Aspergers and Immunization...

[BMW]

My son was given one immunization at 2 weeks of age... I think it was a hepatitis, but could not be sure... It was obvious by 6 weeks that he had multiple food allergies and he received no more immunizations during his infancy/toddlerhood... The Dr. was fairly old school and wouldn't diagnose his autism (he had very specific qualifications by two years of age and should have been diagnosed) because the Dr. said he (my son) had an emotional bond with me and gave family members eye contact (he didn't give many other people eye contact)... Anyway... he was diagnosed with aspergers by a new pediatrician at age 6...

 

Now he is 12 and goes to public school and is such a bright, witty boy who tries so hard!!! I adore him, of course...

 

And he still has not had immunizations. Most of my children are immunized, although I insisted on delayed immunizations for them, thimerosol (sp) free options and over many years... definitely not the recommended protocol/schedule by any means...

 

I put in a call to our pediatrician because the school requires up to date immunizations (I have always signed a waiver without any problems)... and anyway, I thought I would get the ped's recommendation for if my son should get any immunizations... which ones to pick... He no longer has any food allergies.

 

Please let me know your opinion, but also provide some support for it... If we could avoid getting personal/debating that would be great. I don't mind reading through strong opinions for or against. But, can we let each other alone as we share?

 

Thanks... it's hard to make this decision... my son is SO great... I don't want his health or his brain messed with in ANY way... sigh... and the only reason I am considering immunizations at all is that he has an entire life ahead of him and perhaps he should have some of them....

[Lara in Colo]

It has never been proven (or not proven) that what your son has is caused by immunizations. I personally think there is some truth to the theory.

I don't trust the drug companies.

Go with your mommy gut and do what you think is best.

[thefragile7393]

I'd do way more research. You can always vaccinate, or he can over 18. Can't take it back. I like www.insidevaccines.info because of it's use of stuff like PubMed. Stuff that is hard to argue with, but it does at least give you a lot to think about.

[lexi]

I agree that you need to research and then do what is most comfortable to you.

I have severely allergic kids so I question everything and might do some things a little differently. But the decisions we've made we feel comfortable with. It's such a hard decision and there are such strong feelings on either side. I totally understand your concern though. I've worried about many of the same things.

[amy g.]

I wish I knew the answer.

 

I have one very under immunized child who has so many food allergies. When she gets something with MSG, she has black circles under her eyes like zombie makeup.

 

Dh wants to get her "caught up" on her shots. I've read some contain MSG to keep them stable at various temps.

 

I just don't know what to do.

[melmichigan]

I agree, research and do what works for your family. My aspie and all my other kids have had immunizations, just not every one recommended, and on a different schedule. I never had any problems with my pediatrician, he has been very understanding and we discuss which ones to give priority to and how to divide them.

[NASDAQ]

I'm sorry your son has food allergies.

 

Every serious study, save for the discredited Wakefield study, has found that vaccination does not affect Autism or Autism spectrum disorders. In fact, in countries with different vaccination schedules, the Autism rate stays the same.

 

It can be somewhat frightening that the Autism rate appears to have sky-rocketed, but if you read back in the literature (I was on the ground for this; my brother was an early Autism spectrum kid), we are diagnosing children with autism whom previously would never have been considered autistic. Previously these children were considered odd or retarded or anti-social, and the help they needed was not available. But now that we _do_ have effective autism treatments, obviously the impetus to find autism is much higher. And we diagnose much more mild forms of the disorder. Aspergers, of course, didn't exist in most doctor's minds until the late nineties.

[QueenCat]

Both of my children have had all the immunizations dictated by the normal protocols. My older son had several exposures to thimersol. He does NOT have autism. My younger had no exposure to thimersol. He has Asperger Syndrome (aka autism). I do not believe that in my child's case immunizations had anything to do with having a form of autism. There is no medical evidence to indicate otherwise.

[WishboneDawn]

I'm sorry your son has food allergies.

 

Every serious study, save for the discredited Wakefield study, has found that vaccination does not affect Autism or Autism spectrum disorders. In fact, in countries with different vaccination schedules, the Autism rate stays the same.

 

It can be somewhat frightening that the Autism rate appears to have sky-rocketed, but if you read back in the literature (I was on the ground for this; my brother was an early Autism spectrum kid), we are diagnosing children with autism whom previously would never have been considered autistic. Previously these children were considered odd or retarded or anti-social, and the help they needed was not available. But now that we _do_ have effective autism treatments, obviously the impetus to find autism is much higher. And we diagnose much more mild forms of the disorder. Aspergers, of course, didn't exist in most doctor's minds until the late nineties.

 

The damage that one bogus study has done and continues to do is astonishing.

 

Good post.

[Carrie12345]

I am a vax skeptic.

I have a child with Asperger's.

I'm 99% sure vaccines have nothing to do with the autism spectrum.

 

Do with that what you will. ;)

[OH_Homeschooler]

I'm sorry your son has food allergies.

 

Every serious study, save for the discredited Wakefield study, has found that vaccination does not affect Autism or Autism spectrum disorders. In fact, in countries with different vaccination schedules, the Autism rate stays the same.

 

It can be somewhat frightening that the Autism rate appears to have sky-rocketed, but if you read back in the literature (I was on the ground for this; my brother was an early Autism spectrum kid), we are diagnosing children with autism whom previously would never have been considered autistic. Previously these children were considered odd or retarded or anti-social, and the help they needed was not available. But now that we _do_ have effective autism treatments, obviously the impetus to find autism is much higher. And we diagnose much more mild forms of the disorder. Aspergers, of course, didn't exist in most doctor's minds until the late nineties.

:iagree:

[saraha]

My oldest two children had their vaccines on the regular schedule, one is diagnosed aspergers, the other has tendencies. I don't know if the vaccines, their reactions to the vaccines or genetics are responsible. What we did with the rest of my children was to pick and choose vaccines. None have had the chicken pox one, all had whooping cough vac last year because there had been several cases of it in our area and I had a small baby. They have all had tetnus shots because we live/work on a farm. I have made sure that they were not given a combo vaccine.

 

We took into account that we live in a very rural area with little to no immigrant activity, and have basically been relying on herd immunity, everyone we know's children have been vaccinated. If/ when my kids want to go to school or camp, we will get what our pediatrician recommends and not worry too much since our kids will be older and their bodies more able to handle it. I don't have any research to back any of this up, it is just what we are comfortable with.

 

Just go with your gut.

[elise1mds]

Mine have had their vaccinations on the traditional schedule. I have one with Asperger's and one without. Genetics dictate that my children are likely to (and do) have psychological issues, so I'm reasonably sure that even if I hadn't gotten them a single vaccination, we'd still be where we are today.

 

That being said, you are the mom :) You will do what is best for your child, and that is what matters.

[hsmamainva]

My oldest son had the hep b vax right after birth and he has asperger's.

 

We stopped vaccinating completely in 1999 (so my youngest son had his first years shots, but nothing after that -- including the MMR).

 

Our youngest daughter has never had any vaccinations and she has autism -- and very significant autism. She's not high functioning. She has the verbal skills of a 3 year old and the academic level of a 1st-2nd grader.

 

So I no longer believe that vaccinations have anything to do with why two of our children are on the autism spectrum. I DO believe it may be something environmental -- something we're putting into the food / water / air, etc.

 

My husband is of the mind that it might be something WE were vaccinated with that has somehow mutated our DNA.

 

I do NOT believe that there's more autism cases diagnosed because we're better at spotting it. That's like saying we're having more hurricanes because our radar has improved. But I don't know what the trigger is -- or there may be multiple triggers.

Edited July 12, 2012 by hsmamainva
added more

[Momof3littles]

I think genetics and environment can have interplay, which is basically what the field of epigentics is about. I haven't really seen too much teasing out of that in studies. Instead of looking at the incidence spread across the entire population, I'm talking about reserach looking specifically at those who are vulnerable from an epigenetic standpoint and looking at whether certain exposures (vaccination and other environmental exposures) can activate those genes. Epigenetic research is still in the early days IMO...there's some research out there, but not enough.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Momof3littles

[NASDAQ]

"I do NOT believe that there's more autism cases diagnosed because we're better at spotting it. That's like saying we're having more hurricanes because our radar has improved."

 

We're calling things autism now that we wouldn't have called autism 50 years ago. The diagnostic criteria have become more fixed and much broader. I'm not saying that's the entire cause of the rise, but it's a big part of what has happened.

 

There might appear to be more hurricanes if we're calling things hurricanes that we previously called something else, or ignored entirely.

[golfcartmama]

Provided as info, everyone should do their own research and make decisions in their family's best interest.

 

http://www.naturalnews.com/036255_MMR_autism_court_case.html

 

http://www.naturalnews.com/036220_vaccinated_children_disease_allergies.html

 

http://www.naturalnews.com/035466_whooping_cough_vaccines_outbreaks.html

 

These are just from the Natural News site, but they have the sources listed at the end of each article for further research.

[NASDAQ]

British and American courts have repeatedly found that MMR is not related to Autism, and that Autism is not a vaccine-caused injury.

 

The sources at the bottom of the Natural News articles are not academic sources. They are just other vaccine opposers -- blogs, anti-vaccine websites, highly alternative news providers, and one Daily Mail (!) article.

[TracyP]

"I do NOT believe that there's more autism cases diagnosed because we're better at spotting it. That's like saying we're having more hurricanes because our radar has improved."

 

We're calling things autism now that we wouldn't have called autism 50 years ago. The diagnostic criteria have become more fixed and much broader. I'm not saying that's the entire cause of the rise, but it's a big part of what has happened.

 

There might appear to be more hurricanes if we're calling things hurricanes that we previously called something else, or ignored entirely.

 

I'm sure you are right in part. However, did you see the study that came out this year? NY Times and CNN. 45% rise from 2002 to 2008. I heard a lot of talk when it came out and the one overwhelming response was that we can no longer say this is due to better/changes in diagnosing.

 

I personally don't believe vaccines are the cause.

I do vaccinate on a delayed schedule.

[hsmamainva]

"I do NOT believe that there's more autism cases diagnosed because we're better at spotting it. That's like saying we're having more hurricanes because our radar has improved."

 

We're calling things autism now that we wouldn't have called autism 50 years ago. The diagnostic criteria have become more fixed and much broader. I'm not saying that's the entire cause of the rise, but it's a big part of what has happened.

 

There might appear to be more hurricanes if we're calling things hurricanes that we previously called something else, or ignored entirely.

 

Yes, I do think it's a combination of factors.

 

I certainly believe that Aspergers just wasn't recognized / diagnosed in previous years. I often tell people that, thirty years ago, my son would've been thought of as a "geek" or a "nerd".

 

If you've ever watched The Big Bang Theory, my son and Sheldon could be twins! He doesn't have a sky high IQ, but all of the social quirks, mannerisms, and hobbies are nearly identical to Sheldon's. My son watches that show every night and just laughs and laughs about how alike they are. ;)

 

What's puzzling to me are those cases where it's a more severe form of autism. Those are the ones where I think there's more to it than "we're just better at diagnosing it".

 

Make sense?

[NASDAQ]

Yes, I do think it's a combination of factors.

 

I certainly believe that Aspergers just wasn't recognized / diagnosed in previous years. I often tell people that, thirty years ago, my son would've been thought of as a "geek" or a "nerd".

 

If you've ever watched The Big Bang Theory, my son and Sheldon could be twins! He doesn't have a sky high IQ, but all of the social quirks, mannerisms, and hobbies are nearly identical to Sheldon's. My son watches that show every night and just laughs and laughs about how alike they are. ;)

 

What's puzzling to me are those cases where it's a more severe form of autism. Those are the ones where I think there's more to it than "we're just better at diagnosing it".

 

Make sense?

 

Absolutely, although a lot of those kids were diagnosed as mentally retarded or mentally ill. But there's other factors in the mix, I agree. One I saw was that people with the genetic predisposition to AS are marrying other people with that disposition and having children more often. I also think that we've created a society that is in many ways more difficult for kids with AS than some other societies might be. We depend a lot on soft social skills and interacting with a very large number of people (rather than the same few people over and over).

 

It would be interesting to look at the severe cases isolated from the rest.

[Kathryn]

DS1 was vaccinated on the doc's schedule. His allergies may have had something to do with that, IDK. His allergies showed up at 3.5 months. But, he was who he was from birth.

 

DS2 is being vaccinated on a delayed schedule and he didn't get the rotavirus one. That's because of his brother's allergies though, not his brother's ASD.

[QueenCat]

I certainly believe that Aspergers just wasn't recognized / diagnosed in previous years. I often tell people that, thirty years ago, my son would've been thought of as a "geek" or a "nerd".

 

Make sense?

 

Not really... but sometimes. My son has Aspergers. Most of the geeks and nerds I knew "way back when" and now did not have major sensory issues or repetitious behaviors, or most of the other diagnostic criteria that determines whether or not someone has Aspergers. I do think that there are many folks that mistakenly put the label on the geek or the socially inept despite that person not meeting the diagnostic criteria. I'm mostly thinking of diagnosticians that aren't fully qualified, parents that read one article & suddenly decide their child has it, teachers who took a seminar & are suddenly experts, etc.

[pdalley]

The older two were vaccinated on schedule. The youngest was selectively spaced out - never had a single reaction to anything. He is now caught up and they are all fully vaccinated - excepting the Guardisial, Flu vaccine and meningitis.

 

All are on the spectrum. I can trace autistic trait on my side of the family to Pre Civil War era. DH's family is quite 'quirky' as well. He's an engineer.

 

Basically we make Aspies.

 

I researched and could not find a link between my kids and autism and vaccines. But I respect the right of every parent to do what they feel is right of their kids as far as vaccines go.

[Walking-Iris]

I believe that vaccines were a cause in my ds's case. He received every vaccine they offered at that time on a delayed schedule (we have never done flu vaccines and they didn't offer rotovirus at that time) and he was developmentally and emotionally and socially on a normal timetable. He received his first MMR at 2.5 years of age instead of the typical 12 months and 2-3 months later he stopped potty learning, stopped talking, seemed to forget how to use his spoon and fork, started stimming and became extremely picky and self limiting about food, and hyper focused on limited interests. It honestly felt like my ds had been abducted and replaced with some "changeling."

 

I decided with my second ds to stay on a delayed schedule but to be more selective about vaccines so we would pass on polio and MMR and hep B (as well as continue to pass on flu shots and the new rotovirus they were offering). So it was DTaP/Prevnar and HIB that he would get. He screamed and cried non-stop for 3.5 hours after his first appt, we nearly took him into the ER it was so scary, until he cried himself out from exhaustion. I mentioned it at our next appt and I was told that a DTaP and Prevnar given together could cause a reaction and it was suggested that he get them in separate shots. I then had to make one appt for DTaP and another the next month for Prevnar. I admit I saw red. If they know a reaction is possible, why not separate those shots to begin with, why wait for it before they suggest that? I stopped vaccinating him and my youngest child has never had a vaccine shot. Both have no signs of spectrum issues at this time. And some of the side effects? No one has been able to tell me yet how I'm supposed to know if a 4 month old is dizzy or hallucinating or has a bad headache?

 

Wakefield's study was actually focused on the gastrointestinal issues that children with autism seem to share in common to various degrees and he was able to make a connection between the rubella component in the MMR. I was very interested in it since my ds's biggest challenge has been with bowel issues and digestive issues. Also thimerosol isn't the only concern---I'm more concerned with the high level of aluminum. I'm concerned that my dd had allergic reactions to eggs as an infant and I most certainly would not have been able to know that at 2 or 4 months old. I'm glad she wasn't vaccinated.

 

For the OP or anyone else trying to make this decision. It's your decision. You can research and read and listen to anecdotes from both camps until the end of time. It's your choice. I don't believe anyone--the govt, a dr, a school---anyone has the right or authority to tell a parent that they must inject their children with known neuro-toxins. It's my authority as a parent to make preventive health decisions. I also don't buy the logic that putting my children in potential risk with vaccines is somehow my duty to protect the unknown variable out there who may be "protected" by my risk. I guess I'm not that altruistic. Maybe because I know the life long struggles that my ds will have now.

 

I don't necessarily believe that vaccines "cause" these issues however, but I do believe they put kids who are susceptible at a higher risk. An analogy I like is to think of a block tower. When kids are born with the genetic potential for developmental issues, metabolic, gastrointestinal, mitochondrial issues, that can manifest in autism, ADHD, allergies, sensory and other issues, there's no guarantee of the severity or ways it will show itself. Or even if it will. It's not a guarantee that a sibling will have an issue. We can't predict this or predict how it will end up. I had a Dr tell me that it "just happens" :glare: Nothing just happens! I firmly believe that when we begin to overload these kids with this unseen potential or susceptibility with environmental toxins--vaccines, additives in food, stuff sprayed on lawns, that "new car" smell, stuff in plastics, stuff in screens, and on and on and on in our modern world--it's like building a tower, eventually something will cause it to topple.

 

I honestly believe the metaphor that our autistic kiddos are canaries in the mine shaft. Maybe vaccines are too much for one child's nervous system, maybe it's something else for another. But I do believe that something *outside* of our kids' bodies is causing this epidemic. All I can do as a parent is reduce the exposure and load on our bodies as much as I can, knowing that I will likely never be able to avoid all potential toxins. Ha! not possible. I just do what I can. I would never tell another parent *not* to vaccinate their child, that is not my right or choice. But I can share my anecdote and thoughts if asked. I also think there needs to be more respect and sensitivity from medical professionals and people in general about the very real changes some parents have noticed after vaccines. It's insulting in a very big way to dismiss a parent's pain and observation as ridiculous or unintelligent. Parents know a child more intimately and can recognize subtle things that are off better than most.

[chiguirre]

If you vaccinate an older child, you can skip a lot of vaccines that are targeted to infants. I was amazed at all the things on the full vax list that dd didn't need because she was older when we started. Schools don't require everything on the regular vaccination schedule either, so you may not be looking at that many overall vaccines or many newer vaccines. I'd start by getting the list and seeing what he actually needs and then researching those. Personally, I find it less frightening to vaccinate an older child who can communicate what they're feeling. You won't have to guess if they're having a reaction or not, they can tell you what's going on.

[NASDAQ]

Not really... but sometimes. My son has Aspergers. Most of the geeks and nerds I knew "way back when" and now did not have major sensory issues or repetitious behaviors, or most of the other diagnostic criteria that determines whether or not someone has Aspergers. I do think that there are many folks that mistakenly put the label on the geek or the socially inept despite that person not meeting the diagnostic criteria. I'm mostly thinking of diagnosticians that aren't fully qualified, parents that read one article & suddenly decide their child has it, teachers who took a seminar & are suddenly experts, etc.

 

It's definitely a problem when kids get diagnosed by someone who isn't as qualified as we'd like. But I don't think it's so much that "AS kids are just geeks," but "25 years ago we didn't have a word for what we now call AS." The problems still existed, but were mostly ignored, or considered character flaws, or slid under other headings.

 

I had a late talker and people who should have known better were saying, oh, maybe she has autism. Well no. Late talking may be characteristic of autism, but a child who has no other problems (no sensory issues, social, makes eye contact, no repetitious behaviour) is not autistic. But people get tunnel vision.

[Katy]

I know this is an older thread, but I read this yesterday about some of the studies that DO indicate vaccines can be a factor, and thought it was interesting: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/autism-vaccine-_b_817879.html

[tomandlorih]

I believe that vaccines were a cause in my ds's case. He received every vaccine they offered at that time on a delayed schedule (we have never done flu vaccines and they didn't offer rotovirus at that time) and he was developmentally and emotionally and socially on a normal timetable. He received his first MMR at 2.5 years of age instead of the typical 12 months and 2-3 months later he stopped potty learning, stopped talking, seemed to forget how to use his spoon and fork, started stimming and became extremely picky and self limiting about food, and hyper focused on limited interests. It honestly felt like my ds had been abducted and replaced with some "changeling."

 

I decided with my second ds to stay on a delayed schedule but to be more selective about vaccines so we would pass on polio and MMR and hep B (as well as continue to pass on flu shots and the new rotovirus they were offering). So it was DTaP/Prevnar and HIB that he would get. He screamed and cried non-stop for 3.5 hours after his first appt, we nearly took him into the ER it was so scary, until he cried himself out from exhaustion. I mentioned it at our next appt and I was told that a DTaP and Prevnar given together could cause a reaction and it was suggested that he get them in separate shots. I then had to make one appt for DTaP and another the next month for Prevnar. I admit I saw red. If they know a reaction is possible, why not separate those shots to begin with, why wait for it before they suggest that? I stopped vaccinating him and my youngest child has never had a vaccine shot. Both have no signs of spectrum issues at this time. And some of the side effects? No one has been able to tell me yet how I'm supposed to know if a 4 month old is dizzy or hallucinating or has a bad headache?

 

Wakefield's study was actually focused on the gastrointestinal issues that children with autism seem to share in common to various degrees and he was able to make a connection between the rubella component in the MMR. I was very interested in it since my ds's biggest challenge has been with bowel issues and digestive issues. Also thimerosol isn't the only concern---I'm more concerned with the high level of aluminum. I'm concerned that my dd had allergic reactions to eggs as an infant and I most certainly would not have been able to know that at 2 or 4 months old. I'm glad she wasn't vaccinated.

 

For the OP or anyone else trying to make this decision. It's your decision. You can research and read and listen to anecdotes from both camps until the end of time. It's your choice. I don't believe anyone--the govt, a dr, a school---anyone has the right or authority to tell a parent that they must inject their children with known neuro-toxins. It's my authority as a parent to make preventive health decisions. I also don't buy the logic that putting my children in potential risk with vaccines is somehow my duty to protect the unknown variable out there who may be "protected" by my risk. I guess I'm not that altruistic. Maybe because I know the life long struggles that my ds will have now.

 

I don't necessarily believe that vaccines "cause" these issues however, but I do believe they put kids who are susceptible at a higher risk. An analogy I like is to think of a block tower. When kids are born with the genetic potential for developmental issues, metabolic, gastrointestinal, mitochondrial issues, that can manifest in autism, ADHD, allergies, sensory and other issues, there's no guarantee of the severity or ways it will show itself. Or even if it will. It's not a guarantee that a sibling will have an issue. We can't predict this or predict how it will end up. I had a Dr tell me that it "just happens" :glare: Nothing just happens! I firmly believe that when we begin to overload these kids with this unseen potential or susceptibility with environmental toxins--vaccines, additives in food, stuff sprayed on lawns, that "new car" smell, stuff in plastics, stuff in screens, and on and on and on in our modern world--it's like building a tower, eventually something will cause it to topple.

 

I honestly believe the metaphor that our autistic kiddos are canaries in the mine shaft. Maybe vaccines are too much for one child's nervous system, maybe it's something else for another. But I do believe that something *outside* of our kids' bodies is causing this epidemic. All I can do as a parent is reduce the exposure and load on our bodies as much as I can, knowing that I will likely never be able to avoid all potential toxins. Ha! not possible. I just do what I can. I would never tell another parent *not* to vaccinate their child, that is not my right or choice. But I can share my anecdote and thoughts if asked. I also think there needs to be more respect and sensitivity from medical professionals and people in general about the very real changes some parents have noticed after vaccines. It's insulting in a very big way to dismiss a parent's pain and observation as ridiculous or unintelligent. Parents know a child more intimately and can recognize subtle things that are off better than most.

 

Very well put!

[tomandlorih]

If you vaccinate an older child, you can skip a lot of vaccines that are targeted to infants. I was amazed at all the things on the full vax list that dd didn't need because she was older when we started. Schools don't require everything on the regular vaccination schedule either, so you may not be looking at that many overall vaccines or many newer vaccines. I'd start by getting the list and seeing what he actually needs and then researching those. Personally, I find it less frightening to vaccinate an older child who can communicate what they're feeling. You won't have to guess if they're having a reaction or not, they can tell you what's going on.

 

:iagree: That older children *should* be better able to handle it. More body weight for the same amount of adjuvants anyway. You can get your kids tested to see if they already have natural immunity (or whatever you call it, somebody help me out here). My kids were exposed to whooping cough(pertussis) but never got it.. it's possible they fought it off and now have those antibodies(immunity) so I would definitely test for it before getting them that shot.

 

Personally, I think a lot of vaccines (especially pertussis) need to be re-tested for efficacy. There are quite a few cases of pertussis here in WA state.. The 2 cases where I know the kids personally, both of them had been vaccinated for it! :001_huh:

 

It's such a personal choice. and a hard decision. Wishing you total peace with your final decision!

[mommy5]

I have a child with somewhat LF autism... I don't think vax caused it ... but I think it makes his symptoms worse. He has severe food allergies and before his diet (allergy diet) he would have episodes of worsening stimming/inappropriate laughter and bad behavior when eating foods he was allergic to ... he also did this with vax. I think it stimulates his immune system in a neg way.

[tomandlorih]

I know this is an older thread, but I read this yesterday about some of the studies that DO indicate vaccines can be a factor, and thought it was interesting: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/autism-vaccine-_b_817879.html

 

I was thinking, "Oh drat.. I got suckered in again" but then I looked and the original post was .. today?? :confused: LOL

 

I'll have to read the article later though.. it's dinnertime:D

[mommy5]

I believe that vaccines were a cause in my ds's case. He received every vaccine they offered at that time on a delayed schedule (we have never done flu vaccines and they didn't offer rotovirus at that time) and he was developmentally and emotionally and socially on a normal timetable. He received his first MMR at 2.5 years of age instead of the typical 12 months and 2-3 months later he stopped potty learning, stopped talking, seemed to forget how to use his spoon and fork, started stimming and became extremely picky and self limiting about food, and hyper focused on limited interests. It honestly felt like my ds had been abducted and replaced with some "changeling."

 

I decided with my second ds to stay on a delayed schedule but to be more selective about vaccines so we would pass on polio and MMR and hep B (as well as continue to pass on flu shots and the new rotovirus they were offering). So it was DTaP/Prevnar and HIB that he would get. He screamed and cried non-stop for 3.5 hours after his first appt, we nearly took him into the ER it was so scary, until he cried himself out from exhaustion. I mentioned it at our next appt and I was told that a DTaP and Prevnar given together could cause a reaction and it was suggested that he get them in separate shots. I then had to make one appt for DTaP and another the next month for Prevnar. I admit I saw red. If they know a reaction is possible, why not separate those shots to begin with, why wait for it before they suggest that? I stopped vaccinating him and my youngest child has never had a vaccine shot. Both have no signs of spectrum issues at this time. And some of the side effects? No one has been able to tell me yet how I'm supposed to know if a 4 month old is dizzy or hallucinating or has a bad headache?

 

Wakefield's study was actually focused on the gastrointestinal issues that children with autism seem to share in common to various degrees and he was able to make a connection between the rubella component in the MMR. I was very interested in it since my ds's biggest challenge has been with bowel issues and digestive issues. Also thimerosol isn't the only concern---I'm more concerned with the high level of aluminum. I'm concerned that my dd had allergic reactions to eggs as an infant and I most certainly would not have been able to know that at 2 or 4 months old. I'm glad she wasn't vaccinated.

 

For the OP or anyone else trying to make this decision. It's your decision. You can research and read and listen to anecdotes from both camps until the end of time. It's your choice. I don't believe anyone--the govt, a dr, a school---anyone has the right or authority to tell a parent that they must inject their children with known neuro-toxins. It's my authority as a parent to make preventive health decisions. I also don't buy the logic that putting my children in potential risk with vaccines is somehow my duty to protect the unknown variable out there who may be "protected" by my risk. I guess I'm not that altruistic. Maybe because I know the life long struggles that my ds will have now.

 

I don't necessarily believe that vaccines "cause" these issues however, but I do believe they put kids who are susceptible at a higher risk. An analogy I like is to think of a block tower. When kids are born with the genetic potential for developmental issues, metabolic, gastrointestinal, mitochondrial issues, that can manifest in autism, ADHD, allergies, sensory and other issues, there's no guarantee of the severity or ways it will show itself. Or even if it will. It's not a guarantee that a sibling will have an issue. We can't predict this or predict how it will end up. I had a Dr tell me that it "just happens" :glare: Nothing just happens! I firmly believe that when we begin to overload these kids with this unseen potential or susceptibility with environmental toxins--vaccines, additives in food, stuff sprayed on lawns, that "new car" smell, stuff in plastics, stuff in screens, and on and on and on in our modern world--it's like building a tower, eventually something will cause it to topple.

 

I honestly believe the metaphor that our autistic kiddos are canaries in the mine shaft. Maybe vaccines are too much for one child's nervous system, maybe it's something else for another. But I do believe that something *outside* of our kids' bodies is causing this epidemic. All I can do as a parent is reduce the exposure and load on our bodies as much as I can, knowing that I will likely never be able to avoid all potential toxins. Ha! not possible. I just do what I can. I would never tell another parent *not* to vaccinate their child, that is not my right or choice. But I can share my anecdote and thoughts if asked. I also think there needs to be more respect and sensitivity from medical professionals and people in general about the very real changes some parents have noticed after vaccines. It's insulting in a very big way to dismiss a parent's pain and observation as ridiculous or unintelligent. Parents know a child more intimately and can recognize subtle things that are off better than most.

 

My son got his MMR around 15 months and by 22 months stopped saying words that he could say and started having severe SID with texture. He also started having bowel trouble around 15 months ... chronic diarrhea. He suffered with that for years and we couldn't figure out what was going on until we finally diagnosed his food allergies (took 3 different tests over many years to finally come to that). I'm curious if kids with autism really have an autoimmune condition and that is the connection with the vaccines.

[Katy]

I was thinking, "Oh drat.. I got suckered in again" but then I looked and the original post was .. today?? :confused: LOL

 

I'll have to read the article later though.. it's dinnertime:D

 

hehe.. I think I got it mixed up with another thread I had just read. Anyway, it's an interesting article. The gist is - there are some recent studies that indicate that there is some link - however not vaccinating is just as silly as blindly vaccinating

[mommy5]

Read this last night ... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21058170

[OH_Homeschooler]

Has anyone come across research on kids with autism who were never vaccinated?

[DianeW88]

If you do nothing else, get him the meningitis vaccine. That disease can kill your child in 24 hours, often before you even know he is seriously ill. Teens are also more likely to be affected than younger kids, because they spend more time with their peers. It is nothing to mess around with. It is swift and it is deadly, and often there is very little that can be done if it isn't caught ridiculously early.

[QueenCat]

Has anyone come across research on kids with autism who were never vaccinated?

 

I haven't seen any but that would be interesting to see, especially if a large enough population was studied, giving more validity to results.

[QueenCat]

If you do nothing else, get him the meningitis vaccine. That disease can kill your child in 24 hours, often before you even know he is seriously ill. Teens are also more likely to be affected than younger kids, because they spend more time with their peers. It is nothing to mess around with. It is swift and it is deadly, and often there is very little that can be done if it isn't caught ridiculously early.

 

:iagree:100% This is why so many colleges require it of their students.

[Guest]

:iagree: That older children *should* be better able to handle it. More body weight for the same amount of adjuvants anyway. You can get your kids tested to see if they already have natural immunity (or whatever you call it, somebody help me out here). My kids were exposed to whooping cough(pertussis) but never got it.. it's possible they fought it off and now have those antibodies(immunity) so I would definitely test for it before getting them that shot.

 

Personally, I think a lot of vaccines (especially pertussis) need to be re-tested for efficacy. There are quite a few cases of pertussis here in WA state.. The 2 cases where I know the kids personally, both of them had been vaccinated for it! :001_huh:

 

It's such a personal choice. and a hard decision. Wishing you total peace with your final decision!

 

Pertussis is known to depend more on "herd immunity" than some other vaccines, because Pertussis (and also Chicken Pox) is so highly contagious and spread through the air. The vaccine does not offer 100% guaranteed protection; that is a known fact. The vaccine's efficacy has been proven. When there is 21 cases of Pertussis in, say, a given school district, this is not an indication that the vaccine is not effective - it is not 100% effective, but that is a known fact. If nobody was vaccinated, the rate of contraction would be very high; it speaks to efficacy that only a couple dozen kids contract it where 1,000 were exposed.

 

 

 

 

And yes, I broke the rule in my sig. :toetap05:

[shanvan]

Pertussis is known to depend more on "herd immunity" than some other vaccines, because Pertussis (and also Chicken Pox) is so highly contagious and spread through the air. The vaccine does not offer 100% guaranteed protection; that is a known fact. The vaccine's efficacy has been proven. When there is 21 cases of Pertussis in, say, a given school district, this is not an indication that the vaccine is not effective - it is not 100% effective, but that is a known fact. If nobody was vaccinated, the rate of contraction would be very high; it speaks to efficacy that only a couple dozen kids contract it where 1,000 were exposed.

 

 

 

 

And yes, I broke the rule in my sig. :toetap05:

 

Very good point. Thanks for the reminder.