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What is so wrong with an "Old Fashion Education"?


mom2agang
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When I mention to people I teach my children like a One room school house and give them an "Old Fashioned Education" I get frowned upon.My kids can do math with out a calculator, write a report without a computer etc. I'm not against them just "If they can land man on the moon without a calculator , Then my kids can do basic math without it." If I teach my children to write a report, it won't take a rocket sciencist to type it out.

 

I get a lot of "Your kids won't be prepared for the modern world." Everything in life now uses calculators and computers.They need to be able to use them. ( They know how. Just not for all their school work.) Or if I use an older book Like Ray's arithmetic "It's out of date." Even though 4+4 is still 8.

 

What's so wrong teaching kids to use that thing between their ears?:glare:

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Honestly, don't discuss it with anyone. My older kids never used calculators or computers except for games or sometimes research. My oldest didn't even know how to turn one on, yet she is a Graphic Designer and works exclusively on computers:D

 

Everyone is a critic....and if you don't want their criticism, don't provide any ammo.

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When I mention to people I teach my children like a One room school house and give them an "Old Fashioned Education" I get frowned upon.My kids can do math with out a calculator, write a report without a computer etc. I'm not against them just "If they can land man on the moon without a calculator , Then my kids can do basic math without it." If I teach my children to write a report, it won't take a rocket scientist to type it out.

 

I get a lot of "Your kids won't be prepared for the modern world." Everything in life now uses calculators and computers.They need to be able to use them. ( They know how. Just not for all their school work.) Or if I use an older book Like Ray's arithmetic "It's out of date." Even though 4+4 is still 8.

 

What's so wrong teaching kids to use that thing between their ears?:glare:

:iagree:

 

My kids do writing and math without a computer too. I add numbers in my head for one thing or another almost daily, and I think it is a great skill to have. I also walk around with my calendar in my head that hangs on my kitchen wall (faster than looking it up when someone asks me if I am available). My kids do use the computer for their foreign language with Rosetta Stone; but I think it is a super way to do that subject at their ages; especially since I am not fluent in a second language. At some point I will have them learn to type, and given how much they already know about the computer having grown up around it I think they will be more than set for the modern world. After all my generation had to learn the computer on our own, and we did.

Edited by gratitude
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Honestly, don't discuss it with anyone.

 

..............

 

 

Everyone is a critic....and if you don't want their criticism, don't provide any ammo.

 

:iagree: really, you are setting yourself up for debate by even discussing these things. of course people are going to question your success because it's contrary to the very different choices they are making for their own family. ykwim?

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Whenever people tell you your kids won't be like everyone else, just think about the David Letterman segment where he asks people on the street simple questions about the world. You'll feel better instantly. "Normal" isn't something worth striving for.

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Well, we don't use a calculator in our elementary math program, but when the day comes I want my child to master the use of a graphing calculator. And this morning my son played a a super interesting iPad game that teaches algebra "by stealth."

 

To my mind the problem of "old fashioned" math education is not about the inclusion or exclusion of technological devices, it is that most "traditional" approaches emphasize procedural methods and tend to do a poor job of developing mathematical reasoning, deep understanding of mathematical laws and how to use them in creative problem solving, mental math skills, and critical thinking. I do not think 19th Century math education is adequate for life in the 21st Century.

 

Then if we want to talk about the "values" one finds in many old history books aimed at children we'd have to confront the nasty brew of racism, sexism, and bigotry in many of these works.

 

Sorry, but I'm not one that has a rosy view of "old-fashioned" education.

 

Bill

Edited by Spy Car
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I get a lot of "Your kids won't be prepared for the modern world." Everything in life now uses calculators and computers.They need to be able to use them. ( They know how. Just not for all their school work.) Or if I use an older book Like Ray's arithmetic "It's out of date." Even though 4+4 is still 8.

 

What's so wrong teaching kids to use that thing between their ears?:glare:

 

Absolutely nothing is wrong with restricting use of technology during school time especially for young children.

 

With older children I would suggest learning how to use a graphing calculator, because they are now used in college math classes- even basic college algebra. No instruction is given. It is just expected that a student can use one. So that your kids can jump into college math without also having to learn how to use a graphic calculator, I would be sure they were comfortable with one.

 

I would also make sure that high schoolers could use a keyboard with a degree of speed and accuracy. Again, this is because college classes are unlikely to allow hand written papers.

 

YMMV but I wouldn't want to place my kids in a position where they are needing to learn basic technology alongside their college intro classes. The first year of college can be enough of a transition without having to worry about acquiring basic tech skills.

 

 

Everyone is a critic....and if you don't want their criticism, don't provide any ammo.

:iagree: This is very true. :) You know your kids best. Anything I say reflects observations of my children and our situations. It may not be at all applicable to yours.

 

HTH-

Mandy

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I'm learning the hard way to not talk curriculum with people other than hs friends. As excited as I may be it just causes unwanted criticism.

 

:iagree: Some people are looking for ways to discredit your homeschooling so I wouldn't discuss it with them.

 

I also do not use a lot of technology during school because my boys get plenty of technology time outside of school. I do limit screen time but they don't live in a bubble. Even my baby recognizes the iPhone swipe and we don't own an iPhone.

 

I will teach them to use a graphic calculator and appropriate computer programs (or will we just skip those and work with apps) in time. They love playing with my graphic calculator right now but it usually involves trying to see how a number they can get on the screen.

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And this morning my son played a a super interesting iPad game that teaches algebra "by stealth."

 

 

Bill

 

Ok I realize this is OT but could you share what APP this is?

 

To the OP I do value elements of an old fashioned education particularly when it comes to reading classic literature. At the same time I feel fortunate that we live in an age where educational opportunities abound due to innovations in technology - from the Internet to iPad/iPod pass which help us explore the world and practice our math facts in an engaging way.

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Sounds cool! What is it, and about what grade(s) would you say? thanks!

 

It is called "DragonBox." Moira (nmoira) discovered this app (that also runs on Android devices, iPhones/iPods, and (I think) some computer platforms.

 

It is a really cool way to "play" and learn about algebra at the same time.

 

The age range is pretty broad, I'd think. My son is almost 8 (the suggested minimum age, but others report younger) and I think it would be good for any Prealgebra aged student.

 

The game is very "graded." It starts out simply, and slowly becomes more complex. There are minimal instructions and most all the learning is via "discovery." We only got this a couple days ago, and have not reach the end., but I already see it working the logical thinking skills that algebra takes. I like it.

 

Bill

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OP, I'm with you. There's nothing wrong with "old fashioned". Teach the dc how to use their brains first, and the technology can come later. I agree with another poster that it wouldn't be wise to wait until college to teach calculator and computer skills, but it doesn't hurt to wait until middle school or high school. I never used a calculator for math class until high school, and the teacher taught us how to use it for graphing. That's not something that needed to be taught ahead of time; it's not like it's that hard to learn. Same thing with computers; dc pick up this stuff amazingly fast. And by the time they get to college, the techology would have changed anyway. I am letting my elementary dc learn how to type, because they want to. They did some typing for science projects this year. But for everything else, they are using old fashioned pencil and paper! We'll add in some more computer skills sometime in middle school, just so they have some familiarity.

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We only got this a couple days ago, and have not reach the end., but I already see it working the logical thinking skills that algebra takes. I like it.
Some of the more advanced rules of the game won't have an obvious mathematical parallel for younger children. My 7yo doesn't know fractional notation (e.g. 1/2) because her math program uses words at her level (e.g. "What are four fifths of 20?"); so, while she understands the cancelling and distributive rules wrt denominators in the game, it's meaningless to her otherwise. However, she sussed out that the spirals were zeros, even before the app changed them into zeros, and "night" and "day" tiles are "like positive and negative numbers," all without prompting.

 

The app doesn't mention the word "algebra" until the very end. She's proud to say that she has "Mastered Basic Algebra," and the seed has been planted that algebra is fun. :D

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When I mention to people I teach my children like a One room school house and give them an "Old Fashioned Education" I get frowned upon.
The phrase means different things to different people; could that be part of the problem? My kids do copywork, don't have access to calculators until advanced maths (with certain rare exceptions), etc. I characterize it as "making sure they have a strong grounding in the fundamentals" and "have a chance to develop an intuitive feel for ______."
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These are some rules I learned in Post Trauma therapy that I now apply to education.

 

 

  • I have the right to be "wrong" and do it anyway.

     

  • I don't have to explain myself.

     

  • I have the right to change my mind.

 

 

I've learned that the world is far more abundant that I was taught. Survival of the fittest and extreme scarcity of resources was one of the primary explanations for my abuse. And while the world isn't THAT scarce, things ARE limited. ALL educations use planned priority setting, or end out having the laws of scarcity apply themselves helter-skelter.

 

Your choices of planned priorities are different than the planned priorites or helter-skelter methods of others. Don't discuss them with others without ears to hear. There is no need to proselytize or defend yourself.

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The phrase means different things to different people; could that be part of the problem? My kids do copywork, don't have access to calculators until advanced maths (with certain rare exceptions), etc. I characterize it as "making sure they have a strong grounding in the fundamentals" and "have a chance to develop an intuitive feel for ______."

 

This is such an excellent point. Perhaps choosing different phrasing would help.

 

In addition, to the OP I'll say from personal experience that many people can't imagine how a mom with 12 kids can do a decent job educating her own children all by herself. It's simply outside their realm of experience. Then when you hit them with a phrase that has a different connotation to them than it does to you, they are likely to get even more concerned.

Edited by Luann in ID
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Or if I use an older book Like Ray's arithmetic "It's out of date." Even though 4+4 is still 8.

 

A great book that shows how our understanding of arithmetic has changed since the publication of Ray's is "Logicomix," a graphic biography of Bertrand Russell. Of course four apples added to another four apples makes eight, still, then, always, but the way we talk about it and think about it has changed with new discoveries of mathematical principles.

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These are some rules I learned in Post Trauma therapy that I now apply to education.

 

  • I have the right to be "wrong" and do it anyway.

     

  • I don't have to explain myself.

     

  • I have the right to change my mind.

 

 

AWESOME. JUST AWESOME. I could apply this to many different areas of life.

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The phrase means different things to different people; could that be part of the problem? My kids do copywork, don't have access to calculators until advanced maths (with certain rare exceptions), etc. I characterize it as "making sure they have a strong grounding in the fundamentals" and "have a chance to develop an intuitive feel for ______."

 

:iagree: change your wording.

 

I'm a huge fan of technology. It's just in the last year that we've utilized anything beyond a calculator and a typing program. Ds owns a lot of his own technology, it's his hobby (extra curricular - whatever) but even he prefers a real book to anything electronic for learning.

 

Technology is a tool, it's not evil. It can be both good and bad. People may view your wording of "old-fashioned" as a slam against technology. It could be making them unnecessarily defensive.

 

Proper wording is everything. I've learned to say certain things when people bring up homeschooling. For instance if they tell me they couldn't ever homeschool, I shrug and say it's not for everyone. Sometimes I think it's really good you don't homeschool because you'd just mess it up and be the bad example the public school sees, but I don't say that. ;)

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I have a very hard time believing anyone really cares what math book you use with your kids, but I do think the phrasing is a turn off. Say you're teaching them to be mental acrobats, not that you're old fashioned. It sounds too grumpy and unambomberish.

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Originally Posted by Hunter

These are some rules I learned in Post Trauma therapy that I now apply to education.

I have the right to be "wrong" and do it anyway.

I don't have to explain myself.

I have the right to change my mind.[/Quote]

 

AWESOME. JUST AWESOME. I could apply this to many different areas of life.

 

It does apply to all area of life. Learning about boundaries is wonderfully liberating, for people who never knew how to set any.

 

The second part that I learned about handling an interrogation and setting boundaries is that questions are an offensive move and answering them is a defensive move. Some people fire questions at you as a way to gain power. Every time you answer, you are just giving them more ammunition to fire another question with. They are the ones in control, and you are reacting to them.

 

As soon as you ask a question, instead of answering one of theirs, you regain the power. Sometimes the only question that works is "Why are you asking me that?" or ruder but more effective, "What makes you think you have the right to ask me that?"

 

If people are interrogating you on your homeschooling methods, stop answering their questions and start asking your own.

 

If you trying to convert them, instead give them the same right to do it "wrong" as you have been given.

Edited by Hunter
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Sometimes it's the emotion behind the words someone expresses that I respond to (or try NOT to respond to.) Two people could say the same thing, "We tend toward an old-fashioned style education." One person could say it with love, enthusiasm and excitement about how they teach their children and another person could say it in such a tone that implies a loathing for any other kind of education.

 

If a person has a strong dislike/loathing/fear/distrust of school education, it wafts across like perfume of skunk. It's unmistakeable.

 

I generally think that people are polite when they encounter someone who truly loves and enjoys their work. But a good number of folks are going to put up an argument if there's an implication that what-ever-kind-of-schooling is superior.

 

I don't know if it is totally good advice to avoid talking about passions in home educating. My favorite thing about this forum is hearing different perspectives presented with enthusiasm (and a generous dollop of tolerance). But I think it takes practice and thoughtfulness to do so.

 

Although it does take two to tango, how we share methods of homeschooling can make the difference between turning people off, starting an argument, or creating a dialog.

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Some say it to make them feel better about their kids using all those as a crutch or to make life easier for mom. I learned the "old-fashioned way". No calculator, no typing, no computer and I still learned how to do all those things quite simply.

 

It's an idiotic mindset.

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