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Latin 1 and Greek 1 simultaneously?


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My rising 9th grader is registered for Latin 1 online with Visual Latin - we started the DVD course in 8th grade and got through about 10 lessons... she liked it, and did well, but it was always the last thing to get done so we dropped it halfway through the year. That was the main reasoning behind the online course for 9th - it will force us to keep up and not let it fall by the wayside.

 

She really, really wants to take Greek. This is a kid who wants to study classics/archaeology in college, so I think it's a good idea in theory. She's also taking the Mythology Alpha/Beta online with Lukeion. She would HAVE to take Greek online because I cannot facilitate Greek - it hurts my brain.

 

Her schedule would look like this:

 

Mythology online w/Lukeion for LA credit: approx 1 hr/day & meet 1 hr/week

MUS Geometry - 45 min/day

Oak Meadow US History - 1 hr/day

Oak Meadow Biology - 1 hr/day

Latin 1 online w/Visual Latin 1 hr/day and meet 1 hr/week

Greek 1 online w/Memoria or VP 1 1/2 hours 2x week (leaning toward VP Scholars)

She swims 5 days a week - either early mornings or late evenings

 

We're doing NO co-ops, no other outside activities, and we've dropped music lessons as of this summer so I do feel like her schedule will open up a bit. Is this too much for a motivated but middle-of-the-road student?

 

Is taking Latin 1 and Greek 1 concurrently a recipe for disaster? Or is this something a lot of people do? I'm stumped.

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It will depend on the student. We did it a few years ago, and it was doable, but hard. Right now we are on a Greek break, and I hope to get back to it (at Lukeion also!) in a year or two. That said, if Greek suits her goals better, I would let her do the Greek and drop the Latin. Latin is easier to pick up on your own, or with less help, than Greek. And once you've done one inflected language, another is easier to understand.

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If she really, really wants to take Greek, that's where I'd focus. It's a big deal to learn a new language -- so much memory work, including strange endings for declensions and conjugations! (Obvious, yes, but it's surprising to me when I'm in the middle of learning one myself!) Greek grammar is very similar to Latin's, but I think that Greek verbs are more strange. I agree with Tammy that Latin would be easier to pick up later on her own, especially with the understanding of an inflected language's grammar.

 

One option would be to try Greek only this year and then evaluate whether it would be a good idea to try Greek 2 and Latin 1 next year -- after the experience with Greek, you could determine whether it would work to have two language classes in her schedule. (It's so easy to fall behind in a language class.)

 

Another option is to go with Greek I and add Latin I at half-pace (junior high pace). Maybe First Form would be a good option for lighter Latin? I think 4 years in the "Form" series covers all Latin grammar. I wouldn't normally recommend the "Form" series for high school, but it could be a good option along side Greek at full pace.

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Thank you both! She definitely is more interested in Greek than Latin, but is definitely willing to do Latin if I want her to. I'm having a hard time finding a Greek 2 that will follow Greek 1... Lukeion is the only one I'm seeing, and I haven't read stellar reviews of their language courses. I only want to switch her over to Greek if she can get her 2 consecutive language credits out of it.

 

What have other people done for higher levels of Greek?

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Thank you both! She definitely is more interested in Greek than Latin, but is definitely willing to do Latin if I want her to. I'm having a hard time finding a Greek 2 that will follow Greek 1... Lukeion is the only one I'm seeing, and I haven't read stellar reviews of their language courses. I only want to switch her over to Greek if she can get her 2 consecutive language credits out of it.

 

What have other people done for higher levels of Greek?

 

We've used Lukeion and we like it. It is rigorous, though, and under no circumstances would I start even a gifted child with them doing Greek 1 and Latin 1 at the same time. I am interested to hear what you've heard about them, though. I know that enough of the students liked it well enough last year that I had a hard time getting my son a spot in Latin 2 because it sold out in February, even though the semester wasn't over until May.

 

We used Hey Andrew when he was young as an introduction to Greek. Probably too young for your daughter, though I would recommend the Greek alphabet book and song. Makes learning the alphabet super-easy, and she could do it before she starts her course (whatever that will be). We then switched to Elementary Greek. The level 1 was ok. Level 2 got to be too hard on top of our Latin studies, so we ended up dropping it. My feeling now is that for all but the super-motivated Greek is just too hard to do without some sort of outside help.

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We juggled both Latin and Greek for awhile. First we dropped textbook science. Then we dropped the Latin. Greek is hard work.

 

It's getting harder and harder to find and use the resources we used, and I see nothing currently being produced that I like.

 

I have no advice other than a typical college prep curriculum plus Lain and Greek is a human rights violation in my opinion :-)

 

Human Right #24 Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

 

Seriously, some of the Asian countries that people like to emulate are actually now being accused of violating human right #24.

 

When children in the past were learning Latina and Greek, they were not studying the other topics that modern day students are typically expected to study.

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Thank you both! She definitely is more interested in Greek than Latin, but is definitely willing to do Latin if I want her to. I'm having a hard time finding a Greek 2 that will follow Greek 1... Lukeion is the only one I'm seeing, and I haven't read stellar reviews of their language courses. I only want to switch her over to Greek if she can get her 2 consecutive language credits out of it.

 

What have other people done for higher levels of Greek?

 

My son took Lukeion Greek 1 last year and loved it. Very rigorous, thorough, etc. The only issue we had is with the teacher being behind on the grading, though when you submit your answers you can see the suggested answers immediately so you can get some feedback. But it is still hard to figure out exactly what the grade would be, how many points would be taken off for small differences, etc. but we will still do Greek 2 in the fall and are overall happy with the course. Just if you don't want to rule it out completely.

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If she really, really wants to take Greek, that's where I'd focus. It's a big deal to learn a new language -- so much memory work, including strange endings for declensions and conjugations! (Obvious, yes, but it's surprising to me when I'm in the middle of learning one myself!) Greek grammar is very similar to Latin's, but I think that Greek verbs are more strange. I agree with Tammy that Latin would be easier to pick up later on her own, especially with the understanding of an inflected language's grammar.

 

One option would be to try Greek only this year and then evaluate whether it would be a good idea to try Greek 2 and Latin 1 next year -- after the experience with Greek, you could determine whether it would work to have two language classes in her schedule. (It's so easy to fall behind in a language class.)

:iagree:

Interest in a language makes a BIG difference in success. My dyslexic/ADD DS is really passionate about Greek, and that passion is what got him through Greek 1 last year. It was really hard for him, especially in the beginning when he felt like he was drowning in endless lists of conjugations and declensions, but his love for the language got him through the course with straight As (Greek 1 with Lukeion, using Athenaze). He's going to add Latin next year, but I don't think he would have been nearly as successful had he started with Latin.

 

We absolutely love Lukeion, and I think Regan Barr is a truly gifted teacher. As Allearia mentioned, they do get behind in grading, but most sections of the homework and quizzes are self-grading, the homework is just graded as credit/noncredit, and you can see pretty easily see what your score would be on the quizzes, because Quia provides all the correct answers as soon as you submit it. IOW, while you may not know whether your score is a 94 or a 95, you'll know it was probably an A. Lukeion offers Greek 1 through 4, and my son plans to stick with it through 4th level.

 

Jackie

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Greek 1 online w/Memoria or VP 1 1/2 hours 2x week (leaning toward VP Scholars)

I believe VP teaches Biblical Greek (koine), not classical Greek (Attic). If your DD plans to study Classics in college, she should take Attic. I'm not sure what Memoria's program is, they say it teaches "fundamental grammar concepts common to both classical and Biblical Greek," but I can't find any samples of the text (First Form Greek). If you're interested in Scholars Online, which does teach Attic, I would ask what text they use (it's not Athenaze).

 

Jackie

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When children in the past were learning Latina and Greek, they were not studying the other topics that modern day students are typically expected to study.

 

:iagree: We were studying both Latin and Greek and had to drop one as the kids got older so that we'd have room for science and other college-prep classes.

Edited by profmom
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Human Right #24 Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

 

Seriously, some of the Asian countries that people like to emulate are actually now being accused of violating human right #24.

 

:rolleyes: I hate stuff like that. Makes a joke of REAL human rights issues.

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But if your daughter is really interested in Greek, I'd say go for that. Winston Churchill said, "I would make them all learn English: and then I would let the clever ones learn Latin as an honour, and Greek as a treat." My older daughter goes on about how much she likes Greek, the history and the literature. I wouldn't suggest doing both Greek and Latin in the first year, because there's a learning curve for your first language.

 

I have two daughters who took Latin and Greek from Scholars Online under Dr. Bruce McMenomy. One is studying the Classics right now at Oxford University in England. She took four years of Latin and three of Greek, and liked the latter more. My youngest daughter was accepted into UNC Chapel Hill for next year, and she took six years of Latin and five of Greek. They both loved the processes and teachers at Scholars Online: Classical Christian Education for the College-Bound Student . I highly recommend them and the students they attract.

 

But since we are all different, have you thought about emailing and talking directly with the teachers of the various online courses you are looking into? They will probably be the best people to answer your question.

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:rolleyes: I hate stuff like that. Makes a joke of REAL human rights issues.

 

It is a REAL human rights violation to coerce children into doing something so damaging to them that it causes a statistically significant number of them to choose suicide.

 

Anything than increases the death rate is REAL. Healthy humans don't kill themselves. These children are not killing themselves over NOTHING. They are being ABUSED. I'm not sure if you are aware of the curriculum and afterschooling programs being inflicted on a growing number of Asian students, but it IS a human rights violation.

 

I don't post here often, and usually stick to the k-8 board. Anyone that knows me from over there knows how annoying I am about my incessant talk about human rights.

 

I try to keep things light and add my winks and smily faces, but it's no joke when a parent FORCES or FRIGHTENS a child into completing an overly rigorous curriculum that interferes with proper mental and physical health and normal child development. Human Right #24 is a human right for a reason! It's important. Not only is it vital for quality of life, but sometimes it's vital for a person's survival.

 

I pushed myself too hard as a teen trying to pull myself up out of a bad situation. I remember the despair that I and some of my classmates were feeling midway through AP chemistry, while also trying to work full time jobs. I was the first one to start pulling back. The teacher took me aside and admonished me, telling me that I was infecting the others and was going to be responsible for everyone giving up. We could pull back and we did. The suicidal urges passed for everyone by just reducing our goals to a C-. We were just kids. Poor kids. Ambitious kids. Hard working kids. Good kids. But we were just kids, not machines.

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It is a REAL human rights violation to coerce children into doing something so damaging to them that it causes a statistically significant number of them to choose suicide.

 

Anything than increases the death rate is REAL. Healthy humans don't kill themselves. These children are not killing themselves over NOTHING. They are being ABUSED. I'm not sure if you are aware of the curriculum and afterschooling programs being inflicted on a growing number of Asian students, but it IS a human rights violation.

 

I don't post here often, and usually stick to the k-8 board. Anyone that knows me from over there knows how annoying I am about my incessant talk about human rights.

 

I try to keep things light and add my winks and smily faces, but it's no joke when a parent FORCES or FRIGHTENS a child into completing an overly rigorous curriculum that interferes with proper mental and physical health and normal child development. Human Right #24 is a human right for a reason! It's important. Not only is it vital for quality of life, but sometimes it's vital for a person's survival.

 

I pushed myself too hard as a teen trying to pull myself up out of a bad situation. I remember the despair that I and some of my classmates were feeling midway through AP chemistry, while also trying to work full time jobs. I was the first one to start pulling back. The teacher took me aside and admonished me, telling me that I was infecting the others and was going to be responsible for everyone giving up. We could pull back and we did. The suicidal urges passed for everyone by just reducing our goals to a C-. We were just kids. Poor kids. Ambitious kids. Hard working kids. Good kids. But we were just kids, not machines.

 

Wow, I am so offended by your post I don't even know what to say.

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My rising 9th grader is registered for Latin 1 online with Visual Latin - we started the DVD course in 8th grade and got through about 10 lessons... she liked it, and did well, but it was always the last thing to get done so we dropped it halfway through the year. That was the main reasoning behind the online course for 9th - it will force us to keep up and not let it fall by the wayside.

 

She really, really wants to take Greek. This is a kid who wants to study classics/archaeology in college, so I think it's a good idea in theory. She's also taking the Mythology Alpha/Beta online with Lukeion. She would HAVE to take Greek online because I cannot facilitate Greek - it hurts my brain.

 

Her schedule would look like this:

 

Mythology online w/Lukeion for LA credit: approx 1 hr/day & meet 1 hr/week

MUS Geometry - 45 min/day

Oak Meadow US History - 1 hr/day

Oak Meadow Biology - 1 hr/day

Latin 1 online w/Visual Latin 1 hr/day and meet 1 hr/week

Greek 1 online w/Memoria or VP 1 1/2 hours 2x week (leaning toward VP Scholars)

She swims 5 days a week - either early mornings or late evenings

 

We're doing NO co-ops, no other outside activities, and we've dropped music lessons as of this summer so I do feel like her schedule will open up a bit. Is this too much for a motivated but middle-of-the-road student?

 

Is taking Latin 1 and Greek 1 concurrently a recipe for disaster? Or is this something a lot of people do? I'm stumped.

 

I think that schedule looks just fine. My son did something similar in 9th grade, only he had no outside classes. We did everything at home.

 

Pre-calculus: 1 hour

Latin 2 (Henle): 1 hour

Greek 1 (Athenaze): 1 hour

English/Logic: 30-60 minutes

Great Books: 2 hours

Geology: 1 hour

Piano: 1 hour

Drama: 4 hours per week

 

He did have a few years of Latin before beginning Greek, and he did Elementary Greek in middle school before beginning Athenaze. That definitely gave him an easier time of it! If she really wants to take on both languages at once, you might try doing the Greek (her real interest) in an online class, and doing Latin at home with a program that lends itself to independent study (Henle or Wheelock's); that way she could take as long as she needed to complete the assignments. It could take some of the pressure off. (And we've learned that studying languages in the mornings right after math is a good way to make sure they don't get dropped off the schedule.)

 

Anyway, high school students can and do learn Latin and Greek together! And no, their human rights are not being violated. :glare:

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  • 10 months later...

Hey Paris, I'd love to know how this past year worked for you. My son is crazy about Greek, has the alphabet, pronunciation and several words down pat and is chomping at the bit to learn more but I want him to continue the Latin. First Form seems pretty easy for a 13yo and since he's already had 2 years of Latin and 1 year of Greek, I think he can handle a more rigorous Greek if that's what he wants. But I just searched and found your thread, read through all the comments and then wondered how it worked for you. Thanks!

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