Is taking an hour to do one single short page of math she understands part of the ADD

[LittleIzumi]

? (I ran out of title space. :lol:)

 

She's on her super-low Adderall dosage, and now she can DO her math--she takes it off to a quiet place and works on it steadily. However, she takes over an hour. For a worksheet of maybe 20 problems that she knows how to answer. It doesn't appear to be dawdling. I'm VERY familiar with dawdling. :glare: It's just taking her ages. Nothing else takes even close to that long. It's like math puts her brain on slow-mo. (Even though she knows it, honestly, and gets the answers almost 100% correct every time.) It's not old stuff--we're doing MM by subject, so she learns it, uses it a bit, and then it moves on.

[Crimson Wife]

Is it the calculating or the writing that is the slow part (or both)? Many kids with ADD also have dysgraphia. If dysgraphia is an issue, whatever you can do to separate the problem-solving from having to physically write the answer will help.

[freerange]

This isn't answering your question exactly, so I apologize in advance for that.

 

If it's something you know she understands, why does she need to do it 20 times over? If you feel she must do 20, split it into two lots to do at different times. If she's getting nearly 100% consistently she's probably not learning very much from doing it.

 

If you scribe for her, is she faster? If she can type the answers on the computer is she faster?

[LittleIzumi]

This isn't answering your question exactly, so I apologize in advance for that.

 

If it's something you know she understands, why does she need to do it 20 times over? If you feel she must do 20, split it into two lots to do at different times. If she's getting nearly 100% consistently she's probably not learning very much from doing it.

 

If you scribe for her, is she faster? If she can type the answers on the computer is she faster?

 

For example, she learned last week about adding over 10 by making ten. New thing. She did two pages on various methods of adding 9+___ starting with pictorial representations for about 6 problems, then written equations with helper problems (like 9+3= with 10+2=), maybe 8, and then a few to say aloud to the teacher, and then a few actual equations vertical and horizontal, plus a few adding problems with patterns and a few doubles addition questions. Then the next day is the same about 8s. Then they give one single page of nines review to make sure they remember instead of just following the patterns. She will take an hour on the initial page as she learns it. The next day, she will take an hour on the eights page as she learns it. Today, she will take an hour on the single review page as she does that. The MM system is working well in that she DOES get almost every single answer correct on each page, no matter what it's teaching. Today she took half an hour just drawing the little blocks to add to the blocks already on the page (supposed to do that). Then another half an hour to answer the equations on the other half of the page. She's done adding above ten, period, for all of a week, and this isn't her strong area.

 

I can't scribe her because now that she can actually pay attention to her math and DO it at all, she wants to be LEFT ALONE. DO NOT LOOK AT ME OR MY PAPER. DO NOT TALK TO ME. LEAVE ME ALONE TO DO MY MATH. So, no scribing. :lol: I've had her do the Typewriter function on the computer, and that's a little faster, but she's not having troubles with writing at the moment. That used to be an issue but this summer she has made huge gains there. Her reversals stopped and everything.

[freerange]

Hmm. If she's wanting to be somewhere else to work it'll be hard for you to tell if she's getting distracted/daydreaming or if its a processing delay.

 

If she's not getting frustrated & is happy with doing it, is it a problem for the moment that it is taking so long?

 

I think Maria says on her materials that she includes lots of questions in case they're needed, not with the expectation that most children would need to do them all. So if you for example just do the even numbered questions you'll still be doing fine.

[freerange]

One lastquestion then I'll stop, I promise. Could she be bored? What happens if you ask her to do half the questions-does it take half the time? Have you tried speeding up-covering more than one lesson per day?

[LittleIzumi]

One lastquestion then I'll stop, I promise. Could she be bored? What happens if you ask her to do half the questions-does it take half the time? Have you tried speeding up-covering more than one lesson per day?

 

I've offered to let her do just half as long as she gets the first half right. She wants to do all of them. :confused: I do mix things up (today was one page on nines and one page on place value, and "lessons" are usually 2-3 pages) but I can't think of any way to go faster if she won't skip (she takes the paper and does them all, even if I've circled half of them or whatnot--she circles the others and then does them, lol). She does her work on her bed with the door open, and every time I walk by or stick my head in to check on her, she's steadily working or looking at her paper, at least. She used to doodle, go upside down, bounce around, totally forget everything about what she was doing, etc. This is different.

[MomatHWTK]

IMO yes, but I'm still working on figuring everything out myself.

[Heathermomster]

DS takes a long time to do math, but he has dyscalculia and doesn't want to do the subject. DS does math sitting at a table or standing at the kitchen counter. I save the room time for reading.

 

I can't tell whether you are bothered with your DD taking so long. To answer your question, no, I don't think it's normal for a child to take over one hour to answer a short amount of math problems.

 

If the length of time is a problem for you, you could set a timer and once it goes off, she's done. You could maybe try printing up 2 ten frames, laminate them, and have her use two differently colored erasable markers to work her problems. McGuffey math uses number lines to teach mental addition. You could give her number stamps to mark her answers (I picked some up for my 4yo at a craft store). Rekenreks might be a solution to reduce writing.

 

As I understand it, some kids with LDs work slowly due to perfectionist tendencies and a strong desire to please. Those with ADD/ADHD tend to hyperfocus and totally lose track of time. Hyperfocus issues will be there her entire life, and I doubt she even recognizes that she's doing it. You will have to examine ways to combat that, and she will eventually have to figure out a way to resolve the issue herself and rely upon you (or others or a timer) to help her.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Heathermomster

[wapiti]

I've offered to let her do just half as long as she gets the first half right. She wants to do all of them. :confused: I do mix things up (today was one page on nines and one page on place value, and "lessons" are usually 2-3 pages) but I can't think of any way to go faster if she won't skip (she takes the paper and does them all, even if I've circled half of them or whatnot--she circles the others and then does them, lol). She does her work on her bed with the door open, and every time I walk by or stick my head in to check on her, she's steadily working or looking at her paper, at least. She used to doodle, go upside down, bounce around, totally forget everything about what she was doing, etc. This is different.

 

I would continue to assign half - or potentially even fewer, if you think it's enough for her to learn. Then, if she does them all by her own choice, I wouldn't let it bother me even if it took her a long time (since you've eliminated writing and distraction as an issue).

 

Let's see, what else could it be... how's the vision - this is the one who had VT, no? Could she be plain old daydreaming?

 

What would happen if you skipped the similar going-over-ten lessons for the other numbers? Would she be able to extrapolate what she knows when she needs to apply this principle in a "new" type of problem, i.e., the next topic? These lessons are boring but very foundational; on the other hand, with a 2E kiddo like your dd, I'd be willing to experiment a bit.

 

FWIW, I would be reluctant to add a timer, as it might exacerbate the perfectionism. Could you write the problems on the white board, as a way to avoid having her do them all?

 

just thinking out loud...

[LittleIzumi]

I would continue to assign half - or potentially even fewer, if you think it's enough for her to learn. Then, if she does them all by her own choice, I wouldn't let it bother me even if it took her a long time (since you've eliminated writing and distraction as an issue).

 

Let's see, what else could it be... how's the vision - this is the one who had VT, no? Could she be plain old daydreaming?

 

What would happen if you skipped the similar going-over-ten lessons for the other numbers? Would she be able to extrapolate what she knows when she needs to apply this principle in a "new" type of problem, i.e., the next topic? These lessons are boring but very foundational; on the other hand, with a 2E kiddo like your dd, I'd be willing to experiment a bit.

 

FWIW, I would be reluctant to add a timer, as it might exacerbate the perfectionism. Could you write the problems on the white board, as a way to avoid having her do them all?

 

just thinking out loud...

 

Thank you!!

 

Yes, she had the VT. She would probably wig out with a timer. :glare: You should see the breakdowns she has with MathRider because of the time constraints. It's great for her when she can stop freaking out and try it, but that's hard to do.

 

She IS getting somewhat distracted!! :glare: Today she's on the couch and her sister is the one in their bedroom so I can watch her. She's not all over like she used to be, she's sitting quite still which is amazing for her, and it's hard to watch her without her noticing me and stopping her work, but... she's writing one answer, looking at the page, looking up into space as if concentrating, looking at the page, looking at her elbow, looking at me (pause, pause, pause--she caught me :lol:), looking back at her work, tucking her hair behind her ear, running her fingers along her chin, looking back at her work, and then writing an answer. Repeat. Look at paper, look up, push glasses up, stick arm out and look at it, look back at paper, look off into space contemplatively, do some slow finger counting for what looks like 10 seconds, stare into space, look at foot, bob head repeatedly as if counting, look into space, mutter what sounds like counting under her breath, look back at paper, look up, more mental counting, look at paper for a while, look up, tell me to get off the computer :lol:, etc. It's like she's TRYING to sit and do her work, but she still can't quite hold it together.

 

Drat.

 

ETA: And then she did the last two in under 10 seconds total. Which is what I know she CAN do, when her brain is engaged. Aaaaaaaargh.

Edited July 19, 2012 by LittleIzumi

[Heathermomster]

I think you guys misunderstand me about the use of timers. The timer is for time management purposes, preferably in another room, but loud enough to prompt them when they need to stop. The timer is not for speed drills or anything like that but used for hyperfocus issues. I hate speed drills.

 

There is a book that is suited for teenagers and adults that is titled ADD-Friendly Ways to Organize Your Life by Kolberg and Nadeau. I work on using their recommendations in my own home to keep my family organized. There are no diagnosed ADD/ADHD issues in my home, but plenty of processing speed and working memory issues that must be dealt with.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Heathermomster

[LittleIzumi]

I think you guys misunderstand me about the use of timers. The timer is for time management purposes, preferably in another room, but loud enough to prompt them when they need to stop. The timer is not for speed drills or anything like that but used for hypoerfocus issues. I hate speed drills.

 

There is a book that is suited for teenagers and adults that is titled ADD-Friendly Ways to Organize Your Life by Kolberg and Nadeau. I work on using their recommendations in my own home to keep my family organized. There are no diagnosed ADD/ADHD issues in my home, but plenty of processing speed and working memory issues that must be dealt with.

 

I know, but just having a timer would probably freak her out. I am going to try to introduce timers in a gentle way this year, starting with app time limits via timer, but so far they're associated with speed, and freaking out.

 

And then she would only have two problems done. :glare:

[JennW in SoCal]

This thread is bringing back memories of dragging my oldest, 2E but hugely ADHD, through math. I did it all -- math on a white board, math with a timer -- not as in speed drills, but as Heathermomster (love that moniker!) describes as a time management tool. When the timer went off it was time to go to the next subject. We did the highlighter trick or checkmark trick --- each time a problem was done he could check it off, with the idea that the action of doing the check mark would re-engage his brain. He did math at the table sitting on a balance ball instead of a chair. He had snacks to munch on with the same idea that some other activity would keep the brain in gear.

 

Taking a long time to do something that isn't that difficult is classic ADHD -- the easier the task the more likely they are to zone out. My ds, now a 20yo college student, is always calling me after an exam to complain that once again he got the easy stuff wrong but all the hard stuff right on the exam. It is sometimes the difference between getting an A and a B, but he is passing his classes and loving school so that's all that matters. He is no longer on any ADHD meds, but uses checklists and lots of pacing and gives himself lots of time to get his work done. He just knows that he processes more slowly than other people, and works that into his study plans.

 

If things are otherwise going well, you might just build that hour into your day and let the issue go for now.

 

And, can I share a story?? The 20yo had a college math course last fall, and his little brother, the 17yo math whiz, tutored him via skype every weekend. After one especially long skype session, the 17yo very earnestly said to me "Wow, I have a whole new appreciation for you sticking it out in homeschooling him!" The 20yo got an A in his math class!