Jump to content

Menu

WDYT? Should this be illegal?


Recommended Posts

I just want to chime in here . . .

 

I am not saying how this mother handled things is right. But as a parent of a disabled child I think I can understand what may have been going on in this mother's head just a little bit.

 

Services for families with disabled children and adults in IL are deplorable. And more cuts are being made. Wait lists for housing are over a decade long.

 

 

:grouphug: and :iagree:

 

My first thought in reading this article was sympathy for the mother. I know that sounds backwards and might get me flamed, but as a parent of a child on the spectrum, I have an idea what that might look like. The article mentioned this daughter only had a vocabulary of 30-40 words. That is severely disabled. If the woman's other child is the same level of disability, I can only imagine what the last 19 years of her life have been like.

 

I'm not saying I would make the same decision, but if she knew the State would cover her disabled adult daughter 100% (as SKL said), and she was no longer able to care for her, then is this really the saddest thing ever or was this lady actually doing the best with what options she had?

 

I think it's easy for those of us with high-functioning kids to judge this woman, but having seen those with children requiring herculean amounts of care, I think I understand her motivations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is not the case here in IL with regards to pay for staff. I witnessed resident abuse when I was working. Here in IL a completly incapacitated woman was raped an impregnated by an aid. Not saying leaving a disabled individual at a bar is right. But options her in IL, where this woman is from, are dismal.

 

ETA working with the disabled is hard work, too. I loved my clients, but I had to dodge being hit, bit, pooped on, etc. The pay should reflect the possible hazards.

 

I am so grateful to live in MN. :( And the pay should DEFINITElY reflect hazards. I get paid more to work with clients like that. I am also able to decline to work with them, which is what I do. From the sounds of it, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the case management is much worse down there as well, making behaviors even worse. Now I'm just getting angry, ugh. :glare:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For the record, I would never, ever judge a parent who felt they were unable to handle the care of their child with special needs in a situation like this. I am just not condoning leaving a child in front of a bar. A hospital would have been much more appropriate if things were really this bad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

The fact that the mother didn't have guardianship over the child seems odd to me. If she had this level of disability, how was she not receiving services over the years? This whole thing seems so odd to me.

 

 

 

As a parent you don't apply for legal guardianship of a child until they are 18, and then you prove to the state that they can't care for themselves and have yourself appointed as guardian. As a guardian, the parent can still make decisions for the person like you would a child.

 

Sometimes parents decide to not apply for guardianship. On the 18th birthday, the person is a legal adult, with all the rights and responsibilities that go with it. The state can step in and have the person ruled a ward of the state, but then the state is accepting responsibility for the person. The bio-parent would no longer have any say in the treatment or care of the person. The state may let the bio-family have input, but they don't have to make decisions based on that information.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is why we have group homes, though. I work in an adult foster home (working with the mom's own special needs kids), so that is also an option.

 

I am completely shocked that people can't get a group home placement for their adult children in other states. :001_huh: I worked in a home with a girl with profound MR. When she turned 18, the family said they were done, and the wait for a group home would only be another six months. Not only that, but they weren't willing to wait that long, and were able to put her in an emergency foster home right away. How is this not available elsewhere?? :001_huh: This family had staff that was paid for by the state essentially whenever the child was awake, as well.

 

The fact that the mother didn't have guardianship over the child seems odd to me. If she had this level of disability, how was she not receiving services over the years? This whole thing seems so odd to me.

Virginia has group homes... in theory. Of course NIMBY movements get in the way of opening new ones and from what I read the waiting list is looooooong.

 

Because of the eugenics crimes this state perpetrated against lower IQ people, I am guessing the state has swung the other way and is hardly involved at all.

 

For the record, I would never, ever judge a parent who felt they were unable to handle the care of their child with special needs in a situation like this. I am just not condoning leaving a child in front of a bar. A hospital would have been much more appropriate if things were really this bad.

That is just it though. Have we seen the bar? Did it look like a dive? Was it dark? Does it just look like a diner and was this midday (few customers in the parking lot, but enough to be obviously open)?

 

We read bar and jump to a few conclusions, but not all bars look like bars from the outside in the middle of the week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another thought - maybe the bar wasn't the first place she tried to drop her off. Maybe she tried a hospital or whatever and couldn't manage it anonymously. Maybe the bar was a last resort.

 

I agree that "bar" is a loaded term. If it was "that kind of place," she wouldn't have been allowed in to begin with at age 19.

Edited by SKL
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another thought - maybe the bar wasn't the first place she tried to drop her off. Maybe she tried a hospital or whatever and couldn't manage it anonymously. Maybe the bar was a last resort.

 

I agree that "bar" is a loaded term. If it was "that kind of place," she wouldn't have been allowed in to being with at age 19.

 

Good point. Unless it was one that also worked as a restaurant she would not have been allowed to use the bathroom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But this is still a better option than dropping your child off in front of a bar. :( As far as being paid poorly, the starting wage HERE is $3 more than minimum wage, with NO experience, so I often wonder why in the world so many people still work retail. If a client has a lot of behaviors/needs, there is a differential. I have to agree that there are bad staff out there, though. :(

 

Virginia has group homes... in theory. Of course NIMBY movements get in the way of opening new ones and from what I read the waiting list is looooooong.

 

Because of the eugenics crimes this state perpetrated against lower IQ people, I am guessing the state has swung the other way and is hardly involved at all.

 

That is just it though. Have we seen the bar? Did it look like a dive? Was it dark? Does it just look like a diner and was this midday (few customers in the parking lot, but enough to be obviously open)?

 

We read bar and jump to a few conclusions, but not all bars look like bars from the outside in the middle of the week.

 

I agree. Some bars are downright very nice and are full of mostly hard working people having a beer to destress and watch a football game after work.

 

And even if it was a dive, sadly it still might have been better than some state institutions.:glare:

 

I don't condone anything that mother did.

I condone even less a society where any mother has to make any of the only crappy choices that mother had available to her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is such an awful story :crying:

 

I have a mentally handicap uncle in Ca. My mother always brought us up to think he was bad, dangerous, crazy, etc. I send him yearly cards and at first she actually told me she couldn't believe I'd send her pictures of my kids. Like seriously?! Apparently he collects every one of them and carries them everywhere. Since my other 2 uncles are actually human and visit him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Caryville, TN looks like a very, very small town, just off of the highway. There may not be an ER nearby. And I'm guessing that the bar-as-restaurant explanation is likely accurate.

 

We've been focusing on the mother. Was there no other family stepping up to help out? Dad, for example? This mom had a lot on her plate. There but for the grace of God...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We've been focusing on the mother. Was there no other family stepping up to help out? Dad, for example? This mom had a lot on her plate. There but for the grace of God...

 

I bet there is no dad in the picture. The divorce/separation rate among couples where there is a special needs child (in this case, the article said there was another special needs child) is very, very high.

 

I also lost friends when my son was diagnosed with autism . . . some people cannot handle these types of situations.

 

Our relatives are very loving with regards to my son. We don't ask for help, but none of our family is beating a path to our door to ask if there is anything they can do to help.

 

Respite care is very difficult to secure in IL. I am guessing this mother did not have much help . . . probably even the thought of obtaining guardianship was overwhelming . . . filling out paperwork, getting the the doctor to fill out paperwork, having the adult child summoned to court (that is how it works), going to court . . . you don't need a lawyer to do it, but of course it will be recommended and that costs $ . . .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bet there is no dad in the picture. The divorce/separation rate among couples where there is a special needs child (in this case, the article said there was another special needs child) is very, very high.

 

I also lost friends when my son was diagnosed with autism . . . some people cannot handle these types of situations.

 

Our relatives are very loving with regards to my son. We don't ask for help, but none of our family is beating a path to our door to ask if there is anything they can do to help.

 

Respite care is very difficult to secure in IL. I am guessing this mother did not have much help . . . probably even the thought of obtaining guardianship was overwhelming . . . filling out paperwork, getting the the doctor to fill out paperwork, having the adult child summoned to court (that is how it works), going to court . . . you don't need a lawyer to do it, but of course it will be recommended and that costs $ . . .

 

That was what I assumed too. Even if dad is around and involved, he is probably working himself into an early grave trying to afford whatever he can for them, which still leaves pretty much all the care on her.

 

It's amazing how everyone assumes family and friends are eager to help out despite all evidence to the contrary that it not the case for many reasons, some valid and some not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That was what I assumed too. Even if dad is around and involved, he is probably working himself into an early grave trying to afford whatever he can for them, which still leaves pretty much all the care on her.

 

It's amazing how everyone assumes family and friends are eager to help out despite all evidence to the contrary that it not the case for many reasons, some valid and some not.

 

Yes, my dh works a lot of extra overtime so I can stay at home. My mom, who worked hard all her life, keeps asking me when I will be going back to work. :glare: I finally asked her who does she think was going to watch our son? I love my parents but sometimes they tick me off. One year they wanted to take our daughters out to their vacation home but they told me up front that they would not take our son because "we don't feel we can handle him." They honestly think he would not notice or figure it out . . . yes, my son is disabled and delayed but he is not totally clueless. That one really hurt. We talked it over as a family and the girls decided if Macklin could not go neither would they. We all prefer to vacation together as a family.

 

And sometimes my son IS hard to handle. I don't deny that. And my daughters DO get some things that are just for them, apart from my son. But a vacation? I draw the line on inequality there . . .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree. Some bars are downright very nice and are full of mostly hard working people having a beer to destress and watch a football game after work.

 

And even if it was a dive, sadly it still might have been better than some state institutions.:glare:

 

I don't condone anything that mother did.

I condone even less a society where any mother has to make any of the only crappy choices that mother had available to her.

Worth repeating.

Caryville, TN looks like a very, very small town, just off of the highway. There may not be an ER nearby. And I'm guessing that the bar-as-restaurant explanation is likely accurate.

 

We've been focusing on the mother. Was there no other family stepping up to help out? Dad, for example? This mom had a lot on her plate. There but for the grace of God...

Thank you.

 

And sometimes my son IS hard to handle. I don't deny that. And my daughters DO get some things that are just for them, apart from my son. But a vacation? I draw the line on inequality there . . .

:grouphug:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Campbell County borders the county that I live in. I would not call it a restaurant type bar.


Caryville is an extremely small town and has no hospital. The nearest hospital and ER would be in LaFollette, TN which is about 7 miles from Caryville (and traveling away from the interstate).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I think it SHOULD be illegal. That girl is so disabled that she can only speak 30 - 40 words. She can't care for her personal needs. If the mom can no longer care for her, there should be help available to her. Kids like that need to have a legal guardian once they turn 18. THAT should be the law. But WHO will be that guardian?:confused: Poor girl.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My SIL is co-guardian of a disabled adult.

 

The lady is almost 50 and functions at about the level of a 5yo child. Her mother died five years ago, and her father died two years ago at age 80.

 

The parents absolutely believed they were responsible for their beloved child. They lived on a shoestring for their whole lives, I'm talking rural KY poverty, so they could put every extra penny into a trust for her after they were gone.

 

Then most of the people they had named in their will as guardians actually died before they did, so after the Mom died the very elderly father got very concerned about who would take care of D.

 

He finally just asked my SIL outright. She's the wife of the pastor of his church, and had helped to take care of D. after the Mom died. He also asked the wife of one of the elders of the church. Both women got together with their husbands and talked it over, and agreed to be responsible for D. for the rest of her life. It is one of the most loving stories I've ever seen.

 

When the Dad died, SIL and the other lady called upon women in the church and community to basically take over their own responsibilities (and SIL is a homeschooling Mom!) while they helped D. through the transition of her Daddy dying. They took shifts around the clock, living with her and trying to help her understand, for an entire summer. Then they began interviewing caretakers and institutions, and finally found a group home setting in their city that they felt good about.

 

It's close enough that both guardians can and do drop in with no notice to make sure D. is being treated well. The whole church also works on a visiting rotation with nobody going so often that it's burdensome, and they've all just agreed that she is the church's responsibility with pastor's wife and elder's wife as the guardians.

 

The Dad, T., had no choice but to trust these friends, and I thank God they are living up to what he wanted for his baby girl. He had taken care of her for 50 years, and felt responsible for her care for her entire life.

 

This is such a beautiful story!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And in answer to a question, yes it should be illegal. That mother knew very well the child couldn't fend for itself. She would not be required to provide for it, but to dump at a bar is reckless endangerment.

 

:iagree:

 

The more I think about this, I wonder if the mother, herself, had limitations or a disability which was passed down to her two daughters? Maybe she wasn't capable of figuring out a better outcome?

 

I don't know. Maybe I'm grasping at straws.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

hospital and ER would be in LaFollette, TN which is about 7 miles from Caryville (and traveling away from the interstate).

 

Did you drive down and take a pic? I'm impressed.

Looks like a dump, and yes, she could have ended up dead in a ditch. Heck, they arrest people for abandoning kittens in the cold.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just want to chime in here . . .

 

I am not saying how this mother handled things is right. But as a parent of a disabled child I think I can understand what may have been going on in this mother's head just a little bit.

 

Services for families with disabled children and adults in IL are deplorable. And more cuts are being made. Wait lists for housing are over a decade long.

 

My dh and I figure when dh retires we will have to move to another state to look for housing for our son as he will never be able to live independently and I know my dh and I won't be here forever . . . no flames please, but if God decided to take my ds before us I would be able to leave this earth knowing that he is in a better place and not worrying if he is in some horrible placement, being abused, etc. Other friends I know who also have a disabled child have said the same thing but are so afraid to talk about such things.

 

One way to force services/placement is to have the individual hospitalized and then refuse to bring them home/pick them up when they are ready to be released from the hospital. Of course you can get into all sorts of trouble by doing that (basically abandoning the child) but it can get some help. Dh and I have already discussed that this may be something we might have to do someday. Not looking forward to that day. :(

 

I am not condoning what this mother did and I personally would not handle the situation the way she chose to. I would go the ER and refusal to take the child back route. But I acknowledge that I do not know the whole story and I do not know what the mother was going through or what help she tried to obtain. I do know that there is not much help here in IL and some days the future looks pretty bleak as far as where our disabled kids, who will someday become adults, is concerned.

 

mom should not have left her in that location. But the truth is there is no safety net for disabled adult children. Aging parents become worn out and are put on waiting lists. In my state you don't actually come off the waiting list unless some emergency happens, like the parent who provided housing dies. This allows no comfortable transition to new housing for the disabled adult child. He loses his parent and his home at the same time.

 

20 years ago I worked in advocacy. My county was telling parents if they were not going to care for their children leave them at the homeless shelter. Then they would pick them up and find something. A man called me desperate. He and his wife were in their late 70s and were really unable to care for their daughter. She was in her 50s, had been wheel chair bound her whole life, could not dress herself. I was really surprised (and very sad) he thought the homeless shelter was a good idea. He was exhausted and desperate. There was another case around that time where an elderly woman had just learned she had a recurrence of breast cancer. She killed her daughter and then herself--she figured she was dying and there was no one to care for dd. In the years since I had that job the situation in my state has gotten worse.

 

I try very hard not to think about it, since I have a dc with disabilities. If we figure out jobs we will move to a state that has better programs, but for now we stay because this state has good options for my other dc to go to college.

 

I guess the woman researched the state and thought it had better services than her state. I would only fault her with saying should have done more research and left her at a place that could get the young woman into social services faster : hospital, a church (on a Sunday, when there are people there), a police station, etc

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: to both of you.

 

It is the same for parents of adult mentally ill children. One of my closest friends wants her adult son out because of the stress and danger he puts on them. He just qualified for disability but only for just over $200 per month. WHO can live on that? she couldn't get more because 1). He still lived with her (but she doesn't WANT him to) and 2) the dad is paying $25 per week in child support arrearages. Once he is out of the house he will get over $700 but the wait for housing is five years. She feels so trapped!

 

There are nursing homes for the elderly, but there really needs to be help for adults who can't live on their own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow. I'm in Tennessee and didn't realize that we were such a haven for the mentally disabled.

 

We've long been thought of as softies for the homeless though. There have even been stories of communities in other states putting their homeless on buses to here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:grouphug: and :iagree:

 

My first thought in reading this article was sympathy for the mother. I know that sounds backwards and might get me flamed, but as a parent of a child on the spectrum, I have an idea what that might look like. The article mentioned this daughter only had a vocabulary of 30-40 words. That is severely disabled. If the woman's other child is the same level of disability, I can only imagine what the last 19 years of her life have been like.

 

I'm not saying I would make the same decision, but if she knew the State would cover her disabled adult daughter 100% (as SKL said), and she was no longer able to care for her, then is this really the saddest thing ever or was this lady actually doing the best with what options she had?

 

I think it's easy for those of us with high-functioning kids to judge this woman, but having seen those with children requiring herculean amounts of care, I think I understand her motivations.

 

This is excellent!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For the record, I would never, ever judge a parent who felt they were unable to handle the care of their child with special needs in a situation like this. I am just not condoning leaving a child in front of a bar. A hospital would have been much more appropriate if things were really this bad.

 

:iagree:Me too. I am not judging mom and a few posts here have me totally sympathetic for her.

 

I still think there should be help for that mom and others in that situation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: to both of you.

 

It is the same for parents of adult mentally ill children. One of my closest friends wants her adult son out because of the stress and danger he puts on them. He just qualified for disability but only for just over $200 per month. WHO can live on that? she couldn't get more because 1). He still lived with her (but she doesn't WANT him to) and 2) the dad is paying $25 per week in child support arrearages. Once he is out of the house he will get over $700 but the wait for housing is five years. She feels so trapped!

 

There are nursing homes for the elderly, but there really needs to be help for adults who can't live on their own.

 

This is the type of situation I dread. At some point, unfortunately, your friend's son will do something that will warrant hospitalization. That would be the time to make it clear she will not be able to take him back. What he gets from the state will have to go to the care facility he winds up in. And the facility could be miles and miles away from where she lives which will make it hard for her to visit and see if he is doing okay, etc. and depending on the facility, he could be kicked out if he is not med compliant, dangerous, disruptive, etc. it really is a nightmare. Families should not have to have such a huge crises occur to get some help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: to both of you.

 

It is the same for parents of adult mentally ill children. One of my closest friends wants her adult son out because of the stress and danger he puts on them. He just qualified for disability but only for just over $200 per month. WHO can live on that? she couldn't get more because 1). He still lived with her (but she doesn't WANT him to) and 2) the dad is paying $25 per week in child support arrearages. Once he is out of the house he will get over $700 but the wait for housing is five years. She feels so trapped!

 

There are nursing homes for the elderly, but there really needs to be help for adults who can't live on their own.

 

This is why when my mentally ill cousin was released from prison, he had to live in a homeless shelter for a period of time in order to qualify for services.

 

I was in the same predicament with SSI as a disabled adult (at 18) living with my mother. I got around $200 a month and was told that my benefits could only increase if I paid my share (1/3 since there were three people in the home) of all housing expenses. My mother took my entire check each month. There was no way for me to go elsewhere with what I got, and no way for me to "pay my share" unless a lot more people moved in. It's a Catch 22 and they know it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a parent you don't apply for legal guardianship of a child until they are 18, and then you prove to the state that they can't care for themselves and have yourself appointed as guardian. As a guardian, the parent can still make decisions for the person like you would a child.

 

Sometimes parents decide to not apply for guardianship. On the 18th birthday, the person is a legal adult, with all the rights and responsibilities that go with it. The state can step in and have the person ruled a ward of the state, but then the state is accepting responsibility for the person. The bio-parent would no longer have any say in the treatment or care of the person. The state may let the bio-family have input, but they don't have to make decisions based on that information.

 

Yes, but if your child is so low functioning, and you intend to have that child live with you, you would want guardianship so they are protected. That's what I meant. If the services offered are so incredibly poor that the mother had no hope of getting help, as others here are saying, then that does shed some light on it for me. Again, I can't believe how different things are here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, but if your child is so low functioning, and you intend to have that child live with you, you would want guardianship so they are protected. That's what I meant. If the services offered are so incredibly poor that the mother had no hope of getting help, as others here are saying, then that does shed some light on it for me. Again, I can't believe how different things are here.

 

People in your state are very fortunate! I don't know about physical disabilities, but NH is an awful state to live in if you need help with a mentally ill person. Not only had it been suggested earlier on that dh and I divorce so I could move to another state to get help for our RAD, I hqve met more than one family who considered doing so because they needed help.

 

I wish nobody were ever faced with such an awful situation including that mother.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly do believe Universal healthcare in this case. People will always be born with disabilities. That way parents who can provide for their needs will be able to, or, if it's too serious and beyond their scope, they have homes for them. Taking care of the least of these should be the moral imperative of our country.

 

We have a close friend who became a father late in age to a severely autistic child. His greatest fear is dying and what will happen to his son.

 

I am a strong advocate for the British National Health Service. There is a continuing issue, however, about what is medical care and what is 'social' care. In general, a medical issue (either physical or mental illness) is dealt with by the NHS. Mental disability and elderly/dementia support are covered by the local government, with families asked to contribute to a greater or lesser extent. The NHS just covers strictly medical issues.

 

How that might work in practice: if a mentally disabled person needed continuing medication or treatment (for a heart defect or something) then the NHS would cover it. If s/he needed help with washing, dressing, eating, functioning in society, then the local government is responsible, but will look at family income to determine charges.

 

It's a big issue at present - yet another discussion paper has just been published by the government on the issue.

 

Laura

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did you drive down and take a pic? I'm impressed.

Looks like a dump, and yes, she could have ended up dead in a ditch. Heck, they arrest people for abandoning kittens in the cold.

 

No, I just used goggle image. I knew what it looked like because I've been past it before. My family and I just drove past there a couple days ago as a matter of fact. It's definitely a dump.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...