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S/O Is it possible to go through life without judging?


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The S/O of the "blaming the victims" thread got me thinking. People were outraged that anyone would even think that it was inappropriate to take a 6yo out at midnight to a violent movie, but yet (in their mind) it was okay to turn the table and judge someone for thinking that.

 

I have been realizing lately just how often judgments happen. Why is that? In every, single facet of life. Even people who claim they are non-judgmental usually do so because they are in the process of judging those who are. :tongue_smilie:

 

Soooo IS it possible to get through life without judging? How?

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No, I think that is something you kind of grow out of as you see different things working for different people. Most of us won't live long enough to completely grow out of it.

 

But it's one thing to think something, and another to express it. There is no need to hurt someone over a minor difference of opinion, especially when (a) you know you don't have all the facts and (b) it doesn't really concern you personally. (I'm saying "you" generically.)

 

Now I am fully aware that the above is a judgment, but it's also something some people need to remember.

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No, I do not think it is possible. When people say they are not judging, I believe, what they really mean is that they have already judged and are setting aside that judgement in an attempt to be fair and open minded. To me it essentially means, they have judged, but will do their best not to let the judgement interfere with how they treat the person. Although, with a few people I know, saying "but who am I to judge" is really a thinly veiled insult.

 

If you never judged that means you can't really have opinions. And a person who does not have any thoughts about what they think is acceptable or unacceptable, beautiful or ugly, etc. might as well be a rock. Rocks have no opinions and do not judge. :D

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I always think of this from Pride and Prejudice when considering your question. I want to be like Jane, I think.

 

"Oh! you are a great deal too apt, you know, to like people in general. You never see a fault in anybody. All the world are good and agreeable in your eyes. I never heard you speak ill of a human being in your life."

"I would not wish to be hasty in censuring anyone; but I always speak what I think."

"I know you do; and it is that which makes the wonder. With your good sense, to be so honestly blind to the follies and nonsense of others! Affectation of candour is common enough— one meets with it everywhere. But to be candid without ostentation or design— to take the good of everybody's character and make it still better, and say nothing of the bad— belongs to you alone. And so you like this man's sisters, too, do you? Their manners are not equal to his." (Elizabeth to Jane; Ch. 4)

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No, I think that is something you kind of grow out of as you see different things working for different people. Most of us won't live long enough to completely grow out of it.

 

But it's one thing to think something, and another to express it. There is no need to hurt someone over a minor difference of opinion, especially when (a) you know you don't have all the facts and (b) it doesn't really concern you personally. (I'm saying "you" generically.)

 

Now I am fully aware that the above is a judgment, but it's also something some people need to remember.

 

Yes, and this is a much more important issue than whether or not people judge. I think it's far better to be aware that we all judge to some extent and make sure we check our behaviors and attitudes.

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So is it okay to judge as long as we don't voice our judgments? How do we not grow bitter and angry? I have a certain relative that tries really hard to keep her judgments to herself but she is incredibly angry and bitter and seethes with judgment.

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I think its dangerous NOT to judge. What matters is the qualities we judge based on. And to be aware our judgement can be faulty.

 

But every presidential election we are asked to form our best judgement as to who would be the best office holder. And when it comes to choosing a spouse, it requires a judgement call amongst all of the potentials. And most parents I know want their kids to choose their friends wisely!

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So is it okay to judge as long as we don't voice our judgments? How do we not grow bitter and angry? I have a certain relative that tries really hard to keep her judgments to herself but she is incredibly angry and bitter and seethes with judgment.

 

Angry about what has been done "to" her, or what others do that does not concern her?

 

I'm not sure I would call the former "judging." The latter - that may be fear. (Trying hard to think of examples, but one that comes to mind is the "anger" many men feel about homosexuality.)

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I think it is a maturity issue that some people just never grow out of.

 

Sure, all of us have been judgmental in the past, and will again, in spite of constantly trying to grow, and expand our opinions and see things from another perspective.

 

Other people are satisfied just knowing they are always right.

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Angry about what has been done "to" her, or what others do that does not concern her?

 

I'm not sure I would call the former "judging." The latter - that may be fear. (Trying hard to think of examples, but one that comes to mind is the "anger" many men feel about homosexuality.)

 

I do not know where her anger comes from exactly, but she does get very angry with strangers who she thinks are being stupid or doing things she doesn't agree with. I come from a line of strong, opinionated women as well, and I really don't want to grow to be more judgmental like I see a lot of the older women in my life being, kwim?

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Everyone judges, but there is a time and a place for starters. In the aftermath of a tragedy it is just better to keep those judgements to oneself. As well it is in how it is stated. For example referring back to the post you mentioned. It is one thing to say imo I believe children should not be out that late at night. It is another thing entirely to say such and such an action is inexcusable, or lacked common sense or other such things. both are judgements, but one is open minded, and one is not. The second one puts people on the defensive.

 

Judging is what we do as we discern the world around us, but if we are not mindful of time and place or of tone/approach one is apt to find themselves the most harshly judged of all.

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Everyone judges, but there is a time and a place for starters. In the aftermath of a tragedy it is just better to keep those judgements to oneself. As well it is in how it is stated. For example referring back to the post you mentioned. It is one thing to say imo I believe children should not be out that late at night. It is another thing entirely to say such and such an action is inexcusable, or lacked common sense or other such things. both are judgements, but one is open minded, and one is not. The second one puts people on the defensive.

 

Judging is what we do as we discern the world around us, but if we are not mindful of time and place or of tone/approach one is apt to find themselves the most harshly judged of all.

 

I can see this. I should not have used the word "inexcusable." That was my mistake. Of course it is excusable.

 

I am guessing it is just better to keep all judgments to oneself. That is so hard to do! LOL...I would rather not feel the judgment at all.

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So is it okay to judge as long as we don't voice our judgments? How do we not grow bitter and angry? I have a certain relative that tries really hard to keep her judgments to herself but she is incredibly angry and bitter and seethes with judgment.

 

That's a good question. I do think it is possible to make a judgement without becoming bitter and seething. I wonder if it has to do with whether or not, after making a judgement, the person feels that they must somehow exert some kind of control over the situation.

 

I have a neighbor who I think is way too wrapped up in herself and her own pursuits while her kids have babysitters and watch TV. I'm judging her behavior, but I don't feel the need to be vocal about it or try to reform her. I accept that she is what she is and enjoy the aspects of her personality that mesh particularly well with mine....they have very little to do with child rearing.

 

Other people I've met at co-ops or homeschool events and I make a judgement about them that they are so far from being like minded that it would be painful for us to try to be friends. I can still be polite and friendly.

 

A new family at 4H I began to be friendly with, but had to back off after I made the judgement that they are looking for people to use for free dog training and grooming, but they aren't willing to follow through and do anything themselves at home. I'm cordial when I see them, but don't engage in much conversation b/c I cannot provide the level of service they are looking for. In that case, my judgement protected me from a family that was looking to take advantage. But I'm not seething at them. Now if their puppy ends up a mess and they dump him off at the shelter, I might feel differently.

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Of course it's not possible. And of course it's good sometimes. I don't think that "judgment" is good or bad any more than "critical thinking" or "logic" or "taste" are good or bad. It's how you apply it that matters. And even more than that, it's actions that matter most, not thoughts.

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Is it judgmental to believe that some things are just wrong? I think we can separate (a) the issue of right/wrong from (b) judging individuals. Take the issue of how welfare benefits are used by some people. I may feel strongly that the law should not allow the benefits to be used a certain way. But that is not the same as judging the people who use it that way as allowed by law.

 

Similarly, I think it's wrong to scream at our kids, but I fully understand (from personal experience) how circumstances can lead to that behavior. Am I judging or not?

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There are very few people who don't judge and it is a severe disability. To judge simply means to choose. You see a situation and you decide whether you would choose to do that or not. I never thought much about it until I read how a man who had a unusual brain injury lost his ability to choose. He became totally non functional. He had no emotions and that meant he could not choose. It made me think how the Spock character on Star Trek and in fact all the Vulcans could not actually function. Either you have a program like if A then B or you have to make choices (i.e. judgements) based on your emotions. So if you dislike tattoos, let's say, you won't choose to get one and you may think less of someone who has one. But if you have no judgements (or choices), you can't choose what to do at any time, what to eat, when to wear, etc, etc. The man was much more disabled than someone who would have a more typical brain injury like one that causes a lower IQ. He really couldn't decide on anything and didn't prefer anything at all.

 

So with that in mind, I guess a normal human cannot get by without judging. How you do that is then the question. Take the example of the tattoos, again. You can decide they are ugly or stupid and not get one and encourage your spouse and children not to get ones either. Or you could decide to tell everyone to their face about how you hate tattoos including people who have them. They are both judging but with the first person, others outside the family may not know their view on tattoos. In the second case, lots of people would know and maybe some would be hurt by the remarks. We would tend to call the second person judgmental but in reality, they both judged but the only thing society cares about is not the judgement but the behavior after the judgement.

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The S/O of the "blaming the victims" thread got me thinking. People were outraged that anyone would even think that it was inappropriate to take a 6yo out at midnight to a violent movie, but yet (in their mind) it was okay to turn the table and judge someone for thinking that.

 

I have been realizing lately just how often judgments happen. Why is that? In every, single facet of life. Even people who claim they are non-judgmental usually do so because they are in the process of judging those who are. :tongue_smilie:

 

Soooo IS it possible to get through life without judging? How?

No, you are always going to react to things you think are stupid (texters who are driving, anyone? - I honk at them).

 

However, the kind of judgment you let go eventually is that kind that tells you that you are a better parent/child/friend/boss etc because your kid/parent/friend/employee (s) are "good".

 

Life teaches you.

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It depends on what you mean by judging.

 

When I hear people say we shouldn't judge others, I assume that they mean final judgments. In other words, we shouldn't proclaim that others are not saved or that they are bound for h*ll. We are not to judge others in the sense of condemning them or claiming we know their eternal fate. I think it is certainly possible to refrain from those sorts of judgments.

 

I don't think it is possible to not judge at all. In fact, we are all making judgments all the time. I'm making judgments when I choose my neighborhood grocery store over Wal-mart or when I choose a babysitter. We make judgments when we choose to marry someone or when we sit on a jury to determine someone's guilt/innocence in the eyes of the law. Unless I was in a coma or some other mental state where I was incapable of making choices, I am going to be making judgments.

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I think there are times in life when it is absolutely essentially to be able to judge.

 

I think one has the right to make judgments. For example, this man would be a terrible husband and father, so I shouldn't marry him. That person looks like a hard worker, so I will hire her. This kid looks like trouble, so I'll keep my eye on her when she's around my kid. That dog looks like it's about to vomit, so I will move my foot. However, some judgments are probably not so important -- boy is that lady fat! That man's green tie looks so stupid with his blue pants!

 

One trouble is pointing fingers and gossiping. However, there are times when something is not idle gossip. For example to inform a group that one of their members is on the sex offenders' list, therefore keep an eye on him and consider his access to your kids, is different than gossip.

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I think there are times in life when it is absolutely essentially to be able to judge.

 

I think one has the right to make judgments. For example, this man would be a terrible husband and father, so I shouldn't marry him. That person looks like a hard worker, so I will hire her. This kid looks like trouble, so I'll keep my eye on her when she's around my kid. That dog looks like it's about to vomit, so I will move my foot. However, some judgments are probably not so important -- boy is that lady fat! That man's green tie looks so stupid with his blue pants!

 

One trouble is pointing fingers and gossiping. However, there are times when something is not idle gossip. For example to inform a group that one of their members is on the sex offenders' list, therefore keep an eye on him and consider his access to your kids, is different than gossip.

 

One of my problems recently is that I am swinging a bit (or a lot) from the uber-conservative, fundamentalist world I immersed myself in for a number of years, and I am becoming exceedingly more liberal. I thought one consequence would be that I would be less judgmental with more liberal beliefs, however, I notice that liberals judge a lot too (I even saw a meme yesterday that had pictures of certain republicans with a caption of "this is why contraception is necessary") As cruel and catty and horrible as "Chrischuns" can be at judging, they don't normally go THAT far. So I was a bit disappointed.

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I think there are times in life when it is absolutely essentially to be able to judge.

 

I think one has the right to make judgments. For example, this man would be a terrible husband and father, so I shouldn't marry him. That person looks like a hard worker, so I will hire her. This kid looks like trouble, so I'll keep my eye on her when she's around my kid. That dog looks like it's about to vomit, so I will move my foot. However, some judgments are probably not so important -- boy is that lady fat! That man's green tie looks so stupid with his blue pants!

 

One trouble is pointing fingers and gossiping. However, there are times when something is not idle gossip. For example to inform a group that one of their members is on the sex offenders' list, therefore keep an eye on him and consider his access to your kids, is different than gossip.

 

:iagree:

 

 

We've lost the ability to rightly judge. There are some things that will never be right, ever and ever amen. No amount of PC will make it so. Public school, along with a sub par education, is the school of relativity. "Well, that may be right for you..." This is why a classical education is so important.

 

It will never, ever be right for a person to have relations with an animal, no matter how much they love each other. I feel free to judge the person who argues this is right. ALL ideas are not good, you know?

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I thought one consequence would be that I would be less judgmental with more liberal beliefs, however, I notice that liberals judge a lot too (I even saw a meme yesterday that had pictures of certain republicans with a caption of "this is why contraception is necessary") As cruel and catty and horrible as "Chrischuns" can be at judging, they don't normally go THAT far. So I was a bit disappointed.

 

I keep remembering the fuss they put up over Sarah Palin bringing her 5mo baby to the GOP convention and it was like 9pm. Really? Was he doing anything strenuous (being held in people's arms)? Did he need to get up for school the next morning? (I don't think that was really about bedtimes, but it was sad to see some women making it an issue.)

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there is a difference between discerning and judging.

 

figuring out what will work for you and what won't is crucial. figuring out whether a situation is healthy or dangerous is crucial.

 

blaming someone because they did something you think is nuts isn't discerning, its judging. watching the same event, and thinking "that wasn't so wise" is discerning... thinking "she's a horrible mother for doing that.... that's judging. clear as mud?

 

fwiw,

ann

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So is it okay to judge as long as we don't voice our judgments? How do we not grow bitter and angry? I have a certain relative that tries really hard to keep her judgments to herself but she is incredibly angry and bitter and seethes with judgment.

Sounds like a chicken/egg thing. Is she seething and angry because she doesn't voice the judgement or is she just an angry person.

 

I've met a few of those in my time. Nothing would make them happy.

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another piece to this is looking at myers-briggs personality types.

 

roughly half the world goes thru life making little decisions all the time. (eg. i like that colour; this meat is too salty; i'd rather be a dog than a donkey; i want spaghetti with three meatballs)

 

while the other half of the world goes thru life wondering what might be possible. (eg. i wonder if that colour might look good on me; i wonder if i put yoghurt on the meat if that will cut the salt; i wonder if that dog notices its having a wonderful life; i wonder what's for dessert?)

 

those of us who'd rather be known for our compassion than our justice aren't so often accused of being judgemental..... its more often being disorganized or "airy-fairy" or....

 

so i'd say its very possible to go thru life rarely judging (we all have our moments), but not so likely that we can go successfully thru life without discerning.

 

fwiw,

ann

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Just speaking for myself, there are times when I have an opinion but I don't feel any internal heat/anger/turmoil about it. I'm obviously making a decision about whether I'll do it myself, but I'm not terribly interested in other's behavior and I'm just not hot and bothered about it. An example might be the R movie thing. We're protective about violent or disturbing movies with our kids, in part because they're sensitive, but I don't really give a rip if our neighbors take their kids to a movie we wouldn't. And I'm sane enough to realize there are things we do (like my husband's swearing) that would shock others, so it gives me a perspective about our decisions.

 

But there are other things that do bother me -- and I suppose that's what I mean when I feel that I'm being judgmental (maybe rightfully so, I think, at least at the time). There was a recent thread about a mom in a waiting room who was belittling her son for liking feminine things. I think that would have upset me to the point I would have walked out, or said something. I've learned to watch myself when I'm feeling those sorts of feelings, because then I could say something inappropriate.

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I always think of this from Pride and Prejudice when considering your question. I want to be like Jane, I think.

 

And so you like this man's sisters, too, do you? Their manners are not equal to his." (Elizabeth to Jane; Ch. 4)

 

 

dear sweet jane. always looks for the best in everybody. even I daresay, bingley's sisters. she learned in the end how much their good opinion was worth.

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I think part of this is really a discussion about semantics: what does "judgmental" mean...etc.

 

I believe there is a difference between being discerning (which we should ALL be--otherwise we might get ourselves into bad situations! or become doormats! or be used! etc!) and being 'judgmental' in the way I define it. Some people may lump 'discernment' and 'judgment' together. I don't, but that's just how I view these terms.

 

To me being 'judgmental' implies a superiority in one's own point of view, and a condemning of someone else's view. ("What kind of dummy would....fill in the blank...." "I would never do that!! What a bad mother" and so on.)

 

Discernment is more like (and I have a child throwing balloons and another whining about a smoothie, so I'm not going to be too eloquent here...will do my best)--'is this appropriate for this situation?' To-wit: does this person have my best interests in mind? Is this film too adult in nature for my children? Does that person have a propensity to lie? and in light of these things, what do I do? (Those are non-sequitur questions but you get the point.) In these instances one IS distinguishing, but not condemning. If that makes sense.

 

I think lack of judgmentalism as I define it is something that comes with maturity and work. I do think it is possible to not be a condemning, superior personality. I do not think it is advisable to be a non-discerning person.

 

So yeah, I think it's ultimately a matter of getting semantics straight and then figuring out the answer! But my short answer is: I do think it is possible to be, and to strive to be (because we are, after all, humans) as non-judgmental as possible.

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No, and I don't blame people for having snap judgement but I think we should always be evaluating what we bother to look down on people for. While I think six is too young for my children to attend a Batman movie, my sister feels differently and her kid is her kid. Honestly, there's just enough negativity in the world without constantly thinking poorly of the people around you just because they are doing things differently than what you are doing (general you, not anyone in particular here).

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...it's one thing to think something, and another to express it...

 

I absolutely agree with this. I will admit that I have knee-jerk judgmental reactions to certain thing; I think that is part of being human. But I try to think or pray before I speak. Still working on it. :tongue_smilie: Someone once told me that it is not what happens to you, but how you react, that matters. So I try to practice patience and understanding with the young, the old and the foolish - for at some point I will have been all of these.

 

I should not be on the internet so much, but I am practicing patience with myself :lol:

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