLisa Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 BTW I just wanted to add that giving her your milk for those first couple of weeks did *wonders* for her :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besroma Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I am glad things are going better now. Enjoy that sweet baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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