Does this denomination exist?

[Maverick_Mom]

One that combines conservative evangelical beliefs (on both spiritual and social matters) *and* traditional (but not necessarily liturgical, though that's okay) worship?

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

One that combines conservative evangelical beliefs (on both spiritual and social matters) *and* traditional (but not necessarily liturgical, though that's okay) worship?

 

That sounds like my church. We recently joined the Evangelical Covenant conference. (Did I say that right?) Hmm, I can't find a link on my church's website. Maybe you can Google it?

[happypamama]

Sounds like some churches in the Christian & Missionary Alliance -- cmalliance.org, I think.

 

For a while, we attended a church that was part of the Conservative Congregational Christian Conference, and we liked it a lot, though tbh, we didn't look into its wider beliefs too deeply, as we were sporadic attenders and were only temporarily living in that city.

 

We also attended a church that was part of the Evangelical Congregational denomination, and we liked it as well. IIRC, it wasn't terribly different from the CMA, which is what I grew up attending.

 

And thanks for starting this thread; we attend a CMA church around here sometimes and really like it, but it's a bit of a hike, especially for activities during the week. I've been half-heartedly church-shopping, but I am going to see if either of those denominations have churches near us.

[Parrothead]

I believe there is a group of Evangelical Lutherans. I could point you to Charismatic Catholics.

[Donna T.]

One that combines conservative evangelical beliefs (on both spiritual and social matters) *and* traditional (but not necessarily liturgical, though that's okay) worship?

 

Yes. We are Independent Baptists. I'm sure there are others. :001_smile:

[Bluegoat]

I believe there is a group of Evangelical Lutherans. I could point you to Charismatic Catholics.

 

Tve Evangelical Lutherans are actually the less conservative ones. I think the more conservative ones are the Missouri Synod Lutherans and in outside the US there are Lutheran churches affiliated with them.

 

OP - I also thought of Lutherans, or some Anglican groups like the Continuing Anglican Churches, or maybe some Methodists.

 

But it would depend on what you mean by conservative a bit - none of them are fundamentalists in the sense of being Biblical literalists though they have a traditional approach to Scripture and Christianity. And as Parrothead suggested, even some non-Protestant groups might fit the bill depending on what you mean by conservative and evangelical.

[creekland]

The Church of God we go to has traditional services as an option. Hubby and I like them a bit more than their contemporary counterpart. The trade off (what we don't like) is that it's a big church (roughly 1000 on a given Sunday spread across 4 services). However, we love the preaching (beliefs, preaching, whole package) and our kids love their activities, so we stay. They are large simply because many people love the same things we do. I can't fault them for that, nor do I want to cap the attendance just for "my" preference.

[ktgrok]

One that combines conservative evangelical beliefs (on both spiritual and social matters) *and* traditional (but not necessarily liturgical, though that's okay) worship?

 

Sounds like Roman Catholic or Orthodox.

[Parrothead]

Sounds like Roman Catholic or Orthodox.

I suppose MM will have to define "evangelical" for us. ;)

[brett_ashley]

Presbyterian Church of America.

[milovany]

I suppose MM will have to define "evangelical" for us. ;)

 

True! I almost posted asking for a definition, saying, "emphasis on conservative or evangelical? And if evangelical, define evangelical, please." Because I thought of Catholic and Orthodox, too. Can't get much more traditional than we two. :001_smile:

[Parrothead]

True! I almost posted asking for a definition, saying, "emphasis on conservative or evangelical? And if evangelical, define evangelical, please." Because I thought of Catholic and Orthodox, too. Can't get much more traditional than we two. :001_smile:

:iagree:This exactly why I didn't just say RC or EO. I can't see either of them fitting what I know of as evangelical.

 

Now, while I'm thinking about it, does the EO church have what could be or is considered a charismatic branch?

[milovany]

:iagree:This exactly why I didn't just say RC or EO. I can't see either of them fitting what I know of as evangelical.

 

Right. The interesting thing is, I've been a lot more evangelistic (and seen more people coming to the church, glory to GOD) than I ever did as a very evangelical protestant. So that's why I thought maybe a definition would be good.

 

Now, while I'm thinking about it, does the EO church have what could be or is considered a charismatic branch?

 

No, I don't believe so.

[mumto2]

Presbyterian Church of America.

:iagree:

Socially conservative and traditional docterine. Liturgy can vary from church to church. PCA book of church order provides for certain amount of leeway in liturgy.

[mommaduck]

Now, while I'm thinking about it, does the EO church have what could be or is considered a charismatic branch?

No.

[Maverick_Mom]

Wow! I'm so excited to see so many responses! And yeah, I think some explanation of what I mean by "evangelical" and "conservative" would be helpful -- those terms can mean different things to different people. I have to run (we're having company), but I'll be back later and will try to elaborate on the terms.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Maverick_Mom

[Dana]

Tve Evangelical Lutherans are actually the less conservative ones. I think the more conservative ones are the Missouri Synod Lutherans and in outside the US there are Lutheran churches affiliated with them.

 

 

Yup.

My mother is a minister with the ELCA (father too).

Missouri Synod doesn't ordain women.

[tristangrace]

My Anglican church refers to itself as being "three streams"--Evangelical, Liturgical/Sacramental, and Charismatic/Pentecostal. Best of everything. :D

[Donna A.]

Have you looked into Reformed Baptist? Conservative, evangelical, practices believer's baptism, adheres to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, does NOT ordain female or hom*s*xual ministers, and may or may not have a liturgical order of worship.

 

Here's a church directory if you want to look for one in your area: http://www.arbca.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=85&Itemid=54

[Susan in TN]

Presbyterian Church of America.

 

:iagree:

[Momofeat]

Sounds like some churches in the Christian & Missionary Alliance -- cmalliance.org, I think.

 

For a while, we attended a church that was part of the Conservative Congregational Christian Conference, and we liked it a lot, though tbh, we didn't look into its wider beliefs too deeply, as we were sporadic attenders and were only temporarily living in that city.

 

We also attended a church that was part of the Evangelical Congregational denomination, and we liked it as well. IIRC, it wasn't terribly different from the CMA, which is what I grew up attending.

 

And thanks for starting this thread; we attend a CMA church around here sometimes and really like it, but it's a bit of a hike, especially for activities during the week. I've been half-heartedly church-shopping, but I am going to see if either of those denominations have churches near us.

 

We love our CMA church, but it is definitely contemporary in worship. I suspect that worship style can vary from church to church.

[FourOaks]

I was going to say Independent Baptist also.

[happyhomemaker]

Presbyterian Church of America.

 

:iagree: It's a conservative, evangelical group, but the worship styles will vary somewhat from church to church.

[8circles]

It does depend on what you mean by 'evangelical' but I think the Evangelical Covenant Church fits AFAIC. I'm pretty conservative politically & socially IMO & fell totally at home & comfortable in this denomination but it is also very diverse. I love worshipping with people of varied political persuasions & also people who I know don't sweat the minutia of theology yet love to study to grow closer to God in their walk.

 

Women are ordained. Infant or believer baptism - both are equally considered. Not sure which other specific issues you are concerned about.

 

As far as Lutheran, there is actually the Wisconsin Synod which is even more conservative than Missouri. I'm not aware of any others.

[Shannanlee]

My church fits the bill. It is Independent Fundamental Baptist.

[Chris in VA]

Moravian. I think that's where I'm headed.

[PeacefulChaos]

Ummm...well, I honestly don't know what evangelical means to most people. :)

BUT I think that there are some Assemblies of God churches that would fit your description.

[Maverick_Mom]

Okay -- I'll try to define what I mean by the terms "conservative" and "evangelical." And these aren't meant to be official, authoritative definitions -- they're the way that I personally define those words.

 

Conservative = a traditional stance on social issues such as life (e.g., abortion), the role of women in the church, marriage, homosexuality, etc.

 

Evangelical -- this one is trickier. I don't want to step on anyone's toes by saying that "x" = evangelical when they believe in "y" and consider themselves evangelical. I'm not debating anyone else's interpretation of the word, just trying to communicate what I'm looking for. When I think "evangelical," I think of a church that believes that Jesus is who He says He is, that He means what He says, that the Bible is the Word of God and is as true today as it was when it was written (I believe in Biblical inerrancy -- I also believe there are parts of the Bible that don't make sense to us but that it's our problem, not the Bible's). *However* -- I don't believe that the gifts of the Spirit should be a litmus test of one's faith (which I think rules out AG churches, but I could be wrong on that).

 

I know that finding a church shouldn't be reduced to a formula (The Right Beliefs + The Right Worship Style = Living Happily Ever After :D). I'm just realizing that I'm uncomfortable with the worship style in our church, and it's occurred to me that every church I've attended which is a comfortable fit with my beliefs is not a comfortable fit for me in terms of worship. I don't want to change churches because my family is happy in this one -- but I would like to find a non-Sunday morning alternative for myself. I'm really desiring something more traditional and maybe even liturgical. But when I've looked at some more traditional churches (i.e., Methodists, Presbyterian Church USA, the Congregational Church), their beliefs are very different from mine. And I'm not looking for a new belief system -- I'm looking for a worship environment that is, well, more contemplative or at the very least more "traditional." (Think "hymns." ;))

 

It also is occurring to me, the more I think about it, that the worship style of the church I'm in is problematic for me not just because I don't like the music -- to me, the worship style misses the mark in what it communicates about the Lord and about faith. I'm finding it hard to worship in that environment because it feels incomplete, somehow. Not sure if that makes any sense.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Maverick_Mom

[happypamama]

We love our CMA church, but it is definitely contemporary in worship. I suspect that worship style can vary from church to church.

 

Yes, absolutely! My CMA church growing up was largely traditional, but they have grown more contemporary over the years. The one we attend here is blended, I suppose; they do a mix of contemporary music and traditional hymns.

[Momofeat]

I have attended many churches that meet your criteria:

 

Southern Baptist

 

Christian (Church of Christ is non-instrumental; Disciples of Christ is usually more liberal. The Christian Church is conservative with music--and often traditional music.)

 

Presbyterian Church of America

 

Actually, most of the churches around here would meet your criteria. ;)

[happypamama]

Conservative = a traditional stance on social issues such as life (e.g., abortion), the role of women in the church, marriage, homosexuality, etc.

 

Evangelical -- this one is trickier. I don't want to step on anyone's toes by saying that "x" = evangelical when they believe in "y" and consider themselves evangelical. I'm not debating anyone else's interpretation of the word, just trying to communicate what I'm looking for. When I think "evangelical," I think of a church that believes that Jesus is who He says He is, that He means what He says, that the Bible is the Word of God and is as true today as it was when it was written (I believe in Biblical inerrancy -- I also believe there are parts of the Bible that don't make sense to us but that it's our problem, not the Bible's). *However* -- I don't believe that the gifts of the Spirit should be a litmus test of one's faith (which I think rules out AG churches, but I could be wrong on that).

 

 

This really sounds a lot like the CMA church where I grew up, though you'd have to find one whose worship style meshed with you. Their stances on social issues seem to match yours, and so does their interpretation of the Bible. There was a lot of attention given to an attitude of personal (as well as collective) worship, allowing God to speak to the individual person, and the other side is their strong stance toward world missions and serious undertaking of fulfilling the Great Commission.

[milovany]

Not a lot of advice, except to say (after reading your definitions) that the Orthodox church certainly fills that bill.

 

More, I wanted to say I feel for you! I recall very well moving from church to church over the years, always looking for one that combined the handful of things that were very important to us in one neat little package. It never happened. Then we got to the point of saying, "What? Why?" Why was there so much diversity in a Body that was supposed to be ONE? Why some beliefs that were diametrically opposed from denomination to denomination? Frustrating. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

Edited July 14, 2012 by milovaný

[Chris in VA]

If you can find a Calvary Chapel, you might like it. It can be contemporary, but I like their stance on things.

I have dear friends who were CMA--seems nice.

 

Anglican might work for you. Not Episcopalian, for the most part; tho you can find some individuals who might believe as you do, the church at large and "officially" doesn't.

[SophiaH]

 

Conservative = a traditional stance on social issues such as life (e.g., abortion), the role of women in the church, marriage, homosexuality, etc.

 

Evangelical -- this one is trickier. I don't want to step on anyone's toes by saying that "x" = evangelical when they believe in "y" and consider themselves evangelical. I'm not debating anyone else's interpretation of the word, just trying to communicate what I'm looking for. When I think "evangelical," I think of a church that believes that Jesus is who He says He is, that He means what He says, that the Bible is the Word of God and is as true today as it was when it was written (I believe in Biblical inerrancy -- I also believe there are parts of the Bible that don't make sense to us but that it's our problem, not the Bible's). *However* -- I don't believe that the gifts of the Spirit should be a litmus test of one's faith (which I think rules out AG churches, but I could be wrong on that).

 

I know that finding a church shouldn't be reduced to a formula (The Right Beliefs + The Right Worship Style = Living Happily Ever After :D). I'm just realizing that I'm uncomfortable with the worship style in our church, and it's occurred to me that every church I've attended which is a comfortable fit with my beliefs is not a comfortable fit for me in terms of worship. I don't want to change churches because my family is happy in this one -- but I would like to find a non-Sunday morning alternative for myself. I'm really desiring something more traditional and maybe even liturgical. But when I've looked at some more traditional churches (i.e., Methodists, Presbyterian Church USA, the Congregational Church), their beliefs are very different from mine. And I'm not looking for a new belief system -- I'm looking for a worship environment that is, well, more contemplative or at the very least more "traditional." (Think "hymns." ;))

 

It also is occurring to me, the more I think about it, that the worship style of the church I'm in is problematic for me not just because I don't like the music -- to me, the worship style misses the mark in what it communicates about the Lord and about faith. I'm finding it hard to worship in that environment because it feels incomplete, somehow. Not sure if that makes any sense.

 

Hello, myself, two years ago. :seeya:

 

Yes, what you say makes perfect sense. I didn't quite know what was missing but I knew something was: Thirsting for God in a Land of Shallow Wells spoke to me when I was at that point. Oh, and listen to Miss Patty Joanna. She's quite insightful. :001_smile:

[Susan C.]

Is there a Community Bible Study near you?

 

http://www.communitybiblestudy.org/

[ladydusk]

It also is occurring to me, the more I think about it, that the worship style of the church I'm in is problematic for me not just because I don't like the music -- to me, the worship style misses the mark in what it communicates about the Lord and about faith. I'm finding it hard to worship in that environment because it feels incomplete, somehow. Not sure if that makes any sense.

 

This makes complete sense to me.

 

I might suggest the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. Many of the congregations have Sunday evening worship.

[Marylou]

https://www.urcna.org/sysfiles/member/index_public.cfm?memberid=303

[3browneyedboys4me]

I am Moravian and find it the PERFECT balance. We've attended many different types of churches- baptist, methodist, pres., and none were for me. Moravian is simply perfect for our family- love, love, love my church!!!

 

Best wishes as I finding a church him is not an easy task!

[PeacefulChaos]

Evangelical -- this one is trickier. I don't want to step on anyone's toes by saying that "x" = evangelical when they believe in "y" and consider themselves evangelical. I'm not debating anyone else's interpretation of the word, just trying to communicate what I'm looking for. When I think "evangelical," I think of a church that believes that Jesus is who He says He is, that He means what He says, that the Bible is the Word of God and is as true today as it was when it was written (I believe in Biblical inerrancy -- I also believe there are parts of the Bible that don't make sense to us but that it's our problem, not the Bible's). *However* -- I don't believe that the gifts of the Spirit should be a litmus test of one's faith (which I think rules out AG churches, but I could be wrong on that).

 

 

To my knowledge, that wouldn't take AG churches out of the equation. I mean, it seems like what you are saying is that you don't believe that our faith should be measured by gifts of the Spirit - if that is the case, I don't know of an AG church that would disagree.

I will say that many AG churches can be contemporary in their worship, but there are still a lot who do hymns and such - my grandparents go to a church that still does hymns (cue my boys seeing a hymnal and asking, 'Mom? What is this? A Bible?' :lol: ) and I know that there are some very traditional congregations out there. That said, I don't know where you are or how easy it would be to find them - we now live in an area with one AG church, and we used to live/my grandparents currently live in an area with, oh, I don't know...30-50 of them? And that is where I can think of the more traditional ones. :)

We have a Calvary Chapel locally, and I don't know much about them but I do think they believe similarly to what you are saying and are a little more traditional in their worship than what my church is.

Another thing that came to my mind was like an 'old time pentecostal' type church. I know that sounds nutty :lol: but I have to wonder if something like that would be to your liking?

If this is all way out in left field, sorry! I'm really not familiar with baptist and other denominations. I've been AG my whole life so my experience with other things is quite limited. :)

I do hope you find what you are looking for! :grouphug:

[Juniper]

I think you may want to define Liturgical next. ;)

 

Within the my understanding of Liturgical none of the modern (last 100 years) denoms will really fit the bill. Definitely not AG or Calvary Chapel.

 

If your family is happy where they are at, might I suggest taking things really slow and reading books about the more liturgical traditions from converts to the those traditions.

 

For EO, this would be the one perviously recommended or The Orthodox Church by Ware. For RC, I think there are some good books by Scott Hahn(sp?), but they could probably recommend better ones. :D. I know the Anglicans, Methodists, and Presbyterians would have great recs for what led them the way to their respective denoms/branches.

 

Combining that with Patty Joanna's reqs would be (in my mind) a very enlightening experience.

 

Take care! and many blessings on your journey. :001_smile:

Edited July 14, 2012 by Juniper

[Juniper]

:iagree:This exactly why I didn't just say RC or EO. I can't see either of them fitting what I know of as evangelical.

 

Now, while I'm thinking about it, does the EO church have what could be or is considered a charismatic branch?

It does not have a separate branch, but as a former Pentecostal there was nothing I had to give up or change in the regards to those specific beliefs.

 

Beliefs specific to my former denomination....yes, but not the idea of speaking in tongues in general.

 

Hope that makes some sense. ;) Feel free to pm if you have further questions. :001_smile:

[besroma]

OPC, RPCUS, and PCA, though the style of worship can vary quite a bit in different PCA churches. Some have a traditional service and a contemporary service (music) on the same morning.

[Juniper]

OPC, RPCUS, and PCA, though the style of worship can vary quite a bit in different PCA churches. Some have a traditional service and a contemporary service (music) on the same morning.

 

 

I am only using your post as an example, as it illustrates something I am becoming confused on. I understand what contemporary means and I thought I understood what traditional was, but in my mind neither of those were liturgical. I was under the impression that liturgical had to do with a specific repeating "ritual" type service (sorry I am lacking in a better term right now), and observing a yearly liturgical cycle, both in scripture readings (sermon subjects) and celebrations (feasts and fasts of some sort.)

 

Regardless, I am not sure how the OP is interpreting the term, but I have found some of the suggestions very interesting. :001_smile:

[ElizabethB]

Reformed Baptist. We didn't like the music that much! We prefer a mix of hymns and contemporary music. But, we go for message first. (We move a lot and have been to many different types of churches. We try to find the closest Biblical church where we don't dislike the music, but will go for message over music in a pinch, especially if it is expected to be a short stay.)

 

In the Bible Belt, the United Methodist churches would fit the bill, we went to a United Methodist church in Alabama that was like that, we went to a contemporary service but they had a more traditional service as well. Outside of the Bible Belt, the United Methodist churches may or may not fit the bill for you.

[8circles]

I am only using your post as an example, as it illustrates something I am becoming confused on. I understand what contemporary means and I thought I understood what traditional was, but in my mind neither of those were liturgical. I was under the impression that liturgical had to do with a specific repeating "ritual" type service (sorry I am lacking in a better term right now), and observing a yearly liturgical cycle, both in scripture readings (sermon subjects) and celebrations (feasts and fasts of some sort.)

 

Regardless, I am not sure how the OP is interpreting the term, but I have found some of the suggestions very interesting. :001_smile:

 

This is the first time I've seen this site but I thought it was a good general definition of the term from the Protestant perspective. IMO at least.

http://www.crivoice.org/whatisliturgy.html

[milovany]

This is the first time I've seen this site but I thought it was a good general definition of the term from the Protestant perspective. IMO at least.

http://www.crivoice.org/whatisliturgy.html

 

That was interesting, Allison, thanks for posting it.

[Maverick_Mom]

I don't mean to be offensive in what I am going to say, so please do not read it that way.

 

I really doubt you are looking for a denomination. I think you are probably looking for something else. Maybe that is worth thinking about. Ask God to lead you, and continue to seek Him and Him alone. He will be found, but only if you seek Him.

 

Look at what Christ commanded in the NT. That is what I have been doing lately...recording the commands of Christ in the NT. It's about a lot more than a new denomination. Right?

 

I'm not offended at all. But I'm confused -- what is the 'something else' I might be looking for, if not a denomination? To me, a denomination is just a way to classify a particular group of people who believe certain things.

 

Not a lot of advice, except to say (after reading your definitions) that the Orthodox church certainly fills that bill.

 

More, I wanted to say I feel for you! I recall very well moving from church to church over the years, always looking for one that combined the handful of things that were very important to us in one neat little package. It never happened. Then we got to the point of saying, "What? Why?" Why was there so much diversity in a Body that was supposed to be ONE? Why some beliefs that were diametrically opposed from denomination to denomination? Frustrating. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Although I've been a lifelong Protestant, I am not averse to worshipping in a Catholic or an Eastern Orthodox church.

 

And when you asked those questions... what did you find?

 

Hello, myself, two years ago. :seeya:

 

Yes, what you say makes perfect sense. I didn't quite know what was missing but I knew something was: Thirsting for God in a Land of Shallow Wells spoke to me when I was at that point. Oh, and listen to Miss Patty Joanna. She's quite insightful. :001_smile:

 

I'm glad to know I'm in good company in my quest. :) I'll look for that book (and will listen to Patty!).

 

Is there a Community Bible Study near you?

 

http://www.communitybiblestudy.org/

 

Good question. I attended one in another state many years ago.

 

 

To my knowledge, that wouldn't take AG churches out of the equation. I mean, it seems like what you are saying is that you don't believe that our faith should be measured by gifts of the Spirit - if that is the case, I don't know of an AG church that would disagree.

 

What I have *heard* (and I could be wrong) is that in the AG church, speaking in tongues is considered proof that you are filled with the Holy Spirit. No tongues, no Holy Spirit. I do believe that the gift of tongues and the other gifts as well are alive today, but I'm uncomfortable with the idea that one *must* possess that particular gift.

 

I think you may want to define Liturgical next. ;)

 

By liturgical, I mean scripted prayers and readings that occur at particular times. That's not a requirement for me -- I just mentioned it because it represents the degree of tradition that I'd consider. See, I have run into people who say that liturgy is for the lazy believer -- that you just recite the words unthinkingly instead of being truly inspired when you pray. (Wonder if they'd say the same thing about the Pledge of Allegiance?) I'm not buying that. I think that traditional prayers and readings can actually help one focus and reflect.

 

If your family is happy where they are at, might I suggest taking things really slow and reading books about the more liturgical traditions from converts to the those traditions.

 

This is exactly what I'm doing right now. I've found several books at my library and am writing down the recommendations you and others have given me. :)

 

Thanks so much to everyone for your suggestions and thoughts. I have a longer list of options than I thought possible!

Edited July 14, 2012 by Maverick_Mom

[Maverick_Mom]

Outside of the Bible Belt, the United Methodist churches may or may not fit the bill for you.

 

My inlaws (who lived in the Northeast) attended a UMC and had a pastor a while back who did not believe in a literal resurrection. For me, that would be a deal breaker.

[8circles]

My inlaws (who lived in the Northeast) attended a UMC and had a pastor a while back who did not believe in a literal resurrection. For me, that would be a deal breaker.

 

They also ordain women. Im not sure if you said something about that either way.

[Verity]

My Anglican church refers to itself as being "three streams"--Evangelical, Liturgical/Sacramental, and Charismatic/Pentecostal. Best of everything. :D

 

 

Hmm, this sounds like my church...are you part of the Charismatic Episcopal Church by chance?

 

We have the full liturgy at every service (priests/deacons in robes), have traditional and contemporary music, are socially conservative but also evangelical in our outreach. It's a very rich expression of the Christian church.