Parker Martin Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Like most others here, I've been doing a lot of research on math education to help me make educational decisions for my children. Last night I was reading this and came to the realization that the math I loved in school is the real math, the sort of math you do if you if you pursue mathematics as a career. I was always led to believe that that was just fun and games, pure diversion. Would have been nice if an adult had told me that I could do that for a living. (I had plenty of adults tell me that I should go into math, but that was not enticing at all as math seemed to consist of figuring out how to do something and then doing the same thing 150 times. Tedium!) I'm sure many of you have had the same experience. Let's commiserate in our sorrow. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_go_gadget Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I had no idea that math is wonderful and amazing until I took a self-paced, self-taught algebra course in college. I eventually ended up switching majors and am now at the point in my undergrad studies when we finally start working with the abstract, which I much prefer to arithmetic (and even calculus is arthimetic with fancier equations). I can definitely relate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Me three. I didn't discover that math could be fun until I was in grad school living with two math majors :). I ended up getting a math ed teaching license. I suspect one reason why DD is driven to get to algebra is that she's heard (and DH, especially, enjoys showing her) bits and pieces of the "fun stuff" her entire life, and it always has the caveat that this is the kind of thing you can do when you have the tools, which means arithmetic, algebra, maybe calculus depending on the area, so she's trying to fill that toolbox as fast as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 My DD claims that she "hates" math but then pesters me with questions like "if there are 4th, 5th, etc. dimensions, are there negative dimensions?" We've got Flatterland by Ian Stewart heading to us via ILL because there's supposedly a great discussion of negative dimensions in it. I keep telling her that post-arithmetic math is a lot more fun, but she needs to be rock-solid on arithmetic before she can start it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas_mom Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Thanks for link. This was very enlightening for me :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 :bigear: FWIW, this was also discussed here: A lecture by Richard Rusczyk... where you will also find a link to the hour-long video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 There's also a good discussion on teaching math going on now at the hs2coll yahoo group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hs2coll/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I need more information. I always had the idea that mathematics COULD be wonderful...but never got past the drill and kill drudgery of it. Honestly....I know there are mathy people who can't see studying "all those dead guys, " or see the beauty of an abstract painting....(not all, just saying.....), yet they know there is a beauty there that maybe they haven't discovered yet. How does one go about finding these wonders of math....or show them to their kids when they are so far from finding them themselves.....sigh. This has been my frustration for years....my brain problem solves, just not in mathematical language. How do you find abstract mathematical ideas...when speaking the word " calculus" gives you hives.....serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) How does one go about finding these wonders of math....or show them to their kids when they are so far from finding them themselves.....sigh. This has been my frustration for years....my brain problem solves, just not in mathematical language. He's talking about two different aspects: (1) a different perspective on topics covered in the traditional scope and sequence (eta, challenging problem solving), and (2) topics not covered in the traditional scope and sequence. Have you ever looked at AoPS materials? Certainly that's not the only possible source, but that's the first, and easiest, place that I might look (there are threads about other math resources that might provide such a perspective). If you go back and read the transcript again, the main idea is that there's plenty of math not in the traditional textbooks, some of which can be experienced by participation in math contests. A lot of the AoPS exercises are problems taken from math contests. In addition, AoPS has books on topics that are outside of the traditional scope and sequence, e.g., Intro to Number Theory and Intro to Counting and Probability. He somewhat provides a roadmap for students. He cites numerous other resources, including the math contests. There are books available that contain math contest problems at various levels. In addition, AoPS has on-line courses specifically for contest prep, in addition to their other offerings. I have always liked math, but I ended up in a situation similar to his college classmate described in the transcript who had done very well in school, AP, SATs, etc., but then crashed and burned in math in college. I never really learned math - I was able to float through pretty well without doing so. I can't speak for all the books, but AoPS Prealgebra was a huge wakeup for me. Oh, to have had such an education, and what might have been :tongue_smilie: Edited June 25, 2012 by wapiti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serendipitous journey Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I need more information. I always had the idea that mathematics COULD be wonderful...but never got past the drill and kill drudgery of it. ... How do you find abstract mathematical ideas...when speaking the word " calculus" gives you hives.....serious. okay, this is something I almost never share on the boards b/c it is a seriously flawed resource (could have used a fact-checker, flagrantly socialist in its philosophy) but it got me onto some of what I love about math: Mathematics for the Million. I prefer the original edition, from the 20's I think, but it can be hard to get hold of (I found it in a university library). You could try reading through it as a first pass. I will say that most things meant to show how amazing math is leave me cold, and I really really like math. My other favorite book on this is Strogatz' Nonlinear Dynamics. If you can find at a library and skim the readable, non-mathy bits he might help show why math can be so amazing. I will say that I haven't finished this book, since I was working through it in an informal seminar during grad school and had to drop it for my research. His Sync is [slightly?] more accessible -- I don't think it relies so heavily on math to read it, the first book is meant to be worked through -- but I haven't read it. now :leaving: Please don't slam me if you hate Math for the Million!!! ETA: the Teaching Company has a course on the beauty of mathematics. I didn't like it myself, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyfaithe Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 :D Thanks for the suggestions....I appreciate them:D...even the ones you don't like:D I, however, just don't get it. It seems to me that I have to become a mathemetician in order to even figure out what math is....:tongue_smilie: I feel like there is some club ....and boy does that club make me feel like a dummo!! Math seems like one of those things that you either "get" or "don't get." Me, I wanna get it....but, I just no capice....:confused: okay, this is something I almost never share on the boards b/c it is a seriously flawed resource (could have used a fact-checker, flagrantly socialist in its philosophy) but it got me onto some of what I love about math: Mathematics for the Million. I prefer the original edition, from the 20's I think, but it can be hard to get hold of (I found it in a university library). You could try reading through it as a first pass. I will say that most things meant to show how amazing math is leave me cold, and I really really like math. My other favorite book on this is Strogatz' Nonlinear Dynamics. If you can find at a library and skim the readable, non-mathy bits he might help show why math can be so amazing. I will say that I haven't finished this book, since I was working through it in an informal seminar during grad school and had to drop it for my research. His Sync is [slightly?] more accessible -- I don't think it relies so heavily on math to read it, the first book is meant to be worked through -- but I haven't read it. now :leaving: Please don't slam me if you hate Math for the Million!!! ETA: the Teaching Company has a course on the beauty of mathematics. I didn't like it myself, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Me, I wanna get it....but, I just no capice....:confused: If it makes you feel any better, I thought I got math. But, I really never saw it from this perspective, not the kind you're wondering about here, not until my dd went through AoPS Prealgebra. After ch 2 and 3, I began to see the light, or at least a smitch of it. When we got to the later chapters, I even discovered that I actually like geometry, a lot! This was a surprise. Maybe one day I'll re-learn middle and high school math with these materials, for fun, in my spare time :tongue_smilie:. Maybe try playing around with Alcumus (which is free) and see where that gets you. It's not the same as working through the lesson problems, though - the genius of the instruction lies, in part, in the specific sequence of the lesson problems. The understanding and perspective that you seek are going to involve mental effort, but if you're up for it, perhaps it's worth a try. Or, try AoPS Prealgebra ch 1-3. The videos are helpful too, but watching isn't the same as doing. Eta, how do you feel about puzzles? Logic, math or other? Edited June 25, 2012 by wapiti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 okay, this is something I almost never share on the boards b/c it is a seriously flawed resource (could have used a fact-checker, flagrantly socialist in its philosophy) but it got me onto some of what I love about math: Mathematics for the Million. I prefer the original edition, from the 20's I think, but it can be hard to get hold of (I found it in a university library). You could try reading through it as a first pass. ... now :leaving: Please don't slam me if you hate Math for the Million!!! your link is to a different book, I think you mean this one http://www.amazon.com/Mathematics-Million-Master-Magic-Numbers/dp/039331071X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1340662710&sr=1-1&keywords=Mathematics+for+the+million Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewellsmommy Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Discovering fractal geometry changed my views on math. I have a whole different appreciation for it now. I am hoping to inspire and empower my children in the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker Martin Posted June 26, 2012 Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 Mommyfaithe, proofs in geometry. Trig. I love that stuff and would have gone into it if I'd known real math would mean exploring those things and not applying the same solution to a neverending series of problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Smith Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 :bigear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mombygrace Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 This is a great thread ?. Any other ideas for interesting math aside from AOPs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Marilyn Burns and Theoni Pappas? Nrich problems Math olympiad type stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravi B Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 You might enjoy the following series of 15 columns by Professor Steven Strogatz that appeared in the NY Times: http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/series/steven_strogatz_on_the_elements_of_math/index.html Strogatz has a book coming out in October based on these columns and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) This is a great thread . Any other ideas for interesting math aside from AOPs? There are some problem-solving resources in this thread (I decided to edit out the list here so as not to clutter up this thread too much) Also: Creative Problem Solving Math Olympiad Contest Problems for Elementary and Middle Schools, Vol. 1 Math Olympiad Contest Problems Volume 2 Alcumus Zaccaro books Hands-On Equations Verbal Problems Book Kitchen Table Math book 3? Martin Gardner books Murderous Maths books Marylin Burns books Edited June 26, 2012 by wapiti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) . Edited June 26, 2012 by wapiti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 You might enjoy the following series of 15 columns by Professor Steven Strogatz that appeared in the NY Times:http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/series/steven_strogatz_on_the_elements_of_math/index.html Strogatz has a book coming out in October based on these columns and more. Thanks for the link, Ravi B! There are some problem-solving resources in this thread (I decided to edit out the list here so as not to clutter up this thread too much) I was the OP of that thread and was going to link it here. Thanks for doing so wapiti. For anyone who wants to love math and wants to start from the prealgebra stage, you could try (in addition to using the AopS PreAlgebra book by Ravi B et. al.) the Living Math recommendations for yourself. Julie has compiled some amazing lists on her livingmath.net site! Then search for posts here by math-loving members like Kathy in Richmond and mathwonk. Play with math...do some origami, look up cool stuff like patterns in Pascal's triangle, create latin squares, play with magic squares. I loved the logic puzzles in Einstein's Riddle. Read The Man Who Counted! Not everyone wants to start with trig or even algebra so the above are some cool and simple ways to appreciate the beauty of math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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