Dory Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I think I would have some questions about your judgement as a parent if you were having your children admire real life naked people, with the goal being appreciation. (other than if they were older and taking a formal human form drawing course) I know that is not quite what you are saying though. My point is that your answer to my argument does not quite fit. I am talking about appreciating the naked body and not the just the airbrushed versions of today. ;) You are talking about appreciating beauty in general. Nah, I like to have a good discussion. And I have walked a path of conflicting extremes. I remember reading Watchman Nee in a discipleship class and my youth pastor asking my what I thought about the fact that he said all artwork was "wordly" and therefore bad. He was asking me this, because my parents are artists. At that point in my life I agreed with Nee. I now realize that was very reactionary and narrow minded. It put God in an itty bitty box. :D I do the argument does fit to some extent. Why are we focusing on seeing the beauty in the naked human form to such an extent and not broadening the view to beauty in everything. Why such a focus on nudity? And if it's about appreciating the beauty of the human form then why is it wrong to admire real life naked people? (that statement was definitely just for arguments sake, lol. I think there are many ways to learn to appreciate the human body). If it's to appreciate the art itself, then that brings me back to why nude art. I'm glad you seem to be enjoying the discussion, I certainly am. Watchman Nee has some interesting points, but I would agree in that he does tend to put God in a box sometimes. I think we all struggle with that here and there in our lives. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Then she is limited in her capabilities and education. As such, she would not be able to be hired for certain works that are necessary and beneficial to society. Not a cut, just a fact. I also have cousins that are artists. One does not do nudes either. I'm sure she's studied them, even lightly, but it's most likely not her strength. I know several iconographers. One does work other than iconography. He regularly posts sketches he's working on to strengthen his skills and talent. Some are nudes. I've yet to see one that he's put out there with a full frontal or any such like that. Much of it is in technical skill, playing with form and variables, and trying to capture emotion through body language (and usually not passion or lust). I understand the being mom part. My role as a mother is also to teach critical thinking skills, to teach them to discern context, to teach them to not intentionally go looking for offense, etc. I suppose that if she never intended to ever deal with nudes (which I don't believe she does), because she didn't agree with them, than yes, she was limiting her education in a way, but not really as she never intended to have that education. Either way, I find her art fascinating. I was just trying to say that sometimes it is not necessary to study nudes even when you are an art student, although that normally would be expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I do the argument does fit to some extent. Why are we focusing on seeing the beauty in the naked human form to such an extent and not broadening the view to beauty in everything. Why such a focus on nudity? I am not understanding. :confused: We are focusing on it, because that is what the discussion is about. Do I emphasize nude works over other great works...No. They make up a small portion of our art studies. My point is they do have a very valuable and unreplacable place in art study. Nude art has a very unique role in developing the appreciation of the human body in various forms. Yes, I am talking about a human figure without clothes. Sometimes it is awe of the artists ability, a stirring or connection to the subject of a painting, or a healing of individuals own self image. Again, these are simply my thoughts off the cuff, someone else could probably do a far better job of fleshing out the positive attributes of this particular form of art study. And if it's about appreciating the beauty of the human form then why is it wrong to admire real life naked people? Actually, I think this is a gray area. If there is a way to study IRL naked bodies without it being overtly sexualized, then I do not have a huge problem with it. I am thinking of art courses, certain painted figures I have seen in stage productions (but again that has already gone into the realm of art) and the Bodies exhibits. The main point is that someone IRL walking around in the buff, does not equal art, but you were equating appreciating different people to a real life situation with your children. Not to be reduntdant, but it is not the same thing. (that statement was definitely just for arguments sake, lol. I think there are many ways to learn to appreciate the human body). If it's to appreciate the art itself, then that brings me back to why nude art. I think (and I could be wrong) that we are swinging between extremes in this discussion. So for clarities sake. There are many different forms of art to appreciate. One does not have to appreciate nude art to appreciate all art. Nude art does though have a very intimate and unique place that can only be filled by nude art itself ( I have explained it's unique role in previous posts). I hope that makes sense. :D I'm glad you seem to be enjoying the discussion, I certainly am. Watchman Nee has some interesting points, but I would agree in that he does tend to put God in a box sometimes. I think we all struggle with that here and there in our lives. :001_smile: Answers above. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMom2One Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I have to say that as a Christian directly involved in the arts, I think this discussion is great! I'm reading your posts and am enjoying the exchange so much. I've been so blessed to read about how several of you view art - and not just the ones that contain nudity. Blessings, Lucinda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) I have to say that as a Christian directly involved in the arts, I think this discussion is great! I'm reading your posts and am enjoying the exchange so much. I've been so blessed to read about how several of you view art - and not just the ones that contain nudity. Blessings, Lucinda I wish you would join the discussion! This is not something I am polished in at all. I am coming it at from the perspective of: 1. an artist. 2. a Christian who has been through both extremes (having an issue with anything art related and having no issue with anything nude, even sexualized) 3. a parent-teacher and 4. appreciation for my own soul's sake :D. The one thing I lack is a formal education in art history and its effects on the person. I will insert a little story here. Dh and I met at a very conservative Bible University. We were already on staff at a church at the time of our wedding and the reception was going to be at my parents house in the N. Arizona Mountains. This was a house filled with art masterpieces, from a Picasso sketch to modern originals (paintings, sculptures, furniture). There were lots of nudes including a series of casts from my own mothers body. I regret to say that I was so mortified I went through the house and took down all the nudes or what I thought of as inappropriate. I was terrified at how dh's conservative family would take it. I spent the next 10 years denying a huge part of who I am. That was a very sad and dark time for me. Thankfully, that foundation of love and appreciation for art was still in place. I hope to provide my children with a balanced, healthy, non-shaming view of all art, as I am sure most of the people here want for their children. Edited June 25, 2012 by Juniper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I am not sure if this should be a spin off, but I would really like to know what others think the study of art and specifically the study of nude art accomplish. What is the unique role of nude art? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I am not sure if this should be a spin off, but I would really like to know what others think the study of art and specifically the study of nude art accomplish. What is the unique role of nude art? Go back and read my posts ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Go back and read my posts ;) I did...and loved them! I really had not connected the study of anatomy with nude art, but it makes complete sense. I think there is much more to it though. My perspective is limited to what I knew coming in to this discussion and what I have gleaned from a few of the posters. There has to be more though! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I am not sure if this should be a spin off, but I would really like to know what others think the study of art and specifically the study of nude art accomplish. What is the unique role of nude art? Well, I can see its role in being able to render people. Even if you paint/draw clothed people you need to know how the body fills in those clothes! But if you are a landscape artist, then I would wonder myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Well, I can see its role in being able to render people. Even if you paint/draw clothed people you need to know how the body fills in those clothes! But if you are a landscape artist, then I would wonder myself.She's not known primarily for landscapes, but I'd bet some of Georgia O'Keefe's (non-nudes) work would make a few people here blush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 She's not known primarily for landscapes, but I'd bet some of Georgia O'Keefe's (non-nudes) work would make a few people here blush. But if you're thinking of her paintings of things like Calla lilies, those "sensuous" forms can be seen just by studying other parts of nature, other than strictly the nude human form. (BTW - just playing Devil's advocate here. I've drawn from live models - some clothed and some not. I don't have a problem with it but I do think some of the assertions that say that you can't do any worthy art without studying nudes is a bit of an overstatement. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 She's not known primarily for landscapes, but I'd bet some of Georgia O'Keefe's (non-nudes) work would make a few people here blush. My mother had some interesting theories about O'Keefe's work. ;) That was actually who she had me study in some of my early drawing and painting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 It doesn't bother me and I've never avoided it or tried covering it up... ..unlike, say, these homeschoolers: Naked Statue of Greek God Horrifies California Homeschoolers I used to live in Buffalo which has a life size copy of David. About half the time he was wearing a garbage bag diaper. Very snazzy. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 HA! :lol: We love the art museum especially the photography gallery. Our museum is good about noting if there's more aggressive nud1ty (don't know what else to call it) With some photography it gets uncomfortable in mixed company so if there's a note, I usually scout ahead and certain works get a glance instead of the full study, kwim? One recent work was found photos of women. Very interesting but a lot of the oldest photos (found at estate sales etc) were...um...:blushing: I once went to see Macbeth in a very small underground theater. At the entrance there was a sign that said that stated that the play contained, "brief, passive nudity". I loved the sign and I don't much have a problem with nudity so in we went. It was a theater in the round: circular stage in one corner of the room and then seats in an arc around the stage going to the walls where the stage started. The seats were only about four rows deep. My hubby and I sat in the second row. I could have reached out and touched some of the nudity if I was so disposed. The witches were naked, the gate keeper exposed himself as if urinating, Mabeth spent an entire scene on the stage in the buff and Lady Macbeth was also McBuff a fair few times. I have often wondered what the sign would have said if there had been more nudity than that. I have seen many Shakespeare plays by the way and I have to say that that one was the most memorable one. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 It is probably worth pointing out that in ancient times some societies actually did put clothes on their statues of gods and goddesses. The form was supposed to be exactly that-their actual form. Anyone offended by nudity should definitely not go to Italy, especially Pompeii. :iagree: Yes, I have some pictures from Pompeii that are quite interesting. Although if the statues were supposed to be their actual form, then 1st of all I have to say that they thought very highly of their gods and 2nd of all have I really have to question all the mating that was supposed to be going on between humans and gods. There was a serious dimorphism issues that would have had to be overcome. One of the statues I saw would have been a perfect ad for Trojan brand cond@ms. He was sporting one of these on a member that was as large my arm from elbow to hand IYKWIM. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Yes, I have some pictures from Pompeii that are quite interesting. Although if the statues were supposed to be their actual form, then 1st of all I have to say that they thought very highly of their gods and 2nd of all have I really have to question all the mating that was supposed to be going on between humans and gods. There was a serious dimorphism issues that would have had to be overcome. One of the statues I saw would have been a perfect ad for Trojan brand cond@ms. He was sporting one of these on a member that was as large my arm from elbow to hand IYKWIM. ;) Just looked it up...basically the Kama Sutra is displayed throughout.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juniper Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Yes, I have some pictures from Pompeii that are quite interesting. Although if the statues were supposed to be their actual form, then 1st of all I have to say that they thought very highly of their gods and 2nd of all have I really have to question all the mating that was supposed to be going on between humans and gods. There was a serious dimorphism issues that would have had to be overcome. One of the statues I saw would have been a perfect ad for Trojan brand cond@ms. He was sporting one of these on a member that was as large my arm from elbow to hand IYKWIM. ;) We toured Pompeii as a student group from our Bible College. Ummmm, that was interesting!!!! I think my professors about died. Lets just say our tour guide was not conservative Christian. :lol: .....and we went into that very room! We were told that was where they brought the.....ummmmm.....young ladies of the evening, so they would know exactly what they were there for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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