WWYD - Henle or Lingua Latina

[Mom0012]

I don't usually post on this board, but my dd has the opportunity to take Latin using Lingua Latina over 3 years through a cottage school. The classes taught at this school have a reputation for excellence. She and I would take the class together one morning a week and then have about 40 minutes of homework a day.

 

Alternatively, I could use First Form Latin to work our way through Henle at home.

 

I guess we do have one other option. We could do FF this year and then do Lingua Latina over 2 years beginning next year. She is too young for the 2-year option this year.

 

Would there be a great benefit to doing one over the other?

 

Which would you do?

 

Thanks!

Lisa

[wapiti]

Alternatively, you could use Henle to work your way through Henle at home. She's old enough, IMO.

 

I'm partial to Henle, or First Form and Henle. Good luck with your decision!

I don't usually post on this board, but my dd has the opportunity to take Latin using Lingua Latina over 3 years through a cottage school. The classes taught at this school have a reputation for excellence. She and I would take the class together one morning a week and then have about 40 minutes of homework a day.

 

Forgive my ignorance, but what's a cottage school? I think we often put too much emphasis on textbooks and methods. How good is the teacher at the cottage school? How much Latin do you know? That's what I'd base my decision on. A good teacher trumps a bad book and vice versa.

[Mom0012]

Alternatively, you could use Henle to work your way through Henle at home. She's old enough, IMO.

 

I'm partial to Henle, or First Form and Henle. Good luck with your decision!

 

My original plan had been to work through FF, beginning this year. My reason for considering the cottage school is that I do not know Latin and assume at some point we will need a teacher, so I thought maybe we should jump in at the beginning of the sequence. What do you like better about Henle over Lingua Latina?

 

Thanks!

Lisa

[mumto2]

We have both courses. With the study guides henle is easy to do at home. With Lingua Latina we have stalled and moved on to other things. It is a good course.

 

I think the decision rests on the time commitment and quality of the outside course. Also cost. I think lingua is hard to do at home. I do think it would work really well in a classroom. Will you complete both books over the 3 years? If it is both I would lean towards the outside course.

[Mom0012]

Forgive my ignorance, but what's a cottage school? I think we often put too much emphasis on textbooks and methods. How good is the teacher at the cottage school? How much Latin do you know? That's what I'd base my decision on. A good teacher trumps a bad book and vice versa.

 

A cottage school is kind of like a coop, except you pay for your child to be taught be professional teachers. I am not usually lured by coops, but I do know the quality of the classes at this school are very good and I'm not sure we'll be able to do Latin at home beyond a certain point.

 

Since I don't know anything about Latin, I would not attempt Lingua Latina without a class. I had planned on working through FF with my dd this year and I think we could do well with that.

 

Lisa

[wapiti]

My original plan had been to work through FF, beginning this year. My reason for considering the cottage school is that I do not know Latin and assume at some point we will need a teacher, so I thought maybe we should jump in at the beginning of the sequence. What do you like better about Henle over Lingua Latina?

 

Thanks!

Lisa

 

On the one hand, it would be great to have the teacher. On the other hand, Lingua Latina is an immersion-style program, on the other end of the spectrum from a grammar-and-translation program like Henle. It's a different method of learning. I prefer the grammar way though I don't remember all the reasons off the top of my head, lol.

 

There is also a hybrid sort of program that looks very interesting, Latin for the New Millenium. There might be on-line classes for that...

[Mom0012]

On the one hand, it would be great to have the teacher. On the other hand, Lingua Latina is an immersion-style program, on the other end of the spectrum from a grammar-and-translation program like Henle. It's a different method of learning. I prefer the grammar way though I don't remember all the reasons off the top of my head, lol.

 

There is also a hybrid sort of program that looks very interesting, Latin for the New Millenium. There might be on-line classes for that...

 

I have gotten the impression that Lingua Latina is an immersion-style program in searching on the boards and from my limited experience with working with my dd on Spanish, I've learned that I greatly prefer a grammar-based approach. In talking to another mom who has her children take this class, they focus on grammar and vocabulary every week as well, so I'm not sure if this class is more of a hybrid like the New Millenium. I will have to do some more checking.

 

Thanks!

Lisa

[Mom0012]

We have both courses. With the study guides henle is easy to do at home. With Lingua Latina we have stalled and moved on to other things. It is a good course.

 

I think the decision rests on the time commitment and quality of the outside course. Also cost. I think lingua is hard to do at home. I do think it would work really well in a classroom. Will you complete both books over the 3 years? If it is both I would lean towards the outside course.

 

I will have to check into what books are covered over the 3 years. This school teaches up to Latin V, but they take 3 years to cover Latin I.

 

Lisa

[Susan of Croton]

My kids, now in 7th and 8th grades, went through Memoria Press's Prima Latina and Latina Christiana at home with me. I had Latin in high school so these programs were a review/refresher and laid the foundation for memorizing grammar forms. When we aged out of this series, I faced the same dilemma you now faced. I chose Lingua Latina because the Henle approach of grammar drill/practice was a continuation of the Memoria approach and the kids were beginning to rebel (by the end of 6th grade.) We started Lingua Latina in 6th and 7th grade, then, having had the benefit of three years of memory work and grammar introduction to the language. This proved invaluable. I think that the average kid would be completely lost in Lingua Latina without any preparation. I also think that if the kid cannot identify grammar parts there will be a sad reckoning and perhaps a dread feeling of no-can-do. With the right preparation, Lingua Latina is terrific. We worked on it about two hours per week at our own pace, reviewing and discussing stuff as needed.

[Nan in Mass]

How good is your memory? If you memorize easily and remember what you have memorized later then the grammar approach will work for you and Henle will be fine. If you don't remember later then I would go with Lingua Latina, which is more of an immersion approach. The immersion approach works better for the second foreign language, I think, than the first, because you already know some grammar (assuming you were taught no English grammar). If you know no grammar what-so-ever then the immersion approach might be frustrating. The immersion approach will probably work with no grammar but it is going to take vast quantities of exposure to the language, more than you can do without going to live in a country where it is spoken. Either that or you will need a teacher or someone to explain how the grammar works. (You would have one.) I did part of Lingua myself one summer and liked it. It works with the way I learn - lots of repetition and lots of actually using the language. I learn better working directly in Latin rather than translating back and forth. Things stick better somehow. I pick up unfamiliar grammar patterns quickly so lack of separate grammar isn't a problem. And I know the above is true of my children as well. On top of that, you would have a teacher, one that is known to be good. A good language teacher makes all the difference in the world. We dropped Latin in part because of time constraints and in part because it became difficult without a teacher. It is most mysterious. I'm not sure what a good teacher does that we don't do at home, but there definately is something there that we lack on our own.

 

Nan

[Mom0012]

My kids, now in 7th and 8th grades, went through Memoria Press's Prima Latina and Latina Christiana at home with me. I had Latin in high school so these programs were a review/refresher and laid the foundation for memorizing grammar forms. When we aged out of this series, I faced the same dilemma you now faced. I chose Lingua Latina because the Henle approach of grammar drill/practice was a continuation of the Memoria approach and the kids were beginning to rebel (by the end of 6th grade.) We started Lingua Latina in 6th and 7th grade, then, having had the benefit of three years of memory work and grammar introduction to the language. This proved invaluable. I think that the average kid would be completely lost in Lingua Latina without any preparation. I also think that if the kid cannot identify grammar parts there will be a sad reckoning and perhaps a dread feeling of no-can-do. With the right preparation, Lingua Latina is terrific. We worked on it about two hours per week at our own pace, reviewing and discussing stuff as needed.

 

I know the kids that take this class do really well. They teach through Latin V and their students do well on the AP exam. I know they teach some grammar and vocabulary during each class, so maybe that makes a difference?

 

However, I think I would feel more comfortable doing some Henle first and that it makes sense to get some of the basics down before jumping into Lingua Latina, so I am leaning toward starting out with that at home and then adding in the class. I think I am more suited to a parts-to-whole method and, considering it is required that I take the class with my dd, I need something that will work for me.

 

Thanks so much for your thoughts on this!

Lisa

[Mom0012]

How good is your memory? If you memorize easily and remember what you have memorized later then the grammar approach will work for you and Henle will be fine. If you don't remember later then I would go with Lingua Latina, which is more of an immersion approach. The immersion approach works better for the second foreign language, I think, than the first, because you already know some grammar (assuming you were taught no English grammar). If you know no grammar what-so-ever then the immersion approach might be frustrating. The immersion approach will probably work with no grammar but it is going to take vast quantities of exposure to the language, more than you can do without going to live in a country where it is spoken. Either that or you will need a teacher or someone to explain how the grammar works. (You would have one.) I did part of Lingua myself one summer and liked it. It works with the way I learn - lots of repetition and lots of actually using the language. I learn better working directly in Latin rather than translating back and forth. Things stick better somehow. I pick up unfamiliar grammar patterns quickly so lack of separate grammar isn't a problem. And I know the above is true of my children as well. On top of that, you would have a teacher, one that is known to be good. A good language teacher makes all the difference in the world. We dropped Latin in part because of time constraints and in part because it became difficult without a teacher. It is most mysterious. I'm not sure what a good teacher does that we don't do at home, but there definately is something there that we lack on our own.

 

Nan

 

My memory is no longer what it used to be! That is for certain. But, in starting Spanish with my kids, I found I am very much a parts-to-whole learner. We were doing La Clase Divertida and were expected to memorize sentences without knowing the meaning of all the words and without understanding how the verbs were conjugated and it drove me nuts. Then, I added in Getting Started with Spanish and it all made sense. (Not that I am that far along in Spanish, but I don't think I would have had any hope with just La Clase.)

 

I do think that they teach grammar and vocabulary every week in this class, but I'm starting to lean toward Getting Started with Latin and First Form this year and then taking the class next year. I know we will likely need a teacher at some point if we want to continue beyond the basics.

 

Thanks so much!

Lisa

[Nan in Mass]

I think your plan sounds like a good one. Those types of programs (I've seen French in Action, which I think works the same way) don't bother me. I don't mind seeing words I haven't met before, or even memorizing things and then learning about them later, when I have enough of them memorized that I am beginning to see the pattern. It might comfort you to know that Lingua Latina doesn't work quite like that, at least not at the beginning. With LL, the Latin isn't real Latin; it is contrived Latin, written just to use the words you know. I would compare it to Dick and Jane. The first few pages are very boring because you don't know many words yet and they are teaching you the endings for nouns, but pretty quickly, a story appears, one that is moderately interesting to adults. The new words are explained using little pictures in the margins. The new endings also appear in the margins. It does teach grammar. It doesn't teach grammar by teaching you a table and then having you use the table. Instead, it teaches each ending (or several endings) at a time and has you practice those enough to start using them automatically before it adds in more endings. In the end, you know the table. It is pretty overt about doing this because unlike French in Action, which tries to use real French, it is perfectly willing to use Dick and Jane Latin (perfectly correct but not the way any Roman would speak) until you build up your grammar and vocabulary. A "lesson" consists of a long reading (pages long) with new things explained in the margins, followed by excersizes that make you use the endings and the vocabulary. Definately more like learning to read with Dick and Jane than like learning to read by being handed the Bible.

 

HTH

Nan

[Mom0012]

I think your plan sounds like a good one. Those types of programs (I've seen French in Action, which I think works the same way) don't bother me. I don't mind seeing words I haven't met before, or even memorizing things and then learning about them later, when I have enough of them memorized that I am beginning to see the pattern. It might comfort you to know that Lingua Latina doesn't work quite like that, at least not at the beginning. With LL, the Latin isn't real Latin; it is contrived Latin, written just to use the words you know. I would compare it to Dick and Jane. The first few pages are very boring because you don't know many words yet and they are teaching you the endings for nouns, but pretty quickly, a story appears, one that is moderately interesting to adults. The new words are explained using little pictures in the margins. The new endings also appear in the margins. It does teach grammar. It doesn't teach grammar by teaching you a table and then having you use the table. Instead, it teaches each ending (or several endings) at a time and has you practice those enough to start using them automatically before it adds in more endings. In the end, you know the table. It is pretty overt about doing this because unlike French in Action, which tries to use real French, it is perfectly willing to use Dick and Jane Latin (perfectly correct but not the way any Roman would speak) until you build up your grammar and vocabulary. A "lesson" consists of a long reading (pages long) with new things explained in the margins, followed by excersizes that make you use the endings and the vocabulary. Definately more like learning to read with Dick and Jane than like learning to read by being handed the Bible.

 

HTH

Nan

 

Thanks for explaining how the program works a little more to me. Whenever I hear "immersion" I do not get a happy feeling, but I think the way the class is taught and the way you have described it may mean that it would be manageable for me. I do know a couple of people who have their children take this class, so I am going to sit down with one of them and go over the materials and hopefully get some more insight into how this particular teacher handles things.

 

Thanks again!

Lisa

[Susan of Croton]

Hi again. Some optional products that are sold for Lingua Latina are a CD of the author reading the first 10 chapters of the book aloud (great for "normalizing" Latin, and making it seem more like archaic Italian than an unreachable language and a college companion, which has grammar exposition IN ENGLISH, keyed to each chapter of the LL text. The companion has the comfortable grammar charts and explains a lot of the details, and has vocab lists. Invaluable to use after reading the Latin text. There is also a workbook with grammar drills in it; you could either fill in the blank or copy out the sentences. These are well-designed in that only one grammar point is reinforced in a set of exercizes. Sort of a Suzuki method approach to grammar! Good luck.

[Mom0012]

Hi again. Some optional products that are sold for Lingua Latina are a CD of the author reading the first 10 chapters of the book aloud (great for "normalizing" Latin, and making it seem more like archaic Italian than an unreachable language and a college companion, which has grammar exposition IN ENGLISH, keyed to each chapter of the LL text. The companion has the comfortable grammar charts and explains a lot of the details, and has vocab lists. Invaluable to use after reading the Latin text. There is also a workbook with grammar drills in it; you could either fill in the blank or copy out the sentences. These are well-designed in that only one grammar point is reinforced in a set of exercizes. Sort of a Suzuki method approach to grammar! Good luck.

 

Susan, that is really helpful!

 

Thank you!

Lisa