JumpyTheFrog Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) In 2010 we left our legalistic, patriarchal, family integrated church. We drifted for a while, then thought we found a church. After attending a few weeks, one of the pastors used his sermon to mock all sorts of un-believers or Christians with different beliefs. So we left and then found a house church last fall that treats women as equals. It was so nice to be allowed to speak and not have to keep silent for everything but singing. Anyway, one of the blogs I visit has been running a series of posts about pedophilia and church coverups. The house chuch has several ex-cons, so tonight I decided to look one up. He's a convicted sex offender. The victim was 13 and he's in his 40s. He served 6 months and was let out two years ago. Last year, he married a church member with a 13 year old autistic son. She is the sister of the host, who is a cop. They both must know about the crime, based on stuff she's said in the past about how angry her family was when she married him and relatives not visiting if he's home. I was going to invite this family over for dinner, but never got around to it. Thank God! Literally! He may sound repentent, but two years out of jail isn't long enough to know, especially considering how often these molesters repeat the crime. Now we need a new church, again. It's discouraging because I live in a state where few of the churches treat women as equals. I won't be treated as inferior again. I am thankful that we found out before there was ever a chance for this man to be alone with my kids. Please pray we find a church we both like. Edited July 5, 2012 by HoppyTheToad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 :grouphug: I am sorry. That is a deep wound. :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaSheep Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaceful Isle Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 How disappointing. :( I'm so sorry! I will pray you find another church family soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Before you go please make sure the minister and leadership know that he has a past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 :( So sorry :( That's just a good reminder! Glad you found out :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) Oh, ugh. I'm so sorry but I'm glad you found out. Church searching can be so challenging, but good in the end, too. If you're looking for a church that values women, I suggest looking at Orthodoxy if a liturgical church might be in the realm of possibility for you. I never really thought about this before we became Orthodox, but now that we are, I've see that it exists in this ancient faith. It's all-encompassing and organic in the way its practiced. It's pretty cool. Edited July 5, 2012 by milovaný Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschickie Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Have you looked at a United Methodist Church yet? Women are definitely treated as equals there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 We do have a UMC nearby. Maybe we'll go visit. We visited a different one early in our originial church search (different town) but it felt dead. Almost everyone was over 60 and it felt like it was just a social club. Hopefully this one will be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 What else are you looking for besides being equal? Are you looking to change or join a denomination? If you tell us more of you beliefs we may be able to help you find a fit. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 -Women being allowed to do everything in the church men are, including being pastors. (This eliminates most of the churches near us.) -None of this "wives-only submission" stuff. Husbands and wives deciding things together. -No Calvinism -The service not just being a long sermon, but giving everyone a time to speak and encourage others, just as Paul wrote about everyone coming with a song, hymn, a teaching, etc. Few churches do this, so I realize we may have to settle for Sunday School for this part. -A church that is balanced and neither a basically non-religious social club fighting to end injustice and poverty without Jesus, nor a place focused so much on how sinful everyone is that they have no compassion and equate people struggling with homosexuality to axe murderers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 May God bless your search. So sorry this happened again... it's tough doing a church search (especially with kids). :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tntgoodwin Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 http://www.fgcquaker.org/explore Perhaps there is a Society of Friends group near you? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Society_of_Friends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 If you're looking for a church that values women, I suggest looking at Orthodoxy if a liturgical church might be in the realm of possibility for you. I never really thought about this before we became Orthodox, but now that we are, I've see that it exists in this ancient faith. It's all-encompassing and organic in the way its practiced. It's pretty cool. Or Catholic. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 -Women being allowed to do everything in the church men are, including being pastors. (This eliminates most of the churches near us.) -None of this "wives-only submission" stuff. Husbands and wives deciding things together. -No Calvinism -The service not just being a long sermon, but giving everyone a time to speak and encourage others, just as Paul wrote about everyone coming with a song, hymn, a teaching, etc. Few churches do this, so I realize we may have to settle for Sunday School for this part. -A church that is balanced and neither a basically non-religious social club fighting to end injustice and poverty without Jesus, nor a place focused so much on how sinful everyone is that they have no compassion and equate people struggling with homosexuality to axe murderers. I also thought you might like some Quaker groups reading your post. You might also try a Lutheran congregation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 -Women being allowed to do everything in the church men are, including being pastors. (This eliminates most of the churches near us.) -None of this "wives-only submission" stuff. Husbands and wives deciding things together. -No Calvinism -The service not just being a long sermon, but giving everyone a time to speak and encourage others, just as Paul wrote about everyone coming with a song, hymn, a teaching, etc. Few churches do this, so I realize we may have to settle for Sunday School for this part. -A church that is balanced and neither a basically non-religious social club fighting to end injustice and poverty without Jesus, nor a place focused so much on how sinful everyone is that they have no compassion and equate people struggling with homosexuality to axe murderers. The Presbyterian Church (USA) and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America both come to mind. Also the UMC. Good luck in your search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatherwith4 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Or Catholic. :D :D Well... That option is always in the forefront of my mind as well. But I think she is looking for something a bit less liturgical. ;) That said anyone is welcome to join our inquiry social group or PM someone in the group.:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 -Women being allowed to do everything in the church men are, including being pastors. (This eliminates most of the churches near us.) -None of this "wives-only submission" stuff. Husbands and wives deciding things together. -No Calvinism -The service not just being a long sermon, but giving everyone a time to speak and encourage others, just as Paul wrote about everyone coming with a song, hymn, a teaching, etc. Few churches do this, so I realize we may have to settle for Sunday School for this part. -A church that is balanced and neither a basically non-religious social club fighting to end injustice and poverty without Jesus, nor a place focused so much on how sinful everyone is that they have no compassion and equate people struggling with homosexuality to axe murderers. Sounds Quakerish. Some Quakers are more "non-religious social club fighting to end injustice and poverty without Jesus" and some are not (like everyone else, they can vary). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 We have a Lutheran church right down the road. We've been there twice. I think we'll try it again. There is only one Friends' group in the area and it is probably too far away. I couldn't tell from their website if they are one of the groups that believes in Jesus's literal death and resurrection for our sins, or if they are one of the groups that is more New Age-y. I looked up our closest UMC. One of the books their book club will be discussing is a book about how a person can be both Muslim and Christian at the same time. Unless they plan to refute this book, it doesn't look like a good sign. Thanks for the support everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 We have a Lutheran church right down the road. We've been there twice. I think we'll try it again. There is only one Friends' group in the area and it is probably too far away. I couldn't tell from their website if they are one of the groups that believes in Jesus's literal death and resurrection for our sins, or if they are one of the groups that is more New Age-y. I looked up our closest UMC. One of the books their book club will be discussing is a book about how a person can be both Muslim and Christian at the same time. Unless they plan to refute this book, it doesn't look like a good sign. Thanks for the support everyone. Yeah, the UMC can vary between the old time Methodist and near Unitarian. There are some good people in the Methodist, but I don't regret leaving the UMC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 We have a Lutheran church right down the road. We've been there twice. I think we'll try it again. There is only one Friends' group in the area and it is probably too far away. I couldn't tell from their website if they are one of the groups that believes in Jesus's literal death and resurrection for our sins, or if they are one of the groups that is more New Age-y. I looked up our closest UMC. One of the books their book club will be discussing is a book about how a person can be both Muslim and Christian at the same time. Unless they plan to refute this book, it doesn't look like a good sign. Thanks for the support everyone. Keep in mind that Lutheran can be err on the side of very traditional, keeping a lot of the Catholic they broke away from. I'm pretty sure that would be the Missouri Synod group. No ordination of women. But just because women aren't ordained in that church does not mean they are oppressed or silent. It might be a good fit if you don't mind liturgical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terabith Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Where do you live? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 The Lutheran church near is is an ECLA one. I haven't figured out if women can hold all positions or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love_to_Read Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Nazarene, perhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 The Lutheran church near is is an ECLA one. I haven't figured out if women can hold all positions or not. ECLA - what we believe I think they are the ones who ordain women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Nazarene, perhaps? Nazarene's don't allow female pastors, last I knew? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 As far as the UMC goes, there is a booklist at a national level, which usually includes some which are definitely up for debate. My mother passes most of them on to me, and they've been some interesting reading. The UMC church that DD and I now attend, having gotten frustrated with the LCMS Lutheran one (I found it a great fit, DD was miserable because not only was she the only homeschooler in her age group, but the only kid who didn't attend the church's school) is going through THis book right now in the "young adult" Sunday School class, and it's definitely getting some hot discussion. We've also torn the UMC Social principles to shreds. It seems to do a good job of being an "old school" Methodist church in the service while also picking areas of mission and ministry to focus on (for this congregation, job search assistance and support for single parents). I've been using the copy of the Constitution I have on my Kindle App frequently. It's been a good fit for us. It doesn't have many children, but for DD that's turned out to be a good thing because it means that it's not age-stratified so she's able to work and discuss at her level, instead of being grouped with other kids who happen to be 7. She has a very old-school Church School teacher who is very into scripture memory and Sword drills, (without using the kindle app on an iPod :) ), which I think is good for her. One thing I've noticed around here-UMC churches that are in economically struggling neighborhoods seem to be more biblical, and ones that are in better off areas seem to be more social. That applies to my mother's community, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 The Lutheran church near is is an ECLA one. I haven't figured out if women can hold all positions or not. According to this wiki article: The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America ELCA is the largest Lutheran body in the USA. The church bodies that formed the ELCA in 1988 began ordaining women in 1970 when the Lutheran Church in America ordained the Rev Elizabeth Platz. The ordination of women is now non-controversial within the ELCA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melinda in VT Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Have you checked out a United Church of Christ denomination? It's a non-creedal denomination, so the flavor varies quite a bit from church to church, and there is often quite a bit of divergence in personal religious beliefs. I don't know if the church near you would meet your needs, but it might. I think my congregation would, based on what you've listed here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 -Women being allowed to do everything in the church men are, including being pastors. (This eliminates most of the churches near us.) -None of this "wives-only submission" stuff. Husbands and wives deciding things together. -No Calvinism -The service not just being a long sermon, but giving everyone a time to speak and encourage others, just as Paul wrote about everyone coming with a song, hymn, a teaching, etc. Few churches do this, so I realize we may have to settle for Sunday School for this part. -A church that is balanced and neither a basically non-religious social club fighting to end injustice and poverty without Jesus, nor a place focused so much on how sinful everyone is that they have no compassion and equate people struggling with homosexuality to axe murderers. Anglican Church? Like the Catholic Church, you won't find your number 4 fulfilled at the church service itself, but they do allow some women pastors. With the Catholic Church, number 4 is fulfilled through music ministry, prayer groups, Bible study, etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 dp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 Now I never would have thought of an Anglican church. It turns out there is one right down the road. I didn't know it was there, because they meet at a Spanish 7th Day Adventist church's building. Is Anglican very different then Episcopal? Do they do saints and all the Virgin Mary stuff like the Catholic church? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8circles Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Two other ideas would be a Covenant church or an Anglican church. We've been struggling to find a new church for a long while now, and I know how hard it is. :grouphug: :iagree: Evangelical Covenant would fit. Each Pastor/congregation can have a different level of liturgy but most - maybe all - I've been to would fit the sermon style you are looking for. Its a direct branch off the Lutheran church. I always enjoy my visits to the Anglican church. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teachin'Mine Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) Now I never would have thought of an Anglican church. It turns out there is one right down the road. I didn't know it was there, because they meet at a Spanish 7th Day Adventist church's building. Is Anglican very different then Episcopal? Do they do saints and all the Virgin Mary stuff like the Catholic church? I don't know really. I know someone here recently joined the Anglican Church, so maybe you could start a thread to get some answers. As far as pro-women, I can't imagine a stronger woman, or a better role model, than the Blessed Mother. She was chosen by God to raise Jesus. She, and a small group of women, stayed by His side when all the others, except John, fled in fear. She is the one who prayed with the Apostles and prepared them for the Pentecost. :001_smile: If the Anglicans are meeting in a Seventh Day Adventist church, there probably won't be any statues of Saints there. ;) Edited July 5, 2012 by Teachin'Mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Now I never would have thought of an Anglican church. It turns out there is one right down the road. I didn't know it was there, because they meet at a Spanish 7th Day Adventist church's building. Is Anglican very different then Episcopal? Do they do saints and all the Virgin Mary stuff like the Catholic church? Well, Episcopal churches are Anglican. Episcopal curches are also part of the Anglican Communion, which is a world-wide association of churches. In the US, if the parish is just Anglican, it is probably a group that broke away from the Episcopal Church for some reason. There is a lot of variation in Anglican parishes, so it is hard to say what you would find. If you know what group of Anglicans they belong to, that might be a clue. Some are very "low" in worship style much like you might see in a Lutheran parish, and some are "high" with lots of incense and bells, more like an Orthodox parish. A few are almost charismatic with a sort of "liturgical baptist" feel. Theologically you might find something very similar to Lutherans, you can find some Reformed types, and some that are very catholic in their theology. So they might put very little emphasis on saints or they might celebrate every festival on the liturgical calendar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2_girls_mommy Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Have you looked at a United Methodist Church yet? Women are definitely treated as equals there. This was my thought too. It is all I have ever attended, and have never experienced the kinds of things you are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschickie Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I hope the UM chuch by you has a strong congregation. We have a pretty good balance of older and younger families in our church. We had been heavily on the older side but have been working on attracting younger families. The theology sound right up your alley. If that congregation does not work for you I would check out a Free Methodist or a Nazarene chuch. They are also of the Weslyan branch of theology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kissy Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I am a UMC member and our church's Children's Ministry Coordinator. I have given the message several times and serve on our admin board. I am also big in safe sanctuaries which is the protection policy the church adapted to make sure that everyone working with kids in any capacity is background checked and has safety and abuse training. Not saying you won't run into bad things like that there because we do accept everyone but at least they will not be working with children and youth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuirkyKapers Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milovany Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) -Women being allowed to do everything in the church men are, including being pastors. (This eliminates most of the churches near us.) -None of this "wives-only submission" stuff. Husbands and wives deciding things together. -No Calvinism -The service not just being a long sermon, but giving everyone a time to speak and encourage others, just as Paul wrote about everyone coming with a song, hymn, a teaching, etc. Few churches do this, so I realize we may have to settle for Sunday School for this part. -A church that is balanced and neither a basically non-religious social club fighting to end injustice and poverty without Jesus, nor a place focused so much on how sinful everyone is that they have no compassion and equate people struggling with homosexuality to axe murderers. I made my previous post about the Orthodox church before this was posted. - We do have a male-only priesthood because Christ is a male and they are representative of Christ to us (our priests can be married, though, if that would make a difference), but overall (rather than in that specific instance), women are more valued than I've ever experienced before and it's seen much both in the approach we have to the Theotokos (mother of God, Mary) and in honoring the women saints throughout history. - Men and women are on equal footing in marriage -- we're all to love and respect each other and seek to serve and bless the other. - There's definitely no Calvinism! The parable of the Prodigal Son is key in this regard. - The sermon (homily) is a very small part of the Divine Liturgy. The main Sunday service has two focuses -- the Bible in the first part and the Eucharist in the second part. "Liturgy" means "the work of the people" so we're all involved, although perhaps not in the way most think of this. It's not spontaneous where anyone can say/do anything they want, there's an ordered service to follow. - The church itself, while involved in social issues, is all about worshiping God when we come to together for services. We're there to commune with Father, Son and Holy Spirit. As for the sins of others -- this has been a HUGE relief for us in Orthodoxy (I'm sure other churches are like this, too, I just never experienced it before now). Where someone is before the Lord is between that person, the priest (for the sacrament of confession/repentance) and God. Confession in Orthodoxy is very therapeutic -- our priest is there not just to witness our confession (we confess to God, not to him), but to counsel and guide us as well. It's a living relationship, not just something to do, if that makes sense. Anyway, back to the point -- we ALL sin and fall short of the glory of God, who are we to look at the sins and lifestyles of others? "Keep your eyes on your own plate." I love this. It's such a relief to not be thinking/worrying about what others are doing anymore. I trust the Church -- through its order and the sacraments -- to take care of that instead. I'm kinda gushy about Orthodoxy, I know, but only because of our experience in Eastern Christianity for the past 3-4 years. I'd be happy to help you find an Orthodox parish near you if you're interested. Feel free to PM me if so. Best to you on your journey! Edited July 5, 2012 by milovaný Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunnyDays Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I think visiting the ELCA Lutheran church again would be a good bet. We attend one, and it fits what you describe... we do have both men and women pastors (we have several pastors, it's a big church), and women are involved in everything. There's no patriarchal feel at all. There is a sermon, but there's worship/song time, time to greet others around you, and we usually have a meal before or after service that many people participate in to extend the community. Ours is more contemporary, so although it has a touch of liturgy, it feels much like the non-denominational churches I used to attend. There's a lot of variance in the ELCA, so the church you visit may not be exactly like mine. But we are really happy with ours, after searching a LONG time for a fit, and I think it would be worth a try for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobblygook Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Ditto the Evangelical Covenant Church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisbeth Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love_to_Read Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Nazarene's don't allow female pastors, last I knew? A quick google turned up someone's thesis about women's roles...didn't read the whole thing, but apparently, they've been ordained since 1908! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 -Women being allowed to do everything in the church men are, including being pastors. (This eliminates most of the churches near us.) -None of this "wives-only submission" stuff. Husbands and wives deciding things together. -No Calvinism -The service not just being a long sermon, but giving everyone a time to speak and encourage others, just as Paul wrote about everyone coming with a song, hymn, a teaching, etc. Few churches do this, so I realize we may have to settle for Sunday School for this part. -A church that is balanced and neither a basically non-religious social club fighting to end injustice and poverty without Jesus, nor a place focused so much on how sinful everyone is that they have no compassion and equate people struggling with homosexuality to axe murderers. Some Episcopal churches would fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 The Lutheran church near is is an ECLA one. I haven't figured out if women can hold all positions or not. Yes, they definitely can hold all positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Now I never would have thought of an Anglican church. It turns out there is one right down the road. I didn't know it was there, because they meet at a Spanish 7th Day Adventist church's building. Is Anglican very different then Episcopal? Do they do saints and all the Virgin Mary stuff like the Catholic church? In the US the Anglican church does NOT ordain women. The Episcopal Church does. Saints are mentioned in the Episcopal church (as in, most churches are named after them, they have stained glass windows depicting them, etc). Beliefs on Mary are varied....but generally you won't find groups doing the Rosary or whatever. In other words, there are some very Anglo-Catholic parishes that have people that are very into Marian devotion, but most are not. It isn't something that is mandated one way or the other in the church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 OH, as for the different people contributing, not just the Pastor, in both the Lutheran and Episcopal churches there are Lay readers, who read the gospel, and there are "prayers of the people" which are read together, then people can add on their own prayer requests, silently or out loud, as part of that prayer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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