~Anna~ Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 OK, I've been reading the advice for newbies thread and it has gotten me thinking that maybe I am trying to take on too much...... We are just starting out, my DD is coming out of public school, and she will be starting 7th grade. The fact that she is older means more work anyways, and during my research I have found so many things I want to teach her, so it seems to have gotten out of control. Here is what I am thinking: Math: A combination of teaching her myself and using some free online resources. I have also been looking at AoPs and/or trying one of the Life of Fred Books. (45-60 minutes every day) Writing: Thinking of using the sample of WWS to see if it's a good fit. If it's not, I don't know what I'll use. (30-45 minutes every day, this is one of her most lacking areas) Grammar: I have the sample of Advanced Language Lessons, so again I think I am going to try that and see how it goes. When I finish that, or if it doesn't work, I am considering Rod & Staff English level 5 or 6 or I have alot of vintage texts I could try. (30-45 minutes every day) History: We are using K12 HO and Streams of Civilization as our main books. Also will be reading alot of historical fiction (this will count for our reading component), doing a timeline & maps, and other activites and games as I find them. (was going to do this for 1 hour 3-4 times per week but we will read every day for at least 45-60 minutes) Sciene: I am going to do BFSU the first volume, because her science has been kind of all over the place and I want to start over with the basics. I also plan on reading through The Story of Science books. (1-1.5 hours twice a week) Logic: Was planning on using The Art of Argument (30-60 minutes every day) Art/Music Appreciation: Using online materials and books from the library to study an artist or composer once a week or every 2 weeks. (1-2 hours per week) Poetry: Not sure if we should do this or not yet. Foreign Language: She wants to learn German, but I was planning on holding off on this for a while. We will also be doing Bible, Copywork and/or Dictation, Vocabulary, and Narrations (mostly orally) everyday. I also plan on doing some form of spelling, and letting her do typing classes online a few times a week. And I am going to get a workbook on outlining, and possibly one on summarizing, but I want to limit the workbook usage. When I was first planning, I think it was about 6 hours a day, which is more than I originally wanted. And I think I have added even more stuff now. Is this too much in your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 No, 6 hours/day is not too much for a 7th grader. If she spells well, I would drop spelling at this point in favor of vocabulary. So, she will do math, composition, grammar, history w/ literature, science, logic and Bible daily. If she does art/music, poetry, copywork/dictation each 1 day/ week and narrations 2 days/ week, then she would still have an approximate balance of time daily. This doesn't sound unreasonable to me. However, as she is just coming out of ps, she may need to detox. She may need a period of time to adjust to being home and a period of time to settle in her new relationship with you as her primary teacher. Don't be hard on yourself or her if her output this first semester doesn't match your initial expectations. HTH- Mandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 This may be a minority opinion, but I really don't think you will find you need to do all of BFSU vol. 1. By all means go through the lessons, and discuss each concept with her, and if she needs to do the full lesson. But I believe that a lot of Vol. 1 is teaching kids a language & vocabulary for talking about their observations about nature and the world. By 7th grade, most kids will have a lot of this down, just by having been alive and experienced more than a K-2 child has. The first few biology lessons are on categorizing - is it living or nonliving? is it natural or human made? You could have a 15 minute discussion over the first 3-5 lessons in the Biology section, and be done. Likewise with the physics - we did a bunch of fun demos with ramps, pendulums, baloons, paper airplanes, etc. and then gave the proper scientific names to what we observed. It didn't take very long. We are doing Vol. 2 in depth and in its entirety, but it only took a month or two to get the background concepts from Vol. 1. Notice I'm not saying "skip the concepts/ideas" I am saying skip the full lessons. Anyway, there is 2 cents on something you weren't even asking about!! But I'd hate to see you decide BFSU "doesn't work" when it might be that she can just accelerate through the early stages till she hits her level of ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 45 minutes of grammar daily seems like a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 OK, I've been reading the advice for newbies thread and it has gotten me thinking that maybe I am trying to take on too much...... We are just starting out, my DD is coming out of public school, and she will be starting 7th grade. The fact that she is older means more work anyways, and during my research I have found so many things I want to teach her, so it seems to have gotten out of control. Here is what I am thinking: Math: A combination of teaching her myself and using some free online resources. I have also been looking at AoPs and/or trying one of the Life of Fred Books. (45-60 minutes every day) it is not unreasonable to expect her to work through both LOF pre-algebra books in the school year. Writing: Thinking of using the sample of WWS to see if it's a good fit. If it's not, I don't know what I'll use. (30-45 minutes every day, this is one of her most lacking areas) Grammar: I have the sample of Advanced Language Lessons, so again I think I am going to try that and see how it goes. When I finish that, or if it doesn't work, I am considering Rod & Staff English level 5 or 6 or I have alot of vintage texts I could try. (30-45 minutes every day) History: We are using K12 HO and Streams of Civilization as our main books. Also will be reading alot of historical fiction (this will count for our reading component), doing a timeline & maps, and other activites and games as I find them. (was going to do this for 1 hour 3-4 times per week but we will read every day for at least 45-60 minutes) Sciene: I am going to do BFSU the first volume, because her science has been kind of all over the place and I want to start over with the basics. I also plan on reading through The Story of Science books. (1-1.5 hours twice a week) I doubt that BFSU would last you the whole year. Some of the lessons are very short. It is geared towards the younger crowd. You might want to get both books 1 and 2 and try to get through both in one year. That said, I am a BFSU dropout so what the heck to I know? Logic: Was planning on using The Art of Argument (30-60 minutes every day) Art/Music Appreciation: Using online materials and books from the library to study an artist or composer once a week or every 2 weeks. (1-2 hours per week) Poetry: Not sure if we should do this or not yet. WWS has a poetry section. Foreign Language: She wants to learn German, but I was planning on holding off on this for a while. We will also be doing Bible, Copywork and/or Dictation, Vocabulary, and Narrations (mostly orally) everyday. I also plan on doing some form of spelling, and letting her do typing classes online a few times a week. And I am going to get a workbook on outlining, and possibly one on summarizing, but I want to limit the workbook usage. Unless her spelling needs remediation, you might want to consider starting a vocabulary program instead. WWS starts with narration so you don't need a separate resource. I am not sure you want a 7th grader to be working on dictation and copywork. But, if you do then you might want to consider using WWE 4. WWS also teaches outlining as a main component. Narration is summarizing so if you are working on narration you have it covered. When I was first planning, I think it was about 6 hours a day, which is more than I originally wanted. And I think I have added even more stuff now. Is this too much in your opinion? I don't know if it is too much, but it might be a lot for a new homeschooled student. Expect some major adjustment for the two of you. 6 hours a day might be a goal to work towards, not something you do out of the chute. My son did 6 hours a day last year as a 6th grader but we didn't start the year with that. I would also suggest you get SWB's audio downloads regarding writing. You are going to need the two that cover the grammar and logic stages. You might also want the one for the high school years in order to know where you are headed. I have all three and find them to be very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Yeah, I wouldn't worry too much about allotting time for specific subjects. After you begin, you may find that she needs 2 hours for math and 15 minutes for grammar or other odd amounts of time for various subjects or she may need a ton of time one day and speed through her work on another. Mandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Yes, too much. Drop Grammar to about 15 minutes a day. I can't imagine 45 minutes of it! Drop Logic to no more than 30 minutes a few times a week. Take the whole year to do Art of Argument, rather than a semester. (I think it is rushing it to do it in a semester, and it will stick better to take your time). Dictation and Narration ARE writing, don't make them additional. If you want to start with dictation and narration do that, then after a few months start WWS. Do spelling OR vocab, not both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennW in SoCal Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I don't know if it is too much, but it might be a lot for a new homeschooled student. Expect some major adjustment for the two of you. 6 hours a day might be a goal to work towards, not something you do out of the chute. My son did 6 hours a day last year as a 6th grader but we didn't start the year with that. I would also suggest you get SWB's audio downloads regarding writing. You are going to need the two that cover the grammar and logic stages. You might also want the one for the high school years in order to know where you are headed. I have all three and find them to be very helpful. :iagree: on both points above. I also think you are on the right track in not expecting to do every subject every single day. Take that a step further and remember the Aesop fable of the tortoise and the hare -- slow and steady wins the day in homeschooling too! The way to work up to your full plan might be that you start with math daily, grammar and vocabulary switched every other day then tie writing in with what ever you are reading. Do this for a few hours in the morning then spend the afternoon reading, and include reading aloud or listening together to audio books. If your dd wants more, you can add it, and you can certainly add more in the spring and the following year. I wanted to add some thoughts about writing. Copy work, dictation and narration are not crazy plans for a 7th grader who isn't a strong writer. It is what I did with my oldest and he quickly moved on to essays and is a strong writer. The writing lectures are full of terrific advice, advice that SWB has given over the years in articles and (back in the old days) on this forum. Now it can all be found in 3 convenient downloads! (They are in the Peace Hill catalog -- click that icon in the upper right hand corner of the page.) I used this advice to guide writing in our homeschool and never used any writing curricula. You may need to listen to the lectures a couple of times and take notes to distill what makes sense and how it applies to your situation. And remember -- your homeschool does NOT have to look anything like what the brick and mortar schools are doing. It doesn't have to be crammed into 6 contiguous hours each day. Trust your instincts, be gentle on yourselves as you figure out how this new relationship is going to go, and know that a bad day or week does not spell the ruin of your daughter's future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Yes, too much. Drop Grammar to about 15 minutes a day. I can't imagine 45 minutes of it! Drop Logic to no more than 30 minutes a few times a week. Take the whole year to do Art of Argument, rather than a semester. (I think it is rushing it to do it in a semester, and it will stick better to take your time). Dictation and Narration ARE writing, don't make them additional. If you want to start with dictation and narration do that, then after a few months start WWS. Do spelling OR vocab, not both. :iagree:This is all excellent advice!! Also, maybe start with a couple of subjects the first week, and gradually add in others rather than the whole shebang all at once? That will give you a better sense of actual time required and when you get to that "too much" point. Start with your highest priorities - math, writing, etc. then add things in in the order at which you value them. you might not get to Logic, for example, this year, or you may just do it once a week and take longer to finish the book. That's fine. Prioritize what really matters the most to you, and be prepared to drop the rest, or come back to it later, or add it in gradually. The first few months are a rollercoaster, as you get to know your child as a student and she you as a teacher. It's a whole new can of worms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I'd also reduce the times for grammar and logic. If you look on CAP's website they've recently posted free schedules for Art of Argument. They are very helpful for spreading it out to suit your schedule. You could get spelling and vocabulary knocked out with Rod and Staff's Spelling by Sound and Structure 7. The 7 and 8 books are focused on root based vocabulary, with a side of phonetic spelling. The lessons are short 'n sweet, and to the point. No fluff or busywork. You have writing more than covered. Summarizing is narrating, and outlining depends on the same skill. WWS, copywork, summarizing, dictation, outlining, and such. Do just one of those a day. Decide which skill you're going to focus on and tackle it. WWS and R&S English will teach outlining. You won't go wrong with either choice. Something else occurred to me as I read through your list: that list seems heavy on the planning needs for mom. I'd try reducing that where you can, so it's not cutting into your teaching time. An actual math text for example would take a big chunk of that off your plate. If finances are a concern you can snag something like Lial's Basic College Math (BCM) and the solutions manual for about $20 off Amazon Marketplace. (Look for the non-current edition, and make sure the pictures on the covers match.) Only core subjects really need done daily. The "elective" type subjects can be spread out and/or rotated on a loop schedule. My rising seventh grader's day is broken into five blocks that are approximately an hour each, which doesn't include her literature reading. One for math, one for spelling/vocab, grammar, Latin and beginning her writing if there's time, one for math, one for science, one for history and finishing that writing, and one for elective type courses (like logic and poetry). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChemMommy Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I don't think that you've seriously over schedule your child. BUT, you may want to make school a slow rollout, meaning introduce math and do it only for a week. Take this time to show her where to keep her books and supplies and to assess her abilities/gaps. Then, add a new subject the next week, and so on..... I think that your dd might feel overwhelmed (and you might feel frantic) if you jumped into the whole thing at once. Consider starting with her favorite subject and then add the one she's the most behind in and then a short one...Soon you'll be up to full speed. IF it is too much, drop the extras until after Christmas. Establish the basics and fix gaps this first year and do extras as time allows this year or in the future. WELCOME to the homeschooling community! May God bless your efforts and endeavors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Well I think some of the things, like Art of Argument, aren't going to take as long as you've planned. On the science, I would take a little pause there and just think about where you want to go AFTER that. Sorry, I'm just squinting my eyes funny on that one. Do you have it yet? Maybe there's a logic you're seeing? I'm just saying that you've got this high school progression of science to get ready for and 7th is a really lousy year to blow on random studies. I would think in terms of where it gets you. If you're thinking of it in terms of a general science, well I suppose, but I gather it's still not age-appropriate. Think about where you're going for 8th and what she'll need for that. You want to do Biology in 8th? Then she needs practice working with a textbook. You want to do Earth Science for 8th? (very common, BJU does Earth in 8th), then with what curricula? Maybe you'd like the 7th grade course from that company. Think ahead on that one. Sometimes the reason you do say Life Science in 7th is because it makes that high school biology course a lot easier. I'm not saying it's a bad option, just saying I would think about where it's going. Math. What level math?? AOPS is for the math-gifted. If she's math-gifted, she's not gonna wanna sit around while you teach her using freebies you found online. You're a math teacher bc (before children) and have some texts lying around? I'm just saying math gives more people grief than almost anything. Make a concrete plan. So I think the amount of stuff you're trying to do is fine, because some of the things won't take as long when you get in your groove. Grammar, AoA, some of that stuff will trim down. I suggest though that the actual WAY you work with her and the WAY you schedule is very dependent on personality. If this dc is what Cathy Duffy (awesome books, check the library) calls a "Perfect Paula" then your mom-driven, off the internet and whatever I find math could be very, very frustrating. Some kids just want their checklist and to be left ALONE. Some kids die because they're left alone too much ("Sociable Sue"). And all kids at this age at least what a balance and the *option* to be independent. What you do then is take that list and divide it into things you'll likely do *together* and things she can do *independently* and see how those times balance out. See if your together times are realistic and likely to happen and see if there's enough independent stuff that she doesn't feel like she's waiting around for you. Keep up the good work! Looks like you've done a ton of research to get to this point! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anna~ Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 This may be a minority opinion, but I really don't think you will find you need to do all of BFSU vol. 1. By all means go through the lessons, and discuss each concept with her, and if she needs to do the full lesson. But I believe that a lot of Vol. 1 is teaching kids a language & vocabulary for talking about their observations about nature and the world. By 7th grade, most kids will have a lot of this down, just by having been alive and experienced more than a K-2 child has. Notice I'm not saying "skip the concepts/ideas" I am saying skip the full lessons. Yes, I realize this is geared toward younger students and I had planned to move through alot of it quickly. Drop Logic to no more than 30 minutes a few times a week. Take the whole year to do Art of Argument, rather than a semester. (I think it is rushing it to do it in a semester, and it will stick better to take your time). This is great advice. I didn't realize that it was supposed to be for a semester, I was planning on doing it for the whole year, so that should work out great. Dictation and Narration ARE writing, don't make them additional. If you want to start with dictation and narration do that, then after a few months start WWS. I wanted to add some thoughts about writing. Copy work, dictation and narration are not crazy plans for a 7th grader who isn't a strong writer. It is what I did with my oldest and he quickly moved on to essays and is a strong writer. Her writing is horrible, and she gets upset even at the thought of having to write something on her own. That is why I was planning on doing copywork, dictation, and narrations with her. If you look on CAP's website they've recently posted free schedules for Art of Argument. They are very helpful for spreading it out to suit your schedule. Thanks, I will look at that. On the science, I would take a little pause there and just think about where you want to go AFTER that. Sorry, I'm just squinting my eyes funny on that one. Do you have it yet? Maybe there's a logic you're seeing? I'm just saying that you've got this high school progression of science to get ready for and 7th is a really lousy year to blow on random studies. I would think in terms of where it gets you. If you're thinking of it in terms of a general science, well I suppose, but I gather it's still not age-appropriate. Think about where you're going for 8th and what she'll need for that. You want to do Biology in 8th? Then she needs practice working with a textbook. You want to do Earth Science for 8th? (very common, BJU does Earth in 8th), then with what curricula? Maybe you'd like the 7th grade course from that company. Think ahead on that one. Sometimes the reason you do say Life Science in 7th is because it makes that high school biology course a lot easier. I'm not saying it's a bad option, just saying I would think about where it's going. I realize it is geared toward younger students, but I just want to make sure that she has a solid base in understanding science and it seems that BFSU can so that. Like I said above, I plan on doing some of the lessons very fast or not at all depending on what I think is appropriate. If she were to have gone back to ps this year, they would have been doing a mix of physics and chemistry. Up until now, she has really only learned life science in detail I guess. Things like cells, food chains, animal habitats, etc. She also has learned about the planets some too. Maybe I am not understanding what 7th graders should be learning in science? I thought I had read that most high school science assumes no prior knowledge so that up until then you could do what you wanted. That's why I thought we go through BFSU to get her a strong base. What I hadn't thought of was how long that would realistically take us, and if it's not the whole year, what I would do after that. Math. What level math?? AOPS is for the math-gifted. If she's math-gifted, she's not gonna wanna sit around while you teach her using freebies you found online. You're a math teacher bc (before children) and have some texts lying around? I'm just saying math gives more people grief than almost anything. Make a concrete plan. I would say math is her best subject, but I don't know if she's gifted. Math is my strongest area, so that is why I thought I would teach alot of it myself. She should be doing Pre-Algebra I guess. She was a year ahead in public school, so she's already done fractions, percents, ratios, some geometry. If she were to have gone back to ps, they would be learning mostly proportions and statistics I think. If this dc is what Cathy Duffy calls a "Perfect Paula" then your mom-driven, off the internet and whatever I find math could be very, very frustrating. Some kids just want their checklist and to be left ALONE. Some kids die because they're left alone too much ("Sociable Sue"). And all kids at this age at least what a balance and the *option* to be independent. I went to Cathy Duffy's lecture on that. My DD is a mix of a Wiggly Willy and a Perfect Paula, which if I remember correctly are like total opposites :) And I am most definitely a Competent Carl, so it is definitely going to be interesting! Thanks to each of you for your response, even if I didn't quote it I really appreciated reading all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 I would say math is her best subject, but I don't know if she's gifted. Math is my strongest area, so that is why I thought I would teach alot of it myself. She should be doing Pre-Algebra I guess. She was a year ahead in public school, so she's already done fractions, percents, ratios, some geometry. If she were to have gone back to ps, they would be learning mostly proportions and statistics I think. I'm just saying math gives more people grief than almost anything. Make a concrete plan. Heed the wisdom of OhE and choose a curriculum for math (carefully, of course ;)). Or choose parts of several, as some people prefer to combine. But do choose. Besides, for some of us, researching math curricula is one of the more fun parts of homeschooling :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 If she is that scared of writing I'd hold off on WWS until AFTER you have done dictation and narration for a while. Doing that AND WWS is too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anna~ Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 If she is that scared of writing I'd hold off on WWS until AFTER you have done dictation and narration for a while. Doing that AND WWS is too much. That sounds reasonable. I think I will try to get her used to doing some writing where she doesn't really have to come up with anything on her own (copywork/dictation). Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 If writing is her most challenging subject and she has anxiety around writing anything then I suggest you start with WWE4 (or even 3, really) and hold off on WWS. WWS will be there and its not a crisis if it happens in 8th grade. Or try working through WWE4 double time and then move on to WWS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 No words of wisdom...just wanted to let you know that I am pretty much in the same situation. Except that my son is going into 6th :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anna~ Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 If writing is her most challenging subject and she has anxiety around writing anything then I suggest you start with WWE4 (or even 3, really) and hold off on WWS. WWS will be there and its not a crisis if it happens in 8th grade. Or try working through WWE4 double time and then move on to WWS. We are actually going through the WWE textbook right now (I got it from the library). We are in year 2 right now I think. It's been very laid back. She hasn't actually done any writing though.....the copywork I know she can do, so I have just been reading her the passages and having her answer the questions orally. Reading Comprehension has been another big problem area for her, but I have been pleasantly surprised that she has been able to answer almost all of the questions so far. I have to remind her to answer in complete sentences though. So I am thinking that hearing me read (instead of reading on her own), she seems to retain alot more of the information. No words of wisdom...just wanted to let you know that I am pretty much in the same situation. Except that my son is going into 6th :) Thanks! Sending well wishes your way :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.