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OK, what if a dc is firmly directed toward the biological/ecological sciences?


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Thinking ahead to a science progression that makes sense for a dd who seems likely to end up on an ecology/environmental science type track:

 

I'm thinking:

9th - Physical Science

10th - Chemistry

11th - Biology (AP?)

12th - AP Environmental Science or Ecology/Behavior/Genetics

 

Sounds good to me, but it is a progression that doesn't include an official "physics" course. This is because a) I don't think she'll have enough math by 9th grade and b) I like the physics-chem-bio track better for philosophical reasons, and c) I'd rather she take an advanced science in her interest area rather than Physics in 12th grade (when she will have had plenty of math).

 

I'm also thinking that Statistics will be more useful as a 4th Math than Calculus.

 

Thoughts or suggestions? Thank you!

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This was going to be my suggestion as well. It might be the only chance to encounter physics as a subject of study.

 

No to the bolded- as a biology major, the student will most likely be required to take two semesters physics in college (often algebra/trig based, not sure if some universities require calc based). I teach a class like this for biology majors, and many of them struggle with the material, so I would highly recommend some physics exposure in high school.

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If your guy is like mine, he won't need Physics, but like regentrude posted, it will depends upon where they go to college, so I'd be careful burning bridges.

 

I fully expect my youngest to head to an environmental type of college akin to Unity or Warren Wilson, but we haven't figured out exactly where yet.

 

For preparation, he did Physical Science in 8th grade, then Bio in 9th, Chem in 10th, will be doing Advanced Bio (cc course), Animal & Plant Science, and Wildlife & Natural Resources in 11th grade, then either Advanced Chem or possibly Physics (or both) in 12th grade. He will have 6 - 7 science credits when he graduates - not just 4. I think it's fairly important for students going into a science field to have more than 4 sciences, but that's just my thoughts. This son is in ps, so I can't help with curricula recommendations for his extra courses. In his case, teachers have made the extra non-traditional courses he'll be taking (they are regular classes, but created by the teachers - not from "a" book).

 

Our school also offers Environmental Bio, but unfortunately, only at a Level 1 (8th grade level material, but high school credit). I've often asked for them to offer it at a true high school or college prep level, but so far, they've denied the request. (The teacher would like to offer it at a higher level, so I've no idea why the resistance.)

 

In any event, perhaps you could consider creating classes like any of the above - perhaps utilizing any sources from your community (Master Gardener or something like that).

 

Remember that minimum requirements at colleges are seldom "average" for applicants. Those who enjoy doing something to the point of majoring will often have far more than the minimum.

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What about doing Conceptual Physics in 9th grade rather than Physical Science? In Texas, Physical Science is no longer considered a high school credit.

 

I'm a little worried about the math - even in conceptual physics. I'm doing the Udacity physics course online right now, and even though it is touted as needing algebra only, it seems like having geometry/trig under your belt first would be much better. I'm thinking she will do Algebra in 8th, Algebra 2 in 9th, and Geometry in 10th. So I wasn't sure if the math in Conceptual Physics would be too much for a 9th grader on that math track.

 

I also like the idea of a more "integrated" course which is what Physical Science seems like - integrating basic physics & chem, with earth science & astronomy included. This seems more engaging to me, but I admit I wear my bias front and center - Physics is the least engaging science *for me* and I don't want to assume/create that for dd.

 

I love the idea of creating higher level courses in high school for the 4th+ science credits. I'm an ecologist so would feel very qualified to put something like that together. I was just thinking that AP Enviro Science was a must for someone with these goals, but wasn't even considering that, of course, she could do more than 4 science credits . . . so thanks for the suggestions.

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In the very least, I would do a college prep Physical Science/ICP. BJU or PH both have Physical Science that is really Integrated Chemistry and Physics and really just focuses on those two subjects, skipping the earth science and astronomy.

 

My experience as a Biology major was that I had to have one semester of college Physics. I didn't have it in high school and it was tough for me. My dd who wants to do something in the biological sciences will absolutely have Physics in high school. She is doing ICP next year in 8th. and she's going to do 2 sciences per year at least one year.

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In the very least, I would do a college prep Physical Science/ICP. BJU or PH both have Physical Science that is really Integrated Chemistry and Physics and really just focuses on those two subjects, skipping the earth science and astronomy.

 

My experience as a Biology major was that I had to have one semester of college Physics. I didn't have it in high school and it was tough for me. My dd who wants to do something in the biological sciences will absolutely have Physics in high school. She is doing ICP next year in 8th. and she's going to do 2 sciences per year at least one year.

 

ICP = Integrated Conceptual Physics? I'm guessing?

 

I suppose the thing to do is cover earth science & astronomy in 7th or 8th grade. We are doing BFSU, with our own multiple rabbit trails, which does cover a lot of that.

 

Any thoughts on the amount of math needed (really) to handle Conceptual Physics? I know I've read discussions of this on other threads but can't recall if there is a consensus?

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It is best to have completed Algebra I before starting Conceptual Physics, but I'm sure that there are kids who have done them concurrently.

 

AP Physics B has Algebra II as a prerequisite, but my dd and my other student were both taking Algebra II concurrently with it and did fine. Both were strong math students though.

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It is best to have completed Algebra I before starting Conceptual Physics, but I'm sure that there are kids who have done them concurrently.

 

AP Physics B has Algebra II as a prerequisite, but my dd and my other student were both taking Algebra II concurrently with it and did fine. Both were strong math students though.

 

 

Ok, that works then - she should complete Algebra 1 in 8th and be doing Algebra II in 9th. I was just surprised at how much geometry/trig was used in Intro Physics, and wondered if those were necessary.

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As regards your Statistics versus Calculus question ....

 

If your child is considering majoring in a science in college, she will almost certainly be required to take Calculus at that time. If she is ready to take Calculus in high school, she might appreciate some familiarity with the subject before college.

 

Regards,

Kareni

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Ok, that works then - she should complete Algebra 1 in 8th and be doing Algebra II in 9th. I was just surprised at how much geometry/trig was used in Intro Physics, and wondered if those were necessary.

 

All that is needed is the right triangle, Pythagoras, and sohcahtoa - stuff the student can learn in a single afternoon. No actual trigonometry course is necessary.

Otherwise, algebra 1 is sufficient if the student has actually mastered the material - linear equations, systems of linear equations, and quadratic equations. For one topic in electricity/magnetism, exponentials and logarithms are needed.

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I majored in Ecology & Environmental Bio (BS). I took (and was required to take) a 3 semester Physics sequence in college that was the engineering/calculus based physics, as well as 2 years of chem (inorganic and organic), in addition to the masses of bio.

 

I would omit the Physical Science in 9th grade, either by moving it to 8th grade or skipping it.

 

I would def. have a full year of each Chem, Phys, and Bio in highschool. If she loves biology, then take a high school level bio first, then AP later.

 

Get her through Alg. by 8th grade so you have more choices for high school.

 

I'd lean towards:

 

Chem - 9th gr

Bio - 10th gr

Phys - 11th gr

AP Bio - 12th gr

 

If time permits, I'd double up on sciences for 11th and/or 12th grade by adding AP Chem and/or AP Env. Sci and/or Geology/Earth Science. I know that Earth Science is always pushed off the science major lists, but I think it is a shame. I managed to get 5 credits of science (2 bio, 2 phys, 1 chem) in high school, plus a bio major, plus a bio grad degree . . . and the only earth science class I ever took was in grad school -- a stream geomorphology class that was awesome. I regret that I never had any earth science to speak of, and I defintitely plan to do some with my kids, most likely as part of a double science year with physics.

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I majored in Ecology & Environmental Bio (BS). I took (and was required to take) a 3 semester Physics sequence in college that was the engineering/calculus based physics, as well as 2 years of chem (inorganic and organic), in addition to the masses of bio.

 

I would omit the Physical Science in 9th grade, either by moving it to 8th grade or skipping it.

 

I would def. have a full year of each Chem, Phys, and Bio in highschool. If she loves biology, then take a high school level bio first, then AP later.

 

Get her through Alg. by 8th grade so you have more choices for high school.

 

I'd lean towards:

 

Chem - 9th gr

Bio - 10th gr

Phys - 11th gr

AP Bio - 12th gr

 

If time permits, I'd double up on sciences for 11th and/or 12th grade by adding AP Chem and/or AP Env. Sci and/or Geology/Earth Science. I know that Earth Science is always pushed off the science major lists, but I think it is a shame. I managed to get 5 credits of science (2 bio, 2 phys, 1 chem) in high school, plus a bio major, plus a bio grad degree . . . and the only earth science class I ever took was in grad school -- a stream geomorphology class that was awesome. I regret that I never had any earth science to speak of, and I defintitely plan to do some with my kids, most likely as part of a double science year with physics.

 

Thanks for these suggestions! I agree that geology/earth science is important for an ecologist, and was trying to figure out how to fit that in - I guess that is why I was thinking of Physical Science, b/c it is included. But I'm hearing you that Physics would be a bigger part of her college studies than I had anticipated, so having physics in hs is important.

 

Algebra in 8th should be no problem. We're on a solid math track now to do PreAlgebra in 7th and Algebra in 8th.

 

I'm kind of torn about the sequence - physics first vs bio first. I thought that by doing Bio later, she could do AP Bio in 11th and then have space for AP Enviro Science in 12th. But with Physics earlier, there is the question of math readiness. Hmm.

 

Well, I have lots of time to think about it! :D Part of why I'm thinking about it now is trying to figure out what to do for 7th & 8th. BFSU is the default, but it won't take all the way to 8th grade to finish that, by a long shot. I know she can do meaningful science learning during jh, as long as it isn't math-heavy; math will be the focus in jh so she will be ready for a solid math/science hs sequence. But that might be a good time for physical science, earth science, etc.

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ICP = Integrated Conceptual Physics? I'm guessing?

QUOTE]

 

I thought ICP means Integrated Chemistry and Physics?

 

Thank you - that was why I had a question mark! :D I really like the idea of an integrated class, b/c I see that dd learns much better this way - she is a connection-maker, not a subdivider. But how would this work? If you did integrated chemistry and physics, would you still need a separate chemistry, and a separate physics???? That wouldn't help much as far as carving out additional time in the schedule for advanced biology . . . Or do you cover both, but less deeply? Is it considered a credit-worthy hs science? I will do some research on this, but if anyone can direct me, TIA.

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I majored in Ecology & Environmental Bio (BS). I took (and was required to take) a 3 semester Physics sequence in college that was the engineering/calculus based physics, as well as 2 years of chem (inorganic and organic), in addition to the masses of bio.

 

I would omit the Physical Science in 9th grade, either by moving it to 8th grade or skipping it.

 

I would def. have a full year of each Chem, Phys, and Bio in highschool. If she loves biology, then take a high school level bio first, then AP later.

 

Get her through Alg. by 8th grade so you have more choices for high school.

 

I'd lean towards:

 

Chem - 9th gr

Bio - 10th gr

Phys - 11th gr

AP Bio - 12th gr

 

If time permits, I'd double up on sciences for 11th and/or 12th grade by adding AP Chem and/or AP Env. Sci and/or Geology/Earth Science. I know that Earth Science is always pushed off the science major lists, but I think it is a shame. I managed to get 5 credits of science (2 bio, 2 phys, 1 chem) in high school, plus a bio major, plus a bio grad degree . . . and the only earth science class I ever took was in grad school -- a stream geomorphology class that was awesome. I regret that I never had any earth science to speak of, and I defintitely plan to do some with my kids, most likely as part of a double science year with physics.

 

I agree completely, and I think it's particularly important to consider the order of biology and chemistry. In Olden Days, biology was usually done before chemistry because biology was much less rigorous mathematically. But that was with old-style biology curricula, which focused on dissections and organisms. Modern biology curricula tend to take a "bottom-up" approach, starting with the chemistry of life, life processes, cell structures and division, and so on. That means if you're using such a curricula it's probably better to do chemistry first.

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I agree completely, and I think it's particularly important to consider the order of biology and chemistry. In Olden Days, biology was usually done before chemistry because biology was much less rigorous mathematically. But that was with old-style biology curricula, which focused on dissections and organisms. Modern biology curricula tend to take a "bottom-up" approach, starting with the chemistry of life, life processes, cell structures and division, and so on. That means if you're using such a curricula it's probably better to do chemistry first.

 

I agree completely; chemistry before biology. But of the following two sequences, which do you think is better?

 

9th: Chemistry

10th Biology

11th: Physics

12th AP Biology (and AP Environmental Science?)

 

vs.

 

9th: Conceptual Physics

10th: Chemistry

11th: AP Biology

12th: AP Environmental Science (and Geology/Earth Science)

 

This would be for someone shooting for an Ecology/Environmental Science (BS) undergraduate program.

 

Feel free to suggest something entirely different, too!

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I majored in Ecology & Environmental Bio (BS). I took (and was required to take) a 3 semester Physics sequence in college that was the engineering/calculus based physics, as well as 2 years of chem (inorganic and organic), in addition to the masses of bio.

 

I would omit the Physical Science in 9th grade, either by moving it to 8th grade or skipping it.

 

I would def. have a full year of each Chem, Phys, and Bio in highschool. If she loves biology, then take a high school level bio first, then AP later.

 

Get her through Alg. by 8th grade so you have more choices for high school.

 

I'd lean towards:

 

Chem - 9th gr

Bio - 10th gr

Phys - 11th gr

AP Bio - 12th gr

 

If time permits, I'd double up on sciences for 11th and/or 12th grade by adding AP Chem and/or AP Env. Sci and/or Geology/Earth Science. I know that Earth Science is always pushed off the science major lists, but I think it is a shame. I managed to get 5 credits of science (2 bio, 2 phys, 1 chem) in high school, plus a bio major, plus a bio grad degree . . . and the only earth science class I ever took was in grad school -- a stream geomorphology class that was awesome. I regret that I never had any earth science to speak of, and I

defintitely plan to do some with my kids, most likely as part of a double science year with physics.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

About the physics dilemma... like you, I believe that physics/chem/bio makes more sense than bio/chem/physics. However, I also believe that it's better to do physics after chem and bio than to not do it at all. Which is why I like the science sequence proposed above. If your dd wants to be a competitive STEM field applicant, I would definitely recommend completing Calculus, as well as at least 4 sciences (the Big 3 + an advanced or specialty in her area of interest), if not more.

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I agree completely; chemistry before biology. But of the following two sequences, which do you think is better?

 

9th: Chemistry

10th Biology

11th: Physics

12th AP Biology (and AP Environmental Science?)

 

vs.

 

9th: Conceptual Physics

10th: Chemistry

11th: AP Biology

12th: AP Environmental Science (and Geology/Earth Science)

 

This would be for someone shooting for an Ecology/Environmental Science (BS) undergraduate program.

 

Feel free to suggest something entirely different, too!

I prefer the first sequence (see my earlier post above re: physics). I would alter it by having your dd double up in science one year, thus allowing her to complete 2+ advanced/AP/specialty sciences.

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Wait, remind me why it's better to do Chem-Bio-Physics rather than Physics-Chem-Bio? So they have more math before they get to Physics?

 

Because I was thinking that if she did Physics-Chem-Bio then she could perhaps to AP Bio in 11th grade, then AP Enviro Science in 12th. That way she would have at least one AP before applying to college . . . I realize that I've kind of gone around in a big circle here, but you guys have convinced me that Physics is doable & preferable to Physical Science so . . .

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Wait, remind me why it's better to do Chem-Bio-Physics rather than Physics-Chem-Bio? So they have more math before they get to Physics?

 

Good question. Chem-bio-physics does not make a lot of sense to me, because chemistry needs solid algebra 1 skills (up to logarithms and exponentials) as well, and with the math skills needed for chemistry one can do a very decent algebra based physics course.

 

Pushing physics into 11th grade would make sense for a very strong math student who by that time would already have enough calculus for a calculus based physics course, but I would think this case to be rather rare.

 

I can see the sense in starting with bio for a student who does not yet have the math (which is why it is standard in ps).

So, yes, what is the rationale for starting with chemistry?

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No to the bolded- as a biology major, the student will most likely be required to take two semesters physics in college (often algebra/trig based, not sure if some universities require calc based). I teach a class like this for biology majors, and many of them struggle with the material, so I would highly recommend some physics exposure in high school.

 

Chiming in late to second regentrude's advice. During my son's advisement session earlier this week, I happened to be sitting near the table for transferring chemistry majors; two semesters of physics are required for all majors and based on the textbook we saw at the bookstore it's likely calc based physics.

 

Good luck with working out a good sequence. Our experience with science was that math was THE limiting factor in deciding on the best sequence.

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Good question. Chem-bio-physics does not make a lot of sense to me, because chemistry needs solid algebra 1 skills (up to logarithms and exponentials) as well, and with the math skills needed for chemistry one can do a very decent algebra based physics course.

:iagree:

As other pp's have already stated, your dd's math level more than likely will determine her science sequence.

 

If your dd is strong in math, you may want to start off the high school science sequence with AP Physics B since it only requires the completion of Alg. I and very basic trig (which can be easily learned in 20 minutes.)

 

Many kids at our public school take Physics B (although they take it as seniors) with no prior background in physics. My son also had no prior exposure to physics and was very successful in the course.

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I'd do conceptual physical science in 8th (I'm assuming that this is for the 9yo, and you have time to change things around in middle school) which will give her the needed physics and chemistry for biology in 9th. Then chemistry and physics in 10th and 11th, which will give her 12th for an elective or AP science.

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I agree completely; chemistry before biology. But of the following two sequences, which do you think is better?

 

9th: Chemistry

10th Biology

11th: Physics

12th AP Biology (and AP Environmental Science?)

 

vs.

 

9th: Conceptual Physics

10th: Chemistry

11th: AP Biology

12th: AP Environmental Science (and Geology/Earth Science)

 

This would be for someone shooting for an Ecology/Environmental Science (BS) undergraduate program.

 

Feel free to suggest something entirely different, too!

 

I prefer the first sequence b/c I don't think a future science major should be taking a Conceptual Physics (assuming that this means not an algebra-based physics) class in high school. I think non-algebra based physics should be reserved for kids who are either taking it very early and will take a proper physics class later on in high school or who are so mathematically limited that it is the only feasible way to get them through the core sciences in high school. In order to be prepared to handle calculus based physics in college, they really need, at minimum, a full algebra-based course in high school, IMHO.

 

I'd even considering adding an earth science / geology course (even just a semester) to the 11th grade list. Do that, and what a great sequence she'll have! Those double ups aren't NECESSARY, but they would presumably be interesting (since that is the kid's area of interest) and might help establish passion/etc in the college admissions process.

 

For those scheduling reasons, I think that science-destined kids are definitely best served by getting Algebra done by 8th grade or earlier. My kids (and I) happen to be very mathy and so we have lots of options. Ds13 did algebra-based chem (Spectrum) last year during 7th grade (having finished Alg in 6th), and he will be taking high school level bio (Miller Levine along with IGtHBE*) this year in 8th. That degree of acceleration isn't necessary, but it does help leave open lots of cool options if it is feasible. I haven't seen any middle school lab-based sciences that are so appealing that I think they are preferable to solid high school level science if the kid has the math ability in hand.

 

HTH

 

* I am officially declaring a new acronym. IGtHBE = Illustrated Guide to Home Biology Experiments -- authored by none other than theHomeScientist who posted above. :) I'm very excited about this resource! :D

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I prefer the first sequence b/c I don't think a future science major should be taking a Conceptual Physics (assuming that this means not an algebra-based physics) class in high school. I think non-algebra based physics should be reserved for kids who are either taking it very early and will take a proper physics class later on in high school or who are so mathematically limited that it is the only feasible way to get them through the core sciences in high school. In order to be prepared to handle calculus based physics in college, they really need, at minimum, a full algebra-based course in high school, IMHO.

 

I'd even considering adding an earth science / geology course (even just a semester) to the 11th grade list. Do that, and what a great sequence she'll have! Those double ups aren't NECESSARY, but they would presumably be interesting (since that is the kid's area of interest) and might help establish passion/etc in the college admissions process.

 

For those scheduling reasons, I think that science-destined kids are definitely best served by getting Algebra done by 8th grade or earlier. My kids (and I) happen to be very mathy and so we have lots of options. Ds13 did algebra-based chem (Spectrum) last year during 7th grade (having finished Alg in 6th), and he will be taking high school level bio (Miller Levine along with IGtHBE*) this year in 8th. That degree of acceleration isn't necessary, but it does help leave open lots of cool options if it is feasible. I haven't seen any middle school lab-based sciences that are so appealing that I think they are preferable to solid high school level science if the kid has the math ability in hand.

 

I was thinking that Conceptual Physics was algebra-based, as distinct from a calculus based physics. I'll have to look into that further, I know this has been discussed recently. I get your point, though - no reason to do anything less than an algebra-based physics in HS.

 

I love the idea of at least a semester of earth science/geology doubled up in the sequence somewhere. I think it's really important for an ecologist (yep, more than physics - but I get why that needs to happen!). Got any favorite texts/resources for hs level earth science/geology?

 

Ok, off to research the conceputal physics thing. :auto:

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I was thinking that Conceptual Physics was algebra-based, as distinct from a calculus based physics.

 

No, conceptual physics tries to get by with minimal math. There are a few formulas, but the basic idea is to focus on concepts and not on a mathematical description. A truly algebra based physics course will have some trigonometry and will require solving quadratics and systems of linear equations - conceptual physics only has a few linear equations that might have to rearranged for a variable, and it does not teach rigorous problem solving.

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I prefer the first sequence b/c I don't think a future science major should be taking a Conceptual Physics (assuming that this means not an algebra-based physics) class in high school. I think non-algebra based physics should be reserved for kids who are either taking it very early and will take a proper physics class later on in high school or who are so mathematically limited that it is the only feasible way to get them through the core sciences in high school. In order to be prepared to handle calculus based physics in college, they really need, at minimum, a full algebra-based course in high school, IMHO.

 

 

:iagree:

 

And the sad thing is that many schools are only offering conceptual physics now.

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Ok, thanks, I read a past thread too and now understand the distinction between Conceptual & algebra-based physics.

 

I saw the following recommended texts for a high school introductory algebra-based physics class: is this accurate? Are there others I should consider?

College Physics: A Strategic Approach - Knight Jones & Field

Holt Physics - Serway & Faughn

Giancoli - which? and there seemed to be some debate as to whether this is algebra 1 based or higher level?

 

Can anyone enlighten by about CPO science? They have a bunch of texts listed as middle school, then a plethora of different physics texts, and I can't tell which is at what level (besides those listed as physical science). Are these worth looking into?

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College Physics: A Strategic Approach - Knight Jones & Field

 

I like this text and use it for my algebra based physics class. It is written for life science majors and has many applications to biology, quite readable. My DD did very well with it in 9th grade.

 

Giancoli - which? and there seemed to be some debate as to whether this is algebra 1 based or higher level?

 

No debate - there are two texts by Giancoli.

Physics: principles with applications is the algebra based one.

Physics for scientists and Engineers is calculus based.

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This must really depend on where you live. Here biology is still the default 9th grade science.

 

I was looking at the requirements for applying to the county's science & math magnet for entry as a sophomore. They have a non-waivable requirement that the student have already completed biology, either as a 9th grader or during summer school before entering sophomore year.

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Heck, I'm having a hard time finding a high school around here who will even put 9th graders in Biology, let alone Chemistry or Physics. They all have Physical Science as the 9th grade science, which IMHO, is way behind for potential STEM majors.

:iagree: My public school just changed their science requirements for the upcoming school year. They used to require all incoming freshman to take physical science. That sequence does put STEM majors at a huge disadvantage.

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I like this text and use it for my algebra based physics class. It is written for life science majors and has many applications to biology, quite readable. My DD did very well with it in 9th grade.

 

 

 

No debate - there are two texts by Giancoli.

Physics: principles with applications is the algebra based one.

Physics for scientists and Engineers is calculus based.

 

Ok, thanks. The Knight book sounds great for us.

 

Thank you all so much for answering my questions and sharing your opinions and experience! I know it might seem goofy that I'm thinking this hard about high school science at this stage, but I've got 5th and 6th grade all figured out :lol:. Seriously, I'm just trying to make sure I set her up on a path that will keep as many doors open as possible at this point, and see the math & science sequence as the most critical to "work backwards" from where we want to end up, so this has all been very helpful.

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Physics: principles with applications is the algebra based one.

Physics for scientists and Engineers is calculus based.

 

You should know that Physics: Principles with Applications is based on Algebra II, not Algebra I. If you haven't already finished Algebra II, you should at least be taking it concurrently with this course.

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:iagree: My public school just changed their science requirements for the upcoming school year. They used to require all incoming freshman to take physical science. That sequence does put STEM majors at a huge disadvantage.

 

Our high school just changed two years ago to say that ALL 9th grade students had to take Physical Science instead of Bio. This is because the students were doing dismally on the state science test...

 

Our science sequence in high school goes:

 

Physical Science (9th)

Bio (10th)

Chem (11th)

and then a science of the student's choice and there are several choices.

 

All need 4 credits. Any of the classes above can be taken as Level 1 (8th grade material, but high school credit) or Level 2 (basic college prep). It's not until Chem that we get to Level 3 as an option (4 year college prep). My guy just took that one last year... the name sounds good. He didn't get much of the course done (the class didn't). It's par for the course.

 

It definitely hurts future STEM majors. My guy got to skip Physical Science since we did it in 8th grade when he was still homeschooling. He had no problem doing Bio/Chem in 9th/10th and was one of 9% in our state - far less in our school - who scored Advanced on the our Bio Keystone test (but not due to our school course - he's into Bio and has been since he could walk).

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Our high school just changed two years ago to say that ALL 9th grade students had to take Physical Science instead of Bio. This is because the students were doing dismally on the state science test...

Have the test scores increased since then? That solution does not seem to be in the kids' best interest, but I don't think what is best for the kids is given much consideration these days. Every decision seems to revolve around the tests.

 

Over the next two years, our school system is gradually moving up the back to school date. Next year, the kids will go back around Aug 12th. The administration has never come out and said it, but most realize that this move was made in order to have more weeks to prep for the state tests that are held in April!

 

Our summer weather usually doesn't begin until middle of June. August is the best weather of the entire year, and the kids will be shut up in school for more than 1/2 of it.

 

It definitely hurts future STEM majors. My guy got to skip Physical Science since we did it in 8th grade when he was still homeschooling. He had no problem doing Bio/Chem in 9th/10th and was one of 9% in our state - far less in our school - who scored Advanced on the our Bio Keystone test (but not due to our school course - he's into Bio and has been since he could walk).

 

Good for your son!

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Have the test scores increased since then? That solution does not seem to be in the kids' best interest, but I don't think what is best for the kids is given much consideration these days. Every decision seems to revolve around the tests.

 

 

It's too early to tell. The first class that would have taken the tests are this year's juniors - and budget cuts appear to be cutting those tests (but no one knows for sure yet and things are continually changing).

 

I haven't seen much difference. The problem is student apathy and that isn't going to change by adding a 9th grade course to help with an 11th grade test. Few remember anything they learn from one year to the next. Our school does practice tests for 9th/10th graders and you should have heard the complaints - "We're not taking that class right now, how are we supposed to do well?" The "class" is one they'd had the previous year. Of course we shouldn't expect them to remember basic concepts from it a year later... :glare:

 

Our educational system is about memorizing, testing, forgetting... I'd prefer learning, but that would take effort and the kids do NOT want to put forth effort.

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  • 3 weeks later...
I like this text and use it for my algebra based physics class. It is written for life science majors and has many applications to biology, quite readable. My DD did very well with it in 9th grade.

 

What materials did you use in conjunction with this text? I see that there are workbooks. What about TMs? Did you use an older edition. The price on Amazon is $$$ for the most recent. Yikes.

 

No debate - there are two texts by Giancoli.

Physics: principles with applications is the algebra based one.

Physics for scientists and Engineers is calculus based.

 

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