Hake - Does anyone actually use the writing?

[Joani]

I'm sorry if this has been discussed several times, but when I searched Hake Grammar and Writing, every post I can find says that they're only using the grammar portion.

 

If anyone actually uses the writing part, could you tell me what you think?

 

If not, why don't you use it? Is there something I'm missing?

 

Thanks!

[redsquirrel]

Well, I ended up going with R&S grammar, but Hake came in a very, very close second. For both, I had no intention of using the writing portion. My reason is that I was using WWS1 and find it to be superior to the writing instruction in either R&S or Hake.

 

I think it is the rare program that can teach both grammar and composition well. I prefer to keep the decision for what I will use for each component separate.

[RegularMom]

Yes, we used the writing portion with Hake 5 last year, and we will use it again this year with Hake 6. This year, however, I will also be using Writing Strands. I just got my box from RR yesterday, and I've only skimmed over the toc's for both books, but I think they will complement each other nicely.

 

Hake 6's writing starts with writing sentences and progresses through paragraphs, transitions, various types of essays, a research paper, and ends with imaginative writing.

 

Writing Strands (level 4) seems to focus more on the stylistic process. Not just writing sentences and paragraphs, but writing beautiful sentences and paragraphs. Also: paying attention to tenses, good organization, narrative voice, etc.

 

Each program taken separately feels sparse to me. Put together, it feels much more complete. Neither of my girls are reluctant writers, btw. Having used just WS, my older dd has felt frustrated that she wasn't writing "papers" yet. When using just Hake, she would get a little frustrated over the dryness of just working on mechanics and having to pick from meaningless topics. So, I'm thinking a combination of the two might help stave off the frustrations.

 

If it gets to be too much, in conjunction with the writing assignments she gets in her history / science / literature, I'm thinking about ditching whatever the assigned topic for an essay is in Hake and having her use the Hake skills with whatever history / science / literature topic has come up at that time.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

ETA: I have posted about Hake's writing before. Here's a copy of a recent post I wrote regarding why I use Hake's writing:

 

I remember learning how to write essays in middle school and high school. It was never officially titled "The Five Paragraph Essay", but we were taught about introductions, topic sentences, body paragraphs, transitions, closing paragraphs, etc.

 

I think it's a valuable skill. One of the best quotes I ever heard about learning writing mechanics went something like this: "Learn all the rules, and then break them." So, we're learning all the rules now. I think that the "five paragraph essay" is a manageable length for younger writers. Mastering shorter essays now will make writing longer, more complicated papers later on in high school and college something that comes naturally.

 

We used Hake 5's writing portion this year, and it took my 5th grader through all of the concepts listed above. I don't recall ever hearing the title "Five Paragraph Essay" in the book though. But she worked through a series of exercises designed to teach, and reinforce through practice, all those same concepts. Then she wrote various assigned essays. I'd go over her drafts and make comments and sometimes those comments would be: "this essay would probably work better as a 3-paragraph piece".

 

We're at the end of the book now, and we've gotten to the portions where she is assigned more creative pieces, which she likes much better.

 

But I'm quite glad to have done a year of essay structure, thesis development, plus a few other varied assignments. Most recently, she had to write a chapter review.

 

This is not very glamorous writing, I agree. But I do think skills like these are important and useful down the line. Grammar isn't very glamorous either, but I wouldn't skip it for the world. Neither of my girls are reluctant writers, and they both write creatively in their spare time. Creative assignments aren't hard to come by. Mechanics and writing to convey ideas and information, though... I'm not opposed to that at all. Even if it is given the suspicious title of "Writing the Five Paragraph Essay".

 

We'll keep on doing these things in the future. And we'll make sure there's room to deviate from strict structures when an essay calls for it. Knowing when that will work can be an intuitive thing, but I also think it's something that can be taught and that is worth practicing. And we'll work in more time for creative pieces, using other curricula, sure.

 

For us, the idea is: write. And write some more. But think about what you're writing. And why. And yes, sometimes the reason why is: because that's what the assignment calls for. Chances are, at some point in their future academic careers, and professional careers, this will be required of them.

Edited July 11, 2012 by RegularMom

[Auburn Fan]

We used the Hake Grammar for 5th grade and honestly, we just used the grammar part mainly. My daughter took a virtual class offered by a woman close to us and she used Excellence In Writing. Of course, we started out the year doing the Hake writing, but it just didn't get finished. My reason for switching to Writing with Skill is due to what I've learned on this forum. Aside from that, I didn't know it existed. I've been used to using Writing with Ease and First Language Lessons, and we've liked those. However, until just recently, I didn't think Peace Hill Press had Language Arts for the middle school kids. That's why we had switched my older daughter to Hake.

 

Anyhow, I think you responded to my question regarding writing/grammar for the logic stage. So for my kids, I will still use the Hake grammar, but will use WWS I and WWE 4 for the writing, I think. But after getting all my curricula together, and looking through it, it may just be that we do both writing sections from each of those. We'll see how it goes. I certainly don't want to overdo the writing and have reluctant writers due to the heavy load.

[Joani]

Thanks so much for the responses!

 

It's nice to know that at least one person uses the writing portion. :tongue_smilie:

 

I actually love WWS and plan to use that eventually, but the kid I'm looking to use Hake with will only be in 4th grade this year. My plan right now is to use Hake 5 this year, then decide next year if he's ready for WWS in 5th. He's a good writer and a major perfectionist, so I think Hake will be a better fit that WWE.

 

I wasn't a fan of Writing Strands Level 2, but I'll have a look at levels 3 and 4. I'm also considering Killgallon Story Grammar for Elementary.

 

Thanks again and any more experiences/suggestions are welcome!:)

[Colleen in SEVA]

For us, the idea is: write. And write some more. But think about what you're writing. And why. And yes, sometimes the reason why is: because that's what the assignment calls for. Chances are, at some point in their future academic careers, and professional careers, this will be required of them.[/i]

 

Yes, this summarizes why I am having DS1 do the writing portion of Hake 6. Most of the early assignments are very short (combine 2 sentences into 1 better sentence, etc.). The middle of the year they are writing one PART of an essay (just the introductory paragraph, or just the conclusion), and by the end of the year they write full 5 paragraph essays. They are not exciting or even very useful writing topics, but there aren't a lot of assignments and it will give him a chance to practice the things he is learning in his other writing instruction. If you follow the given schedule and use the grammar, the tests, AND the writing, it works out to 4 lessons per week for 36 weeks.

 

Hake would not be a good writing program on its own, IMO. However -- my DS is also doing other writing things this year (a science fiction writing class, the writing portion of Lightning Lit, IEW SICCB, and next summer Essay Voyage -- this is a very writing-heavy year for him!).

 

My opinion (shared by many) is that WWS is FAR superior to the writing portion of Hake. My DS will do WWS next year, but he needs more physical writing practice before he jumps into it (tried WWS his past semester, he wasn't ready yet).

[Joani]

Yes, this summarizes why I am having DS1 do the writing portion of Hake 6. Most of the early assignments are very short (combine 2 sentences into 1 better sentence, etc.). The middle of the year they are writing one PART of an essay (just the introductory paragraph, or just the conclusion), and by the end of the year they write full 5 paragraph essays. They are not exciting or even very useful writing topics, but there aren't a lot of assignments and it will give him a chance to practice the things he is learning in his other writing instruction. If you follow the given schedule and use the grammar, the tests, AND the writing, it works out to 4 lessons per week for 36 weeks.

 

Hake would not be a good writing program on its own, IMO. However -- my DS is also doing other writing things this year (a science fiction writing class, the writing portion of Lightning Lit, IEW SICCB, and next summer Essay Voyage -- this is a very writing-heavy year for him!).

 

My opinion (shared by many) is that WWS is FAR superior to the writing portion of Hake. My DS will do WWS next year, but he needs more physical writing practice before he jumps into it (tried WWS his past semester, he wasn't ready yet).

Thanks so much. :) I really am looking forward to using WWS with him - my 7th and 8th graders will be using it this year. Hopefully a year or two of Hake (and something else, just not sure what yet) will prepare him well for it.

[redsquirrel]

Well, if he is a 4th grader then WWS wouldn't be for him anyway. Have you considered adding WWE4? Or working through 3 and then 4 in 5th grade?

[Joani]

Well, if he is a 4th grader then WWS wouldn't be for him anyway. Have you considered adding WWE4? Or working through 3 and then 4 in 5th grade?

I really love WWE for my younger son, but I don't think it's a good fit here. Even the placement test and a few lessons from WWE 2 had him majorly stressed out about the dictation. I think the studied dictation in Hake will be better for him. He did better with narration though, so we'll be working on that in science and history.

[Mama2two]

bumping up for some more thoughts on the writing component

We are currently using CAP and considering a switch to Hake for grammar next year

 

Wonder if CAP writing and both Hake Writing and grammar would be too much? 

[Haiku]

We used the writing. Dd said she already knew what it was teaching, but I thought it was good in terms of clear, explicit instruction in the steps to good writing.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

We don't use Hake writing because we use WWS and MCT . If I wasn't using those, Hake would be the next in line to try.

In your situation, I might try Hake until it's time for WWS.

[Halcyon]

We finished WWS1 but i feel DS needs some more foundational work before we move to WWS2. So we're going to use Hake 6 Writing (and maybe the grammar) for a few months before we begin WWS2. I'll post back as to what we think!

[AK_Mom4]

We used Hake 6 - both the grammar and writing - in the past and used Hake 8 (both) this year.  Turned out that DD12 knew all the grammar stuff, but needed a refresher on the basic writing techniques.  She had "learned" it in the past, but Hake was a basic no-nonsense review of introductory sentences, paragraphs, ideas and brain-storming.  Our goal was to get her writing solid before we moved into some more complex topics and Hake writing is excellent for that.